What are these people refering to? (Magnums)


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boredelmo
May 9, 2007, 09:45 PM
I'm 19 and have plenty of firearms and i believe i have most of the basics down regarding firearms.

I frequent the shooting and range have taught plenty of new shooters.

So onto what im asking. I was taking a girl shooting and her boyfriend dropped her off at my place. When he found out i was taking her to the shooting range he proceeded to brag that his uncle had a gun. Not wanting to be disrespectful or anything i inquired as to what make and model it was.

Me: Who what kinda gun is it?
Him: It's a magnum.
Me: Oh like a .357? its a revolver?
Him: No, it's a Magnum.

We'll i just disregarded his comment and went about my business. I didn't think much of it.

Then a friend of mine told me that her brother took her to the shooting range that day and some guy had a really loud gun. She asked her brother what kind it was and he said it was a "magnum".

And i have a trade pending for a desert eagle right now, and i showed another girl what i was going to let her shoot this coming summer she says "Oh thats a magnum!".


So i mean, its Magnum now slang for a desert eagle? Is it short term for a .357? Is there some new video game out there that labels a gun just as Magnum that i dont know about?

I mean this is similiar to the bullet and clip problem but at least i know what a new shooter is refering to.

thanks in advance

-Elmer

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Jimmie
May 9, 2007, 09:50 PM
Magnum Research makes Desert Eagles... and Baby Eagles and BFR and Mountain Eagles and MagnumLites. Maybe that's it.

sadhvacman
May 9, 2007, 09:50 PM
magnum just means large caliber. your friends answer to your question was probably because he didn't know the caliber.

esmith
May 9, 2007, 09:51 PM
I had a similar situation where my friend (who is an idiot when it comes to knowing anything about guns) said he was going to get a gun.

Him: Hey i think im getting a gun.
Me: What kind?
Him: A .308
Me: What kind of rifle?
Him: A .308
Me: Thats the caliber now what make of a rifle?
Him: A .308

another okie
May 9, 2007, 09:53 PM
Many men have trouble admitting they don't know everything about firearms, so they just make stuff up.

Nomad, 2nd
May 9, 2007, 09:59 PM
It is slang used by gun-morons and is not specific to any single type.

Technosavant
May 9, 2007, 10:05 PM
"Magnum" in its classic firearms sense, was used to designate loadings that were more powerful than the usual. As firearms makers began labelling certain cartridges "magnum" they tweaked the cases so you couldn't fire them in guns that couldn't handle them (.357 magnum is a lengthened .38spl, ditto the .44 mag and special).

To one who is ignorant (not a perjorative, but honestly knows nothing) about firearms, I suppose it just means any large and intimidating gun.

mnrivrat
May 9, 2007, 10:13 PM
There are several cartridges that are called magnum as part of their identification.

.32 H&R Magnum
.22 Magnum
.357 Magnum
.44 Magnum

Are some examples. Each has it's own distinct discription and characteristics, so using magnum as a generic term does nothing to discribe the specific nature of a gun or it's cartridge.

RH822
May 9, 2007, 10:20 PM
Years ago a very excited buddy calls me up and tells me, he just bought a MAGNUM. So I jumped in the truck and headed to his place. When I get there he whips out his MAGNUM...a Ruger Super Single Six .22 magnum. I called him a less than polite name as he was LHAO saying , DUDE you should of seen the look on your face. But, it was a magnum!

RH

sadhvacman
May 9, 2007, 10:23 PM
That's something that has always confused me. when calibers are labeled as magnums with no non-magnum in the same caliber. for example the .375 h&h magnum is also just called a .375 and its the same load or gun,and then there are other large loads like a .444 or a .454 and they aren't called magnums.

savetheclaypigeons
May 9, 2007, 10:23 PM
Is someone talking behind my back?
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4859/magnumpiferrarixo1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
anywhoo...like my new Dodge Magnum?

Threeband
May 9, 2007, 10:57 PM
http://www.champagne-cellar.co.uk/Resources/magnumgroup.jpeg

rockstar.esq
May 9, 2007, 11:08 PM
Magnums were loosely defined as greater than 2800 fps in rifles. In handguns it's less specific. The negative press from morons is why few police agencies issue anything with that moniker.

44AMP
May 10, 2007, 01:12 AM
As the picture shows, the term "magnum" originally referred to a larger than standard bottle of champagne.

When Holland & Holland introduced their .375 and .300 cartridges, they used the word "magnum" as a marketing tool, as their cases were larger than standard sizes. Larger cases holding more powder meant higher velocity, and the term became fixed in the language in 1935 when S&W introduced their .357 Magnum.

