Are the CZ's perfect? I can't find any negative reviews on them

This is not a "Hate" thread, I'm just looking for any possible negatives of the CZ 75 or CZ P-01. I have read about them in magazines, forums, and random online sources and find nothing but positive feedback. This is very convincing and I do think I'll be getting a CZ P-01, it just seems too good to be true. If they are so perfect, why doesn't everybody have one?

No, they're not perfect. They're darn good, but not perfect.

For example, I have a CZ P-01, which is an excellent gun...now. When I got it (used, and perhaps pretty heavily), I had a lot of problems with premature lockback, and the occasional feedramp nosedive. I was advised that magazine springs could help the lockback issue, and when I did eventually get around to replacing the springs, both problems disappeared. However, it seems that in general, CZ's factory springs might be kinda weak for the job. I've heard that lots of owners, as a matter of course, replace the springs with slightly more powerful springs (like Wolff's increased power sets).

No gun is perfect. They do happen to be my favorite autoloaders however. I also prefer the CZ-75B but I think most will perfer the P-01.

Some think the triger is too long to reach but it is fine for me in double action mode but I tend to carry it 1911 style cocked and safety on.

There are some things I would like a little bit different and I wish they had one that was exactly like a CZ-75B but slightly longer grip so it could accomadate 10mm and 9x23.

As a 9x19 or .40 S&W I think they are almost as good as it gets but others will disagree. Guns are a very personal thing and prefereces do vary alot.

The only negative thing I've ever heard about them is that the slide stop can break around 20K rounds.

They have worked perfectly for me. The only jams I ever had were due to my own over-long handloads. BTW, if you do reload, double check OAL with a drop test - CZs are notorious fora "short chamber", needing shorter OAL.
I am quite the CZ nut, (everyone here knows that!), and my wife and I have owned/do own PO1, PCR, Compact, and alloy frame RAMI, all 9mm, all excellent sidearms.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/choiceschoices.jpg

Not perfect, but a supremely good gun. Not necessarily "better" than any other good brand, either. The great thing about CZ is that they are incredibly comfortable. I would say that a very large part of why people like them so much (apart from their reliability; they're like old Benz diesels in more ways than one) is that somehow, CZ has managed to make a gun that fits a large variety of hand shapes and sizes. Of the people who have handled one or both of my CZ's (SP-01 and P-01) I have yet to find a single one of them that found either uncomfortable.

They're quite accurate and don't cost as much as, say, a Sig (my other fave), but you're still getting a heck of a lot of gun. One common complaint that I share is with their triggers out of the box. DA is VERY heavy and leaves a lot to be desired in the smoothness department, and though it is said that dry fire practice helps with this affliction, the impact that several hundred dry-firings has had on my SP-01 is nominal. My P-01 is newer, so I have to suspend judgment until a ways down the road.

Again, none of this is to say that any one gun is "better" than another, but my money will probably go towards a CZ before just about anything else at this point. There are always guns that I look at and say "Ooh, I want that", but oftentimes, I will see a handsome CZ and I'll forget about the other one, whatever it was.

Guns are very personal things. I happen to be nuts about CZs and love them. You will find people that do not like them at all.

I don't think it is possible to create a design that everyone will like as we are all different.

Pretty close to perfect, but I'd prefer my P-01 to have a safety so I can carry cocked and locked. My hands are small and the de-cocked double action trigger is just a little long.

There's no such thing as a perfect gun, despite all the fanboys screaming "GLOCK" invariably in ALL CAPS. The only CZ I own is the 75B and it's a very good gun for the money. I wouldn't call it perfect, but it's a big step ahead of many other guns I've shot. It has good balance and pointability, is very reliable, rugged, accurate and easy to shoot well with. Fit is the most important thing though. If it fits your hand, you could do a lot worse. If it doesn't fit, then it's not the right gun regardless.

Drawbacks are a rough trigger pull, but that is easy to solve. And weight, if that matters to you. I like heavier guns so it doesn't bother me any.

Absolutely not perfect, but... Darn good, just not perfect. I put them one step below Glock/SIG/HK. I say this because they have some QC issues. When they have a good day, they are as good as anything. However, considering what you're getting for your money...pretty darn good.


There are some things that are kinda cheap about them. The sights are kinda cheesy (functional though). The roll pins are I think kinda cheesy though none have every broken on me. I think the sear engagement surfaces are setup for maximum manufacturing slop so you get a crappy trigger. You'll see people complain about the "painted" finish but I don't consider this cheap. It is a very durable nearly chemically impervious polycoat.

I had an opportunity to field strip about 6-7 75Bs made over a ten year span. Some where tight, tidely machined, and obviously well made. A couple were kinda crappy looking. What's funny is that the crappy looking ones probably still shoot darn good. CZ does contract runs for governments, police agencies etc. Overrun from contracts gets passed on to us. The terms of the contract probably have an affect on the quality of the guns produced hence some of the variations.

CZ turns out the occasional lemon, but all in all from reports on the CZforum.com they have been good about addressing issues.

After saying all that, I have about 7 of them right now. I've never had any major problems. One 40P was a little persnickety about feeding initially, but after a couple hundred rounds no problems (accurate little bugger). The only thing I've ever had break was a trigger return spring, and CZUSA mailed me a new one.

There are czforum.com members with 50k-100k+ rounds through their pistols.

TX1911fan The CZ-75b had a safety. That is not a decocking model.

No machine is perfect, but CZ sure gets close.:)

They're "perfectish", which is pretty damn close.:D

Heh. "Perfectish" -- I like that.

They are great pistols. Superb reliability and ergonomics. I also find them aesthetically pleasing. Nice lines.

