auto calibers in a revolver


PDA






Bezoar
May 16, 2007, 11:08 PM
What is the benefit of using a cartridge designed for a semi automatic pistol, in a revolver?

Sure having two guns using the same ammo can be nice, but if you have to remove/decase/relaod/reinsert a moon clip every time you want to top off the cylinder, what have you gained tactically?

over just having a 38sp with speedloader and a few loose cartridges in a pouch?

If you enjoyed reading about "auto calibers in a revolver" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
MutinousDoug
May 16, 2007, 11:27 PM
And the difference between a speedloader and a moon clip would be what? You haven't "gained" anything. Have you lost anything?
Personally, I'd like to see a revolver with a frame designed for a 9mm or 38 Super from the ground up, but I'm not holding my breath.

PH/CIB
May 16, 2007, 11:54 PM
I only have speedloaders, but I believe I have heard that moon clips are faster to eject and reload than speedloaders. Don't know if it is true or not, and it would only amount to probably fractions of a second, I would quess.

Geister
May 16, 2007, 11:56 PM
Moonclips are faster but they are flimsier.

I'd buy a revolver in .45 ACP if I could find one as easily as a .357 Magnum.

bluetopper
May 17, 2007, 12:00 AM
I am most anxious and should get it in this week a Taurus 455 45acp revolver w/6.5" barrel I bought on an online auction. I want it strictly as a target gun and not a CCW however. I'll see how accuracy compares to my Dan Wesson Pointman 1911.

Also have on layaway a Taurus 905 9mm revolver. A simple wheel gun my wife can use when I'm out of town for protection. Plus I'm well stocked in 9mm ammo and don't have to buy higher priced wheel gun ammo.

S&Wfan
May 20, 2007, 12:43 AM
Hi,

My favorite defensive-caliber wheelguns are all moonclipped ones. Moonclips are ridiculously cheap and a bunch of 'em can be had . . . and loaded ahead of time for a quite impressive amount of fast-loading ammo.

Yes, the moon-clipped revolvers are much faster to reload, so fast that some handgun competitions have moved to eliminate the moonclipped revolvers from shooting against the slower-to-load speedloader revolvers!

My favorite is a chopped barrel Model 25-2 S&W in .45ACP. Here's another cool moonclipped revolver that I own, in .40 Short & Wimpy. Only a few hundred of these revolvers were made, before the competition rule changes.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/246/246167/folders/233364/19746541a.JPG

Deer Hunter
May 20, 2007, 10:13 AM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/killer56/DSC02376.jpg

My most fun gun I own. S&W 625 with a 5" barrel, topped with a Millet red dot. Loading it is really, really, REALLY easy with moonclips. I go through a lot of ammo because of this.

Shoots softly and hits what you set it on, every time. It's very, very accurate.

mavracer
May 20, 2007, 10:23 AM
I own both a S&W 442 and a Taurus 905 love both. I have noticed one minor advantage of the 9mm. on a snub with the short ejector rod it will compleatly eject 9mm but not 38 spcl.

Dirty Bob
May 22, 2007, 09:58 AM
In a single action revolver, an autopistol cartridge is no big deal, since the ejector rod doesn't use a rim to eject the empties. Lots of people have reported great results with .45ACP Blackhawks, and ammo is convenient to carry in a 1911 magazine. An additional advantage of revolvers is that you can use bullet designs that won't feed in an autopistol. Plus, they're fun! :D

Regards,
Dirty Bob

shoff535
May 22, 2007, 04:00 PM
As others have said, moonclips are readily available, and cheap. I preload ten or so before I head to the range. I like the 625 SW because it shoots sooo nice.

Snarlingiron
May 22, 2007, 04:11 PM
I have a Stainless Taurus 905 that I am very fond of. Perfect compliment to my Glock 19. It is what I carry when I am "not carrying". I just drop it in my jeans pocket in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster, and it just sort of disappears. I rarely carry extra anything with it. At the range, I usually fire it a few times, but after 25 or 30 rounds my hand starts to hurt. I find the recoil pretty snappy. I went on Taurus' website, ordered 10 spare moon clips, and figure I am good to go for the forseeable future. For me with the Glock, the Taurus, and a Hi Power, having everything in the same calibre is pretty handy.

highrider
May 22, 2007, 08:14 PM
New guy here. Just discovered THR and have been enjoying lurking and just cruising through the threads. Great forum. I picked up the new toy below over the weekend and I can't wait to get it to the range. It should be a hoot to shoot. To me "tactical" doesn't come into play - I have my Sigs for that. This one is strictly for the range, not for carry. I have to confess that I bought this gun simply because she looked so sweet! ;) I've always been a semi-auto kind of guy, but when I saw this beauty it was love at first sight.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/highrider98/IMG_2754.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/highrider98/IMG_2758.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/highrider98/IMG_2772.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/highrider98/IMG_2766.jpg

P. Plainsman
May 22, 2007, 08:22 PM
Also, factory 9mm is running up to 50% cheaper than .38 Special (let alone .357 Magnum) these days; and .45 ACP is still cheaper than factory .44 Magnum, .44 Special, or (non-cowboy-squib-load) .45 Colt. And there's lots of different high-tech defensive bullet options in 9mm and .45 ACP (though, admittedly, also in .38/.357).