So, today, any case larger (longer/wider) than usual is called magnum, if the maker wants to. Usually they do, because it sells.

People who don't know guns seldom use gun terms correctly. Just look at what ignorant people call an "assault weapon".

M92FS
May 10, 2007, 01:17 AM
quote by sadhvacman : magnum just means large caliber. your friends answer to your question was probably because he didn't know the caliber.

+1 :)

CypherNinja
May 10, 2007, 01:43 AM
Most simply put, "Magnum" is a marketing term most often used when a maker introduces a caliber which is a more powerful version of some other caliber.

Examples:
38 Special ---> 357 Magnum
44 Special ---> 44 Magnum
45 ACP---> 45 Winchester Magnum
22 LR ---> 22 Magnum
etc....etc....

It can also be used to designate high pressure cartridges or whatever else some marketing department feels like. "Special" and "Express" used to get used the same way. It's all just marketing, and in 50 years it'll probably be some other term.

unspellable
May 10, 2007, 08:24 AM
The term "magnum" originally meant a cartridge case that was larger than standard for the caliber and type. Over the years the ad copywriters mangled the term until today it is essentially meaningless.

Case in point: The 458 Winchester magnum

It has a case SMALLER than standard for the caliber and type. It's a miniaturized version of the type in order to get it through a standard length action.

Waywatcher
May 10, 2007, 08:32 AM
There's a lot of ignorance out there.

A friend at work said his dad has "an M14, an M16, a Dragunov, and an AK47"

My reply was "Your dad must be rich, you could sell them all and buy a nice house!"

Naturally upon further questioning it became apparent that:
A.) He didn't know what he was talking about, and
B.) the guns in question were an M1A, an AR15, an SKS and a WASR respectively.

Nikdfish
May 10, 2007, 09:05 AM
My largest magnum:
http://www.skhowell.com/images/big_mag.jpg

Nick

El Tejon
May 10, 2007, 09:08 AM
Smile and nod, smile and nod.:)

As long as the newbie is not pointing the gun at you, smile and nod.:D

Creeping Incrementalism
May 10, 2007, 10:18 AM
What cracks me up are the Dodge ads where they drool, "It's a Hemi!" The added power doesn't seem to me to be worth the hype.

By the way--Latin lesson--magnum comes from the latin magnus. I pulled the Dictionary.com definition below. Someone should tell them that Holland and Holland used the term before Smith and Wesson.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/magnum

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
mag·num /ˈmægnəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mag-nuhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a large wine bottle having a capacity of two ordinary bottles or 1.5 liters (1.6 quarts).
2. a magnum cartridge or firearm.
–adjective 3. (of a cartridge) equipped with a larger charge than other cartridges of the same size.
4. (of a firearm) using such a cartridge.
5. Informal. unusually great in power or size: a magnum spotlight; a magnum dosage.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1780–90; < L, neut. of magnus large; in reference to firearms, orig. used as a trademark by the Smith and Wesson Co.]

Jorg Nysgerrig
May 10, 2007, 11:02 AM
I had a theory that due to your age and the age of the people responding that it probably has a video game origin. Perhaps a game where they show a Desert Eagle model but refer to it as a "magnum" as though that is the name of the gun.

It appears at least one game does that:
http://www.capcom-central.com/ResidentEvil/reda.php?page=weapons

Unfortunately, many people base their knowledge of firearms entirely off video games. Even worse, they aren't shy about sharing said knowledge.

Geronimo45
May 10, 2007, 11:08 AM
Magnum = .88 Uber-Magnum repeating full-auto revolver from Korth. The most powerful handgun in the world - capable of blowing the turret off a tank with FMJ.

TX1911fan
May 10, 2007, 11:14 AM
From what the OP said, I think Jimmie hit it on the head. When the girl saw a picture of the Desert Eagle and said "that's a Magnum" she was probably referring to the fact that Magnum Research made it. Kind of like people referring to Kimbers instead of to 1911A1 in .45 caliber MADE by Kimber. Most non-gun people don't realize that many manufacturers make guns in different calibers, and so don't understand when we want to distinguish between caliber, model and manufacturer.

A good way to explain it to them is to tell them you have a V8 automobile, and then to ask them if that told them the make and model of your car. Just giving one piece of information is not adequate, you have to tell them it is a V8 Ford Mustang for them to really know what you drive. Guns are the same.

