[2dogs]

A cocker spaniel for cripes sake! What the hell is wrong with these guys?



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33194

Police officer probed
for killing dog
Owner calls for criminal investigation of front-yard shooting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: June 21, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A dog owner is calling for a criminal investigation into the lethal shooting of her 6-year-old cocker spaniel by a police officer.

Valerie Mueller was in her backyard with her dog Sprite in the early morning hours last Saturday trying to talk a friend out of suicide when police arrived, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported.



The 38-pound dog bounded into the front yard toward the officers as they got out of their squad cars and just seconds later was struck by a bullet and killed.

"He fell over and flinched," Mueller, 33, told the Milwaukee paper. "To see him fall over flinching and die right there, it's just hard to explain."

On top of her loss, police issued Mueller a $120 citation for allowing Sprite to be outside without a leash.

The Milwaukee Police Department is now investigating whether lethal force was necessary to subdue the dog, the Journal Sentinel said.

Mueller's attorney Alan Eisenberg called the shooting "reckless" and filed a complaint Wednesday with the city's Fire and Police Commission. He also is asking the Milwaukee County district attorney to conduct a criminal investigation.

The Milwaukee daily said Mueller's dog-shooting complaint is the first the commission has received this year. Last year, the commission probed three shootings of dogs by police officers.

Another friend of Mueller's, David Williams, witnessed the shooting.

"I told [police], 'The dog is harmless, don't hurt the dog,'" Williams said. "Three seconds later, they shot the dog."

The Journal Sentinel said Sprite was so much a part of Mueller's life that she had his paw prints tattooed onto her right foot.

"He was my best friend," she told the paper. "I did everything with him."

The female officer who shot the dog, Chaquila C. Peavy, 28, has been on the force since November 2001. Police Chief Arthur Jones said shooting a dog is justified if the officer "reasonably feels that they're in danger."

Jill De Grave, education director for the Wisconsin Humane Society, told the Journal Sentinel police officers should have to prove pet killings are justified, the same as if a person were shot.

"Everybody has to be accountable for their actions, especially when something dies as a result," De Grave said. "The officer must have felt very, very threatened to pull the trigger."

De Grave said police officers could benefit from training on handling dogs and reading behavior.

[444]

The police respond to a call of someone who is suicidal. They shoot a dog in the front yard. Talk about losing sight of your goals. I bet the shooting did wonders for the person who was suicial.
As a paramedic, I have responded on thousands of calls just like this one. Never once have I felt threatened by a dog.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[hammer4nc]

Here is the dog:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jun03/spritea071903.jpg
Unlike the smoak/dog shooting, no video of this one...yet judging from the picture, would be hard to envision a reasonable person being fearful enough to warrant use of deadly force. The threshhold has now been lowered.

We've been conditioned to lea's "circling the wagons" to protect their own in cases like this. What makes it worse, the pd felt it necessary to write a citation to the owner! For callousness alone, I hope they get taken to the proverbial cleaners on this one.

[TheeBadOne]

When there is a dead dog the Police will be blamed no matter what.

[hammer4nc]

Police will be blamed no matter what.

Part of "circling the wagons" is being completely dismissive of the facts related to the incident...no matter what.

[El Tejon]

Well, looks like another seminar for the National Conference of City Attorneys, "Defending the Dog Shoot--tips from the trenches in WI & TN".

Wait and see. With any other case, it depends.:)

[riverdog]

After going off on GlockTalk's "Stickman" for circling the wagons on a dog shooting, I no longer comment on dog shootings.

[444]

*

[TheeBadOne]

All I was stating is that when it comes to animals people get very emotional. Here's a link proving just that. Remember "Leo"? The little dog that was thrown into traffic on a road rage incident?
It raised more private money and effort than any missing child in CA......ever.

http://www.fox.com/mdmystery/102/rage.htm

[12-34hom]

While at work last week, myself and the guy i work with were in a park. A van pulls up and out steps a gent with two pit bulls.

