[zahc]

With the new summer heat, my daily carry M&P9c started rusting. First on the end of the recoil spring guide, which I cleaned up, and now on the takedown lever, which won't come off. I clean it at least a couple times a week because I have to take it apart to clean all the pizza flour out of it from work. It rusted in the space of a couple days.

Oh well.

[Geno]

Please post some pictures. I had this problem last summer with my G17. That was a shocker. I never expected a Glock to rust.

I ask for pics because I was just PROMISED, sworn to by the firearms dealer that the M&P can not rust...impossibility! I had stopped to see the G26, and they just would not shut up about the M&P. I finally walked out.

Doc2005

[doofus]

Odd...have you contacted S&W?

Could you post pics?

[zahc]

pics will come in time. patience my dears.

[gudel]

I thought these things are melonited, supposedly hard and pretty much rustproof.
I guess melonite is not as good as tenifer.

[piranha45]

I've read on some melonite vs tennifer thread that the two are made with similar but not identical chemicals, cuz tennifer can't be made in the US due to its chemicals, but melonite IS produced in the US.

[mdao]

The small parts are rusting, not the barrel and slide. Those are the stainless steel, treated, and coated parts. I'd think you'd have to neglect it pretty bad to get the barrel and slide on an M&P to rust.

Even Glock small parts rust.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2193/saltedpartstu6.png

[zahc]

Upon closer inspection the slide is also showing a bit of rust. Just a widdle spot, near the bore.

[AZGlock13]

My guess is S&W only Melonite treats the bare slide and the barrel only. Parts like the take-down lever, slide stop, guide rod, etc. are not treated. I could be wrong though. Is the actual slide and/or barrel itself showing any signs of rust (I sure hope not)? If you find out from S&W that the other gun parts besides the slide and the barrel are not Melonite treated as well, I would talk with Robar in AZ and see what they would charge you to NP3 the parts (that would do the job on stopping the rust on those parts).

Just read your last update. Wow, the actual slide is showing some rust. Yep, get S&W on the phone as soon as you can and explain what is happening, maybe you got a M&P that slipped through the cracks and missed out on getting the Melonite treatment process somehow. Strange.

[Tecolote]

zahc,

Did you use CLP?

mdao,

What's the story with that Glock? FWIW Glock doesn't use any stainless parts, they treat the steel slide and barrel with Tenifer.

[GotGlock]

Thats the torture test glock and it sat encrusted in rock salt and water for a week to get like that.

[DMiculek]

The slide stop/release is not finished in Melonite.
The Melonite process can supposedly cause brittleness in thin parts.

[mdao]

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item

The Glock picture is from a torture test where it sat in salt water for a while. I posted it just to illustrate that any untreated steel part can rust.

Now if the slide is rusting and it's not just dust from the recoil rod... Wow. I'd call S&W.

[Geno]

The rust made that pretty little Glock almost as ugly as Ramblin' Rosie!

Re: the Tenifer finish on Glocks, Tenifer is not the black finish. The black finish is a coating, a whole different matter. According to Glock, Tenifer is a metal treatment of the steel that goes very deep into it, and is extremely hard. In fact, Tenifer is almost as-hard-as hard-chrome. But, Tenifer if not the black finish that can rub off.

mdao: That link is awesome. Even my wife, who is just so-so about firearms thought that was great!

Doc2005

[..]

I thought these things are melonited, supposedly hard and pretty much rustproof.
I guess melonite is not as good as tenifer.
I've read on some melonite vs tennifer thread that the two are made with similar but not identical chemicals, cuz tennifer can't be made in the US due to its chemicals, but melonite IS produced in the US.

Melonite is Tenifer under a different trade name, same process. It's rare, but some peoples sweat has the right chemistry to rust even a Glock.

[Plink]

You might try using CorrosionX on it from now on. It ended rust problems on my guns and knives and they don't have nearly as corrosion resistant of finish as melonite or tennifer. Even stainless can rust, so it's wise to use rust protection, even on things that are highly rust resistant.

[zahc]

Getting pictures that do the rust justice is proving impossible with my meager equipment and skills. Basically the takedown lever has a nice dust of rust all over it and the front of the slide, kind of right where the muzzle taper ends (where it would get shiny from holster wear if it were old enough) has some dark spotty rust on it.

I'm not really upset. I never put oil on it to try to prevent rust; I hate my guns being oily. I pretty much just grease the slide rails.

[Quiet]

Pics or it didn't happen.