Many P-01s come with rather stiff DA triggers. Mine did. It's tolerable but a bit limiting. Could definitely be better. Unfortunately, since the P-01 is a decock-only pistol, you have to use the DA pull for the first shot. If that bothers you, consider the CZ 75 Compact as an alternative. Same size as the P-01, a bit heavier due to steel frame, cocked-and-locked capable.

Ironically, my 75B has developed a very nice, smooth DA trigger with use. I say "ironically" because I keep the 75B cocked and locked and shoot it almost exclusively single action. If I could magically switch my 75B's double-action pull over to my P-01, the P-01 would become the ideal compact 9mm.

The only thing that I do not like about my CZ PCR is that the trigger is too curved. My trigger finger becomes irritated after firing about 50 rounds.

The first time I picked up my CZ, I knew I had to buy it. The gun just fit. It felt good in my hand. I knew I had to have it.

I have had my P-01 for 2 years and have completely lost track of how many rounds have been put through it -- and have never had any malfunction of any kind. So I guess mine has been perfect. I can also say that of the Sig's I have, but the CZ was more affordable. The only thing I would change (and others have mentioned it) the trigger is too stiff out of the box.

My CZ75B is a bit heavy for all-day carry.

Umm...that's it. :)

I prefer my Sig over my CZ Rami...actually, I prefer my Stoeger Cougar over the CZ as well.

The CZ is a fine gun, reliable accurate, well made. My complaint on the new Poly Rami is that the grip could use more stippling/checkering and the mags rattle when fully loaded.

Here's the review of my CZ-75B in satin nickel.

Not perfect, but a good buy and a very accurate pistol.

http://www.therallypoint.org/forum/index.php?topic=1298.0

I had a pre-B with a safety that would drift out and lock the slide open. The pre-B's safety with its tiny safety detente plunger and plunger spring are the devil's playthings.:fire: I think it may have been a worn sear spring, but it was bought as NIB. I had a CZ75 Compact that would lock the slide open, no matter who fired it. A local smith found that the slide stop holes were improperly drilled. I had a CZ75B that ran very well but the DA/SA were disappointing. But I like the CZ75's aesthetics a lot so I recently got another CZ75B, and so far this one's a winner. SA/DA are excellent, accuracy superb, and, knock on wood, reliability has been great. No, nothing made by man is perfect, but when CZs work they're awesome.

the only negative thing i can say about CZ's is the cosmetic fit and finish is not always up to par with how well they function, but you cant have it all at the prices they go for!

Pretty much what everyone else has said. They are pretty close to perfect as their ergonomics appeal to just about everyone. That, combined with a solid reputation of utter reliability, decent price, and amazing accuracy make CZs a great option for many.

My CZ only criticism: small sights.

Slide stop breakage has been a problem for some, but the suspected source, irrc, is not the stop, but the frame. Apparently the holes for the slide stop in some frames were drilled a tad "off". The result is that the slide stop was not fully resting along the frame and contact was concentrated in certain points, thus stressing the pin. That's what I recall reading over at the CZ forum (http://p201.ezboard.com/bczechpistols82792). That problem popped a few years ago but seems not to be an issue now. But this is all anecdotal.

My only knock on my CZ 75 Compact is that I find it hard to rack the slide because of the guns design. I end up gripping the entire slide to get something to grab. It does everything else I expected when I bought it, did anyone mention it is a heavy and solid piece of steel. Mike

Not perfect, but there's not a 9mm under $1000 that's any better.

DanO

I love my PCR. A couple of things I would change are the plastic guide rods...not sure why it bothers me but it does. Been to lazy to get a steel replacement. This has had no effect on the performance of the gun.

I did not like the sights. Replaced them with Trijicon night sights. Now they glow real nice in the dark.

Had a couple of FTF early on. I attribute those to bad primers on some old ammo I was using.

I have tried my darnest to get my PCR to hic up. I have used some of the cheapest reman ammo I could find. All the way up to the high dollar +p hollow points. This old girl just chews it up and spits it out. I will have had it one year in August. Round count is over 10,000.

Make me choose between my PCR and P226 and the PCR wins out every time.

* Magazines don't drop free (fixable)
* A bit heavy. On the other hand, it's all steel.
* No decocker (on 75) if you want to carry that way.
* In my case, the firing pin snapped in half (75B).

* In my case, the firing pin snapped in half (75B).

Just curious, when was your CZ75B made? Did you do a lot of dry firing?

Just curious, when was your CZ75B made? Did you do a lot of dry firing?Interesting. My CZ-75B (purchased in the last few months) came with two snap caps included.

Maybe dryfiring a CZ-75B without snap-caps is a bad idea.

I don't own a CZ -- yet. But I have handled several of them; if one had been in stock when I bought my Ruger P345, I think that's what I would have walked out with instead.

Now, most guns are *fairly* well shaped -- the gun is not a new tool, after all, and makers have plenty of wisdom from which to draw even if all they do is blindly imitate previous well-received guns. But there are a few that feel something like perfect in the hand (my hands, at least), and the CZ 75 / P-01 fit into that category; the P-01 is IMO a good looking gun as well (no accounting for taste, of course), but just based on feel / pointability think I'd buy it over nearly anything else, full stop. I don't own any guns that I don't like (my tiny "collection" has been slowly gathered based on lots of consideration), but I can't say there's any gun of the handful I own that I wouldn't be satisfied to trade for a CZ P-01.

I have heard them described as a poor man's Sig, and that seems apt; Sigs are among the few that I think have similarly good ergonomics.

timothy

The ergos, accuracy and pointability on my 75 are amazing. But it chokes on WWB a few times per box. I suspect it's a mag issue as the 35 round Cabela mag works a lot better than the stock 16.

