[Combat-wombat]

What are your general opinions?

[LeonCarr]

Good gun, but the cartridge is an answer in search of a question. If Glock can chamber the Glock 36 for the .45 ACP, then they could have chambered the Glock 37 for the .45 ACP also. Why they chambered it for the .45 Glock, when they know that all most people want is a Glock, chambered for the .45 ACP, that will fit the average person's hand, instead of the larger frame Glock 21 or Glock 30. I wonder if a good gunsmith could rechamber the Glock 37 for the .45 ACP. Food for thought :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Skunkabilly]

Seems like a lot of people have their minds made up but I'll shoot it before I form an opinion....

[Sberk1]

Lets see..
NAA 32
Sig 357
Makarov 9x18
S&W 40
Glock 45
How soon before we see a dedicated Jennings caliber?
It looks like there are some egos in the Firearms business.

[Shmackey]

Stupid stupid stupid

[denfoote]

Have not yet seen it or the rounds!!

[10-Ring]

Made for the same people that buy those electric ice tea makers...:confused:
Should have made a single stack 10mm...:rolleyes:

[DigMe]

Made for the same people that buy those electric ice tea makers...

Or egg cookers, or sandwich makers...

brad cook

[JimC]

Not much at all if I can help it. ;)

[Rich357]

So, I guess the G37 could hold 13 rounds, like the G21, but it would have the grip size G17 or G22?

Rich

[JimC]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression it's only a 10 shooter to be PC. :confused: Or did I miss something?

[Lone_Gunman]

JimC,

Its a 10 shooter to comply with federal law. But that law may sunset, and then I bet it will become a 12 or 13 shooter.

-----------

[JimC]

But that law may sunset

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen if I were you.

[Lone_Gunman]

JimC

Unless there is a major change, the votes arent there in the House for passage of a replacement law.

Even if it doesnt sunset though, a G26 sized 45 caliber pistol is appealing.

[Kobun]

The G37 has a 10 round mag.
To fit the .45 caliber in a mag the same dimentions as a G17 mag, you have to stack the rounds more on top of each others than in a 9mm. So in fact it is more of a 1 1/2 stack mag...

The G37 has the same dimentions as a G17, but uses .45 rounds that are the same length as a 9x19

[Boats]

I have a two pound sledge and an anvil near my reloading press awaiting any .45GAP brass I encounter. Hopefully, the round will be a failure and as common as .41 Magnum.

[Old Fuff]

As most handloaders know, the .45 ACP case has more powder capacity then is necessary when some of the newer propellents are used. In addition the otherwise fine Glock pistol has less-then-optimal support for the case head.

While many users in the United States would like to see Glock make a full-sized single stack .45 and 10mm that doesn't seem likely at this time. Tooling a new frame is very expensive, and more so for a limited market. On the other hand there is a potential market for a .45 that isn't a .45ACP in those countries that forbid civilian ownership of pistols in military calibers.

So we now have, or shortly will have, a cartridge that is shorter then the regular .45 ACP but matches the performance of that round using 185 and 200 grain bullets. What has been given up in the case is unused air space. In addition the case head has been beefed up for more strength in a critical area - at least in Glock pistols.

A number of companies besides Glock - not to mention some perceptive users - are interested in the cartridge because like the .40 S&W it allows a bigger cartridge in a smaller frame. What we will ultimately see is a number of compact and sub-compact pistols that are chambered for a round that within the bullet weight limits duplicates the .45 ACP.

A number of individuals have opined that the .45GAP is of no value and serves no purpose. I think they are wrong. Gun manufacturers prefer to make new models that can be based on existent components, particularly frames. I think those who like the Glock 9mm-.40S&W pistols will like the G37. Others may pick their favorite .40S&W make & model and imagine it as a .45 - not too bad a prospect.

[Boats]

A few points:

1) The .45ACP's reputation is built on the 230gr loadings not the lighter ones.

2) If one is going to get a subcompact that robs the .45 cal rounds of needed velocity for better expansion of hollowpoints, one might be better served by stepping down in caliber to higher pressure loadings such as .40S&W or 9mm+p

3) Speaking of limited markets, a weight downloaded .45 caliber pistol for midget hands is a limited market, especially when not anyone I have heard of complains about the non-existent "hugeness" of most .45ACP offerings, (The 1911A1, SIG 220, Beretta 8045, SW99, CZ 97B, and HK USPc, have all magically fit most humans in the market to date). Maybe the spray and pray crowd needs a "smaller" grip than their standard spray and pray model? Again, limited appeal there.

4) If Gaston can't plug a 230gr pill into his vanity round, perhaps more has been lost than some unused airspace? Perhaps someone has lost his mind?