:neener:

[Geno]

I finally had the opportunity to get some pics of my G17 that rusted. I too would like to see pics of that S&W. The salesmen claimed that the S&W pistols are very nearly rust-proof. Anyhow, here is the G17 that rusted. It looks pretty mild now after having been cleaned up. Last year, when it first happened, it was pretty ugly!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/G17Rust.jpg

Doc2005

[possum]

i don't know how you guys do it but my guns have nevr rusted, i don't know it is wierdi guess. like the problem that many compain about with the older model xd's i never had a problem with rust on it or any other gun.

[Arch]

possum, some of us have acid hands ;)

[Geno]

None of my other Glocks are rusted. I suspect that it is just something wrong with this one's finish. :(

[zahc]

new camera technology made possible by my sister.

It's rusting in the slide serrations now. I should have included the 'Stainless Steel' rollmark in one of the photos.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n78/daravon/DSCF1171.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n78/daravon/DSCF1172.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n78/daravon/DSCF1170.jpg

[cbsbyte]

Any gun can rust, they are made out of metal. But this is a little much for a new model with a "tough" finish. It looks like the finish is not properly applied to the metal. Not a good sign. Hopefully it is just one batch and not a serious flaw in the MP line.

[tydephan]

Zahc,

Have you made a call to Smith about it? I'd be curious as to their response.

Thanks for posting the pictures.

[George Hill]

Acid for blood... looks like someone bagged one of Ripley's bad guys.

[deltacharlie]

I'll be interested to see how S&W handles this one.

Acid for blood... looks like someone bagged one of Ripley's bad guys.Hilarious!!!

[texagun]

That rust on the MP is a shame. I think one of the posters hit the nail on the head. It has a lot to do with body chemistry. I knew a guy that could put his hand on a gun and it would rust overnight if not wiped down afterwards. I, luckily, have never had that problem. I would send the pics to S&W and see if you couldn't get them to refinish the gun. Their Lifetime Warranty and Customer Service is great.

[CWL]

Take this up with S&W and let us know how they respond. I have taken a NIB stainless Kahr pistol home to discover rust spots all over the slide.

In the future, covering your pistol with good car wax or Ren wax can help prevent this type of rusting.

[CountGlockula]

Thanks for the photos. Mayber S&W will get the slide replaced.
Melonite® vs. Tennifer, I choose Tennifer.

Doc, I think you just need to wash your hands after supper. :D

[Eyesac]

That sucks... I also know have a friend that can rust anything he touches (I clean after he comes around).

I have stainless pistols that rust for no reason and I have glocks that never rust despite sitting IWB everyday. Who knows what's next!

[Babalouie]

I had my M&P "Stainless" refinished, ie melonite off brushed stainless on. I got it, it looked great, wiped it down and into the safe it went. Six days later when I went to retrieve it for a uspsa shoot it was brown and nasty looking. The stainless they use is very inferior. It now sports a hard chromed finish.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c255/Sven126/MPStippled.jpg

[zahc]

I'm not too keen on sending it away. I need it to carry. The rust is disappointing but doesn't affect the function of the gun, so I think I'm stuck with living with it.

[cyborgzerozeronine]

I'm guessing you are sweating right on the gun. If you have acidic sweat, you will destroy a regularly finished carry gun in a month or two; maybe a bit longer for a Glock and a stainless gun can last six months or so.

There is only one option for people with acidic sweat who want to carry the gun close to their body: refinish the gun in Teflon-based finishes. Gunsmiths like SIG-master TJ will put a black Teflon on your gun. Robar does terrific finishes; I have used their NP3 on my SIG 210 magazines and it is outstandingly tough. Arizona Response Systems also does a teflon based finish; I'm currently waiting on some magazines to evaluate it.

M&P's are crappy pistols anyway; Smith's 3rd gen pistols are decent. Ditch that suckah, get a new pistol, and send it to Robar or someone else doing those finishes.

[tango3065]

Looks like S&W went to bottom of the barrel with their stainless.

[texagun]

Any stainless gun can rust.

[cpirtle]

Just because one stainless will rust easier does not mean it's inferior. Just inferior at rust resistance.

S&W may have chose the steel they're using for other properties, giving up a little rust resistance. That's for them to know us to find out.

Some stainless will rust like crazy until it's heat treated, others cannot be heat treated and could sit in the rain for months and not rust.

Interested in this thread though because I carry an M&Pc often and live in good ole humid Ohio.

[WarMachine]

Looks like S&W went to bottom of the barrel with their stainless.