Thus, if you want a big-bore revolver for defense and/or range fun, then a .45 ACP sixgun with moonclips has much to offer.

I want a 5" S&W 625 with a red-dot sight like Deer Hunter! Man, that looks like a hoot.

AJAX22
May 22, 2007, 08:25 PM
.32 auto is rumored to work well in nagant revolvers too, if you're looking for an inexpensive plinker.

yhtomit
May 22, 2007, 09:34 PM
highrider -- beautiful gun, beautiful shots of it!

What model is that exactly? (Does it have a numeric designation, like the 625?) I have a 625 in stainless, and love it -- but that one is a peach.

If you don't mind, could you intensify my envy by saying where and for how much you acquired that treasure? :)

timothy

yhtomit
May 22, 2007, 09:50 PM
Bezoar:

A couple of advantages, IMO, which is why I like revolvers in auto cartridges.

1) I like to have several guns, but just a few calibers. Simpler to stock (esp. for people like me, whose stock is generally NOT a basement full of ammo) in that it's more convenient to have 1000 rounds of 9mm (for instance) which will be used in a few autoloaders and a revolver than to have 3 kinds of ammunition in smaller quantities to feed each of them.

If you have a personal bunker, and enough ammo to do complex arbitrage with small South American countries, this argument holds less weight :) It would be *nice* in a sense to have plenty of time, money and space to have a dozen or more ammo types well stocked, but I don't at the moment.

2) I like the .45ACP cartridge -- I won't start a religious war over the best ammo type in the world, because it's not that I *dislike* any particular other caliber, there's plenty of love to go around ;) -- and it's a pleasant intermediate cartridge; more oomph than 9mm or 38sp, noticeably less than a normal or hot .357 load. So, at least in my 625, I think that's a good reason :)

Btw, you mention the hassle of moonclips. I have some good news to report on that front; my moonclips were a frustrating disaster for the first few times I used them, but they've become just a shade looser (and I've become a shade better at understanding the angles and pressures to actually get cartridges in and cases out) -- the last time I loaded and unloaded it was nearly pleasant ;) Once they're loaded up, moonclips are really great -- I wish I could reload an autopistol so quickly! I resorted to profanity, violence, and leather gloves the first few times I loaded / unloaded them -- was convinced either my moonclips or my ammo were defective (or at least cursed). Now, I'd say it's about as difficult (that is, the same amount of hand-muscle force) as loading a typical autopistol magazine, but it doesn't get harder with each round, but rather easier.

(There's a gun design I saw the other day, in a book I did not purchase, which reminds me of this a bit; it's an autopistol where one grip panel comes off to reveal the mag area; the cartridges are laid in there, then the spring beneath is tensioned (I think in the process of re-attaching the grip panel), so there's no tedious thumbing-down-pressing-in reloading process.)

Cheers,

timothy

Geister
May 22, 2007, 10:03 PM
I'd be a bigger fan of the .45 ACP if it could easily go another 100 to 200 fps.

Speaking of which, is it possible to load a .45 ACP +P in a .45 ACP revolver and have less worries than using the round in a .45 autoloader?

Bob M.
May 22, 2007, 10:12 PM
one of the new Smiths. Model 22.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=53950&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

Dirty Bob
May 22, 2007, 10:55 PM
I'd be a bigger fan of the .45 ACP if it could easily go another 100 to 200 fps.

Speaking of which, is it possible to load a .45 ACP +P in a .45 ACP revolver and have less worries than using the round in a .45 autoloader?Perhaps, in a convertible Blackhawk, which is suitable for very powerful .45Colt handloads, but I don't think I'd try it in a Smith 25 or 1917.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

highrider
May 22, 2007, 11:43 PM
"highrider -- beautiful gun, beautiful shots of it!

What model is that exactly? (Does it have a numeric designation, like the 625?) I have a 625 in stainless, and love it -- but that one is a peach."

