Why KAHR handguns are 'better' than a Glock in many ways


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glockarmourer40517
May 16, 2007, 10:21 PM
saying from the getgo, that i own a mountain of glocks.....and only recommend all-metal KAHRs (yes, theyre heavy).

....AND that i utterly despise the POLYMER KAHR guns due to excessive reports of poor design of the frame....AND that a few parts in Polymer KAHR guns are GLUED into the frame...yes glued.......
_______________________________________________________________
KAHR ARMS is a very small company thats generally unknown, and unheard of,.......having worked in 2 gunshops, i can say that most gun shops do NOT carry KAHR guns.... just the way it is.

_______________________________________________________________
PLUS? fewer parts than a GLOCK....yes, even MORE simplex

PLUS? low bore axis like a glock is.....ie little muzzle flip

PLUS? Single-stack 9mm and 40SW micro-guns, ...something which Glock does NOT have in its product line (but should..the darn fools!)

PLUS? Patented Staggered Barrel Locking Lug make little recoil out of KAHRs

PLUS? ungodly accurate for their size.

PLUS? Patented extractor makes non-extraction a near impossibility

MINUS? .....heavy,.......relatively expensive
_______________________________________________________________

Everyone who owns a MICRO KAHR (MK9 or MK40) says the same thing, "wow, i cant believe the accuracy out of this little gun, A-MAZING".....heard this dozens of times...

i will never carry a 9mm for self-defense, however, yes, the KAHR all-metal guns are heavy little suckers, but carry a K40 in pocket holster.
_______________________________________________________________
KAHR PATENTS::::>
five patents were received on the Kahr pistol design. The most important of the patents is the Staggered Barrel Locking Lug

The second patent made it possible to attach the trigger bar to the trigger with minimum use of space.

The third patent covers the Striker Activation System of the pistol. The use of the "cocking cam" to both actuate the striker and deactivate the safety gives Kahr pistols a uniquely smooth and consistent double-action trigger pull.

The fourth patent explains a method of an Inertia Fired Striker. This patent is less critical in that there are a number of methods explained in the art of how to achieve this function.

The fifth patent is related to Kahr's unique extractor design. The extractor's uniqueness is that its pivoting motion is limited in one direction to make "failures to extract" a near impossibility. (I BELIEVE THE MOST IMPORTANT PATENT).

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270Win
May 16, 2007, 10:49 PM
Maybe someone can confirm this; but "gunshop talk" has it that Kahr can't be sold in Maryland because the company refuses to provide a fired bullet/shell casing/whatever, as per the crazy laws here.

wad
May 16, 2007, 10:52 PM
I have a very early all steel K9, the version with the electroless nickel plating. Though I agree that they are great pistols, the impossibility happened on mine...it failed to extract, when the extractor broke:uhoh: . In fairness though, the gun has many thousands of rounds put through it.

tostada
May 16, 2007, 10:54 PM
Kahr has a very different market than Glock, though, so it's odd comparing them. If you're going to, the only major advantage of the Kahr is size (crazy that the smallest Glocks are still as fat as the biggest ones). But price, weight, and durability certainly aren't in favor of Kahrs. Don't you have to replace the recoil spring very regularly on a Kahr, and the whole gun isn't really intended t fire that many rounds?

I think if you're going to compare Kahr to something, it should be similarly sized guns like Kel-Tec, Skyy & Rohrbaugh.

Nomad, 2nd
May 16, 2007, 11:02 PM
Kahr DOES provide a fired case with each gun.

They suck, the 'customer service' sucks, their 'gunsmiths' suck, and their warrenty sucks.

POS all around.

I am no fan of Glocks (carry a 1911) but I'll take a Glock over a Kahr ANY DAY!

Geister
May 16, 2007, 11:03 PM
I haven't heard good things about the Kahr's trigger pull, but I've never fired one. Can someone enlighten me?

Nomad, 2nd
May 16, 2007, 11:06 PM
Extra long, bad revolver with a LOOONG reset.

Feel it, it's hard to describe.

Sistema1927
May 16, 2007, 11:08 PM
Kahr is one of those brands that folks either love or hate. I have quit arguing with the nay sayers, but continue to pocket carry a PM9 everyday.

I also own Glocks, and there is a place for both (and for all other makes).

