[critter]

With all the riots in the news of late, makes me wonder. Suppose there is a real one in your neighborhood. Mob coming down the street destroying everything in their path. Turning over cars and burning them, throwing firebombs, breaking out windows-you name it.

You know that most insurance policies DO NOT cover damage in time of 'civil unrest'. Besides you value your own skin and the lives and health of your family.

How much can you LEGALLY do to defend yourself, family, home and property? (Hay, I KNOW what I'd LIKE to do-and MIGHT do.) Can you fire upon them if they are NOT carrying, displaying and using GUNS? Hay, they are ARMED with clubs, firebombs, etc. and you may legitimately FEAR for your life considering their demeanor and numbers.

What to do? Ideas and thoughts appreciated.

[jsalcedo]

You can defend your property and your life in some states.

You are required to run away if you can in other states.

There are a few states in which you are required to submit your life and property to the rioters for the common good and safety of the community.

[Tamara]

We don't get much in the way of riots 'round these parts.

A rampaging mob would be very lucky to even find our quiet little road... and very unlucky if they actually came down it.

[Mark Tyson]

I don't know anywhere that requires you to retreat from your home.

[Art Eatman]

Mark, there may have been changes in the law in the last 20 or so years, and I don't claim it to be fact: I have read that in one or two of the northeastern states, and possibly one or two in the midwest, one must retreat from violence, period. Exit your back door, if you must.

Even if it's not the law, some prosecutors seem to think it is or should be, based on court cases of which I've read where self-defense was the claim by the defendants in facing charges from manslaughter to murder.

Until you've spent some time studying the pertinent laws for your state, never, ever trust what you think you know.

:), Art

[Skunkabilly]

http://www.kang.org/sajin/riotrrhee.GIF

http://www.asianweek.com/2002_04_26/images/feature_riots_roof.jpg

http://www.kang.org/sajin/riotyouth.jpg
Dude! Finger off the trigger...

http://timmer.org/HISTORY_17B/PowerPoint/la_riots/slide27.jpg

[brownie0486]

Tamara: LMAO --

Art Eatman: you are correct. In Mass. for a short time during one of the gov terms he set the law to read that you had to use any and all means of escape before defending yourself. The "Castle doctrine".

He was one term and four years later it was changed back by the new gov. so that you could defend your family and inside your home anyway. I'm not sure what the civil riot statutes, if any exist say, but if it happened here at my home tonight or tomorrow I would not retreat from my property for anyones peace [ or should that be piece? ] while they are an immediate threat by their actions.

Your home has the high ground and is fortified to some extent which can be quickly upgraded at entrances. Why would I leave a fortified position with high ground?

Brownie

[popeye]

Skunk.... my man.....Are those not some Korean Americans defending their property in a Civil Unrest situation a couple yrs. ago. Or am I mistaken?

[Drjones]

Skunk: Are those actual pics from the '92 riots???

Whoa...

[Pilgrim]

It is best to read your state's penal code on the subject. In the example of California's penal code, defense of habitation against riot is covered. See situation "2" below.

197. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in any of the following cases:

1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
2. When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant
or engaged in mutual combat, must really and in good faith have endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed; or,
4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.

[Standing Wolf]

Not in my neighborhood! Anybody who'd try rioting in my neighborhood would walk home dead in P.D.Q. order.

[critter]

Come to think of it, I have never seen a serious riot in an area where there are a lot of 'good ole boys' who seriously practice their second ammendment freedoms.

[capt_happypants]

Assume that you will be held to the same standards of a self-defense shooting: do the individual(s) show Ability, Opportunity, and Intent?

First concern would be anyone who displays a firearm in a hostile manner.

Second concern would be anyone with a lit Molotov cocktail.

A single individual will have a difficult time defending against multiple rioters. If you can leave the situation, great. If not, organize neighbors and take up positions on top of buildings. Barricade the streets with whatever's available.

[Solinvictus70]

We had a near riot downtown at a music festival about two weeks ago because of a similar situation as in Michigan. It is getting ridiculous.

[Skunkabilly]

Skunk.... my man.....Are those not some Korean Americans defending their property in a Civil Unrest situation a couple yrs. ago. Or am I mistaken?

Yep, pulled them from another post.

I was wondering where my Korean friends were when they didn't show up for school that day.

Ahh April 29, 1992, the day that will live in infamy.

Parents didn't feel the need for us to be armed that day, or any other day :rolleyes: We were close enough to see the smoke but not close enough to smell it. Now if we just forget about it, there won't be any more race riots in LA even though they happen every 20-30 years. We'll be safe...we'll be safe...ohmmm.....

[Smoke]

Until you've spent some time studying the pertinent laws for your state, never, ever trust what you think you know

One sshould also spend an equal or greater time studying the character and personality, and legal history of the local Police, Judges, D.A, and potential jurors.

Ask yourself this: Even if the law allows me to defend my property, would a Jury view the law and what I did from the same point of view. I"m not sure I would trust a jury in this day and time to be rational or logical.....even here.

[KMKeller]

When I was very young and growning up in New Mexico, the neighbors (cowboys) were having a little party and a bunch of the local latinos wanted to come and join the fun (pick a fight). One Latino threw a bottle through the window of the screen door (glass in a cowboy's eye) and all heck broke loose. About 30 guys fighting, crossing over into our yard and bumping into my father's motorcycles. I remember my dad loading up a couple of GI .45s and some extra mags, going out on the front porch and setting a chair in the middle of the porch. The first time someone ventured on our side of the property line, my father put a round into the ground at his feet. He hurried back across the property line and for the rest of the brawl, if someone was knocked onto our property, someone would help him up, even if it was the person who knocked him down in the first place. Our property line was well defined.

