Pocket gun Poll

[Glamdring]

Want to get an idea how many people carry pocket guns and what caliber.

[Glamdring]

You can vote for more than one caliber.
If you use something that isn't listed post in thread. I think I have covered main pocket calibers.

[tbeb]

I carry an older Charter Arms Undercover .38 loaded with +P ammunition.

[yzguy]

P-32 :)

[Mike Irwin]

My regular is an S&W 042.

My old regular (and still go-to when I need a really flat, small, gun) is my Taurus PT-22.

[Kentucky Rifle]

I have several pocket pistols from which to choose, but I must admit, the one I reach for mostly is a Seecamp in a RJ Hedley "Back Pocket" model holster. It's a flat little pistol that's completely reliable with RBCD Ammunition. RJ's pocket holsters are bargains, too. This combination saved my bacon in a dark parking garage in downtown Louisville last year.

KR

[stevelyn]

Colt Mustang stoked with Speer Gold Dots.

[bnbc]

SW 340sc 125 jhp Federals

[Smoke]

Colt Gov't .380

[Jeff White]

S&W Model 36. Used to carry a Beretta 21A in .22LR as a BUG.

Primary is Glock 36 in KY-TEC IWB, BUG is S&W Model 36 in Pocket Grabber.

Jeff

[NJ3]

I have a S&W M38 and a Colt Mustang Pocketlite that share pocket duty. So I carry both .380acp and .38sp

[Mannlicher]

.38 Taurus 85CH two inch, or S&W Mod 60 three inch, both carried in Sam Andrews Leather.

[22luvr]

Smith and Wesson 340SC stoked with Proload 158 gr .357 mag JHP's.

[Hkmp5sd]

Glock 27 in .40S&W.

[faustulus]

Beretta Tomcat.

[bluesoftail]

NAA Guardian .380 or Kahr PM9 only when my G27 can't go.

[Edward429451]

Well, you said pocket guns and not mouse guns and my Charter Arms Bulldog is carried in my back pocket sometimes, 44 Special.

My mouse gun is a FA .22LR mini-revolver though.

[Marko Kloos]

I carry the only gun that has ever fit in my front pocket without making me look like I had a malignant growth...the KelTec P32, chambered in .32ACP.

I have no idea how you J-frame and Baby Glock guys can carry those things in your front pockets. I tried to tote both kinds in shorts with wide and deep front pockets, and they were pretty obvious.

[Jim March]

Why did you merge 22LR and 22Mag? They're not anywhere near the same.

All you've done is show your biases. We get so many disgustingly loaded polls on gun politics that it's a crying shame when we come to THR and see more of the same.

[sidearm]

Jim...

Not to flame but...:rolleyes:

Ok. Granted the .22LR and 22Mag are not the same. So what. You're comparing this to a loaded poll? Please spare us the song and dance. It's a good natured try at creating a interesting poll. Cut to the chase and tell us why you obviously think .22Mag is a good choice and or better than .22LR as a pocket gun carry option. No hard feelings, just my take-

Sidearm-

[cool45auto]

P32

[Glamdring]

Jim March: I put 22rf & 22WMR together because: 1) both are 22's 2) both are rimfires 3) I figured to most people here there wouldn't be much difference between them (they are in the same "tactical nich"). AFAIK you can get the 22 rf in the mini SA revolvers, 38 snub sized revolvers, or little autos (in same size class as P32). I don't think there are any 22WMR guns small enough for pocket carry other than the mini SA or 38 snub sized revolvers.

***
Personally I don't think much of anything smaller than 9x19 in pocket sized gun (I think 38+P is much better from 4" barrel). But my votes on this poll were 32 & 9x19, I do have a P32 but I don't have much faith in the cartridge so I will carry it only when I can't carry something bigger. But I am working on replacing both with 38 snubs because they have better triggers and I will reload brass from revolver, I hate hunting for brass from an auto :eek:
So I will get far more practice with the snub than I do with my small 32 or 9. And they seem for me to between the 9x19 and the 32 for concealment.
***
You could always start a thread about 22rf vs 22wmr if you wanted to.

[vertigo7]

Kel-Tec P-11 9mm stocked with 124gr Gold Dots. If I can get my paws on a P3AT, I might be convinced to go to .380 for pocket carry.

vertigo7

[rperry03]

Again..

Not listed

G27

Works great whenever making a quick run to the store.

[10-Ring]

Really depends on my perceived need and my attire. My sooper small gun is my Beretta 950. My other pocket gun is my 5-shot snubbie.
My 950 is very practical. I can throw it in the pocket of my slacks and forget it's there.