Jorg Nysgerrig
May 16, 2007, 11:13 PM
having worked in 2 gunshops, i can say that most gun shops do NOT carry KAHR guns

Two gunshops is not a very good sample size. Especially since I see them in most shops I frequent, which is more than 2. They are pretty common around here.

RNB65
May 16, 2007, 11:16 PM
I love my P9. I realize that the frame is a bit fragile and can't stand up to heavy use, but that's OK with me. I didn't buy it to be a range gun. It's an ideal lightweight carry gun that can be easily carried IWB, OWB, or in a kydex pocket holster. I feel plenty safe carrying 8rds of 9mm +P JHP. I take it to the range every couple of months and shoot 25 or so rounds thru it to stay familiar with the sight picture and the long, smooth trigger.

I had some FTF issues when it was new that required a trip back to Kahr. But it has fired reliably since Kahr returned it. I occasionally have failures to go fully into battery when dropping the slide from the open position, but a quick tap on the back of the slide closes it. When firing, it cycles perfectly every time with either ball or HP ammo.

I've thought about getting a G26 as a backup, but I like the P9 so much I really don't see the point of getting a Glock as it would just become another range gun.

Tecolote
May 16, 2007, 11:27 PM
Sorry, but I just don't like them. The ones I've tried had very snappy felt recoil and they were unreliable. To each his own.

glockarmourer40517
May 16, 2007, 11:33 PM
theres no doubt that a glock would outlive a karn in rounds fired...i dont really doubt that at all...in fact im sure of it.

yes, ive worked in 2 gunshops....but been in 100s, .....suffice to say, many dont carry a kahr.

*****You are right on polymer KAHR,...id never own one in 1000 years. theyre no darn good..........

Kahr cust service, out of 10 calls to 10 calls to glock.....was 3 to 1 BETTER than glocks service.

kahr was falling over itself to send me free stuff........ on mention of a small pit on my barrel...they didnt ask for the old one, or to SEE IT, but sent me a new barrel no questions.

Yes, Glock is doing itself disservice by not making a single stack 9mm and/or 40

they couldnt before because of import points...but now that GLOCK is making guns in Georgia (frame only), they CAN make a single stack micro gun.

glock is insane 100% crazy for not making a micro 9mm to date...im sure they will however.

broken Kahr extractor? ....ehh, so what, ive had 3 broken extractors on my glock , a hunk missing out of the claw....no big deal.

Kahr does have a more positive and voilent (reliable) extraction over a glock, however.

Kahr IS a more simple design than a glock, fewer parts as well.

Kahr trigger has smoother breakover than a factory glock......however i know how to soften both. no big deal.

briansp82593
May 16, 2007, 11:37 PM
for the love of god stop these ridiculous threads glock vs kahr no one cares because there are hundreds of these people will shoot what they want to shoot people will carry what they want to carry and people like me will still continue to post this
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/beretta96/search.gif

WeedWhacker
May 16, 2007, 11:40 PM
Any firearm with a "break-in" period gives me the willies.

Geister
May 16, 2007, 11:52 PM
Extra long, bad revolver with a LOOONG reset.

I definately won't pay $500+ for one. I looked at one last year but I just don't like DAO, except maybe as a back-up.

With a good belt and holster you don't really need a Kahr although sometimes a pocket gun does have its uses.

TC-TX
May 17, 2007, 12:48 AM
LOVE the Kahr P-Series! I carry the P40 and the PM40 for CCW and Duty. Incredibly reliable (100%) and Scarry Accurate!

Zundfolge
May 17, 2007, 01:05 AM
Any firearm with a "break-in" period gives me the willies.
Isn't that ALL of them?

obxned
May 17, 2007, 01:31 AM
I'm not overly fond of either, but both are very good guns. The choice has to be made by what suits the individual shooter.

Oleg Volk
May 17, 2007, 01:46 AM
Glock cannot import smaller guns due to GCA 1968.

CPshooter
May 17, 2007, 02:12 AM
The triggers are great... for their purpose. Personally, I don't want to carry a SA gun as my concealed carry weapon. The trigger pull is VERY smooth and nice... just a little long though. Definitely the best DAO trigger out there IMO. Obviously they make it like that on purpose to discourage an accidental discharge. Perfect trigger for carry purposes.