The Kadet kit though, perfect. Not one feeding issue. Go figure.

Interesting. My CZ-75B (purchased in the last few months) came with two snap caps included.

It's supposedly the roll pins that retain the firing pin that'll break from dry firing. They are now doubled (small one inside a large one) and that doesn't happen much any more.

Personally, I take and wedge a piece of folded paper in the back of the slide to cushion the hammer. You can test if you have it place correctly by sticking a pencil down the barrel, and if it shoots out from getting hit by the firing pin... try again (unload the gun before doing his BTW).

But it chokes on WWB a few times per box.

I've yet to a cz-75 choke on wwb ammo.

definitely not perfect...
slide stops can break, trigger springs can break, recoil springs might need replacing, extractor springs might need replacing..some choke on .40s, sometimes mags don't drop or lock open on last shot..

gee..sounds like every other gun make and model out there...:-D


CZs are a good gun and a great value..one of my favories

But pretty blasted good.

I had a bad run on trigger springs, especially with the P01. I also think that CZ customer service is inconsistent. And generally YOU pay the shipping. (But also, they are generally interested in making things right).

But, they are very well made, ergonomic, usually accurate with any load, and shoot POA OTB. Some need new springs and a little polishing here and there, and generally you will want to dry fire the specimen before purchasing - their triggers vary from rough to great.

And they look better than any other SA/DA auto around.

I went to order a SIG based on articles I had read and general reputation
but my dealer suggested a CZ and I could save 300 for ammo...if I didn;t like it when it came in he would buy it and get me the SIG...it came in and I would
not leave without it...it was a 75b in 40 and I have many thousand rounds through it and never a bauble...fits and shoots like I was Darth Vader himself.

So I recently got a 75 Compact in 9mm...and on the third shot the hammer froze up...I thought wth...took it to the gunsmith and he found a burr on the back end of the slide that tied up the main srring and locked the hammer up..
fixed that and I was good to go...but I will need to get several hundred more through it before I carry it for CHL as I had intended....

AS to satisfaction, I compare CZ to my Les Baer and my Night Hawk Talon,
although two entirely different classes of weapons...both are satisfying.
Blessings.

jonsidneyb wrote:
There are some things I would like a little bit different and I wish they had one that was exactly like a CZ-75B but slightly longer grip so it could accomadate 10mm and 9x23.

The closest thing to your order is the EAA Witness. I have them in 9mm/10mm/.45. Don't know for sure if it is available in 9x23, but it is available in .38 Super as well.
str1

Tecolote, I think I bought it around 1995, but I'm not sure. I don't dry fire much.

The firing pin ended up looking like:


---- -<=============


The interesting thing was that despite the metal flaw, the gun still fired. But, it would malfunction after every shot because the pin was protruding from the breech face enough to hinder extraction.

...the pin was protruding from the breech face enough to hinder extraction.That's a good thing. The other option is that it allows extraction but protrudes during the chambering process. :eek:

I have a CZ-75B and like it. I also recently bought an AR-24, and love it. It is a solid forged frame and slide, and it shoots well. I can hardly wait for the weekend, so I can get it back to the range.

My only complaint is the older CZ 75 has a tighter mag well than the newer ones. I have found the Mecgar replacement magazines will not fit in them... annoying as I have four very early late 70s early 80s vintage guns. Luckily I had newer CZ pistols I could use them with...

They're nearabouts perfect for the money. If you have a good idea of what you're buying before you buy a CZ--you're not expecting it to be a SIG, for example, or a Korth Autoloader, you're expecing a very functional, awesome, bang-for-the-buck firearm, then yeah, they're just this side of perfect.

The SIG thing. you're not expecting it to be a SIG I don't get it. I've shot the SIGs and don't see why they're consider so special.

Nearly.

Ref SIGS

I think one of the overwelming reasons why people say "CZ's are near perfect for the price", or "best buy for the price" is because they are great handguns, but...

If you were paying more, would they be your choice? There are some quality control issues with CZ that are concerning. One is the springs, another is the extractors breaking, and the third is the slide stops breaking.
There are problems with all firearms, but these three things tend to plauge the CZ's.

I would hardly call a report here and there a plague. Some posters have reported problems but lots of others haven't had a single issue with their CZs.

Check out this one CZ forum. The first page alone has 2-3 reports of slide stop breakage. The third page, check out the thread "why". Then continue your search. This is one CZ forum only.

http://www.czshooters.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=636c28b93fcdf2255f615f06cb938148

3 out of how many thousands sold? Some 220ST had extractor problems and some .40 Glocks have KBed, are those also plagues? That's making a mountain out of a mole hill.

The point is not 3 out of how many thousands sold. The point is that these complaints are on the forefront of this forum. How many others do you think have this problem/

Look, all handguns have their problems. But ask youself why so may posters on this thread were say "it is a great gun for the money", etc. And it is -for the money. I personally do not feel that the quality is where it should be. I own one, and have enjoyed shooting it.

Check out other forums. See if this is a trend, or if I stumbled across an anomoly.

Maybe not the best triggers, but I like em fine.

The triggers aren't too bad, a little long in the pull, but not bad.

Look, all handguns have their problems. But ask youself why so may posters on this thread were say "it is a great gun for the money", etc. And it is -for the money. I personally do not feel that the quality is where it should be. I own one, and have enjoyed shooting it.


I have three (SP-01, P-01, 97B). Have never seen the least hint of any of the plagues that supposedly accompany CZ pistols, and that's with feeding my 9mm CZs an almost exclusive diet of hot mil-spec ammo and lots of it. My P-01 is just old enough to have the single roll pins and has evidenced zero problems, the other two have the double pins.

