scuffling noises in the night.....


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SSN Vet
May 15, 2007, 12:09 PM
So much for the "good neighborhood".

I'm glad I'm a light sleeper.

This off Fox news today........

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LANCASTER, Pa. Pennsylvania authorities are hunting for the person who murdered a couple and their teenage son in their suburban home in the middle of the night.
Authorities are pleading with the public to help them track down the assailant and asked the FBI for help. They are urging area residents to keep their doors and windows locked.
"The suspect is out in the community somewhere," Manheim Township police Chief Neil J. Harkins said Monday evening.
Thomas Alan Haines, 50, Lisa Ann Haines, 47, and their son Kevin, 16, were found stabbed to death Saturday at their house on a leafy street in an upper-middle-class neighborhood of Manheim Township, police said at a news conference.
"Someone knows something about this crime," Harkins said.
The couple's daughter Margaret, 20, was home at the time and called 911 from a neighbor's house at 2:24 a.m., police said. She was awakened by a noise and went into her parents' bedroom, Harkins said. Harkins described the commotion Maggie heard as a "scuffling sound."

Her father was lying on the bed and her mother, who was sitting on it, quietly asked her daughter to seek assistance, Harkins said.

"Her mother said to her to go get help, leave the house and go get help," the chief said.

It's unclear whether Thomas Haines was already dead at that point, or just unconscious.

The Lancaster Intelligencer Journal reported that Maggie then ran to a neighbor's house for help, and never saw her brother.

Click here to read the Intelligencer Journal story

Margaret, known as Maggie, did not see a suspect or intruder, he said.

Officers arrived about five minutes after receiving 911 call and found the three victims already dead inside the two-story stone house. The parents were found in their bedroom, and the son was found in an upstairs hallway.

Autopsies revealed that they died of stab wounds. "Violent death for all three," Lancaster County Coroner Gary Kirchner said, according to the Lancaster Intelligencer Journal.

He said no weapon was recovered.

"Who the hell did this?" Kirchner said. "I mean, that neighborhood is a class neighborhood."

Investigators said they are researching the histories and lifestyles of all four family members in hopes of finding an event or person of interest related to the slayings, reported the Intelligencer Journal.

Police canines and helicopters combed the area near the slayings Monday, the newspaper reported. One of the bloodhounds trailed a scent early in the day, but investigators would not say if the trail was left by the killer.

Meanwhile, Manheim Township residents remain on edge.

Board of commissioners president Carol Simpson told the Intelligencer Journal the killing is "beyond horrible" and "unimaginable."

"There is shock and pain. Everybody in the township is on edge," Simpson said. "The heinousness of the crime is unexplainable.

Authorities repeated a warning to residents to keep their doors locked. Police found the Haineses' back door open when they responded to the 911 call. Harkins would not say if that was how the killer entered, but he noted there were no signs of forced entry and nothing was taken from the home.

The search warrant for the Haineses' home was sealed because it contains sensitive information that could compromise the investigation, Lancaster County District Attorney Donald Totaro said.

Harkins said there would be more searches of the home over the coming days.

A next-door neighbor, Leonard Witkonis, said his windows were open the night of the killings, but he didn't hear anything.

He described the Haines family as quiet.

"They weren't very sociable," said Witkonis, 68, a retired state worker.

Father and son would sometimes play catch in the backyard, and Thomas Haines jogged through the neighborhood, he said.

At Manheim Township High School, where Kevin Haines was a sophomore and member of the German club and Quiz Bowl team, a moment of silence was observed during morning announcements Monday.

"Everybody is kind of in shock," said Marcie Brody, a district spokeswoman.

Maggie Haines was a 2005 graduate of Manheim Township, according to Brody, and had just completed her sophomore year at Bucknell. She returned home for the summer on Thursday, Harkins said.

Totaro said Maggie Haines has cooperated with investigators, and Harkins said investigators have no reason to believe she was involved in the killings.

Thomas Haines was a salesman at Motion Industries in Lancaster. A man who answered the phone at the industrial supply company on Monday declined comment.

Lisa Haines was a teacher at Lancaster Brethren Preschool, according to Jeffery B. Rill, pastor at the Lancaster Church of the Brethren. Her school had its last day of classes on Friday.

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helpless
May 15, 2007, 12:14 PM
"Who the hell did this?" Kirchner said. "I mean, that neighborhood is a class neighborhood."

What the hell does this mean?

TexasRifleman
May 15, 2007, 12:15 PM
"Who the hell did this?" Kirchner said. "I mean, that neighborhood is a class neighborhood."

