WWW.2008HORSERACE.COM Fraud


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R127
May 22, 2007, 04:06 PM
Go to www.2008horserace.com and take a look at how Paul has been singled out with "spammer" in big red letters over his poto. Then vote in the poll and take a screen cap. Come back a little while later and watch in amazment as they delete votes for Paul right before your eyes. I watched it go from 32 to 4 in the space of a few minutes.

Kind of makes you wonder if this is how they run the real elections, too.

At any rate I believe it is worthwhile to expose this poll as the blatant fraud that it is.

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Correia
May 22, 2007, 04:47 PM
Activism is for coordinating activity only.

So unless you've got an actual plan of action, I'm going to move this to the discussion forum.

outerlimit
May 22, 2007, 04:47 PM
Wow, that's ridiculous. I saw that too. :barf:

helpless
May 22, 2007, 05:08 PM
Okay so what to do about it.

R127
May 22, 2007, 06:39 PM
Move it wherever you want but I thought activism made sense and I thought my idea was fairly clear. Vote, take screen shots, use that evidence to discredit the site. Share with others elsewhere.

As it happens Paul went from having 32 votes to have 4 votes and is now down to only 1.

Juna
May 22, 2007, 07:03 PM
So I went to the site & voted for Paul, who had 0% of the votes. I posted a tasteful but dissenting comment, and it showed up. Then I checked 2 minutes later, and it was gone--and so was another pro-Ron Paul comment posted 2 comments before mine. I tried posting another comment, and it said my IP address was banned & that I wasn't allowed to post comments.

I guess that shows us what kind of web site this is...... :barf:

AmbulanceDriver
May 22, 2007, 07:08 PM
Oh, even better. Ron Paul is now "disqualified".... if you scroll down on the front page, it shows this:

Ron Paul Defends U.S. Constitution
It's okay to be called a horses ass in America... In response to ongoing spam attacks racetrack officials issued a ruling banning Ron Paul's entire barn workforce from the racetrack indefinitely. All prior and future wagers placed on Ron Paul were declared invalid and deleted from the toteboard. Ron Paul will continue to be allowed morning workouts on the training track and keep his Howdy Doody puppet. He'll need to hire all new assistant trainers, grooms and hotwalkers with legal U.S. immigration status.
March 15. America Downs Racetrack Advance Bet Window

outerlimit
May 22, 2007, 07:23 PM
I guess when Ron Paul came in second place, 1% behind Romney, in Fox's cellphone text message vote that was "internet spam" also, like they claimed was the reason for the MSNBC poll results. :rolleyes:

Juna
May 22, 2007, 07:36 PM
I guess when Ron Paul came in second place, 1% behind Romney, in Fox's cellphone text message vote that was "internet spam" also, like they claimed was the reason for the MSNBC poll results.

Yup... and ABC News, and other polls on MSNBC, and most internet polls I've seen.... Must be all "internet spam"... That's why he was winning with 88% of the 20,000 votes on ABC News... Yup... :rolleyes::barf:

Sindawe
May 22, 2007, 07:41 PM
Hmmm...maybe calling up the registrant of the site and asking whats up would be a worthy endeavor? :evil:

Domain: 2008horserace.com
Registration provider: NOAN

Registrant
James Hall
James Hall
patobrien3@juno.com
8359 Elm Ave.
San Gabriel, CA 91775 US
+1.6262859669
(FAX)

Administrative
James Hall
James Hall
jimhall@lightlens.com
8359 Elm Ave.
San Gabriel, CA 91775 US
+1.6262859669
(FAX)

Billing
James Hall
James Hall
jimhall@lightlens.com
8359 Elm Ave.
San Gabriel, CA 91775 US
+1.6262859669
(FAX)

Technical
James Hall
James Hall
jimhall@lightlens.com
8359 Elm Ave.
San Gabriel, CA 91775 US
+1.6262859669
(FAX)

Record created on July 20, 2005
Record last updated on May 03, 2007
Record expires on July 20, 2008

hankdatank1362
May 22, 2007, 07:52 PM
They are so full of it!!!

lamazza
May 22, 2007, 08:02 PM
looks like he's not on the poll now.

azredhawk44
May 22, 2007, 08:11 PM
Mr. Hall:

I am perturbed that you have decided to attempt to influence public policy by alleging that Dr. Ron Paul is an invalid candidate due to alleged spamming. I obtained your contact information from a WHOIS search against your domain.

So, by what grounds do you conclude that Ron Paul is an invalid candidate and a “spammer?”

Regards,

[AZRedhawk44]
Scottsdale, AZ

I sent the above email to the domain registrant. Feel free to do the same... I will update if I get a response.

Cesiumsponge
May 22, 2007, 08:17 PM
I still can't believe the big media outlets are so scared of Ron Paul, but this is a great thing. They can only come up with tinfoil hat ideas to discredit Ron because they can't find any REAL dirt on the guy about voting issues or his personal life.

They'd try to have you believe that the only people that vote on these polls are Ron Paul supporters. Gee, there are dozens of other candidates on either party platform. Are they claiming they don't have followers either because they fall so far behind in the polls?

Why is no mainstream media source crying that Mitt Romney votes were spammed when he won the MSNBC polls just slightly ahead of Ron Paul, with both dominating Giuliani? Certainly Ron and Mitt can't win by a double digit landslide without some devious alterior motive by the vast mystery of the Internet.

The fact that these places are worried and trying to find excuses for a candidate that "has no chance" is satisfying, because why worry unless they ARE a threat?

doofus
May 22, 2007, 08:32 PM
Before getting all bent out of shape, how about looking into it a bit.