I'll buck the trend and say they're great pistols for any amount of money, though fortunately skilled labor costs less in the Czech Republic than in Germany, the US, etc. Lower bore axis than a Sig or USP, metal frames and metal magazines instead of plastic make for great handling and minimal snap, and the best ergonomics of any handgun this side of a 1911 (or maybe a High Power, though I'd take the CZ on ergonomic grounds and the SA/DA trigger).

I don't have the least bit of reservations about carrying my P-01 for a daily CCW, and could easily carry most anything I wanted. I did not select it because it was a bargain, I selected it because I've found it and the SP-01 to be superior to their contemporaries from other manufacturers for my needs.

I thought about whether or not I should post my last entries. Not because I did not believe them, but rather because I did not wish to offend anyone.

I have six Kimber 1911's, five are the pre Series II models. They are quality firearms and will hold up to a multitude of shooting. After the Series II models came out, I begin to read about a lot of problems the Kimbers were having with MIM parts (I realize they were in the pre Series II also) and the Swartz system and FTF, FTE, etc.

I felt that I had no problems with mine, so these must be isolated problems. I also began to see more and more problems with Kimbers at ranges. And finally, I saw a gun store in Raleigh, NC stop selling all Kimber handguns because of these problems.

Sometimes, it's better to just complain loudly enough to get the manufacturer to make the quality changes needed. They monitor the prominate gun forums; they also monitor their sales.

No offense intended

The very point is that fact that thousands of CZs have been sold and only a handful of problems have been reported. If it was a major issue than we would be aware of it by now. Cruise any brand specific forum and you'll find problems but they don't amount to a plague in the majority of instance and they don't in CZ's case. Sure, some people posted problems with their CZs, just like people post problems about their SIGs and Glocks.

By the way, I don't think that your posts are in any way offensive.:)

By the way, I don't think that your posts are in any way offensive.


Thank you.

Is it true that the CZ Tactical Sport comes with a spare slide stop? If so, are there any other handgun manufacturers that supply this part with their handgun? Why would they supply an extra slide stop? I truely think this is a problem. It's not insurmountable, but it is a recognized problem within CZ, if they are indeed suppling one of their competition guns with a spare slide stop.

The slidestop thing worries me. I think CZUSA might have created some of the problem (like Glock's recall that's not really a recall except CZUSA is not fixing anything). The 1500 round life they put on slidestops was kinda interesting. I wonder if its an issue with the pistols, or simply the slide stops. The thing is, there doesn't seem to have been a problem in the past, so why now?

1500 round life on a slide stop is a little light, wouldn't you say? I would think it is the slide stops...could be wrong. The quality of the springs is another issue.

CZ's funny. They seem to vary in quality. I am not just talking about recently. Sometimes they turn out stuff that's just as good as anybody, other times...

Like Colt and everybody else, I guess. But the slide stop and spring issue is an on going problem.

if i recall correctly, the slide stop is not the problem. A few years back, some CZ-75bs were had the slide stop holes drilled slighty *off*. This caused the slide stop to not seat evenly in the frame, causing concentrated points of stress, thus breaking the pins. Long story short: if the hole for the slide stop is driled correctly in the frame , then there will be no problems.

see this link http://p201.ezboard.com/fczechpistols82792frm4.showMessage?topicID=3991.topic

I read the article, and it's interesting. It makes sense. It would be much cheaper to fix, if it were the slide stops. I'm curious, if anyone has taken measurements of the hole offsets. Actulally, you should be able to see uneven wear on a slide stop after a few hundred rounds.

Triggers on the older CZ's are better, and I think the fact that the individual pistols were cycled in an oil bath (like 700 times, to burnish/mate surfaces) is the reason. I have a small collection of Pre-Bs, transitionals and Bs, and the difference in trigger pull is noticable.

Sometimes described as the 'working man's SIG' just about sums it up. You can pay more, and you can pay less. Let your hand be the judge on how it will do the job. If it feels right, you will shoot well with it. CZ's just feel right.

I have read through the CZ forum (which is well moderated and polite), and have REALLY never heard of a problem with slide stop breakage in general. I have heard of one guy, where they eventually replaced the gun. So... I say it is NOT a problem in general. There are plenty of guys on that site with tens of thousands of rounds. Also, I just read about one guy who broke a few (has over a 100,000 on his, and has switched to a weaker recoil spring, and now they last longer. His gun still shoots accurately.

Of my four CZs, my 92 transitional had the best SA pull OTB. But, my 75B 40 is close, and it is my best DA pull of all. My PreB has an excellent DA, but the SA has had "variable camming" despite thousands of dry fires. I had and got rid of some P01s, because of their bad DA pulls and my inability to fix them myself. The one problem I have had with CZ's is breaking trigger springs when dry firing many times. But, I'm about the only guy to break so many. There was a run of bad springs in about 2004, but again, this is not a general problem.

When you buy one, do it in person, and find a good trigger - you should be set. If it is a local shop, and they will ship back the the factory for FREE, this can be a plus, as CZ USA does NOT like to pay for shipping! (min. charge is about $40).

But in the end, CZs are VERY durable, generally very reliable, can have good triggers (or EXCELLENT triggers with a good job), and LOOK like a real pistol SHOULD look.

Well most people that have had problems have been chased off this board as blasphemers. I have caught a lot of hate here for speaking the truth back in the day.

I love my cz dearly but it was one with a bad extractor and or spring.

No not a plague... but thank God I did not have to grab it to defend family life and limb before I had replaced the offending parts. Parts that CZ said they would send but never did.

problems were corrected by myself and at my expence. Great gun now, yes. Customer service, for me, it sucked.