Afterwards, the PD thanked my father for helping to "contain" the fights.

Personally, I was in LA for the South Central riots. I spent 4 days on my front porch with a loaded .44 magnum keeping people from doing harm to mine and my neighbors homes. This was in Encino, which was far removed from South Central. People were just determined to cash in on the fray and cause mischief. Typically, if they saw someone watching, they would leave, and only a couple of times did I have to show the weapon.

[UnknownSailor]

I'll never forget the '92 LA Riot either. I got a coupe of days of temp work out of it, as "security". I was working the Nordstrom distribution center in Ontario, by the airport.

[spartacus2002]

3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such person,

What about the lawful defense of your wife AND your mistress? :D Of course, if they get together, you might be defending yourself from them! :what:

[Mark Tyson]

My mistresses will be defended to the last drop of my blood.

"This we'll defend" indeed.

[dance varmint]

Arsonists attacking an occupied building can generally be shot. More likely, if I were watching a mini riot trying to overturn my car in front of my house, I'd discharge the bear spray. You can get these huge cans of OC from 9 to 16 oz. with a range of at least 30 feet.

[foghornl]

You wanna riot, loot & burn your own home/neighborhood? (Like in Benton Harbor, Mich. last week)? ?

Fine. Knock yourself out.


Wanna come down to my street & try that? ? ?

OK, but bring a couple of your best buds with large "Lawn & Leaf" bags to carry you out.....

Guy next door is a retired city PD detective. 2 doors down across the street is an active Deputy Sheriff, next to him is the National Guard armorer/markmanship trainer. Directly behind me is the armorer/sniper for another city PD.

And me? ? Well, I'm just a guy that has been the victim of violent crime, survived the riots in Memphis, TN after the murder of Dr. King, and I WILL defend my home and family at ALL COSTS.

[Kinsman]

LOVE that photo of the grinning American with the Mini defending his property.

[Mute]

I've got about a 1500 ft. line of sight to any incoming paths. I'm not particularly concerned.

[Skunkabilly]

LOVE that photo of the grinning American with the Mini defending his property.

Nah, that picture was taken at my last family barbecue :D

[moa]

Riots are no joke. If I remember correctly, during the 1992 LA riot, something like 52 people were killed and many injured. Some of the people murdered were killed at random.

Also, if I remember correctly, many of those Korean merchants defending their property ran out of ammunition. I get the impression their fire control discipline left a lot to be desired, even accidentally killing one of their own.

During the 1992 LA riots, many of the rioters, arsonists and looters were armed with firearms.

One of the big problems I have seen over the years regarding urban riots is the political leadership refuses to act effectively to stop the riots. They are afraid of the polilictal repercussions if they take tough police action that leads to the injury or death of their constituents. That means everybody is pretty much on their own.

I get the impression from the LA riot the Democratic Mayor Bradley refused to take effective action to stop the riots early on, and waited for Gov. Wilson and Pres. Bush (#41) to take action, both of whom were Republicans.

[rick newland]

I would be sitting on my front porch, shotgun in lap and M1-A on the side and politely say "I don't want to shoot you and you don't want to be dead". I have always been known to be very polite. :)

[Sgt]

MOA,

Why would Bradley have intervened....he helped set off the riots with his commentary immediately following the verdict in the Rodney King Trial. This gave him someone else to blame..."Darrel Gates" then L.A.'s Police Chief. I was there, trust me I remember. I was less than a mile from the fires and I saw all sorts of stupidity. It really turned into an excuse for anarchy, as I saw blonde blue eyed surfer types involved in some of the destruction. Of course they kept their little white rear ends far from south central...LOL! I was armed to the teeth with things the Kalifornia Legislature had deemed unnecessary and illegal, but fortunately, I never had to use them. Something about a Redneck looking white guy, with a Confederate Flag covering the rear window of his truck, must have tipped them off that I was armed :D Before our project got shut down (on the third day of rioting) I have to admit, that no matter what they said about race being the issue, the guy watching my back was Black and a finer human being there never was, or will be. Everyone of our people got out safe, because he and I made sure of it.

My prescription for riots? With a magazine of 30 rounds, Lock and Load!!

Semper Fi, Sgt

[goon]

I doubt that there will ever be a riot at my doorstep.
I was a 12B.
If it looks like there is gonna be trouble, I will just flood my moat with some field-expedient Napalm and wait and see.:D

Just kidding.
I don't have a moat.

But I do have several accurate rifles and a few hundred rounds. Most everyone in my area owns a deer rifle.
A Winchester beats a Glock any day of the week, so go ahead and start some trouble here.
But keep in mind that there are very few things for you to hide behind that will protect you from a hail of 7.62MM bullets. They just have this nasty habit of shooting right through stuff.:evil:

[roscoe]

There are a few states in which you are required to submit your life and property to the rioters for the common good and safety of the community.

Your life? Could I see a cite on that?

[jsalcedo]

In states that don't allow self defense you could be prosecuted for having the means to defend your life, family and property.

Like the ronald dixon case in Manhattan.

He still went to Rikers.

[HankB]

In states that don't allow self defense you could be prosecuted for having the means to defend your life, family and property. If there's nobody around to arrest the violent rioting looters, then there won't be anyone around to arrest a person who deals with them.

How many Koreatown merchants were arrested & successfully prosecuted, even after appearing on TV news?

Anyone have demographic stats on those who died during the LA riots? I've never seen data on how many were innocents and how many were rioters who picked the wrong victim.