[winstonsmith]

Hey all.

I was wondering if some of you could give me reccomendations about self defense knives. I'm not looking for anything too fancy, a locking flipper with a clip.

But there are knives, and then there are knives . It would be a great help if you guys steered me toward the good and dependable brands.

Unfortunately this will probably be done w/o parental approval, so these knives have to be (ahem) easily procurable.

It will definitely have to be an in-person purchase, and I have a brother who is over 18. He will be more than happy to buy me a knife.

Thanks alot guys.
-Jack

Oh, PS. I'm working a summer job so I have a bunch of money coming in; however I don't want to blow 100 dollars on a knife that might just get confiscated/lost/stolen or some other unforseeable circumstance. I say the maximum is $50. Tell me if you think that is too low.

[Sir Galahad]

Check out the CRKT M16 series. Great knives. The "Big Dog" with 4" blade has a safety you can push to have an extra measure of safety in the lock.

[Combat-wombat]

Hey Winston, what is your price range? Sir Galahad, you mean the M16Z, not the M16, right? The M16s are just too damn expensive. Same thing, I just think they use cheaper (but still good) materials.

[Combat-wombat]

Dang sorry, didn't see the "P.S." at the end of your post. Okay, so $50, hmm...

[winstonsmith]

I realize it sounds like a pittance. It's my second real knife, I don't want to get anything too fancy.

[Combat-wombat]

Okay, you can get the M16-03Z for $50. If you want the same knife, but bigger, and for $65, you can go with the M16-04Z. That's what I would recommend, the bigger one for $15 more.
http://www.crkt.com/m16zytel.html

A Kershaw Ken Onion Blackout is what I normally carry. The MSRP is much more, but if you can find a good deal it can go for $60-$70. It opens VERY fast because it has "assisted open", and is really cool. Also, it is completely legal for concealed carry, assisted open does not legally classify as a switchblade. I got mine for $50 at a gun show, but that was a really good deal and I got it after bargaining for about an hour. Plus, I don't know if any gun shows ever come there. Don't bother with smaller Kershaw knives likt the Chive or Scallion or Leek. They are not meant for defensive use. You would be much better off with one of the CRKTs above than with a Kershaw Chive.
http://www.kershawknives.com/kenonionhome.htm

Those are the main ones I can think of in your range, and they are good knives.

[Bruz]

Unfortunately this will probably be done w/o parental approval,

OK Winston, I'll play the "bad guy". Why do you have to buy it w/o your parents approval? How old are you? We just went over this subject but it may be important to you to re-visit it, if it is not legal (through parents or law) to carry should you not wait until it is legal to do so? Do your parents not want you to have a knife because of the law or other reasons?

That said, I have bought several fine used knives at a great price on this and other forums. I would rather have a great used knife than an OK new one. Most of the used knives are in like new condition. As CW said Kershaw makes a good knife, as does Benchmade and Spyderco, and have models in your range.

[winstonsmith]

I am 15 years old. My parents would not want me to have a knife because it would be *dangerous.*

Course, thats not mentioning the fact of how dangerous it could be if I don't have one.

[hso]

There are endless reviews at bladeforums and knifeforums on every type of knife. Spend some time reading over there.

I will second CRKT and add Timberline to the good inexpensive knife recommendations. Take a look at closeouts and discontinued models of the more expensive brands. Often a knife is dropped to make room for a new model and not because it was an inferior product.

The used market is a good source also. Lots of folks at BF and KF are rotating their existing knives for the new NEW thing and perfectly good knives are available for well below discount prices.

At 14 I'm not sure that a knife is the answer. This raises all sorts of questions, but primary is that a knife without training is less than a 10th as effective as one with. There should be tons of schools in your area that teach arts that include weapons in their program. Spend your money there and develop some skills. Just like a gun isn't magic neither is a knife and using deadly force should be done with control and knowledge.

