[KC]

I was at my parents' house this morning. We got into at first a discussion, then an arguement, about an article in the newspaper.


The author of the aforementioned article stated that the American standing in world opinion would improve dramatically if only we would force Bush and his advisors to attend "cultural sensitivity training" (his words, not mine.) The author was complaining that the European view of GW Bush was more akin to John Wayne than Winston Churchill (ignoring Churchill's earlier career as a cavalier war correspondant, and escaped prisoner of the Boers during the late 19th century conflict in southern Africa.)

To cut an entirely too long an exchange short, my parents wound up supporting the terrorist organizations like Hamas (and their practice of killing random civilians in numbers,) and excoriated Bush and Israel Sharon's habit of killing the leadership of those terrorist organizations, with a minimum of civilian casualities.


I decided to leave, before I said anything that would have lasting consequences. Things involving words like "appeasement," "gross stupidity," "deliberate short-sightedness," and "vile," along with phrases like, "peace in our time".
But what do I know?

[cool45auto]

Sounds like leaving was the best thing to do at that time.:)

[GD]

You are normal. Who wants to be liked by the rest of the world? - the world is screwed up.

[Moparmike]

Yes, leaving was the best thing to do. I often want to have a detailed conversation with my stepfather, who doesnt agree that everyone (every rational human being, anyway) should own firearms. He is also from Ohio:rolleyes: . Not a stab at any Ohio THR'ers out there, but you know as well as anyone they arent the most conservative people on Earth.

What I want to know is why they consider it an insult to have a president compared to John Wayne. I may not like Dubya, but I find having anyone in our gov compared to JW is a compliment to the nation. OTOH, comparing some is insulting JW.:D

[M2 Carbine]

Leaving sounded like the thing to do.

I'm afraid I would not have followed my own advice though.

I could never walk away from something like this.

"To cut an entirely too long an exchange short, my parents wound up supporting the terrorist organizations like Hamas (and their practice of killing random civilians in numbers,) and excoriated Bush and Israel Sharon's habit of killing the leadership of those terrorist organizations, with a minimum of civilian casualities."

Personally I would have asked them if they would still support these cowards like Hamas if the victims were their children or grand children.
Or is it just OK to murder other people's children.

You can also remind them that the cowards were murdering children long before President Bush and Sharon were around.

If you get into it with them again don't let them use the liberal tactic of not answering the question (because they don't have an answer) and instead asking you a question back. Make them answer your question first. Liberals hate that.

But, no offence, I think your parents have a serious mental problem if they support Hamas blowing up a school bus full of children. :(

[Majic]

Leaving seems like the best option you had. Why shouldn't Bush be compared to John Wayne (an American) as opposed to Winston Churchill (an Englishman)? Stories of Churchill vary far and wide. It has been told of how he had American blood on his hands to save England. He was instrumental in getting the Lusitainia (sp) sunk to involve us in WWI and it is reported that he slowed information to us about the possible attack on Pearl Harbor to involve us in WWII. If these stories about Churchill is true I can understand the phrase about "keeping a stiff upper lip". The smell of manure from his actions must have been overwhelming.
My apologies to any Britain that I may have offended, but this is my feelings.

[Atticus]

"He is also from Ohio . Not a stab at any Ohio THR'ers out there, but you know as well as anyone they arent the most conservative people on Earth."

?????!!!!

Seven Ohio Republicans and one Whig were elected to the office of US President. Arkansas gave us Bill Clinton. GW.Bush carried Ohio as well. Nuff said.:D

[Bigjake]

naw... if he was anything like john wayne, he would've shown up at the gates of bagdad with a winchester and some navy 6's and hollered " I AIM TO KILL YOU IN ONE MINUIT, SADAMN!"

[Moparmike]

Ok, I hadnt realized that before. My impression of Ohio was quite liberal. I also hear many things about Ohio and their liberal stance on things. My bad.

[jdkelly]

I don't want to take sides in your disscussions on the Middle East. I just want to add information to a couple of statements that perhaps you weren't aware of.

**************************************************
[To cut an entirely too long an exchange short, my parents wound up supporting the terrorist organizations like Hamas (and their practice of killing random civilians in numbers,) and excoriated Bush and Israel Sharon's habit of killing the leadership of those terrorist organizations, with a minimum of civilian casualities.]

KC,

I remember reading that the Arabs are killed at about an 8 to 1 ratio to the Isralies. That means that alot more Arab civilans are killed then Isralie civilians.

***************************************************

***************************************************
[You can also remind them that the cowards were murdering children long before President Bush and Sharon were around]

M2Carbine,

The first Terrorist act I know of in the modern Middle East, was committed just after World War 2 in Jerusalem. It seems that the King David hotel was blown up killing over 100 hundred people. About two dozen British and 80 something Arabs were killed by a bomb planted by what was then Jewish Terrorists/Freedom Fighters.

**************************************************
Terrorism serves those who can't field an adequate army.

I believe my statements to be fairly accurate, I apologize now if I've made an error, please correct me if I'm wrong.

***************************************************

Respectfully

jdkelly

[mercedesrules]

Clearly, your parents are terrorists; immediately turn them in to the proper authorities.