*every* candidate spams to some degree, though a bit of Googling shows that either Ron's spam campaign has been much more active, or his opposition is much more vocal.

helpless
May 22, 2007, 10:28 PM
Show me how to find Ron Pauls "Spam Campaign"

outerlimit
May 22, 2007, 10:58 PM
You're right that every candidate asks their supporters to spam. Of course every candidate is going to ask people to vote for them. McCain's own website asked supportors to spam the Fox News cellphone text message poll at the last RNC debate and look how well that worked out. ;)

doofus
May 23, 2007, 04:44 PM
Show me how to find Ron Pauls "Spam Campaign"

Oh, I don't know...how about Google? Within the span of about 60 seconds, I found a number of references in which someone discusses/complains about his spamming:
Here (http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/2529)
Here (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_051607/content/01125110.guest.html)
Here (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rnr/334338153.html)
Here (http://www.digg.com/world_news/****_Ron_Paul_Spam_Bury_em) (this URL is auto-sanitized by THR, but you can probably guess what to replace the asterisks with).
Here (http://www.tagroom.com/tag/15675)
Here (http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=4644041)
Here (http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/09/ron-paul-supporters-poll-spammers/)
Here (http://timothybryce.com/?p=33)
Here (http://news.neilrogers.com/news/articles/2007052002.html)
Here (http://www.topix.net/state/ia/2007/05/ron-paul-isnt-much-of-a-phenomenon-when-his-supporters-cant-spam-a-poll)

And that's without really caring to look around. Again, my point is just that people get bent out of shape when somebody bags on "their guy". Every candidate is spamming to some degree...it just seems that ol' Ron is doing enough of it to get noticed.

lamazza
May 23, 2007, 08:41 PM
?? The above examples look like promotion to me.
Spam is when Liberals have auto callers calling you at home repeatedly and LYING about upcoming vote issues.
Spam is unwanted emails flooding your mailbox.
So is that the new media attack on Ron Paul? He's a Spammer? Is that the best they can do?

geekWithA.45
May 23, 2007, 09:13 PM
*sigh*

Ahem.

I can actually speak with a little more authority on this topic than most people...well, than most people on the planet, really.

Past positions on my resume include "professional statistician", (OK, that was 20 years ago, but still....) and more recently, "chief architect of a huge website most of you have used, and shall forever remain nameless.", and a lot of other things in those ballparks.

When the results of uncontrolled internet polls are grossly out of line with the results of professionally run polls (which generally adhere to some minimum standard of scientific integrity), it's a sure sign of one of the following:

1) The participating population is skewed, the sample is "naturally" not representative of the whole, for any of a number of possible reasons. (Classic example: skewed telephone polls in the days when the distribution of telephones had class and income implications)

2) The participating population is skewed, the sample is "unnaturally" not representative of the whole. (Classic example: rallying partisans to polls via email, website, blog post, or forum post...let's face it, we "hit this {gun related} poll" all the time, and the only time we ever lose is deep in enemy territory)

or

3) Varying degrees of sophistication of poll stuffing attack. Google any warez list, you can find a dozen scripts to stuff the poll of your choice.


I can say, with absolute certainty, that _most_ professionally run sites are aware of the issue of poll stuffing, have hardened their sites in various ways against it, and those that care actively monitor for it, alerting staff to any of a number of "tells" that indicate a rat. Sites that care to do so can and DO adjust or filter the results in any of a number of ways, some blatant and some subtle.

The bottom line is this: Internet polls are cases of garbage in, garbage out, with the poll owner having the final word on the "out" part.

------------------------------------

The simple reality that Ron Paul fans and supporters don't want to hear is that credible, reputable pollsters have determined that he's rated at less than 1%, which is grossly at odds with the er...optimistic numbers of internet polls that have fired their hopes and imaginations.

The internet polls are being adjusted in light of this, and NOT in some deep dark conspiracy of influencing public policy by sidelining Dr. Paul.

Sorry guys, that's just how it is.

ilbob
May 26, 2007, 11:33 AM
I am in agreement with geek. I just do not see anywhere near the support for Ron Paul that readily scammed polls show.

Who would have thought Howard Dean would manage to come so far last time around.

One problem with Ron Paul is that his message is very difficult to compress into a 30 second sound bite. Many of his supporters have focused on his opposition to the war thinking that will draw in those opposed to the war. I just do not see that happening. Much of the anti-war sentiment is really barely disguised Bush hating from the far left. Does not mean there is no anti-war sentiment outside that group, but the serious anti-war crowd will never vote for anyone who is not at the very least a committed socialist.

helpless
May 27, 2007, 02:29 AM
So what do you mean by spamming? A lot of people going to a site and voting? Ron Paul has a lot of support out there, that's just the way it is. A lot of us who never cared to speak up are now bringing up Dr. Paul to even total strangers when the topic of politics comes up. Today at the Cigar shop the casher said something about Bush and my friend and I mentioned Ron Paul, "who is that?" she asked so I gave her one of the cards I had made with www.ronpaul2008.com on it and "WALLA!" It peaked her interest and tonight that lady might go home and check him out. Maybe after she becomes a supporter she might vote on one of these polls. Maybe what Dr. Paul has to say and his stance on the issues might line up with hers and she just might actually vote for the man. Better yet she might turn a few friends or family on to him.

How is this Spamming? It sounds more like support. The flow of information works very different than it did eight and even four years ago.

But yeah spamming seems like an easy cop-out to me.

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