[Sir Galahad]

:evil: Ahem...yes...well...How many of our parents even now know half the things we were doing as teens? Yep. Boy, it brings back memories, I tell ya. I'm sittin' here a-gigglin' even now just to think about it. Of course, when I was a teen in Cali, we didn't have a lot of these stupid rules. By the time I was 16, I was already buying my own cigars by the box by myself. No one cared and the law just said "cigarettes" at the time. That's the least of it. :evil: Not telling this young man to break any laws or go against parents, mind you. But, hell, if my folks knew the half of what I did....Like the time we figured out that the clerks at Pic & Save didn't know the apple cider they were selling was really HARD cider with a 11% alcohol content! Woooo, did we ever get blasted weekends down by the arroyo! "Goin' down to the wash to look for fossils. Be back later!" Or the time my folks didn't realize that really wasn't colored water in the Jim Beam decanter collection they bought from a yard sale. But it was after I got through with it. :evil: Hell, that was 7th grade! But I turned out all right. Well, I think. Sorta. Maybe...Hell, it's only a knife. Ain't like he's sneaking into a sporting house.:evil: That puts me to mind of the time...:evil:

[Bruz]

I am 15 years old. My parents would not want me to have a knife because it would be *dangerous.*

How "logical" are your parents? If you sat them down and educated them on your needs for self defense how would they react? If you first got some training (like Brownies California training class in November), would that make them more comfortable?

No since buying a knife and trying to hide it, they will find it and then think you have a "problem" with knives...you should consider starting, with their permission, with a small folding knife, open their mail for them, etc. and show them you know how to use it. Take a class and then move up on the size of your knife. They might even end up buying you a nice knives for your birthday presents!

[Combat-wombat]

Winston, a person as smart as you should be able to hide something like a knife from your parents. I do it all the time, I've hidden $#!*loads of firecrackers, and other things which I probably shouldn't mention from my parents for years. Really, buy a knife through your brother, your ability to defend yourself is mmuch more important than your parents' liberal beliefs about those evil knives.

[Penforhire]

Here's another vote for that Ken Onion (Kershaw) 3.5" Whirlwind. I know the steel's a crappy 440 but it sharpens nicely, I like the assisted opening, and the size & blade shape (big belly and serrated section) are 'just right' to me.

[Sir Galahad]

The advantage of the CRKT M16 is that the push-stud for opening becomes a guard to prevent fingers from slipping on to the blade. The M16 is lightning fast opening. I just got another M16-04Z "Big Dog" to match my other for my other pocket. I also have a Kershaw Ken Onion Blackout and a Whirlwind with the Blackout's stud reversed for left-hand opening. When I carry two knives, I want them identical or close to it.

Boy, o, boy, when I was a kid, all boys had pocket knives. We all had .22s and 20 gauge or .410 shotguns, too. Has society really become this pansyfied and wimpyfied??!! Ai, to think a teen becoming a man can't have a knife?! This country is sliding down to wimpdom. :rolleyes:

[Baba Louie]

OK winstonsmith, let me play the "old man spoil sport" here (being 48 years of age and a father)...

Why would you specify a "self-defense" knife as opposed to a "pocket knife" such as a 3 bladed stockman or a (shudder cause its uncool) Boy Scout or Swiss Army equivalent... you know; one big blade, one bottle opener/screwdiver, a can opener and an awl? Whereas that particular type of knife design is a slip joint as opposed to a locking type of blade, they are much more "parent tolerant" and can also be used for "self defense" should you find the need to (shudder) cut someone/thing who's out to put the hurt on you.

There, I got that out of the way.

Now rush down to Wally World and look at the Kershaw line of Ken Onion designed blades... a "Vapor" should run you about $25 or less. A smaller "Leek" makes a great money clip but will cost about $30 or a little more. Both have clips and a frame lock, made in China (hence the cheap cost) and should they be confiscated, you're only out a twenty and a ten spot.