As far as reliability goes, the polymer framed Kahrs don't have much room to brag about reliability out of the box on average, but if you get a good one or get yours running (if its a lemon out of the box) you should be in the clear from then on. I'd carry a Kahr over a Glock any day of the week because of its incredible accuracy/size ratio. I would, however, choose to shoot a Glock over a Kahr at the range. There just isn't a gun that is built as perfectly for carry. They are so thin, light, accurate, and small overall that nothing can touch them when it comes to concealed carry. Sure a pocket gun like a KT is more concealable, but I like to carry something that feels and shoots like a real gun. As far as i know, KT has just as many reliability issues as Kahr does... plus the triggers SUCK and I can't hit crap with them.

To each their own.

270Win
May 17, 2007, 02:17 AM
Kahr DOES provide a fired case with each gun.

Then I stand corrected. I know there is SOME company, though, that won't do it. Kahr must have come up in the same conversation.

legion3
May 17, 2007, 05:22 AM
Simply too expensive for what you get

Geister
May 17, 2007, 05:30 AM
I don't want to carry a SA gun as my concealed carry weapon

I'm the opposite. In a self-defense situation I don't want to mess with a heavy, rough trigger. I want a smooth, consistent trigger that's not too heavy.

I don't really want a trigger that's so heavy it prevents AD because the way I see it, I keep my finger off of the trigger until I'm ready to shoot.

That said, I wouldn't want a trigger lighter than a Glock without a safety.

Ala Dan
May 17, 2007, 07:27 AM
Right now, we are just gett'in to stocking a few Kahr's. I have on hand
at this time, a few CW9's and more CW40's. I have a CW9 for my very
own use; and I find it too be a great little CCW piece, weighing only
18.5 ozs unloaded. ;) :D

CleverNickname
May 17, 2007, 10:52 AM
Glock cannot import smaller guns due to GCA 1968.

Correct. IIRC the G26 makes the bare minimum number of points to be imported. However, Glock has started making some G17's in the US, so if they wanted to make non-importable models they already have production facilities here.

CPshooter
May 17, 2007, 11:12 AM
I'm the opposite. In a self-defense situation I don't want to mess with a heavy, rough trigger. I want a smooth, consistent trigger that's not too heavy.

I don't really want a trigger that's so heavy it prevents AD because the way I see it, I keep my finger off of the trigger until I'm ready to shoot.

That said, I wouldn't want a trigger lighter than a Glock without a safety.

Then you obviously haven't tried pulling a Kahr trigger. Smooth and consistent are the first two words that come to mind with this gun. Half the reason people praise the Kahrs for accuracy is due to this amazing DAO trigger. It is the furthest thing from heavy and rough as you can get. In fact, I'd say it feels lighter and smoother than a Glock trigger. Of course, you can modify Glock triggers to be even lighter w/ a new connector, and they obviously have a shorter SA-type reset compared to the long DAO reset of a Kahr (better for quicker follow-up shots), but overall the Kahr trigger is smoother and better feeling out of the box. The actual shape and ergonomics of the Kahr trigger also blow away the Glocks. A modified Glock trigger pull performs great, but still feels like absolute crap on your finger...especially with that poorly designed trigger safety. At least Springfield Armory knew how to improve the trigger safety design with the XD. I've owned a G19 for plinking and a G27 for carry purposes, but sold them both because there are better options IMO. Still can't argue their reliability though..Glock is top notch along with Sig, CZ, etc.

If you prefer SA, I'd understand, but Kahr does offer a GREAT trigger pull for DAO. Best of both worlds IMO.... buttery smooth, long DAO trigger w/ a surprise break at the end = great accuracy.

Dravur
May 17, 2007, 12:52 PM
Look, buy whatever you want.

Personally, I am not a huge Kahr fan, I dont like there Ergos and they are whippy, IMO. Take it for what I charged you for it.

And I have not worked at any gun shops, but have talked to several about Kahr's and the answer is.... They are simply too hard to sell to justify the cabinet space.

again, IMO, they are overpriced for what you get. When a gun shop can fill a case with Glocks and know he will sell them in a matter of months, or he can put in a stack of Kahrs and dust them off every few months, which would he rather do?