That's a stupid thing to say.

but he noted there were no signs of forced entry and nothing was taken from the home.


This won't turn out to be a random killing most likely.

This person knew at least one of the victims and was very unhappy with them.

My guess anyway.

Horrible nonetheless.

Sage of Seattle
May 15, 2007, 12:18 PM
The cynic in me says the daughter did it.

No matter the case, it's certainly a tragedy.

Harkins said investigators have no reason to believe she was involved in the killings.

No reason yet, but in my opinion, any smart detective has her at the top of the list of suspects.

SSN Vet
May 15, 2007, 12:36 PM
my guess is drugs.....

someone didn't pay their bill on time.

Notch
May 15, 2007, 01:04 PM
Yupper... Me thinks the girl is involved...

AlaskaErik
May 15, 2007, 01:15 PM
The cynic in me says the daughter did it.

I couldn't help but think the same thing. Something not quite right about her story.

one-shot-one
May 15, 2007, 01:20 PM
??? ya'll really think the daughter did it (stabbed three people) and cleaned up well enough not to get arrested on the spot?
if she is involved, my monday quarter backin' would say look at her boy friend or ex-boyfriends.

glockman19
May 15, 2007, 01:22 PM
Something doesn't add up here? ;)

Daughter told by parents to leave the house for help? :confused:

She didn't pass the intruder on the way out?:rolleyes:

There's more to this story we don't know yet. :scrutiny:

whited
May 15, 2007, 01:27 PM
What a bizarre story.

"The suspect is out in the community somewhere"

:confused:

To me this quote is the most interesting part.

Sage of Seattle
May 15, 2007, 01:30 PM
??? ya'll really think the daughter did it (stabbed three people) and cleaned up well enough not to get arrested on the spot?

Sure, why not? She very easily could have just murdered them all in their sleep, taken ten minutes to clean up and then "rush" over to the neighbor's house.

if she is involved, my monday quarter backin' would say look at her boy friend or ex-boyfriends.

Yes, upon further thought, that could also be very likely. If she wasn't the one who did the stabbing, I'd bet that, at minimum, she was the instigator of the crime.

Biker
May 15, 2007, 01:37 PM
Well folks, if you butcher three people, you're not gonna clean up that easy or that quick. Whole lotsa blood in a body and it doesn't always go where you figure it should when you let it out under pressure.

Biker

Steve N
May 15, 2007, 01:41 PM
My money is on the daughter's boyfriend, and she was complicent in the crime.

Second choice is daughter's ex-boyfriend got revenge.

Third choice is one of the kid's screwed with a drug dealer, and got a lot more than they bargained for.

Kali Endgame
May 15, 2007, 01:58 PM
It will be interesting to find out what kind of life insurance or assets the deceased had. Suspicion points to the daughters involvement in some way. Although, it would be interesting if the killer let her live and takes her out later.

Eyesac
May 15, 2007, 02:05 PM
The butler did it with pruning shears... Funny how everyone's guessing. I think aliens did it...

Horrible story, hope they catch the bastard.

Macpherson
May 15, 2007, 02:40 PM
Terrible story, sounds a lot like an inside job, but it just goes to show that there are no "safe" neighborhoods. Income level or social status doesn't shield anyone from crime, in fact upper class neighborhoods may be more susceptible to crime.

SniperStraz
May 15, 2007, 02:50 PM
Seems like anyone who had any beef with the family like a drug dealers and such would use a gun. Much less personal and you don't get dirty. Daughter's story is a little fishy but the cops can't be stupid enough not to look into it right away can they? Sounds like there's something missing.

TallPine
May 15, 2007, 06:15 PM
Well, if all pointy objects were banned, things like this would never happen :rolleyes:

the naked prophet
May 16, 2007, 12:29 PM
No forced entry? Someone could have forgotten to lock a door. Or to go along with the "drug dealer" theory, someone let a drug dealer in the house to buy some stuff, ran out of credit, and got stabbed. The son? Likely not the daughter, since if it was her, she would have been stabbed first. Dealer then assumed the parents might have money.

It's all speculation. I don't think she could have done it. Speculation. I'm sure the cops have already come up with all these theories, which are currently scattered on marker boards around a detectives office - some of which are crossed out due to evidence not in the news item.

Speer
May 16, 2007, 12:33 PM
"I mean, that neighborhood is a class neighborhood."

Yeah, of course. :rolleyes:

SniperStraz
May 16, 2007, 05:17 PM
Well, if all pointy objects were banned, things like this would never happen That's not what I meant. I meant that I feel like most drug dealers and people that run in those circles probably have plenty of access to one-time-use guns.