Lots of the crap about the triggers can be solved with lots of solvent and an air compressor and proper lubrication. Can you say tons and tons of factory grit?

Yes, I know my CZ is PROBABLY working fine again.........for now.

But how long will it work? How can I check subtle differences in the angles on the lips of several magazines? How can I know when one has gone too far?

Yeah, the extractor spring is now brand new. What about the rest of the springs and doodads that have caused problems for others after some use? When will mine go bad--like this time--without any warning?

Nope, it's a belt, suspenders and TWO six-guns for me from now on!!!

:D :D :D

The grip is to fat for my hand!! Even the compact!! :what:
Otherwise, I'd have one!! :D

I hear thinner grips are available. Somebody mentioned it on this or the other CZ thread.

I have a CZ85 with the annoying problem of going to slide lock on a magazine that's only partially expended.

I have a Cz 75b and a Kadet - like 'em very much - (in a small voice) more than my BHP, but I still prefer my Sig 226. I do not know why, but I do.

Justin,

With the slide off but a magazine with a snap cap inserted, does your slide stop touch the cartridge?

Nothing is perfect (don't tell my wife :uhoh:) but the CZ give you quite a value for your money!

Here some nice CZ's:
http://www.mdwguns.com/alter_stand/CZ75semicompact.jpg

http://www.mdwguns.com/alter_stand/CZ75B07.jpg

One of the sweetest CZ's:
http://www.mdwguns.com/alter_stand/CZ75nickel.jpg

The neighborhood friendly:
http://www.mdwguns.com/alter_stand/CZ75SD22a.jpg

The grip is to fat for my hand!! Even the compact!!
Otherwise, I'd have one!!

I just measured (grip/trigger circumference) my CZ 75 (in SA mode) with THIN WOOD grips and my 1911A1 with normal grips AND short trigger. CZ 75 - 16.3mm; 1911A1 16.0 mm. OK - the 1911 is a TAD (.3mm) slimmer, but it would be "fatter" with the long trigger so many with custom 1911s prefer.

The CZ grip is not that fat, and factory wood grips makes it even better.

Well, my CZ 75 D PCR Compact fits me perfectly and hits where it's supposed to.......now if we can get past this temporary, I hope, failure to extract......there will be no more trouble in paradise.

And I'll probably add a P01 Compact with the Crimson Trace to my toolkit.

Cliff47,

Just curious, where did you here about CZ working the slides on the older models? Not doubting you, but I've never heard or read anything like that. Beretta does that on the 92FS models, that's why the slide to frame fit is so smooth. But as far as I know, the firing pin safety causes the main difference in pre-B and B models. Even then, not all pre-Bs had better triggers than B models. I've sampled some real dog pre-Bs with bad DA/SA pulls. I think it's more the luck of the draw.

Okay, about the longest post I've ever made. Please excuse the length...

I'm evidently in the minority, but it's not perfect to me. A lot of CZ enthusiasts are passionate about them, so I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. Remember I said they're not perfect to me. It may be for others. No gun is perfect, but the question was about the CZ being perfect.

That said, after owning 5 of them (two pre-Bs and three Bs), my observations are as follows and pertain to the out-of-the-box status as they come from the factory and only the 9mm versions. I'm also not addressing what might become of one with custom work. I'm also not qualifying my assessment by price ("It's a good gun for the money"), but rather on it's own merit. Some of my evaluations are based on function, some are based on ergonomics and aesthetics.

1. The trigger is okay. It's not fabulous, but it's not bad, either. I just like a better trigger. I prefer 1911s, BHPs and HK P7s, personally. Compared to them, I'm not as crazy about the CZ-75 trigger. I'm especially uninterested in the DA aspect of them. The reach is too long. I prefer the DA trigger of the Sigs and Beretta M9 to the CZ. The CZ is certainly adequate as a service trigger, though - in SA.

2. I don't like the thumb safety. It's too far forward for me. I don't have small hands, but the shelf of the thumb safety doesn't land right under the first knuckle of my thumb like I'm accustomed to with 1911s and BHPs. (I wouldn't even consider the CZ-75 if I were limited to only carrying it in DA mode.) The thumb safeties on the two military models I currently have, are mushy and not positive feeling.

3. I don't like the squared trigger guard on the B models.

4. I don't like the mag brake. That's easily fixed, though. (Just nit-picking, here...)

5. The magazines are often under sprung. Wolff springs fix that.

6. I don't like the plastic grips that come on them. Easily fixed with the factory rubber grips. (Just nit-picking, here...)

7. I'm not real happy about the slide stop question. Mike-the-gunsmith at CZ-USA told me the life expectancy of the slide stop is 1400 rounds. That's not a typo - he said 1400 rounds and I asked him to repeat it, which he did with emphasis. Then he said sometimes less. He also said they often go longer than that, but that's CZ's position. He said he didn't know why some lasted and some didn't. I don't like that. (I know, most CZ shooters go 20,000 - 2 million rounds, without slide stop failures, but I don't like the company position. I think the barrel bed area/slide stop/QC on the frame hole specs and delicate balance of the recoil spring weight all converge to make for an inconsistent formula for slide stops. (I've read that heavier recoil springs seem to accelerate slide stop breakage.)

8. I'm not crazy about the casting quality of the frame. It sure seems to last forever, so it's durable, but two A-game pistolmiths have told me that they tend to have lots of voids. They both indicated it can create surprises when refinishing and neither recommended any kind of checkering because of it. They also recommended refinishing them with a coating, rather than a reactive finish, because of the voids. They said "it fills in the voids, if we run into any".

9. This is a small nit, but there is less of the slide to grab in a hurry, with it's internal rail design. Doesn't mean it's a bad design, just something I've noticed. I do very much like the lower bore axis.