From what I was told, dealing with Kahr to get a supply of the guns was just too much trouble and a waste of space. They will happily order you one, but they are not carrying a stock of them.

romma
May 17, 2007, 01:06 PM
I just happen to be carrying the Ole' PM9 Kahr today... Carries well, shoots well, well built, light, always goes bang.

Carry what you want, I'll take the Khar among others.

BTW, I've warmed up quite a bit to Glocks lately.

atblis
May 17, 2007, 02:00 PM
No horse in this race (own neither).

I like the Kahrs. The triggers are decent.

What keeps me from buying one.
Price
Reports of issues.

It's actually the combination of the two. If polymer Kahrs had a better reputation, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to fork over the cash for one. I just cant bring myself to pay that much for a pistol that may or may not work.

If Glock comes out with a single stack 9x19, that's nice and slim...

Keltec PF9 is looking better and better.

glockarmourer40517
May 17, 2007, 03:42 PM
QUOTE::::
Glock cannot import smaller guns due to GCA 1968.
__________________
Oleg Volk



***********WRONG***************!

Glock IS MAKING GUNS IN THE USA NOW........OK?!?!?!?

GLOCK CAN MAKE A SMALL FRAME GUN...............Glock 17s are ALREADY being made in GEORGIA.

Glock ANNUAL last year was ABOUT how glock CAN NOW make injection frames in their GA factory now..........


Import points are irrelavent for a USA MADE GLOCK....... :scrutiny:

got it ?!?!?

glockarmourer40517
May 17, 2007, 03:47 PM
most people here complaining about KAHR's trigger, have never shot one.

so thats laughable nonsense. :scrutiny:


they thing "double action trigger" and think of an old smith and wesson...


Kahr trigger is better than a stock glock. ;)

Correia
May 17, 2007, 05:21 PM
And I have not worked at any gun shops, but have talked to several about Kahr's and the answer is.... They are simply too hard to sell to justify the cabinet space. I stock them at my store, and sell them just fine.

In fact, ready yourself for some blasphemy against your ineffectual Austrian gods, I stock about as many Kahrs as I do Glocks. And I sell more XDs, M&Ps, and even Sigpros than I do Glocks. :p :)

ABBOBERG
May 17, 2007, 05:32 PM
The fifth patent is related to Kahr's unique extractor design. The extractor's uniqueness is that its pivoting motion is limited in one direction to make "failures to extract" a near impossibility. (I BELIEVE THE MOST IMPORTANT PATENT).

I just read through the Kahr patent #5678340 and it appear that there is nothing in the Kahr extractor that prevents it from letting go early except spring force and friction, which is augmented by the steep extractor pivot angle. If indeed Kahr had a positive lock on the case flange with the extractor claw, then you would not be able to close the slide on an already-chambered round. The overtravel for the claw to go around the case flange has to be there; thus, there is no truly postive lock - all you have is spring force and friction. Like numerous other patents, this one is just blowing smoke.

bannockburn
May 17, 2007, 05:35 PM
I've got to side with my Glock on this one; by far the better trigger than the Kahr that I had. The problem with the Kahr was that it was not like a DA revolver; there was no stacking or felt resisitance when you pulled it through what seemed to be an eternally long distance until it finally went "bang". I could never develop any sort of rhythm or consistency while I was shooting. I also had my doubts about the overall durability of the polymer frame, (mine was a CW40), because at some time a piece of the polymer became wedged near the slide stop spring and caused the slide to hold open after every shot. I did like the concept and concealability of the design, it's just the overall product fell short of being the ideal concealed carry weapon.

iostorm
May 17, 2007, 05:36 PM
I am totally happy with my PM9, Great trigger, unbelieveable accuracy (downright weird how accurate it is) and absolutely flawless operation thru 250+ rounds.

springmom
May 17, 2007, 06:15 PM
You know, y'all, if you don't feed the troll it will go away....

Springmom

denfoote
May 17, 2007, 07:49 PM
broken Kahr extractor? ....ehh, so what, ive had 3 broken extractors on my glock , a hunk missing out of the claw....no big deal.

I am one of the few who have suffered a broken extractor on his MK9!! :eek:

I contacted Kahr and they were so flabergasted that they sent me an entire assembly free of charge!!! :what::what:

I'm not sure what caused the breakage, but I strongly suspect the Wolf ammo I was shooting sometime beforehand!!