NeoSpud
May 16, 2007, 06:31 PM
I just recently saw an episode of Dominic Dunne's Power, Privilige, and Justice with a murder almost exactly like this one, with the daughter having orchestrated it with the help of two male friends. When I first read this through I immediately thought back to that ep, though most likely it's just a coincidence. Still, something fishy is goin' on...

MEH
May 16, 2007, 08:08 PM
It's strange having stuff like this happen so close to home. A neighbor told me a few weeks ago "You don't need guns in this area nothing bad ever happens here". Now let me see there was a guy that killed his family with a hammer, there was the schoolhouse shooting, 6 or so burglaries, 2 or 3 hold-ups, and at least one bank robbery within the past 2 years. And also lots of pedophiles living in the area.

EDIT:Those are just the ones I know about, and that doesn't include Lancaster, just a few miles around my house in the rural areas.

cousinelmer1
May 16, 2007, 08:25 PM
not good

Cpl Nobbs
May 16, 2007, 08:31 PM
the media isn't going to give us any "facts" they don't want to. (just like with guns) no way to decide anything based on a media report.

runfrumu
May 16, 2007, 08:41 PM
probably a deranged boyfriend or ex of the daughter.

another okie
May 16, 2007, 09:34 PM
"Who the hell did this?" Kirchner said. "I mean, that neighborhood is a class neighborhood."

Statements like this used to really irritate me. Now I realize they are just a coping mechanism, a way of saying "it can't happen to me because..."

CNYCacher
May 16, 2007, 09:54 PM
Ok, so the killer kills dad in his sleep, stabs mom as she wakes up, and then leaves her to die as he moves to the son's room. Daughter comes to the parents' room and in the dark doesn't notice that mom is covered in blood and dad is dead. Mom urges her to go get help and she makes it out, having never seen the killer or even realizing that her mom was already mortally wounded.

Creepy.

The whole thing is a little too "horror movie".

psyopspec
May 16, 2007, 10:05 PM
Okie, it also can be a form of self-absolution. "There's no way we could have seen this coming" is justifiable in some cases:

Just as strange was the fate of a British officer, Major Summerford, who while fighting in the fields of Flanders in February 1918 was knocked off his horse by a flash of lightning and paralyzed from the waist down. Summerford retired and moved to Vancouver. One day in 1924, as he fished alongside a river, lightning hit the tree he was sitting under and paralyzed his right side. Two years later Summerford was sufficiently recovered that he was able to take walks in a local park. He was walking there one summer day in 1930 when a lightning bolt smashed into him, permanently paralyzing him. He died two years later. But lightning sought him out one last time. Four years later, during a storm, lightning struck a cemetery and destroyed a tombstone. The deceased buried here? Major Summerford.

-from a geocities website on historic coincidences. Take it for what it's worth, either way it's an interesting tale.

Humans violently attacking one another? That's another matter entirely. While the details change, it's always happend and always will. Speaking of details, I'm in the camp that says we don't have enough to go on.

Hardtarget
May 17, 2007, 12:25 AM
Why do I keep thinking of the story of Lizzy Borden? If the daughter didn't do it...could have been a boy friend. Kill everyone...inherit everything. Instant wealth.

Even sounds bad to me. We'll never know 'cause we'll never hear.

Mark.

akodo
May 17, 2007, 12:32 AM
good thing the attacker didn't have a gun, if he did, the death toll would have been much higher!

Sunray
May 17, 2007, 12:35 AM
"...good neighborhood..." That'd be a target rich environment for criminals. There's nothing to steal in 'bad neighbourhoods' and the assorted riff-raff that live there are all armed.

QuickDraw
May 17, 2007, 01:57 AM
It was Colonel Mustard with the lead pipe in
the library.:D
If I had to guess,I'd say the daughter.Pretty weird
that shes home a week and then this.What did she
bring home from school?

Zen21Tao
May 17, 2007, 07:50 AM
This looks like a typical example of life the anti-gun crowds "ideal" world. The attacker didn't use an gun and there wasn't a gun in the house "to make the outcome worse." In eyes of a gun grabber, the daughter did the right thing. Rather than getting a firearm and having a chance at saving the lives of her family (or in the words of gun grabbers "making a bad situation worse"), she ran away and called the police so they could respond after everyone in the house had been killed.

I sorry, this "ideal gun grabber world" looks pretty bleak to me. To me, "getting help" means grabbing a gun not the phone.

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