Outlaw Man
May 10, 2007, 11:34 AM
Magnum?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/rht08408/hornady_03.jpg

roscoe
May 10, 2007, 12:45 PM
What cracks me up are the Dodge ads where they drool, "It's a Hemi!" The added power doesn't seem to me to be worth the hype.
Besides, it is not even really a hemi.

Morlock
May 10, 2007, 01:15 PM
to be fair, one of the S&W k-frames (mebbe the model 19?) was designated as the "combat magnum"

akodo
May 10, 2007, 03:06 PM
The term magnum originally was applied to large than average bottles of wine.

When H&H used the term magnum on .375 magnum, but there was no 'regular' you really have to look at the history of the british guns just prior to that. Many of the british guns, especially those made by the fancy gunmakers, were for use against large game in africa. Many of the loadings were originally in blackpowder, but were switching to the new 'nitro' powder, sometimes using the same exact cartridge, just labeling it 'nitro for black' or later 'nitro express' One example was the 450/400, the blackpowder load had 110 grains of black, nitro-for-black used 45 grains of cordite, while the nitro-express used 60.

To make matters more confusing, often times there were two types, rimmed and rimlessbelted for bolt and doubleguns. Frequently rather than calling a hot load for a bolt nitroexpress they called them magnums. An example of this is the 400/350 rigby, which had a similar spread of loadings as the 45-/400 listed above, which morphed into the 350 number 2, which was identical to the 400/350 nitro express type loads, but with thicker case walls, #2, the 2nd, was a rimmed for double guns, the rimless was for bolt, they started calling the bolt version 350 rigby magnum

So this was all in play when H&H introduced it's 375 H&H magnum, even though it had no exact predicessior, it was basically stating it was up with the 'new kids' not the old black power era type loads simply converted to smokeless.



Now onto those people you were talking about. Magnum doesn't necessarily mean 'large caliber' (because hey, 357 magnum is a smaller caliber, i.e. uses a smaller diameter bullet, than say 44 henry, but sure packs more wallup!)

I also don't think those who call a gun 'magnum' have any idea that the desert eagle was produced by 'magnum research' (besides didn't magnum research first jsut import them, then buy the rights and started to make them?)

To those who don't know, 'magnum' just means 'big gun' and to some, they don't even realize they are ignorant, they think that is all there is to it, there are guns, and then there are 'magnums' which is the type of gun where when you shoot em in the movies, they go flying back, and then there are shotguns, which are different, but they have no idea how, except they use shot somehow.

This is why you get videogames and tv shows and movies where a 'magnum' revolver is as powerful as a 12 guage shotgun

Steve N
May 10, 2007, 03:50 PM
Who cares? What I want to know is why this other guy let you take his girlfriend shooting? Is she going to end up being your girlfriend?

rockstar.esq
May 10, 2007, 07:36 PM
Sometimes it's a fine line between insisting someone get it right and becoming a drag. I'm often mildly irritated when magazines are called "clips" by the media. When I point out to onlookers that asking a surgeon for a "needle" that surgeon will likely ask what kind of suture you want to go with it! Syringes are what you use for injections, needles are for stitching. I understand that most folks referring to a Ghetto strewn with "needles" aren't referring to a Crips sewing circle that got out of hand! Desert Eagle is by no means the consummate source for magnums, their entire "baby" line are standard fare. If you were to pick a company that better filled the bill I'd have to say John Rigby and sons for rifles and Freedom Arms for handguns.

boredelmo
May 10, 2007, 09:50 PM
Who cares? What I want to know is why this other guy let you take his girlfriend shooting? Is she going to end up being your girlfriend?

I could answer this question very unhighroadly, insulting your personal state of social affairs but i wont.

You've never had a friend that was a girl and she got a boyfriend later down the road?

sadhvacman
May 10, 2007, 10:04 PM
easy now elmo

Werewolf
May 11, 2007, 12:25 PM
Their own stupidity...