CRKT as mentioned has great value for the bucks spent. Any one of a number of them should do.

check out these sites:

www.1sks.com
www.discountknives.com
www.cutleryshoppe.com
www.knifeworks.com

Maybe buy your pa and/or ma a small SAK Classic with a small blade, nail file, tweezers and toothpick... several colors... maybe throw in one for yourself as well to broach the subject from a non-dangerous tool point of view.

At your age, good running shoes would probably be your best bet to get your young butt outta any trouble your mouth might get you into (at least my mouth was ALWAYS the single factor that got my rear-end in predicaments when I was your age... but that was another time and place, neh?)

Keep us posted.

Adios

[.41Dude]

Hey Winston. I have read the other posts. A LOT of good advice.
But might I suggest an alternative for your protection?
Go pick up a good philips screwdriver. Something from Craftsman at Sears. About a 4 or 5 inch shank should do it. If someone is going to put his hands on you to do you harm, being stuck once or twice should make them think of finding a new hobby.
The downside is you will be limited to just a couple of thrust options.
The upside is screwdrivers are legal everywhere.
The LAW will not say "This kid was looking for trouble, see he was carrying a screwdriver."
I gave the same advice to my son and daughter, they are both grown now and NEVER had to use the tool to protect themselves.
They both went to a school where pocket knives such as a BOY Scout knife or pen knife were a bigger no-no than smoking dope out in the parking lot.
Times have changed. But the right to protect yourself is still

YOUR RIGHT.

[rebbryan]

you can't even carry screwdrivers now in school :uhoh:

i recently purchased a belt/boot/IWB CRKT Ryan somethin somethin, works nice. i also carry a gerber gator knife, and some odd $3.50 knives that could still do some good damage if needed

[Don Gwinn]

If you think no one would think he was looking for a fight by carrying a screwdriver, you haven't heard the latest. People are pretty hip to that one now.

Personally, if I wanted to spend less than $50 on a nice knife that will be sharp, reliable, and well-designed and crafted, I'd look for someone selling Spydercos and try 'em until I found one I liked. My Spyderco Native was $39, and it was the best 40 bucks I ever spent until it was stolen. You can get the Zytel Endura for about the same price.

Only you can decide whether you should be purchasing and carrying a knife if your parents don't approve. True enough, we all did things our parents didn't approve of. Personally, I always ended up regretting it later. Then again, my parents never told me I couldn't have a bloomin' pocketknife. You're going to find later in life that your parents were right about a lot of things. In this case, I agree with you that they're not being very reasonable, but then that's the sort of thing I would say, isn't it? No matter what anyone tells you, you do owe your parents a certain amount of respect even when they're wrong. Have you ever sat your parents down and explained to them why you feel the need to carry a "tactical" knife? Ever thought that if it's your safety you're worried about, maybe they would be more amenable to some compromise like pepper spray or training in empty-hand techniques? In most situations that require a fight at age 15, boxing lessons at your local gym will get you farther than a knife. Frankly, unless the other guy has a weapon or you're outnumbered, pulling a knife will be legal suicide.

Also frankly, if you're going to carrry a knife as your sole means of defense, you need to think long and hard about whether you know what's involved. Are you willing to accept the fact that you may have to slice through an attacker's skin, his flesh, his muscle, his sinews? Are you prepared to feel the blade part his muscles and tissues, feel warm, thick blood gushing over your hands and flecking your face, and to feel the rasping of the blade as it bites into bone and has to be yanked away? Makes me a little sick just writing it.

I don't mean to discourage you from carrying a good defensive knife, necessarily, but it's not a magic talisman. Like everything else in the real world, it has petals and thorns. You should be very clear on which is which before you try to solve a problem with it.

[Smoke]

Kershaw
S&W S.W.A.T.
others

[Combat-wombat]

Don't get S&W. I've had a S&W and it sucked. I personally don't like spyderco because I like the thumbstud rather than the hole. I think you should go with CRKT or Kershaw Ken Onion (only Ken Onion, not their other knives, and not the chive, leek or scallion). On your budget CRKT M16zs are a little more realistic, but if you have the money get a Kershaw Ken Onion Whirlwind or Blackout. Still, there's nothing wrong with CRKT. If you want one, by all means get it. Of course, the AUS6M steel on the CRKT is a little lower quality than the 440A on the Kershaw. It is more corrosion resistant though.