The only reason why I'm not carrying it is because of a night sight failure. I have ordered and gotten replacements and only await the time to make a trip into my gunsmith to achieve the changeout!! ;)

RM
May 17, 2007, 08:57 PM
I owned two Kahrs. My experience leads me to repeat the previous sage words of Nomad:

"They suck, the 'customer service' sucks, their 'gunsmiths' suck, and their warrenty sucks."

Joe the Redneck
May 17, 2007, 08:59 PM
I was just wondering, that whole thing about the Moonies owning the company that makes the Kahr, was tha just an urban myth?

I agree, shoot what you like. I like my Glock and my Kel Tec but I'm not going to pee on anyone's choice. Whatever works for you.

Joe

RNB65
May 17, 2007, 09:30 PM
The founder, CEO, and chief gun designer of Kahr Arms is Justin Moon, son of the infamous Reverend Moon.

WeedWhacker
May 18, 2007, 05:42 AM
Any firearm with a "break-in" period gives me the willies.
Isn't that ALL of them?

Not Glocks.

Not Ruger revolvers.

Not IWI Jericho 941s.

Not Browning Buckmarks.

Not IMI Galils.

Not North American Arms revolvers.


... and those are just the ones I've personally shot "new" at some point.

Colt
May 18, 2007, 11:12 AM
I've owned 2 Kahrs.

PM9 stainless, with white dots. Shot fine out of the box, but it was subject to a recall, so I sent it in. Took forever to get back. (6+ weeks is forever to me) Shot fine when it came back, but Kahr's handling of the recall left a bad taste in my mouth, and I didn't want a company with such poor customer service for my carry gun. I sold it a few weeks later.

I tried a few other carry guns over the next 18 months, but none had such a good balance of size/power/accuracy as the PM9. After hearing that customer service had improved (from various sources) I ended up buying another PM9 with black matte finish and night sights. Shot fine right out of the box, not subject to any recalls. I've been carrying it since.

The accuracy of the PM9 is unbelievable.

Johannes_Paulsen
May 19, 2007, 07:39 AM
Joe the Redneck:

It is not technically true that the Unification Church ("The Moonies") own Kahr. Kahr Arms is owned by Saello, Inc. (http://www.saeilo-smi.com/greeting.html) Kook-Jin "Justin" Moon is the head of Saello. Justin runs Kahr through Saello, and is also responsible for designing the Kahr firearms.

Justin, however, is also the son of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, the head of the Unification Church, and a member of that Church. (See this interview with Massad Ayoob. (http://www.kahr.com/review_ahg_1001.html))

Obviously, Justin started Kahr at a young age, and it's evident that he had some backing from his wealthy father. There are also reports in the popular press (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/march99/moon10.htm) that the elder Moon exercises influence over the way things are run at Kahr. For what it's worth, the elder Moon has a more direct role in several other companies, including the conservative (and pro-RKBA) Washington Times, and (according to the Second Amendment Foundation,) a company that, in 1999, leased a building to the BATF (http://saf.org/pub/rkba/hindsight/hs040199.html).

The whole "Unification" religion seems a little weird to me (but then again most religions seem that way to me.) What, I think, matters is this:

1.) Kahr makes a good pistol, no matter how you slice it (I just bought one myself.)

2.) The Unification Church and the Moon family are strong supporters of the right to keep & bear arms.

3.) Although I feel a little odd about the Unification Church, it's not like their adherents are running around bombing schools (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=nation_world&id=5280771), beheading people (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EF28Df02.html), and treating women in a barbaric manner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fRCZL6y3ec), like some other, more "mainstream" religions I could mention.... ;)

Live and let live, eh?

Glockman17366
May 19, 2007, 07:56 AM
I'm pretty sure several of the folks who responded to this thread never shot a Kahr...

I've got an MK9. This is a very sweet little gun. The only downside (to me) is the weight, considering the size.
Now that I've found a holster I like for this gun (FINALLY!!), I've taken to carrying it frequently.

As far as break in...anything made of metals will require a break in of some sort (your car's engine, for example). At least Kahr was honest enough to admit it.
Can't say anything about the polymer Kahrs...never handled one.