glen walker
May 11, 2007, 06:09 PM
Maybe this will help to give you some insight. It's something that most of you already know better than I, but it will be food for thought for some people who will read this sooner or later. Understand, I am getting on up in years now, (still get around just fine, thank you very much) and with the exception of a few years in the Marines, and a few years in Alaska, I know very little about modern guns as a whole. Although I have hunted all of my life (hell, I even got permission from my CO on Okinawa and signed out for 5 live 7.62 rounds so that me and 'my' M-14 could go wild pig hunting. 'Javelina' or some such name. I'vd always been into blackpowder since my Grandpaw started me squirrel hunting when I was 12 years old with an old .32 caliber rifle he had. Of course after I grew up I moved into powder substitutes because there's a lot less hassle all the way around....Anyway, I asked the Marine Corps one time about magnums. (We were firing a few 'get used to it' rounds with the M-16 which the Marines had just picked up on)Naturally, the Marines being the Marines, we had to learn every thing there was to know about it. The compatable civilian round for the M-16 is the Remington .223..Muzzle velocity rounded off to 3250 feet per second. BUT, I found out that they have (or did have at that time; I guess they still make it) a 'varmit' rifle chambered for.222 (that's .222 as opposed to .223) Magnum. It had a very heavy barrel, a very fast moving projectile, and was extremely accurate over a string of many many shots, due to the heavy, thick barrel. I asked my Plt. Commander how come the Marines didn't adopt the .222 instead of the .223. (5.56mm) He told me there were two reasons, neither one being more important than the other. One reason was: The life expectancy on a magnum barrel was too short. A magnum barrel will lose a very large percentage of it's accuracy (in other words it will wear out) in one point some odd seconds. Less than two seconds. That mean's that when enough rounds have traveled through the barrel to equal just under 2 seconds, that barrel, for all good accuracy purposes, has been 'shot out'. (the heat and the pressure).. The other reason is because the round is traveling at such a high velocity that even striking a leaf growing on a bush is enough to deflect the round. Hell, I'vd seen that problem with the M-16 myself. Also, the M-16 round can strike a man and if it dosen't hit a bone or what have you, the round will pass completely through him, and he'll just stand there and look at you for a few seconds. (long enough to do you great damage, believe me) THAT is where you start getting into foot pounds of energy, kinetic foot pounds, (Your knock down power) your rate of drop (for instance: the 7.62mm (civilian counterpart WCF .308 'Winchester Centerfire') fired from the Modification 14 (M-14, muzzle velocity 2800 feet per second with a chamber pressure of 50,000 lbs per square inch) has a rate of drop of one inch per one hundred yards) and what have you. For instance, the 9mm will give you better penetration, but the big and heavy .45 used for so many years by the US Military, while only moving at a little over 700 feet per second, has tremendous knock down power as compared to the current issue 9mm. That is what make's blackpowder handguns such formidable and powerful weapons. (and they are plenty powerful, just take my word for it) With a full powder charge behind that heavy round ball made out of soft lead, the knock down power and the smashing power are tremendous, especially when you consider that when it leave's that muzzle it's scooting along at about 900 feet per second, give or take a little. (military handguns are always 'down powered'. The revolver .45, commonly and mistakenly referred to as 'the.45 long colt' is loaded much more powerfully than the US Military M1911A1)...Respectfully...

PrimaryB
May 11, 2007, 06:45 PM
I'll buy all the above but I'm still trying to figure out the Winchester Short Mag series? Traded my Browning 300 ABolt if I remember correctly it was called. Seems to me Short and Mag don't belong in the same title.:neener:

PB

sadhvacman
May 11, 2007, 06:50 PM
wsm's overall have a flatter trajectory and disprove the long taught and accepted theory that long actions are essential for pinpoint accuracy. They also are smaller lighter rifles with far less recoil and actually more power than their same caliber counterparts. The next rifle I buy will be the 325wsm. I've read some impressive things about it.

sadhvacman
May 11, 2007, 07:00 PM
But why would you trade away an A-bolt? Awesome, awesome gun. Hold their value well. Was it wood or synthetic?

PrimaryB
May 11, 2007, 07:45 PM
It was wood. I'm a traditional guy. I know.:banghead: Traded it to a family member for building supplies. Had a Leupold gold ring scope. Objective lens was 50mm. He's taken yearly trips to Canada, takes our kids to Canada hunting and fishing and he is very much into hunting. I was very much into remodeling the house at the time.:uhoh: I knew about the release of the 325wsm at the time so fear not. We all talk about the one that got away. Well it saddens me but everyone got what they wanted. Besides I tell the Mrs' about it all the time.:D

KINGMAX
May 11, 2007, 07:50 PM
Dodge Magnum, or a Magnum of champange ?????????

Aguila Blanca
May 11, 2007, 07:50 PM
So i mean, its Magnum now slang for a desert eagle? Is it short term for a .357? Is there some new video game out there that labels a gun just as Magnum that i dont know about?
It's a "two-two."

My Ruger Single Six convertible came with two cylinders. One shoots .22LR and the other shoots .22 WMR (a.k.a. Winchester MAGNUM Rimfire).

When I have the second cylinder installed, it's a "Magnum"


[Personal aside to Glen Walker: Paragraphs are your friend]

Axman
May 11, 2007, 10:53 PM
Which brings us to one of my favorite movie scenes...