Timothy,
Bob M. is correct. Additional info sent via PM.

yhtomit
May 23, 2007, 12:03 AM
I'm hooked -- That one goes on the ever-longer, occasionally tapped-at wishlist ;)

Current production, even -- very nice.

timothy

20nickels
May 24, 2007, 11:39 PM
Although you can moonclip about any common revolver cartridge anymore, the short, fat calibers (9mm, .45ACP) reload very quickly. Something about larger torpedos going into larger holes. You can also use these guns without clips if you want, but it is nice to go to the range that you are charged by the hour at with a box of 300 rds that you loaded into clips in front of your TV. To get a relatively cheap, commonly available cartridge like .45ACP in an S&W N frame is a dream come true.

Nightcrawler
June 7, 2007, 11:42 PM
You can put all the +P you want through a current-production 625 and not worry about it. Remember that they convert these guns to .460 Rowland, which has about 75% of the capabilities of .44 Magnum (rough guesstimate).

The current crop of S&W guns are quite well made in terms of durability. If you have an older gun, like a model 25, a Model of 1950, or (especially!) an M1917, avoid +P ammunition.

Revolver Ocelot
June 7, 2007, 11:55 PM
the sp101 is available in 9mm but to my understanding they are produced in small numbers just to meet the small demend.

10-Ring
June 8, 2007, 01:03 AM
I've shot a few wheelguns in 9mm & 45 acp and must say they were very nice. There is just something about shooting a quality wheelgun that needs to be experienced to be understood ;)

Green Lantern
June 18, 2007, 09:58 PM
I certainly want to own a wheelgun (again) someday, only in a "defensive" caliber.

I own a Glock 19, so I already have a bit of 9mm on hand...

And like yhtomit, I also don't have a basement full of ammo. Heck, I don't even have a BASEMENT! :( So multiple guns fed by the same caliber would be nice for me, too...

Not that I'd plan on using it for my primary CCW, but is it viable to be able to carry moon clips for reloads "under fire?" Maybe stick them in a rigid speedloader pouch, or something?

Nomad, 2nd
June 18, 2007, 11:09 PM
They make 1/2 and 1/4 moon clips (Anyone know of a source of 1/4 moon .45ACP clips PLEASE tell me. My buddy won't give any up)

But 2 moon clips will fit in a speed loader pouch...

Photoman
June 18, 2007, 11:22 PM
"What is the benefit of using a cartridge designed for a semi automatic pistol, in a revolver?"

One of the big advantages: positive ejection of all six spent cases. No chance of one getting stuck under the ejection star.

One big ~dis~advantage: the short brass is very prone to depositing unspent powder granules under the ejection star. At best, you end up with a very heavy double action. At worst, the gun is tied up.

Also, the moon clip revolvers are more prone to ignition problems in my experience.

StrawHat
June 18, 2007, 11:30 PM
One of the biggest advantages of moon clips and auto cartridges is shooting these!

sargenv
June 19, 2007, 12:10 AM
Also, the moon clip revolvers are more prone to ignition problems in my experience.

I've only run into this if there was an action job done on the gun in question to lighten the trigger pull. Before I had an action job done on my 627, it would ignite any factory or reloaded ammo, after the action job, it would ignite Winchester primers 99% of the time, and Federal's every time.

My 610 on the other hand will only ignite Federal primers reliably, and Winchesters about 80% of the time. Though everyone who's fired it have commented positively on the very smooth action that it has.

I have 13 pound mainsprings in both and those are cranked down a bit to aid in a lighter pull. If it were a carry gun, I'd no doubt crank them up all the way and blue lock tite them in place but then the 610 would make a lousy carry gun with it's 6.5" full underlug barrel. It weighs too dang much! :D

Photoman
June 19, 2007, 09:53 AM
sargenv: That has been my experience also until I bought a new 325PD. It's stone stock and has ignition problems. Not sure if I'll send it back or just sell it.

JoeHatley
June 19, 2007, 11:19 AM
They make 1/2 and 1/4 moon clips

I think you ment 1/3 moon clips. Ranch Products or Midway USA.


Also, the moon clip revolvers are more prone to ignition problems in my experience.

My 325PD has had the strain screw shortened about 1/16" and it's still 100% reliable. You may want to check firing pin protrusion and/or headspace.

Joe

Jorg Nysgerrig
June 19, 2007, 11:48 AM
what have you gained tactically?

Psst, it's not always about being tactical...

Euclidean
June 19, 2007, 11:53 AM
http://i9.tinypic.com/4i3g76v.jpg

Any questions?

20nickels
June 19, 2007, 12:45 PM
JoeHatley, Greetings from across the Missouri. Do you know if these 1/3 clips from Ranch fit the newer 625's or the older model guns. As I understand it the chargeholes are spaced differently. I have conacted both Midway and Ranch with NO response. Thanks, Nickels.

YosemiteSam357
June 19, 2007, 01:22 PM
Well, I just picked up a .45LC/.45ACP convertible so I can shoot boomers and cheap stuff (relatively speaking) out of the same gun.