Johannes_Paulsen
May 19, 2007, 10:17 AM
Glockman,

I just got an MK9 a week or two ago. What holster are you using? Still shopping around for one.

RNB65
May 19, 2007, 04:25 PM
Take a look at Milt Sparks IWB holsters. They are superb. I carry my P9 in a Milt Sparks Heritage holster. The only downsides are the cost $100+ and the current wait time is at least 6 months.

http://www.miltsparks.com/

Kimber1911_06238
May 19, 2007, 04:29 PM
I've only shot 2 KAHR's....but i absolutely hated the trigger. I'd choose a glock over a KAHR

glockarmourer40517
May 19, 2007, 05:10 PM
as i said from the beginning, and which many above posters confirm.....the Polymer KAHRs are outright lemons with triggers. :D

sorry, i wont buy a gun which has parts GLUED in it from the factory (aka polymer KAHR). :scrutiny:


in response to the above poster, yup, the MK9 is a sweet little gun, awesome indeed. :D

however a known problem with ALL METAL KAHRs, is that the grip screws back out when shooting them.......there are LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of accounts of this from all-metal KAHR owners, .....answer: locktite the grip screws in.

my 3 K40 Kahrs are awesome, petite little flawless guns, very very concealable, and more reliable than anything else out there, except a glock..

but, glock doesnt make any such super petite gun as a MK9, or MK40, or even a K40. ....or even a K9.......

konradh
May 19, 2007, 05:14 PM
I have a Kahr P9 and PM9. A few other people I know tried mine and bought Kahrs as well.

My experience has been 100% reliability and great accuracy.

Reasons I bought this over a Glock: (1) Slimmer and easier to conceal. (2) Polymer versions are very lightweight (lighther than a G26). (3) Glock finger grooves don't fit my hand right.

The Kahr trigger feels like a highly tuned revolver, like a custom Colt Python. (Kahrs of the last few years have the Elite trigger which is better than the original.) Some people like a double-action trigger and some don't. For me, it is a good balance of smooth operation with security against accidental discharge. I think the Glock 5-lb triggers are scary, but lots of them are in service with no problem.

Negatives about the P9 and PM9 for me: extensive firing (200+ rounds) cuts open a small spot at the base of my thumb. Maybe my skin is sensitive or my thumb is oddly shaped since I have not heard this complaint from others who fire Kahrs.

Other factors that can be negatives or positives: (1) The magazine springs are very strong which gives great reliability and long life but makes them tough to load. Also, the top round can pop out when the magazine is carried in the pocket without a case. (2) The PM9 has very strong recoil springs so it is hard to rack the slide for people with weak hands or arthritis.

I have never had a malfunction with a Kahr. (I have had malfunctions with eery other brand of autoloader I've ever owned, although, in fairness to North American Arms, their pistols were 100% reliable after they changed magazine manufacturers.) I think a 200-round break-in is prudent for ANY autoloader--especially one that is built to tight tolerances.

One advantage of Glocks: their enormous popularity makes it simple to find holsters, accessories, and service.

RNB65
May 19, 2007, 06:19 PM
Negatives about the P9 and PM9 for me: extensive firing (200+ rounds) cuts open a small spot at the base of my thumb. Maybe my skin is sensitive or my thumb is oddly shaped since I have not heard this complaint from others who fire Kahrs.

It's fairly common. The top left corner of the backstrap rubs a serious blister next to the thumb knuckle and can take the skin right off. Stick a band-aid or piece of athletic tape on that spot prior to shooting and you won't have a problem. Problem solved.

For self defense shooting, I like the Kahr trigger much more than the Glock 26 trigger. Some people like it, some people don't. Too each his own.

The Lone Haranguer
May 19, 2007, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Colt:
... but none had such a good balance of size/power/accuracy as the PM9.
Agreed. There is just nothing else quite like it on the market today.
Originally posted by RNB65:
The top left corner of the backstrap rubs a serious blister next to the thumb knuckle and can take the skin right off.
Oddly, my E9 (a discontinued "economy" version of the K9) does that if I use a straight-thumbs grip (which puts my hand higher), but my PM9 does not.

One thing the PM (and other Kahrs) could use is having the sharp corners of that slide stop rounded off.

