Trigger job vs. reliability

[10-Ring]

I've seen a few guns that have had sweet triggers & okay reliability. I've also seen managable triggers that have been absolute work horses w/ 100% reliability w/ all varieties of ammo. Where do you draw the line between having your optimum trigger & ideal reliability?
Me, I'll live with some imperfection in my SD guns. My competition/range guns, I'll have that trigger fine tuned for optimal performance knowing that reliablity may not be apart of that package.

[mete]

The first question a gunsmith should ask a customer is -what will the gun be used for. A SD gun must be totally reliable. Remember that smooth is more important than light.

[firestar]

Are you talking about reliability of the trigger or of the gun jamming? Can a trigger job make a gun unreliable?

[Blueduck]

Trigger job can (and often should) be nothing more than taking the highest rough spots off a few engagement surfaces. This does nothing whatsoever to hurt reliability, and may even help it in regard to certain malfunctions.

Now when you get messing with springs..problems can occur:uhoh:

[Standing Wolf]

There's no reason on earth an action can't be both very light and completely reliable.

[nemesis]

I can't make the connection between a trigger job and reliability. Did I miss something?

[JohnKSa]

I think he's talking about putting in lighter springs and overtravel screws.

Lighter hammer springs can cause misfires if you go too light.

Lighter trigger springs can cause some odd problems and may cause the trigger to stick in the back position when the gun gets dirty.

Overtravel screws can back out and become no travel screws.

[nemesis]

JohnKSA said...........
Lighter hammer springs can cause misfires if you go too light

Don't I know that one! Too often folks put in light hammer springs and don't test the gun thoroughly only to find out when the fit hits the shan that the gun won't pop primers reliably.

[DontShootMe]

Just to see how 'light' I could get it - Well it was light allright, but the trade-off was that the trigger didnt re-set forward enough to allow the trigger safety to function properly.

I promptly went back to the original firing pin spring.

[Tamara]

I was unaware the two were mutually exclusive... :confused:

All my carry 1911's have crisp, moderately light pulls, and all my CCW revolvers have smooth, light DA pulls (but not so as to compromise reliable primer ignition).

[Skunkabilly]

A Beretta and Ernest Langdon. Have your bulgogi and eat it, too.

[only1asterisk]

This depends on the design of the gun and the gunsmith. As long as don't change how hard the primer gets hit you should be ok.
Eample- Take a look at a k,l,or n frame S&W with the grips off. There is a small srcew on the front stap that tensions the long spring. You can reduce the tension by losening it. Losen it a little and you will feel the difference in trigger pull, losen it more and the firing pin may not strike the primer with enough force to ignight it.
You must have this scew tight or it may losen under recoil, causing failure to fire!
If you shorten this screw, the effect is permanent. This is the fast and dirty way to do a "trigger job" on a revolver. Don't let a gunsmith do this to you.

The gunsmith should polish the contact sufaces to reduce friction, but that is about it. You can change springs on most guns yourself. Be advised, most mainsprings/hammer/striker springs have a built in safety margin, when you change to a lighter springs, you intrude on that safety margin.


Dave

[bountyhunter]

"I can't make the connection between a trigger job and reliability. Did I miss something?"

If we are talking 1911's, ther is a definite tradeoff. To get the light "crisp" break you have to put a secondary (relief) cut on the sear that makes the sear contact surface a lot smaller. Smaller surface = wears away faster. Also, you usually need a lighter hammer spring to get a lighter trigger = greater chance of misfire. The light triggers generally require cutting the primary sear angle a little closer to flat = greater chance of hammer follow which means the gun doesn't fire the second pull.

In general, any mods beyond polishing of critical surfaces to smooth/lighten trigger pull comes with some kind of liability of reduced reliability.

[bountyhunter]

"There's no reason on earth an action can't be both very light and completely reliable."

I don't know of any gun for which that is true. It is true nearly any gun can have the action smoothed by proper polishing. That will make it feel a lot lighter. There is no downside to this. As for actually lightening the action, there is always some risk with doing it. I have done it to every gun I own except my carry gun, and I know it too well: a stiff primer and a loud "click". For comp guns it's no big deal, for a carry gun I would never lighten the action.

[bountyhunter]

"Me, I'll live with some imperfection in my SD guns. My competition/range guns, I'll have that trigger fine tuned for optimal performance knowing that reliablity may not be apart of that package."

Exactly. You can have the carry gun polished up and it will give it a smoother feel with no creep. No reduction in reliabilty, improves shootability.

[9mmepiphany]

i've never considered them mutually exclusive either. all my carry guns have tuned triggers...except my hk P7... and have been 100% reliable or i wouldn't be carrying them.

the usual trade off is between accuracy and reliability. not mutually exclusive but they do have a greater impact on each other...except my hk P7 :p

[HankB]

Polishing things up will make the trigger smoother and lighter, without any detrimental effect on reliability whatsover.

UNLESS you carry the process too far. For example, classic S&W revolvers had case-hardened internals. Remove enough metal during honing to get through the case hardening, and you're setting the stage for rapid wear of the softer metal the case hardening was supposed to protect.

FWIW, I do not use reduced-power springs ANYWHERE in my pistols.

[TaxPhd]

My IPSC open gun has a 24 oz. trigger pull. No problems in over 30,000 rounds.

Two carry guns (1911's) are at 3 and 4 lbs. with over 50,000 rounds between them. Never any problem.

While there are worked over triggers that fail, IPSC and IDPA competitions also have LOTS of guns with very light trigger pulls that are completely reliable in many thousands of rounds. More rounds than most carry guns will ever shoot.

The key is having a comprtent smith perform the work. Some can do it, some can't.

Light, crisp, and reliable is definately doable.

[Blueduck]

Can a trigger job make a gun unreliable? There's no reason on earth an action can't be both very light and completely reliable.
I was unaware the two were mutually exclusive...

Think part of the confusion here is this posting being in the "General" section. Us revolver folks are thinking a very light double action pull means light strikes (been there done that). 1911 guys are wondering how a light trigger pull could cause a jam....

Different types of guns, different systems.

[twoblink]

It's when you muck with the springs, you have serious reliability problems..

A few target pistols I know, are very sweet shooters, (1911 gold Cups) but aren't great for carry due to reliability issues. Also, they are pretty finicky about what they digest as well.

[nemesis]

Skunk said..........
Have your bulgogi and eat it, too.
You can bring the kimchee. Just make sure its nice, fresh summer kimchee. Dang, that makes me hungry.

[Jim Keenan]

"I'll live with some imperfection in my SD guns".

Maybe I don't understand, but I always thought that you died with imperfections in a defense gun.

Jim