10. The firing pin stop pin. It takes a beating when dry firing. When using snap caps, it can still break. I don't like it.

11. "Cz-ery Czspelling". Why is any word beginning with an "S" changed to "Cz___" by some of it's fans? Czexy? Czuper? Czaturday? Czeven O'Clock? Czkullduggery? (Okay, just kidding... just friendly ribbing and has nothing to do with the gun. It's definitely evident of a loyal, happy user base.)

I like the CZ okay. I'm not saying the legions of CZ fans are wrong. It does have many good features. It points great. It shoots great. It feels good in the hand. But - in answering the question, "Is it perfect?", it's not to me. I think the sweet spot for pricing on them should be around $350, new

But hey, that's me...

Thanks for playing.

I don't own a CZ, though my next purchase is going to be a CZ75, simply on the grounds that it's the best fit for my hands and mind I've seen in a pistol, period. Grip, safety type, bore height, weight, and the look are all perfect. In fact, I sold a USP .40S&W for the cash to make this purchase.

Despite the supposed myriad of problems with the CZs that people claim, I've heard of fewer problems with them than I've heard of in Glocks, Kimbers, and Sigs. I've personally had more problems with my USP than I've had with my Taurus PT111 Pro, too; there is a certain amount of "luck of the draw" here, granted, but from what I've seen, there are no problems endemic to any of the CZ pistols.

The only shortcoming I can say the CZ might have is the long DA trigger pull - at least from my perception.

Kestrel,

Great post, you bring up a lot of points. I won't refute them individually because some of them are based on preferences. But I think that Mike at CZ was being very conservative when he mentioned the 1,400 round life span of the slide stops. They break on some CZs, but on most they work flawlessly. The double roll pins for the FPS have solved the problem of breakages when dry firing. Still, it's a good idea to use a snap cap. CZs aren't perfect and they aren't for everyone, agreed. But they fit so nice that for some it's worth overlooking the potential, and I stress potential, shortcomings.

Tecolote,

Very true. That's why I haven't been able to sell my military models.

I thought Mike was being conservative. When we talked about it, he said he was tired of dealing with broken slide stops and sounded frustrated. Even though 1400 rounds may be the factory's rating, I think some "battle fatigue" was also behind his weariness with the slide stop issue.

Something interesting - I've read other posts with folks being quoted different numbers from CZ-USA on slide stop longevity. Minor variations, but some quote CZ as saying 1500 rounds, etc. (Ha! Maybe it has to do with Mike's mood when you talk to him on a particular day...)

Kestrel,

The CZ75B Military models are sweet. I wish I would've bought one when I had the chance. You're right about Mike, sometimes he's as nice as can be but other times he sounds like he hasn't had his coffee and kolache. Despite that he can be very helpful and generous with his time.

Honestly, Kestrel, I tend to agree with several of your points. That said, I still contend that the CZ is one of the best values on the market today. Point-by-point:

1. Trigger: I agree with you. That's why I prefer the CZ 85 Combat, given that it has no hammer block. A broken-in CZ 85 Combat in single action can have a very nice trigger, however. That said, I would probably get an FM HiPower for ~$350 post-transfer if I were right-handed.

2. Thumb safety: That must be a hand size thing. I have small hands, and I hit the safety without thinking about it. If I couldn't reasonably carry C&L, though, I'd reject them outright.

3. Squared trigger: That's a personal issue. I cant see why anyone would buy a "B" model, though. That's like buying a Series 80 Colt. :scrutiny:

4. Mag brake: Yeah, it's gone ASAP. Nit pick away, though. That's what gun forums are for! :p

5. Magazine springs: Isn't Wolff great? They make good springs for the arm itself, too.

6. Factory grips: ghostholster.com, among others, will fix that right up. I haven't tried the rubberr grips, though I hear that they're good for range use.

7. Slide stop: This is the major complaint. If you're serious about carring a weapon, though, it's mandatory (IMHO) to put at least 2-3 thousand rounds through it first. Failures can always happen, which is why a BUG is nice, but extensive testing always comes first for me. Most CZs don't seem to have this problem in my (limited) experience.

8. Cast frames: I haven't heard any complaints about this. THe polycoat works for me, though.

9. Internal slide: I'm convinced that this gives greater accuracy, although I'm willing to entertain evidence to the contrary. It seems totally sufficient to me, so long as you grab the top of the slide rather than the sides.

10. FPS: I haven't had one break yet. I use snap caps. YMMV, of course.

11. Czpelling: You're dead on there. It's annoying as heck. All except "Czkullduggery," which has permanently entered my lexicon. :p

All that aside, I do still carry an m1911A1 clone. Still, CZ does make great weapons. I'm currently in love with the CZ SP-01 for home defense in an apartment environment.

Maybe CZ should have a deal with Wolff and simply sell the guns with Wolff springs instead of Wimp springs?

Duh!

Why not sell it with a good trigger in the first place?

Duh!

Slide stop?

Duh!

The few dollars those things would add to the price of the gun?

Most would HAPPILY pay that cost......(we end up paying it anyway eventually....and we also pay in aggravation, time and transport to gunsmiths).

We could also pay with our lives if the gun glitched in self-defense mode.

To fail to disczern this is both Czilly and Cztupid.

so far this has been a great thread. civil, and rational debate.