Lasky (Guard at Walleyworld): That's not a real gun, is it Clark?
Clark Griswold: Are you kidding? This is a Magnum P.I.
Lasky: It's a BB gun!
Clark: Don't tempt me. I could poke an eye out with this thing.
Lasky: You couldn't even break the skin with that thing.

The Unknown User
May 11, 2007, 11:09 PM
It is slang used by gun-morons and is not specific to any single type.There's a difference between being stupid and just not understand the jargon associated with a given topic.

"Magnum" is often used to refer to any "big, bad gun" by people who don't know much about guns. Many FPS (first-person shooter) video games often have a pistol, or even a sniper rifle of some kind that's referred to as a "Magnum" and it's always a very powerful weapon.

.cheese.
May 11, 2007, 11:30 PM
no.... they're not referring to Magnum Research.

Lots of people just seem to think that there is only one "magnum", they don't realize what it means. So it could be any of a number of things, but it's probably a .357 or .44 ninety-some-odd-percent of the time. People just say "magnum" because they don't know any better.

fast eddie
May 13, 2007, 11:23 PM
If you see the word "magnum" stamped on the barrel then it's a magnum. If not, it's not. Caliber will vary. Sheesh!

sadhvacman
May 14, 2007, 09:40 PM
well said eddie, time to close this one.

Cosmoline
May 14, 2007, 09:53 PM
Many men have trouble admitting they don't know everything about firearms, so they just make stuff up.

Sig worthy.

entropy
May 14, 2007, 10:22 PM
I thought the term for Desert Eagles was 'deagles' , not "magnums". :eek: :p

akodo
May 14, 2007, 10:37 PM
wsm's overall have a flatter trajectory and disprove the long taught and accepted theory that long actions are essential for pinpoint accuracy. They also are smaller lighter rifles with far less recoil and actually more power than their same caliber counterparts. The next rifle I buy will be the 325wsm. I've read some impressive things about it.

Actually, conventional wisdom is the opposite, it says that short actions ARE more accurate, that is why a lot of benchresters are using such short actions. Makes sense from an overall rigidity sense, although I personally believe this change in accuracy potential is only noticable in the most accurate setups, and even very accurate hunting rifles aren't going to be able to detect the change.

So first benifit, slightly more rigid potentially more accurate rifle

Second, there is an assumption that a short fat powder collum is more efficient and more consistent (hence more accurate).

Third, the shorter action allows for quicker working of the bolt...but only a tiny bit faster, really, if this is an issue, consider one of the many great autoloader sporting rifles around,

Fourth, as the action is shorter, the gun is usually lighter. Hence if you are trying to shave a few more ounces on a rifle you will be hiking in the mountains with, that's a good thing.

Now, all these 4 benifits come at two costs. First, you loose magazine capacity, second, as the rims of these are smaller than the body, in theory it could be a bit more difficult to extract. Unless you are hunting dangerous game in africa, neither cost is very important to most hunters.


However, smaller lighter rifles = MORE RECOIL.
More power = MORE RECOIL
There are claims to the contrary, but simple phyiscs does not bear it out. Rather, a slightly different stock angle, and improved recoil pad is most likely the case....plus recoil is subjective, and if you convince yourself the recoil will fell less, it probably will. Still, true recoil is all about calculation of bullet weight and speed, and gun weight.

besides, these guns aren't billed as 'better than normal magnums' or at least not better by much, they are billed as 'As good as regular magnums, in a lot shorter package' Basically they are packing the same gunpowder found in 'magnum length' chamberings in a much fatter case, that is short enough to work in a short action

300 winchester short magnum is supposed to duplicate regular 300 win mag etc. T

he one exception is that the .270 short mag does outperform the 270 winchester...but then no one claimed 270 was a magnum

The second phase, the super short mags, they are duplicating the performance of standard lenght and short length cartridges, hence the 25 SSM matches the 25-06, and while the 243 SSM outperforms the 243 slightly, it matches the wildcats 243-06/ 6mm-06 etc

For the most part they succeed, except when you get into heavier bullets, then the full length versions outperform them

yongxingfreesty
May 14, 2007, 11:00 PM
i think he might have meant trojan magnums or dodge magnum

Geister
May 15, 2007, 03:51 AM
magnum just means large caliber.

I wouldn't consider a .22 Magnum, or even a .357 Magnum to be large caliber.

Zen21Tao
May 15, 2007, 05:18 AM
http://www.guidodaniele.com/images/body_painting/magnum/magnum-spice.jpg

http://www.tursa.franken.de/pics/roll_magnum7sins.jpg

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