Origin of concealed carry laws


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kludge
May 10, 2007, 10:13 AM
The myth and legend thread got me to thinking...

I wonder about the origin of concealed carry, and I had a thought...

Is it possible that, oh 100 years ago or more, that concealed carry was an issue because of the fear of shooting someone who was unarmed, thus open carry was preferred/mandated?

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El Tejon
May 10, 2007, 10:37 AM
Laws against carrying concealed weapons have origins in England, but in the U.S. come from the South. As it was seen culturally, mean and disorderly men carried "brawler weapons" concealed (you can still see it in Southern laws against "dirks" and clubs). Gentlemen bore arms openly for all to see.

As well, there was the influence of the Slave Codes of the South. Even after losing the Civil War, the Civil Rights Act of 1866, Federal troops and the 14th Amendment, the right to arms of African-Americans was restricted. The Jim Crow Son of Ham laws were focused on disarming Blacks.

In the 20th century when economic immigrants moved to the bustling factory towns of the North (hence the old joke, what are the 3 Rs in the South? Readin', 'ritin', and Route 31 North), they brought their propensity for bawdy, drunken violence up with them (read Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell, the opening is a complaint letter to a newspaper in Indianapolis regarding the Southern immigrants). In response, many towns and states in the North forbade concealed weapons in order to combat these immigrants.

In fact, some of these laws still exist. Look at the Speedway, Indiana town code, http://www.townofspeedway.org/. It is an ordinance violation to cover up your pistol. Wear your pistol openly when on the west side of Indy, boys.:)

Here's the Speedway ordinance (9.08.020) which forbids concealed carry: http://code.townofspeedway.org/index.htm

kludge
May 10, 2007, 03:13 PM
Whodathunkit!?

In fact, some of these laws still exist. Look at the Speedway, Indiana town code, http://www.townofspeedway.org/. It is an ordinance violation to cover up your pistol. Wear your pistol openly when on the west side of Indy, boys.

Here's the Speedway ordinance (9.08.020) which forbids concealed carry: http://code.townofspeedway.org/index.htm


Is this enforced?

I actually travel through Speedway every time I head downtown.

AntiqueCollector
May 10, 2007, 03:36 PM
Some states never had laws against it, then passed laws against it. Vermont never passed laws against it. Some cities tried in the early 20th century to do so but Rutland City's ordinance against it was declared un-Constitutional and in violation of state law in 1903. That pretty much ended things for a long time. In the 90's, cities like Rutland (again!) and Barre and Montpelier all tried to do it again, and in all three cases, the ordinances were removed as illegal when an attempt was made to enforce them and courts struck them down, or under the threat of lawsuit. Current law forbids cities from restricting carrying of firearms (though not the discharge):

TITLE 24
Municipal and County Government
PART II
Municipalities
CHAPTER 61. REGULATORY PROVISIONS; POLICE POWER OF MUNICIPALITIES
Subchapter XI. Miscellaneous Regulatory Powers
2291. Enumeration of powers
For the purpose of promoting the public health, safety, welfare and convenience, a town, city or incorporated village shall have the following powers:
(1) To set off portions of public highways of the municipality for sidewalks and bicycle paths and to regulate their use.
(2) To provide for the removal of snow and ice from sidewalks by the owner, occupant or person having charge of abutting property.
(3) To provide for the location, protection, maintenance and removal of trees, plants and shrubs, and buildings or other structures on or above public highways, sidewalks, or other property of the municipality.
(4) To regulate the operation and use of vehicles of every kind including the power: to erect traffic signs and signals; to regulate the speed of vehicles subject to sections 1141 through 1147 of Title 23; to regulate or exclude the parking of all vehicles; and to provide for waiver of the right of appearance and arraignment in court by persons charged with parking violations by payment of specified fines within a stated period of time.
(5) To establish rules for pedestrian traffic on public highways and to establish crosswalks.
(6) To regulate the location, installation, maintenance, repair and removal of utility poles, wires and conduits, water pipes or mains, gas mains and sewers, upon, under or above public highways or public property of the municipality.
(7) To regulate or prohibit the erection, size, structure, contents and location of signs, posters or displays on or above any public highway, sidewalk, lane or alleyway of the municipality and to regulate the use, size, structure, contents and location of signs on private buildings or structures.
(8) To regulate or prohibit the use or discharge, but not possession of, firearms within the municipality or specified portions thereof, provided that an ordinance adopted under this subdivision shall be consistent with section 2295 of this title and shall not prohibit, reduce, or limit discharge at any existing sport shooting range, as that term is defined in section 5227 of Title 10.

TITLE 24
Municipal and County Government
PART II
Municipalities
CHAPTER 61. REGULATORY PROVISIONS; POLICE POWER OF MUNICIPALITIES
Subchapter XI. Miscellaneous Regulatory Powers
2295. Authority of municipal and county governments to regulate firearms, ammunition, hunting, fishing and trapping
Except as otherwise provided by law, no town, city or incorporated village, by ordinance, resolution or other enactment, shall directly regulate hunting, fishing and trapping or the possession, ownership, transportation, transfer, sale, purchase, carrying, licensing or registration of traps, firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or ammunition. This section shall not limit the powers conferred upon a town, city or incorporated village under section 2291(8) of this title. The provisions of this section shall supersede any inconsistent provisions of a municipal charter. (Added 1987, No. 178 (Adj. Sess.), eff. May 9, 1988.)


And starngely enough, it's come to my attention, that Rutland City is at it again, this time forbidding the carrying of firearms in city parks:

" 8005. Recreational activities. No person in a park shall:
1. Bathing and swimming.
(a) Designated areas. Swim, bath, or wade in any waters or waterways in or adjacent to any park, except in such waters and at such places as are provided therefor, and in compliance with such regulations as are herein set forth or may be hereafter adopted.
(b) Certain hours. Frequent any waters or places designated for the purpose of swimming or bathing, or congregate thereat, except between such hours of the day as shall be designated by the superintendent for such purposes for each individual area.
2. Firearms. No person shall use, carry, or possess firearms of any descriptions, or air-rifles, spring-guns, bow-and-arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially inimical to wild life and dangerous to human safety, or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device. Shooting into parks areas from beyond park boundaries is forbidden."

El Tejon
May 10, 2007, 03:59 PM
kludge, I've yet to hear of it being enforced. My dad never uncovered when we went to Speedway (I grew up on High School Road) for church or the recylcing center (where I hit the police car with the bottle:D). It's one of those laws that was passed years after the problem corrected itself (Southern immigrants became assimilated and found substitutes [work and family] for taking their shirts off and beating on each other on Friday night).

I'm always on the look out for citations, but my guess is that it is widely ignored. In fact, some of the guys on Glock Talk in the Indiana sub-forum have open carry dinners in Speedway and have been told by SPD to "cover up." The officers are always shocked to learn of the ordinance they are to be enforcing.:D I think one of the guys carries it around with him hoping the cops will stop him.:evil:

*You'll note that pinball machines are also illegal in Speedway, Indiana. Yet another widely ignored ordinance I'm guessing.

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