Haven't had a single slide stop break, but wonder if any machinests on this board would reccomend/build ones out of a more durable material, titanium, maybe? Not being smart a$$, seriously. I may grab a few extra factory ones JIC, but I haven't had the issue arise yet.
Grips? Use CT Lasergrips, or the work of the outstanding Hakan Pek.
Never had a spring issue.
Don't do the Czpelling thing much, as Cz together makes a "ch" sound. Unless I am czomping at the bit for my next CZ, it really doesn't make much sense, but it can be fun!:neener:

Logos,

I know a lot of folks that have never had a single problem with CZs and trust their lives to them. The CZ slide stop issue is overblown, it's not as common as the internet would have you believe. The same goes for the spring issue, they fail for a small number but work great for the vast majority.

I've been luck to have traveled abroad and met lots of interesting people. You'd be surprised at CZ's popularity and how many professionals carry CZs in high risk environments.

I'd forget about all the minor gripes about small sights, non-Wolff springs, and potentially fragile slidestops if CZ would come out with a carry-friendly compact chambered in .45 ACP. :)

Maybe CZ should have a deal with Wolff and simply sell the guns with Wolff springs instead of Wimp springs?

Duh!

Why not sell it with a good trigger in the first place?

Duh!

Slide stop?

Duh!

The few dollars those things would add to the price of the gun?

Most would HAPPILY pay that cost......(we end up paying it anyway eventually....and we also pay in aggravation, time and transport to gunsmiths).


My contention exactly.

The same goes for the spring issue, they fail for a small number but work great for the vast majority.

The Wolff spring they sent me was two or three times longer than the original......and heavier.

I'm glad it's in......would the old one have caused a malfunction at a critical moment?

So I really should replace the rest of the springs, I guess.

I put about 100 rounds of the cheap ammo through it today and had three malfunctions, all with the original two mags that came with the gun. Two aftermarket mags did fine (the springs feel stronger, harder to load).

At the end, I put 15 quick rounds of Win. Silvertip through it without a bobble.....that's a new 14 round mag I bought direct from CZ. The other ones are 10s.

So, where does that leave me? I'm still not sure I want to keep it. It's a great gun, but now I need to either throw away the two original mags or put new springs in them and keep bending the lips now and then as they get out of kilter.

I know some people love such tinkering, but it's a pain for me.

I'm thinking about trading it and a Sako .22 in on a pair of Glock 26s.

They tell me that Glocks require cleaning, but little tinkering. I can do that.

In about 4 months, I'll be able to tell you more about the AR24. By then, I will have had several thousand rounds through it, and would not mind recommending it. I only have a little over 700 at the moment based upon two range visits.

I hope to put another 300 through it this weekend. It is a CZ type design, and it appears to be very well made. From my time with it so far, it is a strong hopeful for the those who like the ergonomics of the CZ, but mabe do not like the quality control.

No gun is perfect, but the CZ 75 variants are the best bang for buck gun out there. They're one of the best guns in the world, IMO. Just ask someone who is into competitive pistol shooting. Everyone I've ever met who is a serious competitive pistol shooter loves the CZ 75. One gentlemen whose credentials are phenomenal as far as pistol shooting goes told me, "That's one of the best guns in the world."

Every person who's ever shot my CZ 75 BD has commented on what a great gun it is. They all comment on the ergonomics and accuracy, and how "smoothly" it shoots. Even my wife, who at first thought it was heavy (all steel, full sized) loved shooting it the first time I took her. Now she thinks it's a great gun.

Could you buy a better pistol? Probably, but you'd spend a hell of a lot more money on it, and there's really nothing the CZ 75 won't do, IMO. At most, if you have a problem, you might need to swap out a spring or something ridiculously cheap and easy like that.

Dobe,

Aren't the early reports of the Armalite that it jams a lot? Glad yours is working out, but I'm keeping my CZs. ;)

Logos,

Have you returned your compact to CZUSA? If so, what they offer as a fix? I would try some MecGar mags, I've never had a problem with them. But if it continues to malfunction, then move on to something else. Anyone can make a lemon, and I've seen my share of lemons from nearly every company.

I'd just like to give my thoughts.

My very first center-fire handgun was a CZ-75B I bought from Academy Sports for ~$405. I was going to get a Glock or a CZ. When I went to the store and held both, I picked the CZ. To me, the CZ-75 has a very elegant look to it. It's also very tight tight and robust feeling. And while the DA trigger pull is very long and my extremely small hands can barely touch the trigger, the SA is just fine and I never have to shoot it any other way.

I honestly thought I had made a mistake after shooting it once or twice, because I couldn't hit anything. Two thousand rounds and a lot of reading later I can really punch holes with this gun and I've grown to love it. I've changed absolutely nothing with this gun and it has had only 1 malfunction. It hasn't happened again in several hundred rounds though, so that problem may have been a fluke.

I don't own many guns, so take this for what you will, but I can also appreciate how easy the gun is to field strip. My other semi-auto is a Ruger MkII and field stripping that gun is a pain to say the least (I really don't like having to wack the upper and lower parts of the gun apart). The CZ is just: half cock, pull back slide, push out slide stop, walla!

I really don't like it when I hear that the CZ is the best "bang for the buck" or "a great value". That may be true, but it implies a certain cheapness both of the buyer and of the gun. The CZ-75 is a fantastic gun, period, which can hold its own against any darn SIG, HK, Glock, Walther, 1911, etc...

Dobe,

Aren't the early reports of the Armalite that it jams a lot? Glad yours is working out, but I'm keeping my CZs.



I've read one article in a most recent gun magazine monthy release which tested the standard size and the compact size. The article reported malfunctions. The standard size jammed about every 100 rounds. The gun was sent back and returned with an adjusted or repalced extractor. It functioned well after that. Personally, I wouldn't want even, as the author of that article wrote, a 1% malfunction rate. That is far too much, and I'm glad he was honest.