5) Yes, the non-US civilian, non-US police, non military caliber restricted countries are such a huge firearms market that the GAP will be a smashing success, especially if the mag ban dies here and people can resume stuffing their .45ACP hi-caps with 230gr JHP's or .450 Super in cheaper magazines.

.45GAP in a word: STUPID!

[9x19]

I want one.... anything new is bound to be fun... if only for a little while.

Personally, I think it might do quite well, and I can envision other makers of compact 9mm and .40 pistols giving it a look as a third chambering in a "caliber" thats quite popular with american shooters.

[denfoote]

I bet it's at least as popular as the Glock 36!!! :banghead:

[boing]

Anything that annoys so many people so thoroughly has to be a good thing. :p

[Tamara]

A more insightful marketing decision hasn't been made since Bob Goizueta signed off on New Coke. ;)

[MJRW]

I will reserve judgement until I have a chance to fire one.

However, .45 ACP fans are so rabid I don't think calling it the .45 GAP was a wise decision. Why are you going to get the more expensive (very likely) .45 GAP over the very well known .45 ACP? He could have at least called it like the .451 GAP. Then people would be like "oooooooooooh, its .001 bigger!"

Does anyone else get the sinking feeling he will be selling these to LE for about $0.38? Then all the gotta-have-what-the-LEOs-have community will be all over it.

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

A G-37 I can do without. Not that it's a bad idea, but I have a medium-frame Glock already, and I like it in .357 Sig.


But...


The .45 GAP means I can have a .45 BHP.

Or a .45 Kahr.

Or a .45 Sig 239.

Or a .45 Beretta 92.

Or a .45 Ruger PC-40.

Or a .45 Heritage Stealth.

Or etc. etc...

The .45 GAP addresses the most fundamental reason there aren't more dinkum little CCW guns in the favorite American big-bore:

Cartridge Overall Length.

When the .40 S&W came out, it was an instant hit. Everybody who was making a 9mm could very easily make a .40 without re-designing their existing product overmuch and neccessitating exorbitant re-tooling costs. That made for a huge variety of new platforms to support the new caliber that starts with .4 instead of .3, which definitely appeals to American sensibilities and puts the 9mm vs. .45 debate on the back burner. EVERYBODY had a .40 ready right quickly, so the market no longer had to be satisfied with less in terms of quality or availability of a gun made by their favorite brand.

Now we have a stubby .45 caliber round that (Hopefully.) will inspire a raft of manufacturers to produce big-bore guns based on their existing small-frame platforms that were created to optimize the size-efficeincy of handguns mandated to only hold ten rounds.

The only good effect of the Klintoon mag restriction was to put paid to the over-inflated worth of the wondernine. You can make a pretty small gun around a double-stack of ten 9mm's. That, however, had the effect of resurrecting the 9mm vs. .45 debate on the grounds of a sneaky little platform vs. Bullets for Real Men in a less hidable package.

The .45 GAP may just defuse that debate.

Just think of it like this:

What nifty little extra-CC-able 9mm/.40 would be THAT MUCH BETTER if it could just be available as a .45?

Now maybe it can be, at a reasonable price, even.

And of course, how many folks absolutely swear by the Browning High Power? And wished it could be available in .45 caliber persuasion from a trusted maker? I know I want one.

The lack of 230-grain loadings won't hurt much. Lots of folks really like +P 185-grain .45 ACP's. They don't seem to need the heavy bullets. The .45 GAP runs at a higher operating pressure than the old ACP, which allows it's standard-pressure loadings to bark right on the heels of the +p ACP loads. The 200-grain GAP load exceeds John Browning's ORIGINAL protoype 200-grain ACP load he offered to the military trials before the folks in charge asked for a heavier bullet. That oughta be worth something.

The premier .357 Magnum load is the 125-grain JHP, not the 158-grain bullet. What do you suppose you could get out of those 165-grain Hydra-Shoks Federal's loading in their Personal Defense line? Or the 185-grain Remington Golden Sabers that work so well in the ACP? 200 grains certainly can't be considered a LIGHTWEIGHT bullet by any stretch of the imagination.

I think the .45 GAP has a great deal of potential. What remains to be seen is whether or not the American shooting public and the American gun industry can be convinced to realize and appreciate that potential.

The possibilities are endless. A .45 Seecamp? Or a KelTec P-45? Or a .45 PPK?...

:)

[seeker_two]

Gaston Glock seems to have it in his head that he create better designs than the esteemed John Moses Browning...

First the pistol (Glock vs. 1911/BHP)...

Now the cartridge (.45GAP vs. .45ACP)...

One day, Gaston will learn...:rolleyes:

[9x19]

Well,

If Gaston's cartridge sells as well as his pistol... perhaps he already KNOWS... at least what will sell. :p

BTW, Just who is this John Moses Browning?