[redneck]

For low cost high quality knives, in the less than $50 range, you can't beat spyderco's clip it lineup. A delica or endura would serve you very well. The delica is still one of my favorite knives EVER.

That said, I hope you will consider this from a utilitarian point of view more than the self defense issue. And think long and hard about going behind your parents backs! Trust is hard earned and easily lost.
I make knives, and have been carrying all sorts everyday for years now. I don't know where you live, or what your daily routine is like, but there is a 99% chance you will have more than a million oportunities to use a knife for utility purposes for every time you have to use it for self defense.
Also remember that deadly force is deadly force regardless of the instrument used. A knife can be used very effectively as a weapon, but it should be a last ditch effort, and is probably one of the most traumatic methods of self defense to use. The results are very gory and you are right in the middle of it.

[Combat-wombat]

Thumbstuds are better. I don't like spyderco's opening hole. They're ugly as hell, too.

[Graystar]

The knife I'd recommend for self-defense cost at least 90 bucks. I would look at the Benchmade series of knives with the AXIS locking mechanism, thumb post, and pocket clip.

The AXIS lock is the strongest locking mechanism available. The knife will destoy itself before it ever closes on you. The thumb posts makes opening the knife with one hand fast and easy. The pocket clip keeps the knife concealed but ready for use, and is reversible for left or right hand use.

I have a 710HSSR. Awesome knife.

http://www.benchmade.com

http://www.newgraham.com/benchmad.htm

http://www.jtknives.com/bm-710-705.jpg

[winstonsmith]

Baba, I do have a pocket knife.

That is a good idea however. There is a Victorinox knife called the Ranger or some such w/ an approximately 4 inch blade. Of course that's not for cutting people, but its alot more parentally approvable and also less likely to be viewed as a weapon.

Don, that is very good advice. I followed it some of it pre-emptively. I've taken and are taking multiple types of martial arts including kenpo, krav maga, judo, and currently hapkido. However, noone knows how they will react in those situations. Before I got held up at knifepoint I told myself that I would be chill, remembering details and everything. When it happened my knees were quaking, all I could remember was that they were african american, and there were three of them.

Not only would pulling a knife be legal suicide, it might even be practical suicide. Cause if you pull a knife and it isn't a kill/maim or die situation it just might become one. Of course I would only use the knife if it my death/maiming or theirs.

So I don't know. I can stomach thinking about it. Doing it (g-d forbid) will be another matter.

I do think if the other choice was myself or friends/family getting hurt, I could do it.

A less messy alternative is a spring baton like an ASP. What I see as the good points of this is that you only would need limited or no training to be effective. I mean, it's a stick. It also has a farther reach. Disadvantages are that there is no utility excuse for it. Tell me what you think.

[Andrew Wyatt]

a leatherman wave is a good self defense tool, as well as a needlenose gerbertool. they generally don't take multitools from people who're caught with them on campus.

[JShirley]

winston,

Your writing style is quite literate, and you seem like a thoughtful guy. That counts for a lot, certainly.

Your parents' opinion counts, too. Knives are often a grey area where law enforcement is concerned, but how your parents feel, I think, is considerably more important.

If your "need" is self-defense, then I suggest a miniMag flashlight. Someone with your obvious dedication to training will be able to master a simple manual of arms in very little time (think "yarawa/eda koppo"), and a small flashlight just isn't menacing.

As far as knives go, I would first think about getting something small and obviously "untactical". Use it safely around your parents to bring home the idea that the knife is a tool and you are using it wisely.

Give 'em time,

John

[winstonsmith]

A big 10-4 on that parental opinion counting thing.