[MikeJ]

NAA Guardian .32 in right front pocket.

[hoppinglark]

P-32 in right pocket
2 mags in left
"that's what i carry when I'm unarmed"

[Jim March]

From a 2" barrel, the hottest 22LRs pull 1,000fps with a 32grain for around 70ft/lbs of energy.

From the same tube, the best 22Mags involve a 30grain doing 1,300fps, for 113ft/lbs energy.

For comparo: 32ACP is at best a 60grain at a bit over 900fps, for energy at 120ish ft/lbs. Which is the 22Mag closer to, the LR or the 32?

You assumed the two 22s were the same, and built your poll around that assumption.

It wasn't correct. Not anywhere close.

Data...

22LR:

http://www.naaminis.com/bwlrvel.html

22Mag:

http://www.naaminis.com/bwmvel.html

32ACP:

http://www.naaminis.com/vel32new.html

Energy table:

http://www.naaminis.com/energy.html

[m.i.sanders]

P-32 in the front pocket when I can't carry my XD.

[Glamdring]

Jim March: I have nothing against the 22 rimfires magnum or otherwise. I don't pay any attention to KE, as I recall from High School physics KE equations only apply if both projectile and target don't deform. Plus if you compare calibers using KE then 17 calibers would be better than 44 magnums, 30-30, 303, etc. Which is not the case in the real world.

For self defense rimfires do have some disadvantages vs centerfires. First of all the only guns you can get them in that are smaller than a more powerful cartridge, that I know of anyway, are the SA mini revolvers. Which give you five rounds of SA fire. To reload you have to remove cylinder from the gun and poke out the round then reload one at a time.

Now my P32 is about 1 ounce heavier than 22 mag mini revolver holds 7+1 or 10+1 if you use the extension mag. The slide locks back after the last shot, and you can reload very quickly with a spare mag.

So IMHO they serve very different roles. One is fairly slow to fire and extremly slow to reload. The other though still very weak by my standards can be fired quickly and reloaded quickly. They serve different roles/tactical niches because of the rate of fire, ease of reloading, and IMO the fact that the mini revolvers can't be operated with one hand smoothly at combat speeds.

Honestly if I am carrying anything smaller than a 38+p I consider myself unarmed. I really REALLY don't want to get into a gunfight with any of those mouse guns (really don't want to get in any gunfights, well painball can be fun :) ). I don't expect them to change a goblin's opinion about his planned course of action.

BTW I prefer 71 grain FMJ-FP in my P32 to hollowpoints.

[Jim March]

At close range, that small slidegun can go out of battery on muzzle contact.

The NAA Black Widow conceals VERY well in the pocket, and accuracy is superb, often on par with much bigger guns. You can also practice with it dirt cheap with 22LRs.

The firepower isn't usually a big factor at "bad breath range" where these pocket pieces are usually deployed.

Anyways.

We can debate all you want. You didn't just debate, you implanted your opinions into the poll questions.

[sm]

<raised hand>
Umm I've never shot the Keltec P-32. I do have a Keltec P-11 and I DO know it will fire out of battery. I have done this numerous times...just push against a teddy, slide retracts -pull trigger and bang-repeat. I did this with a pillow to replicate -ahem-contact firing. Other P-11's will also (heard they would, but I don't believe everything I read-or hear--have to test for myself)

OK, anybody tried this with a P-32? Results ?

thanks.

[Jim March]

Hmmmmmm.

In such out-of-battery firing, the rim must be held on the extractor, right? Otherwise the headspacing would be hosed and it wouldn't even go bang. And part of the case is unsupported?

This...doesn't sound good?

[sm]

Hey Jim, that's why you get paid the big bucks here at THR--to come up with answers :D

I thought it was kinda weird to have muzzle contact and still go boom. Don't plan on a real life test of this...but...well you know, things happen. Not something I make a habit of doing, just well, I heard, I tried, it did, I did it again...ok that was intersesting. Just fills a niche, my only plastic gun.

Currently don't have anything smaller than this P-11. I have used the Beretta Jetfire, and 21A in 22lr. NAA mini's in22lr and 22 mag.

Thanks Jim...

[CasualShooter]

P32 :D Bigger Hole = Better :D

P11 works well in waistband with belt clip but doesn't pocket as well as p32.

Tried S&W Mod 36 (J frame) but can't get it out of pocket - Hammer spur catches. :banghead:

[denfoote]

9X19.
Kahr MK9 lite in a Galco pocket holster!! :D

[Jim March]

re1973: very funny re: the bucks.

