Old K Frame Smith


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pv74
May 13, 2007, 01:37 AM
Picked this up for $200. I think it is an old hand ejector.
How did I do price wise?
When was it made? Tell me more about it.

It is a beautifuly made revolver. I took it out and ran a box of 158gr LRN through it. Accurate and fun to shoot. Trigger is nice in single and double action. On the but of the revolver over the serial number a three digit number is stamped (dealer told me that this may be an old post office gun).

The grips are not original, but the dealer told me he would bring the originals in next week for me

Serial Number 515XXX
http://i3.tinypic.com/4osxx5u.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/68id9jd.jpg
http://i4.tinypic.com/541845k.jpg
http://i9.tinypic.com/6ftmz5i.jpg
http://i10.tinypic.com/4p4himh.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/4kvugza.jpg

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glockman19
May 13, 2007, 02:15 AM
Best I can tell the serial number would put it around 1928-1930 and would be a S&W Military & Police Model 1905 - 4th change .38 cal. 6 shot fluted cylinder, 2, 4, 5, 6" barrels, 485,296 manuractured between 1915-1948, serial #'s range 241,704-approx 1,000,000.

98% = $1,400
95% = $1,225
90% = $1,050
80% = $850
70% = $775
60% = $650
50% = $525
40% = $400

pv74
May 13, 2007, 02:21 AM
Looks like I walked out with a deal for $200.

The lettering is highlighted with yellow paint. Is this from the factory?

RON in PA
May 13, 2007, 04:10 AM
Yellow is not factory. Is it yellow or gold? There was a fashion at one time (1950s,1960s?) to rub gold color into the lettering of revolvers.

pv74
May 13, 2007, 04:21 AM
It is a yellowish, almost gold color. I think it looks kind of neat. I'll just leave it alone. I like the way it looks.

Interesting to know about that fad..never heard about that...of course, I wasn't alive back then:)

Ala Dan
May 13, 2007, 10:01 AM
Back in the late 70's or early 80's I knew a man who used to buy colored
wax (crayon type) markers, and he would fill in the letters and numbers
on his S&W revolvers with colors like white, yellow, and red. It looked
good, but would not hold up for long periods of time; and needed to be
touched up if the weapon was used, or subjected to much handling~! :eek:

Brian Williams
May 13, 2007, 10:06 AM
Shoot it and enjoy, Keep using those standard LRN and you will have the gun for a good long time. You could also use target level wadcutters and SWC.

Nice piece, just about what I am looking for, I just want one with a round butt.

Iggy
May 13, 2007, 11:07 AM
They are out there. I keep seeing other people finding them.
When is it going to be my turn to find a bargain like that?

Enjoy your wonderful new "old" gun!:o

Old Fuff
May 13, 2007, 11:25 AM
Well I have good news and bad... :) :(

Your revolver is indeed a Smith & Wesson .38 1905 Hand Eejector, Military & Police Model), 4th Change that was made during the late 1920's - or possibly 1930. It is everything you might ask for in a top quality revolver with pre-war hand craftmanship. But it's value is close to what you paid for it. These days similar guns go for around $250 to $300.00, as collectors would't pay more unless it had the original stocks. With the stocks, a $400.00 value would be streaching it. Shooters go for shorter barrel lengths, and yes - they are missing a good thing.

It could have been a Post Office gun, but I'd more likely suspect an Express Company or police department. Most of the revolvers that were purchased for the U.S.P.S. during this period were snub-nosed .38 revolvers used to arm clerks on trains carrying mail.

You could obtain a letter documenting the exact history of the revolver concerning what distributor, dealer, or organization it was originally sold to, and the date it was shipped. The cost for doing the research and sending the letter is $30.00, and more information can be found at www.smith-wesson.com

If it turned out that the revolver had been sold to a well known organization (and that is a big "if"), the increased value of the gun would more then pay for the letter.

SaxonPig
May 13, 2007, 11:36 AM
Glockman19-Where in the Hell did you get a value of $400 for a 40% M&P? $100 is more like it. IMO the gun pictured is worth no more than $125 but I wasn't shopping for one. The M&Ps are great and everyone should have at least one. I think I currently have 7 of them hanging around the house.

I have bought about 5 of these in the past couple years, paying between $60 (4" reblued gun) and $200 (decent but not great 2" guns, bought a pair at this price and the snubs bring a bit more).

Some people put model airplane paint or nail polish in the lettering to accent it. Wears off after a time or comes out with thinner.

The date somewhere around 1930 sounds right.

Old Fuff
May 13, 2007, 11:37 AM
Iggy:

Your location is working against you because relatively few of these revolvers were sold in your part of the country because not very many people lived there at the time. However if you are willing to pay something in the $300.00 to $400.00 range (less if you don't mind some blue wear) you can own a revolver similar to the one in this thread. Contact Jim Supica at www.armchairgunshow.com and explain what you want, and are willing to pay. Jim is a leading authority on S&W, and can find just about anything you want.

deadin
May 13, 2007, 11:37 AM
Glockman,
Where did you get those values?
I want to use that source when I sell my next S&W.:D :D

pv74
May 13, 2007, 11:56 AM
It might be interesting to purchase a letter just to see where the gun was originally shipped. I doubt it is anything special.