However, they grew up in the suburbs of chicago. They don't know what it is to be a skinny, pale, gangly jewish boy in San Francisco.

I'm not going to spend my last moments suffocating on my own blood in some stinking alley somewhere, thinking about how glad I am that I'm an obedient son.

Question: I'm looking at the Cold Steel Ti-lite Zytel, found here: http://store.yahoo.com/csstoreonline/tilites.html . I like this knife, and I've heard alot of good things about it. And it's quite beautiful. However, two people I trust nay-said. One had grip slip concerns and the other thinks the steel used is low quality. Please advise.

[Sir Galahad]

Being a parent doesn't automatically make someone right. In the end, a person of an age cognitive of self-defense needs to decide for him/her self what needs be done. Not saying to go against your parents, but only you know what you need to do. Just know that if you parents discover your knife, they'll probably be sending you away for a few years of psychological counseling after school. But, you have to decide for yourself what you need to do.

The Ti-Lite is ok, but I find the flipper on the blade to be too sharp once the blade is opened. The CRKT M16 is much better, much faster, and more comfortable.

[Bruz]

Check out http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1403&item=2180823571 , they have Kershaw Whirlwind and Blackout (plain and serrated blade) for $30. with free shipping! They are new but with no box. I bought both and the guy is great to deal with.

[winstonsmith]

I went to a knife store today, and held a few knives. They consisted of an SOG Flash, a Kershaw (whirlwind I think) and a Smith an Wesson Recon.

I really liked the SOG and the Kershaw. The S&W was way to heavy for my tastes, and not ergonomic at all. The Kershaw was utterly perfect, and I would have picked it except for the fact that the SOG had a great feature: A safety.

I don't know about you, but the idea of putting a sharp spring loaded object next to my crotch is not my idea of safe.

how likely is the Kershaw to open accidentally? What if I put pressure on the stud unknowingly?

Still havent seen a ti-lite zytel anywhere. I'll keep my eyes open.

[Sir Galahad]

Never had my Kershaws open in my pocket. You just have to make sure you don't sit there with your hands in your pockets fiddling around with it. If you can, try a CRKT M16. Find a blade shop that has these. These can be zipped open quicker than lightning and the flipper becomes a guard that keeps your fingers from sliding on to the blade in use. They're well-made, easy to clean, fast, reliable, strong, and easy to carry. The one just a tad smaller than the biggest has a version that comes with a spear-point blade very similar looking to the Ti-Lite blade.

[Bruz]

and I would have picked it except for the fact that the SOG had a great feature: A safety.

For self defense I do not have a safety on my knives or my gun...my Kershaw Leek came with a safety that I "disabled". Never had a problem.

[winstonsmith]

Ok, I have a selection of knives I will choose from when it comes time for that.

Now on to the home front. Andrew Wyatt has reccomended that I get a list of the knives I want, I show it to my dad, and show him the various ones, and how safe they are.

Then the discussion will progress to my whole reason for wanting a knife. I will argue that with the continuance of the teen ages I will stay out later and go into worse neighborhoods. Thus the likelyhood of an encounter where a weapon is needed is increased. They will say, "Well if your going into a neighborhood where you'll get into a knife fight we don't want you going there!"

I will point out that I got mugged right next to my high school, and shows that anythign can happen anywhere.

I will then say, "As a cognitive entity, I beleive I have an inalieable right to self defense. Would you agree?" How can they not?

Then we will squabble about the legalities. I will refer them to Jim Marches website (and other good ones if you can refer them to me).

If you can think of anywhere I can tighten up my side of the debate, please help.

If worse comes to worst I can always get the Wenger Ranger, a pocketknife with a 4 inch locking blade. :rolleyes:

[Sir Galahad]

If all else fails, invest in a pair of steel-toed boots. Always remember, when a person kicks a guy, he goes for the SIDE of the knee. After a boot to the gonads, that'll take the fight out of anyone. Bear in mind though, a kick to the side of the knee if done hard enough will cripple, so this is only for self-defense. But I am not advocating anyone to use that and I have only mentioned it for entertainment and conjectural purposes, any resemblance to any advocation of tactics is purely coincidental.