:p

On further contemplation...at what point would the shell blow up, spray hot gas down the mag well and set off a chain reaction?

One the one hand, if it's out of battery far enough, there'll be room for pressure to escape out the ejection port, which would be better than the alternative. BUT, given the feed-ramp cutout, the lack of case support probably happens at the lowest surface of the shell first as the slide comes back. Depending on a lot of factors, it'd be a "race" between the ejection port opening up and the shell blowing downwards before that.

Because we're "only" dealing with 32ACP, Kel-Tec clearly didn't include an out-of-battery disconnect on the trigger, something common in 45ACPs...I assume because if a 45 cut loose the odds of such a chain blow down the mag would be far higher.

Anyways. Aside from the dangers of just testing an out-of-battery firing condition, in actual combat use your odds of having the shell slip off of the ejector and failing to ignite at all are quite high. If the out-of-battery condition is high enough to open the ejector port, your pressure could drop enough to render the round mostly harmless :eek:.

Upshot: this is why I consider the snubby 38/357 wheelgun the kings of the close-combat handguns. Besides working well on muzzle contact, they're quick to deploy with just one control (trigger) and are difficult to grapple away.

The Black Widow is small enough for 24/7 front pocket carry. I wouldn't call it a "king" but as a backup/surprise option, it has a lot of merit.

[CasualShooter]

Hey, Jim.

No flame, you are obviously quite thoughtful and analytical; but, food for thought.

First, anyone who has let the threat get close enough to allow the muzzle contact you are worried about may find that he/she has just lost his/her life to the bad guy with a knife. :eek:

And there are many reasons, assuming such close contact, NOT to press the muzzle against the opponent. For one, it lets your opponent know where your weapon is without having to look for it and you may just find that it has suddenly been taken away from you. :o

If someone can get their hands on your gun, you may find that they have the leverage to do just that; and, they may also be able to prevent you from fireing while they are doing it. Did you know that grabbing the cylinder of a revolver can prevent its rotation and make DA trigger pull impossible? And a thumb or finger between the hammer and frame can prevent you from firing even a cocked revolver?

There are many pros and cons on both sides of the revolver v.s. semi-auto argument; but, IMHO out of battery caused by muzzle contact is not one of them. :scrutiny:

I don't want to start that argument of revolver v.s. semi-auto here (besides I use both). :uhoh: It just seems to me that you're giving too much weight to a non-issue. :banghead:

For pocket carry, first consideration is being able to get it into and out of your pocket. Darn! That rules out my 629 classic. :rolleyes:

Next consideration is whether the chosen cartridge is capable of doing enough damage to be of any use. As I said in an earlier post - Bigger Hole = Better - That's why I choose 32 acp over .22 LR, 22 WMR, and .25 acp.

Third consideration is delivery system and these are the reasons I choose P32. Yes, I'm considering moving to the P3AT. :D

Admittedly, there must be some compromise between the second and third considerations.

Now, if only Kel-Tec would come out with a version of the P32 in Cal .45 ACP .... :D

[Erik]

Kahr MK40. As tiny as I care to go.

[OEF_VET]

<----Another P-32 packer! (May upgrade to P3AT one day, but don't tell my P32)

[Landric]

Howdy,

I carry a S&W 342PD Airlite in a pocket holster with Speer Gold Dot 125 grain +P or Magsafe Defender ammunition.

Sometimes I carry a P32 with PMC 71 grain FMJ, but usually it's the 342PD.

[Gordon]

S&W mod 37 with 148 or 158 grain ammo is pretty hard to beat out of the pocket. I like the hammer for SA aimed fire longer shots.When in the last State Park, 6 miles in with mountain lion warnings posted everywhere, it was comforting to my little grand daughters to know grandpa could do more than yell for the Rangers! PS: Rangers would never know it was there .:D

[WhoKnowsWho]

P32 in front pocket.

Kahr K40 IWb when it isn't too hot.

In the Arizona desert, it's never hot, yup...

[MarkDido]

P32 w/10 rnd mag

[ruger357]

S&W 637, and a Jetfire.

[E357]

At up-close range it's pretty easy to tie up a snubby by just grabbing the cylinder. If the hammer is cocked you try to get a finger under it. I carry my Taurus 85 or Kel-Tec P-32 the most. No design is perfect.