:evil:

[jdmac45]

Well he's dead, but I can introduce you to his friend Ma Deuce...just stand over there a bit... :p

[Oracle]

Well, seeker_two, Gaston Glock has made a lot of money with his designs, and I think that was his intention, over anything else.

[cordex]

Have no need or desire to buy one, but if anyone's planning on buying one and then throwing it away, I've got room in my safe.

[larryw]

Ya know Oracle, I think it was more GG's marketing prowess than the designs that made him so much money. And I'm sure we'll see the full-frontal assault to push this new gun/caliber into the LEO market, thereby making it a success. Granted, it will take time for one to be able to buy ammo for their new bang-stick just about anywhere, but that won't stop its spread.

I don't hold much of an opinion one way or the other about Glocks (although I really enjoy twisting the tail of the Believers :p ). I don't like the trigger, but do admire the reliability. I'll hold off judgment until I get a chance to shoot one and compare it to my wife's 8-shot USP Compact in 45ACP (seems someone already has done the compact 45 thing pretty well).

I do believe this one's success is preordained. IMO, the only question is this a good thing?

[Coffee357]

I don't have much use for the Glock 37... I may have a lot of use for the Glock 38! I think a G19 sized 45 may be a very impressive piece of ordinance. Others are waiting for the G26 sized 45. The round/pistol combination is not so much a great idea for what it is - but for what it may become. Larger rounds in a smaller frame may be just what the doctor ordered for CCW or for those with small hands.

Coffee

[355sigfan]

I wonder if a good gunsmith could rechamber the Glock 37 for the .45 ACP. Food for thought .
END

No they can't. The 45 acp is simply too long. The 37 has the same dimensions as the Glock 17/22/31 family. Its a nitch gun that appeals to those with small hands that want a 45 and still have a double didget capacity. How popular it will be time will only tell. It depends on how big the nitch is.
PAT

[grenadier]

I'll wait until I can test one out myself.

If ammunition (and brass) is plentiful, if I can use my same .45 ACP dies to load 45 GAP ammo, if it is an accurate cartridge, and if it can perform with the same reliability as my Glock 21, then certainly, I would buy one.

If anything, maybe such a cartridge would be a beautiful match with Alliant Power Pistol propellant powder...

[cookhj]

ALL I WANT IS A .45 SINGLE STACK IN A G19/23/32 SIZE! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK! :cuss: :banghead:

[Old Fuff]

>> ALL I WANT IS A .45 SINGLE STACK IN A G19/23/32 SIZE! IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK! <<

Yes, maybe it is. Gun manufacturers look at the world in a different way then users often do. While Glock frames are relatively inexpensive the tooling to make them is not. Market economics dictate that enough of a certain style handgun (or frame) has to be sold to recover the tooling costs. That’s why makers prefer to bring out new models that are based on something they’re building now. You (and I) would like to see some more single-stack Glocks. It won’t happen until a large enough demand builds up (we’re talking about many thousands of guns) to justify the cost of making them and demand for the present line of guns drops off enough to provide manufacturing space in the factory. Neither seems likely at the moment, but don’t give up. The time will come someday, or someone else will see an opportunity and produce the gun you want.

[krept]

I find it ironic that Glock produces pistols that simply say ".40" and ".357" instead of ".40 S&W" and "357 SIG" but now expect other companies to say "45 GLOCK" on their slide?

I'll wait till I see the numbers to think about this one.

[Andrew Wyatt]

I have a two pound sledge and an anvil near my reloading press awaiting any .45GAP brass I encounter. Hopefully, the round will be a failure and as common as .41 Magnum.


I fail to see your logic (if indeed there is any).

As long as they came out with a double stack .45 that fit more people's hands, why does it matter how they did it?

If it means more ploice officers are allowed to carry a "real caliber" then it's got merit.


I always like to see innovation of any kind in the firearms industry, and i show my displeasure at things i don't like by not buying them.

I'm going to build myself a .45 GAP BHP, as soon as i can find a suitable barrel for it.

[longeyes]

My response: When is Glock going to make an eight-round extended magazine for my Glock 36?

[Preacherman]

I'm with Old Fuff and Hand_Rifle_Guy on this one. I think that the shorter-for-caliber Glock .45 might be very successful in smaller pistols whose frame size has never allowed their manufacturers to produce them in .45 ACP. Can you say "Kahr PM45"?

:D

[Tamara]

I find it ironic that Glock produces pistols that simply say ".40" and ".357" instead of ".40 S&W" and "357 SIG" but now expect other companies to say "45 GLOCK" on their slide?

They used to say ".40 S&W" and ".357SIG". They dropped them after they won the big Sigma lawsuit against S&W.

Funny, my 629 and Vaquero don't say ".44 Remington Magnum" and my Beretta 96D just says "Cal. .40"... ;)

[krept]

interesting... didn't know that.