[winstonsmith]

Already got some, Galahad.

:neener: :evil:

[hso]

SG,

Having had 3 ACL replacements with miniscus repair I can tell you that a hard blow to the side of the knee is debilitating, requires repair and rehab, but crippling it is not. Of course it means you won't be standing immediately following the blow and you won't be running anyone down for a few months.:evil:

winstonsmith,

The the Ti-lites are interesting knives built to be interesting. They were not built because of the outstanding practicality.

Your MA studies are good, but look to be scattered. Narrow the focus and concentrate of becoming competent and automatic at just one or two. Focus on those that allow you to escape from multiple attackers. The Hapkido is very good at this. Work on a strong back kick, escapes and throws. Compliance holds are for when you can afford to hang around. Ask your Master to work on some jo and shorter stick techniques and knife disarms when they think you are ready.

Find out if an ASP baton is legal for you to carry in CA, it may not be. And you are dead wrong about not needing any training in it's use. Cave a guys head in and you're going to be charged and probably convicted of felony murder or manslaughter. Your folks will bankrupt themselves paying for your hubris. Break his arm, disable a nerve plexus, etc. and you'll probably get off with a self defense rulling and your college fund gone in place of your defense fund

I've carried knives all my life. I've studied various MA all my adult life. I'm the opposite of some hulking 250lb lumberjack. I've survived 2 attacks and 1 life threatening attack with only minimal injuries (during the last one). Training, not some talisman, paid off. During none of them did I pull my knife.

[Gordy Wesen]

Winston. I've read your posts, you don't need a knife.
When you do need a knife it should be one you can Work with.
In the meantime I'd enroll in a practical martial arts school...stuff that works in the real world and includes disarming techniques.
Knives and guns for a man are aquired after one has made himself - in body and mind - a person of substance.
For example, you can't move onto a small farm with no experience...experiences like vehicle repair, maintenance, livestock care, butchering, carpentry, heavy equipment operation, bookeeping etc. Whe one has accumulated skills like this then he is ready for a bigger package of responsibilities.
Slow down and enjoy the process.
"Arriving" prematurely aborts soil preparation and good fruit.
But this is what your Dad is going to tell you, isn't it?

:scrutiny: :)

[Combat-wombat]

Winstonsmith has been mugged at knifepoint before. He feels that it is necessary to have some means of defense rather than just his hands. A knife is a good way to do this, and although one needs training to do this most effectively, one can operate a knife without training, and in a life threatening situation, it is much better than his bare hands.

[winstonsmith]

Sure I don't need a knife, but I want one.

So nobody is going to help me convince my parents? If I convince them of this, convincing them about the RKBA will be so much easier.

[Bruz]

So nobody is going to help me convince my parents?

Mom, Dad, ever since I was mugged I have been afraid to walk on the street. I could of been killed because I did not have any protection. I respect you both and your decisions so I have not bought a knife and hidden it from you. May I get a knife for last resort self defense? No? Then what can I do to show you that I am mature enough to carry one? If I take a training class and the instructor says I am ready for one, may I get one then?

This may not get you a knife today but it should at least get you the steps your parents require to get one in the future.

[JShirley]

what can I do to show you that I am mature enough to carry one? If I take a training class and the instructor says I am ready for one, may I get one then?

Very nice.

Don't get me wrong- I'm a hardline RKBA believer [ie-I'm on your side]. I also believe that knives are much less effective for self defense without training than firearms, and that effective alternative solutions should also be examined.

Peace,

John

[Combat-wombat]

Winston should take a defensive knife class once he gets the knife. Maybe a SF class with brownie might work. Does Jim March know of any knife classes in San Francisco?

[biggrizz]

grow up and live life, before you get some that you can cut your finger off. join the boyscouts. thats a place for people your age.