Elliot

[northernedge]

hoppinglark
"P-32 in right pocket
2 mags in left
"that's what i carry when I'm unarmed"
LOL

How come no 357sig, 10mm, or 45ACP on your poll? You know Springfield, Glock and other companies have paved new ground toward micro compacts in outstanding defense calibers. I recently sold off a 38. snubby towards a Glock30 45 ACP. It will also replace the Glock19 I normally carry. These big bored micro sub-compact pistols are the best thing the gun companies have done in a long time, in my opinion.
__________________

[BlackJack]

My right front pocket carry is now an S&W 49. Bodyguard style blued steel .38 Special in an Andrews leather holster firing Speer Gold Dot 125gr +Ps. I have tried different guns in that form of carry including the Glock 26 which did fine. I switched away from it because it couldn't be fired from within a pocket--cloth jams slide. I also have tried the airweights and lighter guns, but they're not as controllable in my hands as is steel. I am currently contemplating a change to an S&W 649 so I can go stainless and also to .357 Mag. I work in a professional environment where polo shirts and dockers are the norm year round. And it get hot here hence the move to stainless to keep the moisture from rusting or corroding the gun.

[Ky Larry]

Beretta 21A in .22 LR. I load it with CCI Stingers.

[DonGlock26]

P-32 - light as a feather attention getter.

[Lancel]

If I pocket carry for a long time, it's most likely a Seecamp or Tomcat .32 ACP.

Sometimes I'll slip a .32 magnum snubnose in my pocket to step outside if I'm not already wearing it.

(I use a pocket holster in either case.)

Larry

[enutees]

I carry a P32. I'd still like to know how you shove a G27 in your pocket. Maybe I need bigger pockets. I think it would be easier to carry a brick.

[TheMariner]

Jennings J22... internal firing pin. No hammer, no cyclinder, no problems...

Jim, why did you pick a 32gr 1,000fps when you could have gone with a much more preferable and deadly 38gr JHP Hi-vel at the same speed? That, I believe (I hated physics class so I'm not doing any computational numbers here...) puts the .22LR closer to the .22mag than before... Plus, atleast around here, most people don't use any .22LR round lower than 38gr... I've never even seen anything lower than 38gr Hi-Vel ammo around... seen heavier, 40gr, but not lighter.

[landon74]

I like either 158 gr. half jackets or the 125 gr JHP in my scandium framed .357 magnum.

[Geech]

I'm really going to show my ignorance, here... but what's all this out-of-battery talk?

[CasualShooter]

I'm really going to show my ignorance, here... but what's all this out-of-battery talk?

Simply put, in the case of a SA Pistol, it just means that the slide is not in the fully forward position, i.e., slide pushed rearward slightly. You can cause this by pressing the muzzel against an object or person's body. :(

[Glamdring]

With Dockers you can carry (not really conceal IMHO) 4" K/L frames and 4" N frames. I would think G27 would be to heavy for comfortable carry with most pants though.

What kind of holster and pants are the G27 people using?

[Geech]

I see. Thanks, CS.

[Edward429451]

At up-close range it's pretty easy to tie up a snubby by just grabbing the cylinder. If the hammer is cocked you try to get a finger under it.

Now I'm no expert and I'm not tryin to tell anyone anything, but this (may or may not depending on circumstances) go against whay I've been taught about SD scenarios. That you don't fight the weapon, you fight the man.

All I'm sayin is you might not want to put too much focus on the weapon he has. While you're focusing on your thumb wrestling with his gun, he sticks you with a knife with his off hand. The man is the threat. Take out the threat.

Just thoughts.

[CasualShooter]

Edward....

Now I'm no expert and I'm not tryin to tell anyone anything, but this (may or may not depending on circumstances) go against whay I've been taught about SD scenarios. That you don't fight the weapon, you fight the man.

I don't get it. :confused: So you're suggesting the gun be ignored ? You don't take it away if you have a chance? :rolleyes:

The weapon is very much a part of the threat. Didn't your training mention weapon retention and disarming techniques? :scrutiny:

All that's been mentioned is one tiny aspect of many defensive/offensive manuvers. :)

If you are ever in the right situation and are not aware of such manuvers, you may, indeed, suddenly find that your weapon has been taken away from you and you are suddenly at the mercy of a perpetrator armed with YOUR weapon. :eek: Not Good! :o

Conversely, if the perp has the weapon and you're unarmed, you need be able to consider ALL options. One of those, should you be familiar with disarming techniques, and have the opportunity, is to simply take the weapon away. Don't rule out any options before assessing the situation. :banghead:

Gee. Did I really get that wordy? ... :D

[FPrice]

I voted for two. My current pocket guns are a Seecamp LWS-32 with WW SilverTips or a Charter Arms Undercover .38 Spl using Federal 110 gr Hydrashoks.