We were about 20 to 30 feet from this guy when the larger of the two dogs, [the male] takes out after us. the force of this animal coming to the end of the chain he was teathered to literally knocked the owner off his feet and to the ground.

I can't carry legally on this particular job [ city policy].

But, if i had been i would have drawn down on this animal.

Some people are afraid of any type of dog, just like snakes, spiders, etc...

While living in the southern portion of this state, there was a big problem with packs of dogs roaming about in rural areas and harrassing & killing livestock.

Iowa code states ANY dog off a leash with no collar & tags can be shot legally.

I understand the attachment and bond people form with thier pets. But they must take responsibility for said animal and abide by the codes set forth for thier tratment and care in the state they live in.

12-34hom.

[444]

All true, but how does this relate to a cocker spaniel ?

[riverdog]

444,
I edited to remove the comments I don't make any longer :) What's the point. Cops will shoot dogs that may pose a threat -- fact. I've given up trying to reason with LEOs on the board regarding dogs getting shot in their own yards for doing what dogs do.

Thee,
Leo the bishon frise wasn't shot by a cop in line of duty so it probably is not a good comparison. However, considering the emotions people attach to dogs, one wonders why LE is surprised when people are outraged by incidents such as this latest pet dog shooting -- and then they cited the owner :rolleyes:

[2dogs]

Some people are afraid of any type of dog, just like snakes, spiders, etc...

Well, when a LEO comes out to my house on a 911 call, I hope they don't send one who is afraid of my cat.:rolleyes:

[TheeBadOne]

Thee,
Leo the bishon frise wasn't shot by a cop in line of duty so it probably is not a good comparison. However, considering the emotions people attach to dogs, one wonders why LE is surprised when people are outraged by incidents such as this latest pet dog shooting -- and then they cited the owner
It is a perfect example of the emotions attached to animals, regardless of who.
I love my dog, and protect it by making sure it's on the leash, or yard chain, or inside the dog fence. I still remember one time I was "lazy" and didn't click on the leash on my shep. My shep has always been very mild mannered. I was exiting the parents house after a visit and headed for the car 15 ft away. Someone was walking their dog on the other side of the street and my shep ran over aggresively at the other dog. I ran over and got control of my dog, but was chewed out by the guy (very rightfully so). The lesson? Even the most people friendly dog (mine) is still just a dog, and such can be unpredictable. If I had been the gun walking the dog I'd have been frightened of my shep who ran over all teeth/bark/fur and business. My shep has never displayed this behavior again, & I've never allowed a chance for it to ever run if it did. Dogs have to be protected from themselves. My neighbor is pissed to no end about a truck that hit and killed their dog on the road. The neighbors thought is this, "I don't think they tried hard enough to avoid the dog". There is no way they will ever accept the fact that having let their dog roam their yard (and sometime the entire neighborhoods) lead to this. The hubby still would like to 'meet the driver in some dark alley'. Some people just won't take the answer. I know I'd be more than upset if my dog was hit and killed, and I suspect outrage would be the 1st emotion I'd feel, but reason and logic would point out the real problem......me, letting the dog roam loose.

[2dogs]

When there is a dead dog the Police will be blamed no matter what.

Wait, maybe we should blame the gun manufacturer.:rolleyes:

[riverdog]

Thee,
Emotions attached to pets are pretty normal. Unfortunately, it's becoming fairly commonplace to hear about dogs being shot by police for "acting aggressively". In this latest case I suspect the LEO was acting emotionally.

A good dog will almost always check out (sniff sniff) anybody that enters their territory, it's natural. Some police apparently see this behavior as an aggressive potential threat and shoot the animal to remove the threat. No big, it's just property.

Done. I've already said too much.

[444]

Something that is interesting about this is that usually there is a level of force that is upgraded as the situation merits (I didn't put that very well). If attacked by a human who was unarmed, most places would consider it appropriate to use a baton, or possibly pepper spray to subdue the attacker. For some reason with dogs, no matter their size, the inital step taken is lethal force.