[winstonsmith]

You guys don't seem to get it. I'm getting the knife so I CAN grow up and live life.

Living in a city is dangerous. I've found that out already.

[JShirley]

Again, I assure you that I appreciate your motivation, bro. I'm just saying don't believe there is only one solution to your challenge. Ultimately, it will be you, not the tool, that will give the protection. I hope that's a little clearer.

[winstonsmith]

Ok, so the "you guys" didn't include Jshirley ;)

It's not like I'm going to go around stabbing things. The chances of getting into another situation like I was in are minimal. The chances of me using the knife are even slighter.

So why do I need the knife?

Well, I don't need it, I certainly want it. I mean, I'm far enough behind the RKBA cycle, why not get started?

[hso]

The reasons to get the training first and the knife second are numerous. Here are a few -

1. A knife is a tool. Learning to use the tool before having to bet your life on knowing how to use it is only prudent. 6 months of training that includes knife will make you a beginning tool user.

2. A knife is a lethal force tool. This makes learning to use it even more important. Kill a BG because you didn't know how to do anything other than stab him over and over again means you get to "repent in leasure" as a guest of the state.

3. A knife is not an easy lethal force tool to use well. As others who have spent time in training and have been forced to resort to that training to protect themselves will tell you a knife isn't the easiest weapon to use well. A few well placed strikes with a knife can disable and put doubt in the mind of a previously arrogant attacker. OTHH, A kid waving a knife around will get the stuffing kicked out of him by a couple of toughs who have taken a cut once or twice (if it ends there). Train to destroy the fear within you so that the predator sees your determination and skill and not your fear.

4. Using the knife inceases the confrontation level. If you are robbed at knifepoint you were only robbed. If you feel that you are under threat of great bodily harm or death the robbery is secondary. If you pull a knife in response to an armed robbery you had better be certain that you are personally at risk and you had better act to remove that threat. No bluffing, no posturing - act. You do not need to kill your assailant, but you might (more likely if you don't know what you're doing). You will have taken the situation to a new level that you will be held responsible for (that sounds wrong on so many levels, but is factually accurate in a legal sense).

5. Any idiot can point a gun at someone and make the opponenet believe that they might die if they don't surrender the field. This isn't the case with a knife. It takes work to make a knife effective and truely bad guys know this.

Fear is the minds way of telling us that we are at great risk and something needs to be done. Uncontrolled fear comes from not knowing what it is that needs to be done. Fear is good, it motivates us to get off our butts. Uncontrolled fear is bad in that it makes us do things that do not make sense. Protecting yourself from violence is natural, selecting a tool to make up for the lack of size, strength, fangs, claws, etc. is only reasonable, learning how to use that tool is the mark of intelligence.

[Sir Galahad]

Silly me, I grew up adopted into a Southren family where growing up meant getting a folding knife as a boy and a .22 and a shotgun as a teen. I had several folders and a sheath knife before I was 14. In fact, I worked after school delivering handbills to buy that sheath knife. At 16, I got a .22 rifle for my birthday. For Christmas, I got a single-shot 20 gauge shotgun. Fer cryin' out loud, where does "growing up" involve NOT learning how to cut, stick, dress, shoot, fish, hunt, set a trap, cook up a mess o' fish over a fire, and doctor a huntin' dog? Well, ok, maybe in the city that's hard to do all of that. But, jeez, it's a folding knife. Not a Humvee-mounted TOW.