And you base this on the few M&P's that have rusted out of the thousands currently on the market? Name any gun with a factory finish, and I'd be willing to bet that there are examples that have rusted at some point in time. Stainless steels have corrosion resistant properties; no one claims them to be corrosion proof except those late-night, wonder knife infomercials.

[Shipwreck]

The strongest rust resistant finish is probably NP3 - I am a hard chrome fan because of it being harder to wear hard chrome - but for rust protection, NP3 would be the way to go.

But, now that ya have rust on it - do as everyone else said - call S&W.

Its just gonna get worse.

[Babalouie]

I'm reading these post that seem to defend the M&P "stainless" not being "inferior". I understand the stoutness of the metal is not in question just the "stainless" question. At what point is "Stainless" no longer stainless? I shoot uspsa every week so I use my guns a lot. My Para P16 "stainless" has never ever shown the first sign of rust or discoloration. In fact it was sitting next to the "stainless" M&P as the M&P turned into a brown nasty crappy looking mess. I had the slide refinished because the M&P is advertised as stainless...I don't think my expectation was too high to think that the finish would be like my para. I don't think I was aware there are different levels of "stainless". If that is true I'd be interested in knowing what "level" or grade of stainless S&W decided to use and why. I was disappointed that the M&P rusted but I don't think S&W owes me anything. In fact I'm sure they don't...Heck, I had the factory finish removed thinking the gun would look good without the melonite...which it did for a day! Live and learn.

[tydephan]

Heck, I had the factory finish removed thinking the gun would look good without the melonite...which it did for a day! Live and learn.

Now, I'm going to preface this with a warning that I am no expert, and I could certainly be wrong about this. But with that being said:

I don't think you had the Melonite removed. You had the blued finish removed (seemingly by a bead blast of some sort). The Melonite, as I understand it, is similar to Tennifer in that it is a treated in the metal itself, not the "finish." Thus, by beadblasting your pistol, the only thing that was removed was the coloring. The protective layer of Melonite should still have been intact.

This is what I have read in the past. Maybe some others can either verify this or stone me if I'm incorrect.

Either way, I agree with your initial assertion that the rust that occurred on the OP's pistol should have not happened, regardless. I urge him to contact Smith to notify them of the problem.

I have had no problems with either of my M&Ps, but they haven't drawn daily carry duty yet.

[JLStorm]

This is sad, something is very wrong with this picture. I carry an HK every day in humid high heat which has a similar finish to the Glock's and I would assume to the M&P's as well. I have also carried a Glock 30 in the past for 9 hours a night in a very crowded humid sticky night club where I was sweating constantly and the heat and sweat from 2500 other people created quite a hot sticky environment, and never did I experience any rust. This has to be a QA issue, and no the standard, S&W needs to be notified and you should receive a brand new pistol!

[cpirtle]

"At what point is "Stainless" no longer stainless"

Technically: It takes a minimum of 10.5% Chromium to qualify as stainless.


I am not defending the M&P but metallurgists choose steel based on certain properties. Just like a doctor they have to weigh the pro's and cons on each.

If steel is 10.5% chromium it possibly has a higher tensile strength than a stainless steel with 18 or 20% Chromium. This is one of the reason carbon steel is most often used in high strength applications.

[cpirtle]

I should also add,,, you could possibly have a bad heat treat on your slide which would reduce the stainless capabilities (among other things).

My guess is S&W will realize this and replace the slide.

[stevemis]

Man, that's not cool... but I'm used to it.

I'm the guy who makes everything he touches rust, pit and fall apart. It's hell trying to keep nice firearms. I ruined the finish on a stainless Taurus 65 about 10 years ago.. it's a pitted mess. I've done some damage to stainless 1911's.. so far CZ's polycoat finish is holding up without any issues.

I also go through underwear like crazy because the elastic waistbands lose their elasticity. Apple isn't too happy with me either, and I'm about to bring my Mac in for another case replacement (warranty). I wish they'd offer to send a case out to someone to have it coated with something more durable.

Good luck.. I'm very interested to hear how S&W handles this one.

Steve

[dhoomonyou]

contact S & W 800 331 0852
keep us posted.

[raz-0]

If you have toxic sweat, there isn't much you can do.

Here's the deal with the M&P as explianed to me when I had some pinhead rust spots from a match in the rain (didn't get it as dry as I thought I did after).

The gun is stainless with a melonite finish. There are three types of melonite, Q, QP, and QPQ. QPQ is the only one that enhances corrosion resistance. However according to the guys who do the finish "Enhanced Corrosion Resistance (Not suitable for stainless)." Which means that is not what is on the gun.