MR

[Standing Wolf]

My parents started out as Eisenhower Republicans, but ended up voting for leftist extremists; fortunately, two of their three children grew up to be staunch conservatives.

[Art Eatman]

When folks go to nattering about Dubya being a "cowboy", I remind them that our previous cowboy-labelled president set in motion some policies that directly led to the Berlin Wall coming down.

So far, the cowboys seem to be freeing more people than whatever a not-cowboy has done.

:), Art

[4v50 Gary]

Argu-mints are never won and be aware that nothing stirs the passion in a man as does politics. Nothing wrong with your views but there is something wrong with folks who write that type of gibberish. Holding hands and singing Kumbaya won't make Bin Laden call off his dogs, aplogize to us and join in a chorus. There are times when the stick must be used and darn if George isn't scared to use it.

[Bigjake]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/donkey500.jpg

[TexasVet]

Glad someone noticed that there are NO good guys in power over there on either side. Just power hungry leaders who sit back and send others to do their killing for them, soldiers on one side and idiot teens on the other. :banghead:

[WonderNine]

You are normal. Who wants to be liked by the rest of the world? - the world is screwed up.

The rest of the world doesn't like the rest of the world. Who cares if some of them don't like us?

[Waitone]

The fact that Europeans have their underwear in a wad over Bush being a cowboy is just fine by me.

I do not suscribe to the view of Europe having a superior culture. Fact is, in my view any society founded in appeasement is superior to no one and no thing.

I love a Dennis Miller line. . . . .You Arabs have your jihad. Well, what we did in Iraq is what we call an American Yee Ha!

[Byron Quick]

Never could understand anyone being compared to John Wayne.
He was booed by wounded Marines in a hospital in Hawaii during WWII.

I'd much rather be compared to an actor such as Jimmy Stewart who spent the war flying combat missions...not making war movies.

[Carlos Cabeza]

If Dubya's a cowboy then Clinton's the innkeeper at the brothel.

[E357]

A fact that jdkelly left out was that the British had taken over the King David Hotel and was using it as headquarters for its military operations in the region. The British officers who died were not there on vacation. They kept survivors of the death camps out of the Israel at gun point to maintain relations with the Arab countries. If you were Arab the British let you come and go as you pleased. In short, the British were not neutrals.

Elliot

[Drjones]

Either your parents are on a lot of drugs, or they are brain-dead liberals.

Sorry, kid.

[cuchulainn]

You did the right thing by not pushing it any farther. Few things are worth hurting your relationship with your folks. They'll be gone before you know it, and their opinions on Arab-Israeli politics won't seem important at all when you realize you can never speak to them in this life again.

I wish my parents were here so I could sit next to them on the couch and listen to them say things I disagree with.

[Russ]

Best to have left. My mother and I used to get into some real bad arguments. I usually felt bad later even though I was always right! All is forgiven now and she is off to her reward but looking back, I could have saved a lot of misery by just shutting up around her.

[Bigjake]

you did the right thing. how much is being "right"worth to you? pry not that much compared to your relationship with the parents.

[Shimmer128]

entire article at: http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/defensewrapper.jsp?PID=1051-350&CID=1051-072902A

"Taking that into account, the ICT concluded that about 579 non-combatant Palestinians (just over 38 percent of all Palestinian casualties) were killed by Israelis and 433 non-combatant Israelis (about 80 percent of all Israeli casualties) were killed by Palestinians. (The noncombatant Israeli fatalities were actually much more than 80 percent of all Israeli casualties before the military battles in Jenin in March.) While Israeli casualties make up about 27 percent of the total fatalities (as they are usually reported in the media), they actually represent about 43 percent of the non-combatant fatalities.

When it comes to Palestinian fatalities, it is also important to note that it is not just the Israelis doing the killing. There has been a steady increase in the number of Palestinians killed, in one way or another, by their own side. Approximately 189 Palestinians were killed while committing a suicide bombing, in "work accidents," in intra-Palestinian conflict, or as so-called "collaborators." These 189 fatalities do not even include "suicide shooters" -- Palestinians who attacked Israelis with the expectation of death, but did not specifically blow themselves up. "

:uhoh:

That being said, there was not much you could do for or to your parents except remain calm, or they will attribute your views as childish (no matter how old you are)
Shimmer128

[jdkelly]

E357(Elliot),

The point I was making with my reference to the bombing of the King David hotel by the terrorist/freedom fighters was simply that combatants on both sides have killed innocents for many years.

Again, I choose no side, but believe it is easy to rationalize atrocities committed on civilians, should a goal you believe in be achieved. Does the fact that two dozen British soldiers were killed off set the killing of six dozen civilians (if those figures are close to accurate)? To some yes to others no. Personally, to some extent, I respect both views.


Shimmer128,

I don’t know the actual causality figures or how they are “interpreted”, broken down, and categorized or by whom. I’m not really sure that I could find a nonbiased source of information. Unfortunately I get most of my “information” from the Video and Print media, and we all know they are neither critical thinkers nor unbiased. But I do believe that the Arabs are killed at a higher rate, perhaps much higher, then the Israelis.

Does it hurt to lose your child to a bomber in a night club, any more then to a tank round in your living room? No, I think not. I do know it’s a terrible thing that two peoples have both a means and a desire to kill one another over land.

Respectfully,

jdkelly