Now to pick up those .45LC reloading supplies...

-- Sam

20nickels
June 19, 2007, 01:33 PM
Yosemite, how's accuracy with ACP?

mavracer
June 19, 2007, 02:05 PM
20 NICKELS,
1917 armys and 625 are interchangable with respect to moon clips

Vern Humphrey
June 19, 2007, 02:46 PM
The original reason for automatic cartridges in revolvers was simple -- ammunition resupply. In 1917 the US Army was struggling to build and equip a force to fight in France. We didn't have enough of anything, and adopted many "make do" items -- some of which, like the M1917 Enfield and the M1917 revolvers -- were really good ideas.

In the case of the revolver, the .45 automatic had shown itself to be an effective trench weapon, and Pershing wanted every combat soldier issued a .45 -- but only Springfield Armory and Colt made them.

On the other hand, both Colt and Smith & Wesson had production lines producing large revolvers -- but in rimmed revolver cartridges. The Army didn't want several different pistol cartridges. So Colt and S&W began working on chambering their revolvers for the .45 ACP. The long pole in the tent was ejection -- how do you eject a rimless cartridge from a revolver. S&W engineers came up with a brilliant solution -- the half-moon clip.

YosemiteSam357
June 19, 2007, 11:02 PM
Yosemite, how's accuracy with ACP?
I don't know yet. I'll let you know... :)

-- Sam

JoeHatley
June 20, 2007, 12:25 PM
Do you know if these 1/3 clips from Ranch fit the newer 625's or the older model guns.

Yes. The charge holes are in the same place. The extractor style has changed over the years, but that only effects full moon clips.

Joe

20nickels
June 20, 2007, 11:12 PM
Thanks Joe, I bought em'.

yhtomit
June 26, 2007, 10:44 PM
Euclidean wrote "Any questions?"

Yup :) Are those clips what came with your JM 625? Are they steel, or (I'm guessing) polymer? They sure look different than what I got with my 625 ...

timothy

TimboKhan
June 26, 2007, 10:51 PM
32 auto is rumored to work well in nagant revolvers too, if you're looking for an inexpensive plinker.

.32 Auto will work fine in a Nagant revolver, providing you purchase the .32 auto cylinder. It's not a super expensive upgrade, but you can't just load .32 auto into the normal Nagant cylinder and bang away, at least as far as I know...

Arcticfox
July 19, 2007, 01:44 AM
I'd like to own one, but I have a question. I don't understand how you load these guns without moon clips. What keeps the rimless bullet from falling into the cylinder if there is no clip?

Dirty Bob
July 19, 2007, 09:36 AM
I don't understand how you load these guns without moon clips. What keeps the rimless bullet from falling into the cylinder if there is no clip? The mouth of the case hits a shoulder in the cylinder, just like it does in the chamber of an autopistol. I think auto calibers like .45ACP and 10mm are especially great in single actions because the special cylinder and the regular ejector rod allow loading, firing and ejecting without any change from "regular" calibers like .357 Mag or .45 Colt. If anything, the rimless cartridges slide in and out of the cylinder easier, because there's no rim to catch on things. Try it, you'll like it!

Regards,
Dirty Bob

johndoe1027
July 19, 2007, 02:46 PM
Don't forget that if you have a 45acp revolver that you reload for, there's a monster known as the 45 Auto-Rim (AR) that is the exact same thing except it has a rim on the back that takes the place of the moonclip. For the reloaders you just have to buy another carrier plate and brass, no new dies.

At one time I dreamed about a 45acp snubbie 5 shot to carry then I realized that it would be bigger than my 3" 1911 so I stopped the dreaming. :( Would still be cool though.

Euclidean, my buddy has that exact same gun. Same grips and all. Calling him now to make sure it's still at his house. :neener: It's a sweet shooter for sure.

Vern Humphrey
July 19, 2007, 03:09 PM
Don't forget that if you have a 45acp revolver that you reload for, there's a monster known as the 45 Auto-Rim (AR) that is the exact same thing except it has a rim on the back that takes the place of the moonclip.
Yep, but I've scrounged thousands of pieces of .45 ACP brass at ranges. I've never found a single .45 Auto Rim case.

pinkymingeo
July 19, 2007, 04:38 PM
If you have ftf's in a 325PD, install a Cylinder&Slide extended firing pin. That'll fix it.

savage24
July 20, 2007, 06:14 AM
I'm new here, but I've been lurking for awhile.
I can't believe no one has mentioned the biggest advantage of shooting auto calibers in a revolver.........you don't have to search for your spent brass!:)
I just purchased a S&W 625 and will get it on Sunday - the pictures on this thread are killing me!

If you enjoyed reading about "auto calibers in a revolver" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!