I was looking at two much newer model 10s and decided against them. I was walking out of the gunstore when I saw this one on the counter, next to the cash register. I asked to look at it, and the salesperson said "we have been trying to get rid of that for six months...price is $200, it WAS $250." I said "give it to me" :D

It has a lot of handling wear, but, it is excellent mechanical shape, and the pre war craftsmanship that went into making this thing cannot be beat. It is just like a Winchester rifle from that era. I think the older S&W revolvers are a bargain. In fact, you are better off buying the older guns compared to the new ones.

While new S&W revolvers are very good (I like them much more than I do Taurus or Ruger), they are not given anywhere near the attention to detail that the old ones were. I think this is self evident to anyone who has been collecting guns for a while.

At least S&W has somewhat seen the light and re-introduced their line of blued revolvers. I have not seen one yet, but the reports I have from a few friends is that they are acceptable, but just do not have the level of craftsmanship as the older ones.

A new model 29 retails for about $1,000, while an older pinned and recessed one in primo shape may go for as much as that. I would rather spend my money one the older gun.

Iggy
May 13, 2007, 12:05 PM
Ol Fuff:

Thanks for the info. I get the shakes every time I go to that site. My cows get nervous about it too.
They figger if I find one I really like, some of them are gonna get a one way ride to the sale ring.

I saw an old M&P in a gun shop here a couple of years ago. It had no finish, the grips were chipped, and somebody had used vice grips on the ejector rod for something.

They were asking $350.00. I didn't bite, but it was gone the next time I was in the store.

Any nice old gun that shows up in this part of the country is gone in a heartbeat.

They're out there, but you have to be in the right place at the right time with cash in hand.

Old Fuff
May 13, 2007, 12:15 PM
I asked to look at it, and the salesperson said "we have been trying to get rid of that for six months...price is $200, it WAS $250."

This is often the case. Collectors want 100% guns in perfect to almost perfect shape, and will pay $$$ to get them. Today's shooters aren't much interested in older .38 revolvers in general, and long-barreled ones in particular. This often gives someone who is interested in them an advantage. Because of the attention given them when they were built, these longer barreled revolvers (Colt's as well as Smith & Wesson's) will often shoot one-hole groups at 25 yards - hand held :eek: if the shooter does his or her part. At a shooting range you can humiliate most of the crowd with high-cap slam-bangers... :evil:

plexreticle
May 13, 2007, 12:28 PM
$200 is a good deal for that gun.

pv74
May 13, 2007, 12:30 PM
I line in Moutain Home, Idaho.
I went to the gunshop a few miles down the long road to the gate of the airbase. (for a gunshop outside of the gate, they do have good prices on stuff and are willing to deal).

Anyhow, the young arimen are interested in low priced stuff that goes bang. The salesman tells me that he sells a lot of cheap Lorcin 9mm pistols :barf:

A significant portion of this guys business is done on gunbroker as the clientel from the base are not interested in the older revolvers or the antique Winchester rifles that make their way into the shop.

One good thing about living here in the Idaho desert is that thier are dozens of places to shoot 15 minutes from where I live :D

I do miss my friend, UGAARGUY, another S&W nut. He moved back east. Having him around was a bad influence :D

glockman19
May 13, 2007, 12:58 PM
Glockman19-Where in the Hell did you get a value of $400 for a 40% M&P? $100 is more like it. IMO the gun pictured is worth no more than $125 but I wasn't shopping for one. The M&Ps are great and everyone should have at least one. I think I currently have 7 of them hanging around the house.
Glockman,
Where did you get those values?
I want to use that source when I sell my next S&W.

Latest Edition of the Blue Book of Guns. On sale today 19.99 from Midwayusa.com

deadin
May 13, 2007, 01:17 PM
Latest Edition of the Blue Book of Guns. On sale today 19.99 from Midwayusa.com

There's got to be a misprint or Fjestad's been smoking something other than Camel's. There is no way that the value of a common S&W has quadrupled in three years. (My source is the 25th Anniversy edition 2004.)

Gordon
May 13, 2007, 01:29 PM
Yeah thats about what the previous year gives for model 27s and 25s !

pv74
May 13, 2007, 02:01 PM
Quote:
Latest Edition of the Blue Book of Guns. On sale today 19.99 from Midwayusa.com

There's got to be a misprint or Fjestad's been smoking something other than Camel's. There is no way that the value of a common S&W has quadrupled in three years. (My source is the 25th Anniversy edition 2004.)

90% guns seem to be going from $300 to $400 on GunsAmerica. That's really the true test of value IMHO...what people are willing to pay.


Still..for $200 I am not complaining.

mmcbeat
May 13, 2007, 06:07 PM
Just my opinion, but you very rarely pay too much for a nice S&W, you might be buying early but not paying too much.

Cosmoline
May 13, 2007, 06:23 PM
Shiny--you did REALLY well.

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