[Glamdring]

Link to CCW Poll: Caliber, location
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=344857#post344857


******
northernedge: Why no 10mm or 45 or such? Well I don't think many people would carry those sized guns in a pocket.

If you read my first two posts I suggest that anyone that carries in pocket with something else not on the poll post in the thread.

[Edward429451]

I don't get it. So you're suggesting the gun be ignored ? You don't take it away if you have a chance?

Well shore you take it away from him. But if he's got some mammoth hold on it and dont give it up immediately, dont ignore it but dont overly focus on the gun thats all. A guns only a deadly weapon when someones holding it. If you continue fightong the gun only you may deprive yourself of other options, thats all.

If you're fighting the gun hand, the rest of the deadly weapon (man) is free to continue his attack in other ways at the same time. If you crush his larynx or or rip out his eyeball or something in the middle of it all, he's likely to turn his attention inward instead of on you or his gun.

I'm just not re iterating this as effectivly as it was taught to me, I guess.

[Glamdring]

Edward429451: If I may put words in your mouth? I think your trying to say don't get tunnel vision in the tactical sense.

And that you have to defeat your opponent not his weapon (ie if you can pych him out that works also).

[CasualShooter]

Glamdring and Edward....

I think your trying to say don't get tunnel vision in the tactical sense.

I don't think anyone has suggested that. :banghead: I think we can agree it's wise to Maintain All Options and Apply That Which Seems Most Effective In a Given Situation . :D

[Edward429451]

I think your trying to say don't get tunnel vision in the tactical sense.

Yeah, thats it.:D

I don't think anyone has suggested that.

I probably read too much into it.:scrutiny: :D

[Sharpie1]

Currently, I carry a P-32 - but if the P3AT works out, I may switch.

TD

[Erik Jensen]

does my MK40 count as a pocket gun? with somewhat loose cargo pants I've been known to slip it in my front pocket. it also works in my rear pocket in jeans (with a holster), but I carry my wallet on my strong side, and I'm not used to having it on my weak side.

[telcom911]

in .22mag. when I do carry it is a thrd gun, fits right in my back pocket. My actual bug is a G27, which gtoes very well with my G22 promary.

[jarhead]

My always gun is a Seecamp .32acp... I don't really look at it like a self defense gun as much as I look at it as my gun to have to allow me to get to another gun...

[mothernatureson]

I own a 1908 colt .25 auto, it's dependable. A great vintage arm made in 1913, but would be more effective if there were a 50 rd mag for it. I don't carry anything for self-defense. Truthfully, if I were to carry a gun, I may be tempted to pull it and escelate into something awful. Wonder how many people carry sidearms that would be better off without them. Just my two cents, but respect others who do carry. Peace,
mothernatureson

[brownie0486]

Voted for two

357 640-1
380 NAA

Brownie

[CasualShooter]

mothernatureson...

I don't carry anything for self-defense. Truthfully, if I were to carry a gun, I may be tempted to pull it and escelate into something awful. Wonder how many people carry sidearms that would be better off without them.

I agree that some people are better off without side arms and from the record of states with "Shall Issue" concealed carry license provisions it would appear that most of those people know who they are.

Right to Carry/Liscense to Carry does not mean must carry. Along with rights go responsibilities. It sounds to me that you are recognizing your own temperment and are exercising a responsibile choice to NOT carry in your own case. :what:

It's called, FREEDOM! :D

[Spieler]

I carry a Beretta M21A .25 ACP in front strong side pocket in a holster. I have always liked the little Berettas but got the .25 acp for the worst possible reason - I got a good deal on it. Now I know why, the ammo for it costs MORE than 9mmP! :(

[happyguy]

AMT .45 acp Backup

Regards,
Happyguy:D

[CasualShooter]

Spieler...

My wife and I each have a M21A (ours are in .22LR). You should take a look at Kel-Tec's P32 or P3AT. :) Each of these are smaller, lighter, easier to conceal, shoot a more powerful cartridge, and are cheaper to shoot than your M21A in .25 ACP. And my P32 is more reliable than either of our M21A's. :D

[Kahr carrier]

S&W 640 -38+P or Kahr Mk 40.:)

[CasualShooter]

I've got a 6-1/2" barreled S&W mod 629 classic that would be perfect with full house .44 mag loads. :cool: Now if only I could find some pants with bigger front pockets.... :D

[tatters]

P-32 as well.

I used to carry a Sundance Point Blank Derringer.

[aerod1]

When I can't carry my 357 magnum caliber Taurus 605, I usually carry my 32 caliber Beretta Tomcat either in my pocket or on an ankle holster.

Jim Hall