I am accumilating ongoing range information and posting some resuts on AR15.com. Just look under Handguns, and then Armalite. I have recorded the malfunctions that I have experienced and why those occured. In a nut shell, I have put over 700 rounds through this new model. The first 300 were flawless; the next four hundred resulted in malfuntions of failure to return to battery after total count of approximately 500.

The gun had sludged out. I thought in the begining that the spring was too stiff. I was experincing rounds that were partially chambered along with a retarded motion of the slide movement. I had been told by a factory rep on AR15.com that the AR24 was made for 9mm NATO rounds. So, I assumed the spring may be too stiff for Winchester White Box Value Pak. But, if that were the case, why did it work well for the first 500 rounds? Note: there was an extensve cleaning after the first 300 rounds.

After continual malfuntions, all of the same type, I scratched off what looked to be dried sludge from the feed ramp. The gun ran fine with some retarded slide returns. I have since, cleaned the AR24 well, and will return to the range this week end. I'll let you know. That's why in my above post I stated that I would not recommend the AR24 until a four month period has passed.

Now continuing with your original question, doesn't it jam? I've been doing a lot of internet research (as I haven't seen another at any range I frequent), and all of those I have found that own one really like it. I generally do not use absolutes such as "all", but in this case, the sampling is small, because so few people own them; the AR24 is still quiet new. I expect some problems. If Armalite will work with us, and supply quality parts, I'll buy another. I want the adjustable sight version in 9mm and in .45 ACP when the latter comes out next year.

Anecdotal I know, but my CZ 75B has been perfect for around 700 rounds. I fixed the mag-release issue easily by sticking my finger up the mag base and bending the little piece of metal. Other than putting on some hogue grips, it remains stock. I've dry fired it plenty of times, but don't do it much anymore. The trigger has more creep than, say, a 1911, but I am still easily able to knock the center out of a target from 12 yards. Works for me, and for the right price.

Life's too short to live with an ugly gun, right?

A lot of talk in this thread about CZ 75's...what about the P-01?

Probably the most reliable CZ OTB, and VERY accurate for a gun of its size. It has a nice grip, and curved trigger to cut down on reach - if you have FAT fingers, it won't be comfortable after a while on the range.

I got rid of mine after some trigger spring breaks (bad run of springs) and I finally determined NOT to go with a decocker as they are too hard to detail strip yourself - some smiths will NOT work on a CZ decocker, etc. I want a CZ I can work on myself. I find their CS a bit inconsistent and not always friendly. Other than that, the P01 is a VERY good gun, but can come with a gritty trigger - worse than other CZs.

I have a 4 CZ's and I like them. Two have had some feeding issues (40. Compact), but I think I have solved them.

Not PERFECT, but accurate, very good ergonimics, generally reliable, and they look better than almost any other wondernine.

BUT... with a few minor changes, they would be untouchable - but even after over a decade out of the iron curtain, Eastern Europe has a way to go. They DON'T have a real "please the consumer" mentality.

Concerning CZ springs and slidestops.....

There is nothing really wrong with the standard 14# CZ75 recoil spring, but as a reloader, I replace the original with a 15 or 16# one, that plus the fact that all of my CZ75's were purchased used. Some folks have been trying out the Browning HP springs on their CZ's, since they apparently fit a little better, as the Wolff CZ springs are also made to fit the Tanfoglio/Witness pistols, which have slightly larger diameter guiderods. If the wolff recoil spring is to long for your taste, you can always cut a few coils off. Whenever I've upgraded the recoil spring on my used CZ's, I've also replaced the mag springs with the +10% ones from Wolff, which so far, has resulted in almost 100% reliability.

I've never had a problem with any of my CZ's concerning extractor springs, from a 1984 PreB to a 2003 PCR, and being a reloader, I have an extensive collection of used 9mm brass from many different makers.

Never had a problem with slidestops either, and I don't feel it's a gun design problem, as Tanfoglio has been making CZ clones for around 20 years and I can't remember them having a slidestop issue. I think it has more to do with a bad run of inferior slidestops and/or incorrect frame specs.

I currently own 8 CZ/clone pistols and have owned up to 12 and will be the first to admit that the CZ isn't perfect, but for me, the combination of ergonomics, balance, and accuracy & reliability I've experienced with these pistols leaves me with no desire to own anything else in a handgun.

I'll throw in my 2 cents. I just bought a CZ75B SA. Overall, I like the gun. But1) the factory grips suck. Fortunately the rubber replacement grips are excellent. 2) the trigger sucks, partly due to firing pin safety I guess. 3) I am having probems with stovepipes. The gun is not 100% reliable. 4) The factory sights absolutely suck. And 5) relative to Glocks, XD's, etc. the CZ is a pain to disassemble. But there is also much to like about the CZ 75 SA and I will keep it, if I get it to function reliably.

Does anyone know if a particular time frame has been identified for the slide stop breakages? Is it more prevalant in the military models? (I've always wondered, since most of the military models I've examined seemed to have mushier thumb safeties, so have wondered about other QC/fitment concerns with that run.

I know a lot of folks say the slide stop issue is an isolated problem, or much less of an issue, etc., but when the gunsmith at CZ-USA that does the warranty work on them expresses frustration at the number of broken slide stops he sees, that's not as minuscule as some posit.

It's kind of funny. I want to like the CZ-75 for some reason. It just seems for me, the commonly held euphoria eludes me. Each time I pick mine up, I'm reminded of the things I don't like about them. It's a strange dichotomy for me.

It just seems for me, the commonly held euphoria eludes me. Each time I pick mine up, I'm reminded of the things I don't like about them. It's a strange dichotomy for me.

It's the ergonomics, and the way they and the clones shoot. All they need to do is to get the QC up to standards.