We'll see how it pans out. I wonder how many gunshops in the boonies are going to respond "fortyfive Glock ammuntion? What you mean, son, you got a G21 that you want to feed?"

or in the city, to a customer... "Ummm, no sir, these bullets won't work in your G37. You need 45 Glock, not .45 ACP"

I simply do not see other manufacturers rushing to produce handguns for this cartridge... "if it ain't broke..." If this is the case, I also do not see a lot of local places stocking up on 45 Glock ammunition, for the G37 would be the only pistol shooting it. It's tough enough finding 10mm, and there are more platforms that utilize this caliber.

further, as touched on earlier, people frequently complain about the ACP's lack of sectional density. w/200gr max, this will probably remain to be an issue unless they really tailor the bullet construction.

I guess I see this pistol as appealing to the "I have small hands, need 10 rounds and MUST have a .45" crowd. IM0 the .40 has shown to be the cat's meow for LE, Military is pretty much stuck with 9mm... without widespread "professional" acceptance (lots of 1911/ACP fans here) I'm just not so sure how well it will catch on.

Now, will it be an effective cartridge/platform combination? You betcha. More effective than the G23? I doubt it, not enough to warrant yet another change.

As far as the overseas ammo restrictions... I wonder how many LE or Military units in other countries carry the .40? I know Ayoob exhaults his G27 just for that reason... no ammo restrictions.

To summarize my diatribe, I've got no problems with this cartridge/platform combo but I think Glock could have spent the RnD on bigger and better things.

Can it work? Absolutely.

Do I think it will be the next "big thing"? No.

time may very well prove me wrong! But I do know having more choices is a generally a good thing.

[boing]

My dealer had two boxes of .45G on the shelf. Now he has one. We think his part-timer sold someone the wrong ammo for their .45ACP.

With all new things, a learning curve...

[krept]

:D

just FMI... how much does he want for it, who produces it, etc? Was it practice ammo?

[boing]

Made by Speer. The missing box was JHP, the other FMJ. No idea on the price. I'll tell him you're interested. :)

[Obiwan]

I have seen 45 GAP for $12.00 / 50

[Nero Steptoe]

Like EVERYBODY else who's posted in this thread, I don't have a clue whether the .45 GAP will be a marketing success or not; however, I do know that its success will have to be without my participation.

I'm sure that the folks at Glock have done enough marketing research to have a pretty good idea if there's a market for their smaller-framed pistols in a .45. I don't think they'll get very far with l.e., as they'll be competing against their own excellent .40's, with which the l.e. community is so enamored. With 15-rds. of .40 available in the same frame size as the .45 GAP, I don't see that l.e. would be too motivated to change.

As far as Gaston Glock's "competing" with a guy who's been dead forever, I doubt if that thought ever crosses Gaston's mind.

There has really been no competition between the BHP's/1911's and Glocks, as Glock's cleaned their clock in the marketplace, ever since Gaston introduced the world to the G17!

You'd be surprised at how many people take about how they "really dislike the Glock's trigger," but have never picked up a Glock. So it goes.

[Futo Inu]

Hand Rifle Guy makes a very valid point about COL and possible new offerings in existing guns. It will be interesting to see whether the laundry list of 9/40 gunmakers will offer it in 45Gap, whether a sig 239 or whatever. It could certainly fill a role for in theory for those of use who (a) want to make a .45 hole, even with no expansion, and (b) have small hands and thus prefer thinner grips. This is particularly true if the standard cap mag ban is renewed, because if you're limited to 10 anyway, why not get a big hole maker with the same thin grip? I may have to re-think my opinion on the GAP.

Nevertheless, this:

"I have a two pound sledge and an anvil near my reloading press awaiting any .45GAP brass I encounter."

is funny. :)

[hksw]

Saw one and cursory examined it last Saturday. Nothing really worth noting about the gun. 9mm/.40SW sized frame with a beefy slide.

Round looked pretty funny though. Really stubby. Small pistol primer. Didn't catch the price as I wasn't really interested in getting one.

[SigP220ST_Guy]

Its a 10 shooter to comply with federal law. But that law may sunset, and then I bet it will become a 12 or 13 shooter.

This is not true. And from my understanding and from the guys over at Glock Talk the G37 is maxed out with 10 rounds since they built it on a smaller frame. The next compact models I.E. G38 will have a lower capacity.

Do I like it? Doesn't really turn me on right now but I guess I can see a place for it. I think the Glock 22 is a better weapon. The rounds are too comparable and the G22 holds 5-7 more rounds.

I think they screwed up by not making the G37 a larger version of the G36. Plus I don't like how they show the prototype being the same exact size as a G17/G22/G31 than release something different.