Charles S
May 19, 2007, 06:51 PM
First let me say that I think that the Glock 23 might be the best balance of power, concealability, reliability and durability ever conceived.

However, for carry, give me a Khar.

The top left corner of the backstrap rubs a serious blister next to the thumb knuckle and can take the skin right off.

I shot my Khar K9 in a tactical handgun course in which I shot about 2000 rounds over a week. The gun was flawless, accurate, and I love it.

I will say I had trouble with my right hand for the next several days. I had a blister on the web of my hand and at the base of my thumb, my hand was also very sore (I might just be a wimp). I believed I should shoot what I carry and I have no regrets, but I must say it is much more comfortable to shoot a large gun for a 5 day handgun course.

I really do like the Khar ergonomics, size, thickness, reliability, y, and accuracy. Great guns.

full metal
May 19, 2007, 07:28 PM
had a khar good shooter hated the long trigger pull on it i could not get over that loooong trigger pull every time i had to get rid of it.

.cheese.
May 19, 2007, 07:36 PM
I used to think the same as the OP, until my PM9 turned into a nightmare after 1000 rounds. Then the customer service was a problem, their service department was a problem, their gunsmiths were a problem, and everything was just a problem..... Say what you want about Glock, but I've never had a gun go back out of my 5 Glocks.

.cheese.
May 19, 2007, 07:38 PM
glockarmourer40517 - my understanding is that the frames are made in the US largely, but all slides are still made in Austria, hence why every single one still says "Made in Austria"

MEH
May 19, 2007, 07:50 PM
How would you guys say the Kahr K9 compares to the HK P7 in reliability and durability?

EDIT: I know this is Kahr vs Glock but I just looked at the P7 and K9 at a gun show and didn't really feel like starting a new thread.

VARifleman
May 19, 2007, 09:57 PM
Glock cannot import smaller guns due to GCA 1968.
As I recall, the GCA adresses a number of issues with design, but on size, it addresses length and height, but not width which is the complaint with glocks. It also adresses weight, although that can be added as needbe.

Texshooter
May 19, 2007, 11:16 PM
Glocks feel too fat in my hand, and yet the Kahr (in Polymer) feels too small.

I still like certain things about both, but at this moment the Kahr price tag is a little much for me.

glockarmourer40517
May 19, 2007, 11:33 PM
QUOTE:
glockarmourer40517 - my understanding is that the frames are made in the US largely, but all slides are still made in Austria, hence why every single one still says "Made in Austria"


Nope........... G17s and another model ( i forget which) doesnt say "made in austria" on it..... despite the fact that the slide and internal parts still are.

the frame is the only part that is the GUN at any rate....any 10 year old can order a slide and all parts minus the frame from anywhere..

although glock stoped that, .... the "glockmeister" got in trouble with the ATF and glock for selling glock frames and parts (legally of course).

the ATF jumped his stuff for selling "do it yourself glock pieces-parts"

which is stupid, everyone on earth does the same for 1911 parts......glocks shouldnt be any different. the ATF is clueless. :scrutiny:

Mr. gaston is saving $$$ by installing an injection machine in GA instead of importing the guns from austria.. not to mention making his mark for the next military gun, which is likely.

Yes, my KAHR used to bite the bottom of my thumb, rubed the skin off it at the knuckle.

dremmel tool fixed that problem :D

kgriggs8@yahoo.com
May 20, 2007, 03:05 PM
I own two K-9s and I love them. I have owned the plastic kahrs and I hated them. They are not in the same class as the all steel guns.

Glocks are good but they are so fat that I won't carry one. If maybe someone at Glock would pull their head out of their butt and make a single stack that was actually compact, they would put Kahr out of business as well as a bunch of other makers.

Johannes_Paulsen
May 20, 2007, 08:27 PM
Take a look at Milt Sparks IWB holsters. They are superb. I carry my P9 in a Milt Sparks Heritage holster. The only downsides are the cost $100+ and the current wait time is at least 6 months.