THe corrosion resistance of the M&P comes from whatever the black finish is and the stainless properties of the stainless steel. You will notice the two prime examples here are whree there is holsters wear, and where someone stripped off the black coating. My pinhead rust was likely due to dust on the gun when the black finish was applied.

And YES, there are a whole LOT of varieties of stainless steel. The only ones that might stand up to killer sweat have a LOT of chromium in them, and are too brittle for something you might want to contain the results of a double charged round. Steel alloys are a compromise amongst a set of desirable features, and NONE are rust proof.

If you REALLY want a coating that looks nice, stands up to holster wear, and inhibits corrosion, I suggest checking out the new spiffy diamond like coatings, or get a good hard chrome done on your gun.

[ChrisMG]

A diet change might be in order to counter the effects of the acid touch. Drinking more water (read: gallon a day) and trying to balance out the body's pH levels would surely help.

My hands sweat a lot but I don't rust everything I touch, but to be safe I wipe down the slide after every use with some type of oil.

[cvb]

otherwise Im tired of seeing firearms pristine, NIB etc.
Rust is good. clean it up with 0000 grit, you used it didnt
you? :banghead:

[Spiff_P239]

That's a shame about your pistol. I wouldn't hesitate to call Smith & Wesson. Most people say they have their guns back in about a week's time if they do go back for warranty work.

[MadMercS55]

I've been carrying my new M&P .45 for the last couple days. I was outside alot in the warm weather and did sweat directly on the weapon. It developed some minor rust spots in the rear slide serrations that were in direct contact with my skin. It was very minor and wiped off with WD-40. In comparison I often carry my Sig P220 in the same manner and it usually rusted much worse, so no complaints yet.

[zahc]

The acidic sweat comments really don't hold up. I've never rusted anything else, including my XD or my 1911A1.

I'm guessing you are sweating right on the gun.

I carry it in a leather holster with an undershirt between. I don't see how I ever got sweat on the front of the slide.

A diet change might be in order to counter the effects of the acid touch. Drinking more water (read: gallon a day) and trying to balance out the body's pH levels would surely help.

I drink at least a gallon of water a day, sometimes a gallon a shift. I eat well. I'm practically a health nut.

[zahc]

Watch it grow! It's better than sea monkeys. Except, you know, $500.

Keep in mind that this gun has been completely dry, it's not even very humid here, and it never actually gets sweat on the slide. I was wearing my 1911 when I got completely dunked under water a week or two ago, and I just shook it off and cleaned it about 8 hours later, no rust. This is really amazing. I haven't really done anything to 'deserve' this rust. Except carry it. Really, I've never had a gun just rust, and keep rusting, without there being some cause like hunting in the rain and not cleaning it or something. Now it's getting to the point where S&W might hear a word or two from me, plus the fact that I won't need it as much soon.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n78/daravon/DSCF1182.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n78/daravon/DSCF1179.jpg

[dralarms]

I'd be talking to S&W about that. I sweat HARD and mine doesn't show anything like that.

One question though, Do you clean the firearm regularly? I mena even if you don't shoot it, if you are carrying it it must be cleaned, I do mine once a week.

The only reason I ask is that's some pretty heavy rust showing up there.

Also is it on both sides or just 1?

[stolivar]

It helps keep the gun sealed from sweat.....



steve

[W.E.G.]

Leather holster eh?

Salts and acid are frequently used in tanning leather.
"..Pickling may also be performed by treating the hide with a brine
solution and sulfuric acid to adjust the acidity for preservation or tanning."
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/ap42/ch09/final/c9s15.pdf

I wonder what would have happened if you had carried it in a Kydex holster?

[zahc]

I carry my blued 1911 in the same model holster from the same manufacturer.

[dhoomonyou]

THAT should not be happening.

call S&W 800 331 0852

keep us posted.

[W.E.G.]

I carry my blued 1911 in the same model holster from the same manufacturer.

Yeah, but there's no telling where the leather came from for two different holsters. I rather doubt that the guys who sell leather are to be trusted 100% in their consistency of tanning methods.

[CZF]

Anyone with a CZ in polycoat have the same problems?

[another okie]

Is it acid or salt? In my limited experience, people who eat a lot of salt tend to make firearms and everything else metal rust.

[DBR]

Try: http://www.eezox.com/ it really works. I have been using it since 1993. Just follow the instructions.