I agree with training to an extent. The caveat is that plenty of trained people freeze the frick right up when the cards are supposed to be laid down. Saw an in infantry E-6 freeze right up right out the door of the Crashhawk in Air Assault School. He would not rappel down if he had to to save his life. I bet they could have put a few rounds at him and he'd of hung right there gripping the rope. Instructor had to go out there and get him from under the bird. That E-6 let his fear overcome his training. I was scared sh*tless, but I was more scared of the AAsslt instructors than falling. So when they said "Go, Go, Go!!" I couldn't get out of that bird fast enough. Was that training or just mere channeled fear that allowed me to do that? Who knows? I got the wings first try, though. Seen supervisors trained in first aid freeze right up seeing a guy bleeding all over the floor from a bunch of deep cuts from broken glass. I fell back on my training I had in high school and the army. That and the fear of this co-worker dying before my eyes and me saying to myself, "You idiot! You could have HELPED that man!!!" So, training is good, but not everyone can be helped by it. If nothing else, read some quality books and train yourself if you have no other options. Most of my retained first aid knowledge is that which I read. I have an odd memory that can "see" pages of books in my mind, so it's better for me to visualize a retained memory on some things. Not saying to do this. Just giving options here.

Survival begins with the Will. The Will to survive, coupled with being abe to fear something greater than what you are faced with in order to ACT decisively, is what works for me. Each must find his own Medicine.

[winstonsmith]

Hey guys, thanks for all your help.

Convincing my dad was real easy. Turns out he has a knife fetish. He showed me his Gerber Folder from all the way back in '82. Frugal as he is, he was hoping to pass this off to me, but I would not be sated. Damn, I wanted that knife. It would have been cool to have a sort of heirloom like that (we don't have many of those in this family) but I'm sure I'll get it eventually, and I really want that Blackout.

So he made me promise a few things:

1) Don't stab living animals or people
2) Don't brandish it in public
3) Don't bring it to school (Big nono.. immediate expulsion, no tolerance :rolleyes: :barf: )
4) Don't by foreign knives without being sure of the quality.

Other than that, his main concern was where Kershaws were made.

Thanks for all your help!

Should I give a full report when it actually reaches my hands?

[Bruz]

Convincing my dad was real easy.

Cool! I think I am happier that you did the right thing than I am you getting the knife, but congrats!

[hso]

If your dad has a closet enthusiasm for knives - get one for each of you and you've worked the heirloom issue in both directions. You might find that there's a good father/son collection to start also.

[winstonsmith]

Hmmm... I think I will get him a knife. His birthday is coming up pretty soon. Less than a month. Thanks for the great idea HSO.

Bruz, I'm glad I did the right thing too.

[Dave Markowitz]

Glad to hear you were able to sell your dad on the knife.

A few good, economical knives would be the Spyderco Endura and Delica, and the Benchmade Griptilian.

I carried a Delica for years up until I lost it a few weeks ago. :banghead: Since then I've carried a Benchmade Griptilian BM550 (stainless, plain edge). It's the cheapest knife out there with the Axis lock. I can't recommend it highly enough.

If you can, try out a few different knives so that you know that your choice feels good in your hand. Also, you may find that you prefer either thumbstuds or an opening hole.

[Bruz]

Bruz, I'm glad I did the right thing too.

Winstonsmith, sounds like your Dad has good reason to trust you..."taking the high road" is not always the easiest path, but always ends up being the best path. Gee, guess it will be easy for them to chose the next gift to give you eh? Make sure you give them a web site to the knives you want instead of just hinting. ;)

I just got Kershaws Blackout and Whirlwind...good knives, assisted opening, feels good in the hand, and snagged them for $30. each shipped through a guy at E-bay. New but no box, good guy to deal with, and he has more.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1403&item=2181438521

[hso]

WS,

Think hard about the conversation you had with him for any hints in what he may like. Also, consider getting some of the company literature on products to go over with him. "Dad, what do you think about these for my first knife.", allows you to watch what he reacts to as much as getting him involved in your choice of knife. If he likes a nice amber pick bone Case that you wouldn't want to be seen buying 'cause it's too old fashioned or a SAK with watch and LED light because it's too "nerdy" just tell him that looks interesting and note his interest. My dad carried a small Case black pick bone pen knife and wasn't the least interested in any of the knives I had. Got a pearl version of that old knife for him and he put it up and wouldn't carry it. Now that he's gone I carry it for him sometimes.