RNB65,

Ouch, that's a little more than I was hoping to spend. Actually, I'm not that interested in IWB. I got the MK9 because of its concealability, and my job/lifestyle will probably not allow me to make many wardrobe adjustments to carry IWB. So it will likely be pocket carry for the most part, with OWB for those times when I can get away with wearing a coat. I just got my concealed-carry license approved, too, so starting on Monday I'll be able to carry. I picked up a cheap Uncle Mike's OWB holster just so I can carry if I want, but I'm definitely looking for suggestions on good pocket and OWB holsters for the Kahr.

BTW, no one seems to like the "wallet" pocket holster sold on the Kahr website (http://www.kahrshop.com/cgi-bin/itemdetail.asp?itmid=32)? I've talked to a couple of people who gave negative feedback--anyone have a good experience with this one?

And, for OWB, does anyone have experience with carrying Kahrs in Fobus holsters?

Thanks in advance.

RNB65
May 20, 2007, 09:24 PM
I use a Fist kydex pocket holster to pocket carry my P9. It's very well made, weighs practically nothing, and works equally well with everything from dress pants to Dockers to blue jeans. The gun just disappears into the pocket. And it only costs 1/3 what the Milt Sparks holster cost. :)

http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/k1/k5.htm

orionengnr
May 20, 2007, 10:20 PM
I've owned 2 Kahrs.
PM9 stainless, with white dots. Shot fine out of the box, but it was subject to a recall, so I sent it in. Took forever to get back. (6+ weeks is forever to me) Shot fine when it came back, but Kahr's handling of the recall left a bad taste in my mouth, and I didn't want a company with such poor customer service for my carry gun. I sold it a few weeks later.
I tried a few other carry guns over the next 18 months, but none had such a good balance of size/power/accuracy as the PM9. After hearing that customer service had improved (from various sources) I ended up buying another PM9 with black matte finish and night sights. Shot fine right out of the box, not subject to any recalls. I've been carrying it since.
The accuracy of the PM9 is unbelievable.


Now that is funny, because I bought it from him. :)
I've had it ever since, and it is less than 12" from me as I type this.

The Glocks I once owned are long gone, the S&W j-frames I owned are long gone, but the PM9 sits close by my side. There are a lot of reasons for that.

It is the size of a j-frame (much smaller/lighter than a Glock).
It shoots better than either (in my hands at least).
It has been stone reliable.
It carries and conceals in a pocket, which a Glock cannot, and a j-frame can...barely.

It's big brother, the P45 is my winter buddy.

For holsters, check with Nate at UBG holsters. He makes a very nice IWB alternative to the Milt Sparks VMII (at slightly more than 1/2 price). I ordered one of each in late January. Received the UBG holster in February. Still waiting on the Milt Sparks holster... :rolleyes:

Want pics? PM me.

glockman19
May 20, 2007, 10:38 PM
As my governor Arnold an Austrian would say, "you must have the hands of a girley man", if the glock is to big for your grip.:D:evil::D:p

I prefer the simplicity and reliability of the J-frame over a pocket carry auto not to mention a great lifetime warranty and smooth trigger. And as far as the sub compact Glocks I'll take them over a Kahr. Ever try to fire the Kahr from your jacket pocket? I'd rather not risk the jam of an auto and shoot the hammerless 442/642/340/640.

MEH, Yes I like the KH's:) too

innerpiece
May 22, 2007, 03:41 PM
my Kahr is great, in all ways.. and flawless!
Great trigger, accurate, reliable, and I work good with it.

glocks and kahrs are like apples n oranges imo.


ip.

glockarmourer40517
May 22, 2007, 07:10 PM
youre right, glocks and kahrs are generally 'apples and oranges'

i should have said "kahrs better than packing a 'compact' glock ", ..such as a G26 or the G36 (which is a lemon).


QUOTE::>
How would you guys say the Kahr K9 compares to the HK P7 in reliability and durability?<<<


............ive owned 3 P7M8's.... despite being stupid-expensive....ive had several jams out of my P7M8s....besides, its not made anymore......parts were stupid expensive......

and worse still, the gas piston made the upper part of the trigger guard hot as hell after 40 shots.....hot AS HELL. :evil:

everyone praised the P7 for its "great accuracy", but its not that spectacular....i got better accuracy out my Kahr than out of my (former) P7M8 HK. :barf:

in the micro size gun Dept. the MK9 and MK40 are unmatched by anything else out there........well, really, there is nothing else out there that size....so. :scrutiny:

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