[Kurt_D]

Question here:

The slide is stainless, which can very well rust depending on type. You can't park or blue stainless because, well, they're basically types of controled corrosion.

Actual Question: Is the slide actually Melonite treated or just blackened stainless? Can you even treat stainless with Melonite or Tennifer (they're the same thing)?

All other pistols (Glock, Walter, XD) with this type of finish or NOT stainless steel. Matter of fact, XD and Walter actually have a stainless model and a carbon nitrated(sp?) model.

[MontanaBighorn]

MY M&P .40 (http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=493) has been flawless in fit, finish and function. i look forward to an update from you. out of curiosity, what is the third digit of your serial number?

[the naked prophet]

I know people have totally different body chemistries. I can't get anything to rust, seriously. I've sweated all over a couple of Kel-Tecs (my first carry gun was a now-sold P11, and I have a P3AT for a BUG now) with their thin bluing, and nary a spot of rust. My P3AT sat in my sweaty pocket, and every time I'd put my hands in my pocket, I'd rub the back of the blued slide - nary a spot of rust, but boy is it polished shiny. I'd not oil it for a month, and it won't rust. I think I must sweat Hoppes or something.

Good luck with your M&P rust problem. I'm willing to bet that S&W will fix it. If it rusts after they replace or refinish the slide, I'd try parkerizing. Parkerizing is a better protectant finish, if you know how to use it (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/02/parkerizing-truth-vs-tales.html).

[Cloudpeak]

There is quite a discussion about rust on the XD forum. Maybe there is something in here that might be helpful for those of you M&P owners with rust.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

I have one of the older XD40SCs before they went to a new, better finish and have several thousand rounds through it and never had a problem with rust. But, I do live in a dry climate.

Cloudpeak

[Danus ex]

This is pure speculation with no scientific backing on my part, but I wonder if you're handling or eating a lot of tomato products--you mentioned pizza dough earlier so I would assume so. Tomatos are obviously chock-full of acids. Enough to beat through the finish on your S&W, though? Probably not without prolonged exposure.

You should use your warranty. We've all seen working firearms over a hundred years old without rust problems like that.

[Anna's Dad]

My M&P fell into a river and sat there for over an hour. It then sat soaked in a plastic container for about 2 hours. It looked like a small rust spot in the barrel but it wiped right off. No other rust at all.

I did drench it with Breakfree when I was able to take it apart again.

Just looked at it today and it still looks as good as new!

[Golddog]

I've got CZ's in Nickel, Polycoat (three guns), and two types of stainless (matte and polished). None has shown any signs of rust or holster wear, and most were bought used. I carry 'em and shoot 'em a bunch, but I also clean them after every range session and wipe them down with CorrosionX.

[choochboost]

Question here:

The slide is stainless, which can very well rust depending on type. You can't park or blue stainless because, well, they're basically types of controled corrosion.

Actual Question: Is the slide actually Melonite treated or just blackened stainless? Can you even treat stainless with Melonite or Tennifer (they're the same thing)?

All other pistols (Glock, Walter, XD) with this type of finish or NOT stainless steel. Matter of fact, XD and Walter actually have a stainless model and a carbon nitrated(sp?) model.
The M&P slide is Melonite treated, but there are different types of Melonite treatment. The Melonite treatment with "enhanced corrosion resistance" is not suitable for the stainless slide of the M&P. Check this out: http://www.burlingtoneng.com/melonite.html

[Geno]

Wow! And that is darkened finish on top of stainless steel?!

[JohnN]

I'm not too keen on sending it away. I need it to carry. The rust is disappointing but doesn't affect the function of the gun, so I think I'm stuck with living with it.


If you refuse to send it away for S&W to repair why are you still complaining about it?? You obviously have other guns you can use so why don't you try Smith's warranty so you will have something else to cry about.

[Kurt_D]

The M&P slide is Melonite treated, but there are different types of Melonite treatment. The Melonite treatment with "enhanced corrosion resistance" is not suitable for the stainless slide of the M&P. Check this out: http://www.burlingtoneng.com/melonite.html

Thanks, I was curious how that worked.

[HM2PAC]

"The slide is stainless, which can very well rust depending on type. You can't park or blue stainless because, well, they're basically types of controled corrosion."

Not to stir up hate and discontent, but stainless is able to take a blueing. It just requires a different type of corrosion.

The only reason I know this is the Garand I have has a gas cylinder that is stainless and the gunsmith had to blue it.

As far as the M&P goes, I'd be on the horn to S&W real quick.