[TheeBadOne]

If attacked by a human who was unarmed, most places would consider it appropriate to use a baton, or possibly pepper spray to subdue the attacker
True, the key word is "human". Batons are not appropriate on animals, nor are "wrist locks" or other type of unarmed defensive tactics. Sprays may be an option depending on many things including but not limited to:

1) availability
2) wind
3) proximity
4) rate of advance
5) terrain

[444]

"Batons are not appropriate on animals"
Really, that is news to me.

So back to the point, you are saying that lethal force is appropriate ? On a cocker spaniel ? In a neighborhood ? As an inital reaction ? Right ouside the door of someone that is suicidal ?
We all know the real answer to this question, some will argue for the sake of argument.

[Jim March]

A cocker spaniel.

OK. Ya. Right.

Call me skeptical :scrutiny:.

That said, you do sometimes see otherwise "known harmless" breeds attack.

Kevin McClung (of MD knives fame) once told a story from his vet tech days, of a dog that latched onto his leg and wouldn't let go :eek:. He got mad, punched the dang thing right on the top of the head, and purely by accident killed it deader'n'Elvis. One knuckle cracked through one of the thin bone areas at the top of the skull to either side of the central ridge.

It was a friggin' BEAGLE!

:banghead:

[444]

Lets say this was the most aggressive, vicious 38 pound cocker spaniel ever whelped. What can it do to you ? Bite you ? "latch onto your leg and not let go" ? And this justifies the use of deadly force ? In a neighborhood ? .................................................

Jim, just out of curiosity, what was the final settlement for the lawsuit on that guy that killed the dog at the vets office ? Talk about a slam dunk lawsuit; you take your dog in for medical care and they cave it's head in. Kinda hard to explain.

Jim, you can be skeptical, but we had an incident here locally where an off duty cop shot his next door neighbors dog because it came into his yard. The dog weighed about 10 pounds and belonged to an elderly woman. He is now a former cop. A very much unemployed, trigger happy, irresponsible nazi.
This isn't speculation, there was a whole lot of local media coverage about it. Many witnesses.

[spartacus2002]

If I'm trying to talk someone out of a suicide, leashing my dog is last on my to-do list.

[jsalcedo]

I saw a video of a San Antonio Police officer beat a tied up cockerspaniel repeatedly with a shovel (two hand overhead grip)
while responding to a domestic call.

The small dog was secured to a tree and barking at the cop.

The other cops were ignoring the dog and taking care of the call when one cops suddenly picked up a shovel leaning against the house and proceded to beat the dog to death.

He was put on administrative duty for a day and wasn't prosecuted because the dept offered to buy the family a new dog.

I was fortunate enough to see this on the 6 o'clock news.....

[Solinvictus70]

This idiot LE was obviously not clued as to what a legitimate threat is. Geez, a cocker spaniel, now THERE'S a breed known for its vicious behavior. :rolleyes:

[TheeBadOne]

444
"Batons are not appropriate on animals"
Can you tell me where the appropriate striking zones are on a dog charging you? Where are the nerve plexis zones? On a human you can go for the several areas that house nerves inside muscle mass, thus giving a target that not only can disable the person, but leave no lasting injury such as a broken bone, nerve damage, or a crippled joint/member. Where are these zones on a dog? Perhaps you’d like to contact ASP or PPCT and ask for their Expert advice?

[jdmac45]

LMAO - no kidding, I can hear it now..."*BLAM* never fear, we're here to help!" I think the walled off police culture of *us and them* mentality is reaching it's limits :p

"The police respond to a call of someone who is suicidal. They shoot a dog in the front yard. Talk about losing sight of your goals. I bet the shooting did wonders for the person who was suicial."

[Dash Riprock]

The important thing to remember is that the officer made it home safely that night, and one more assault spaniel was taken off the street.

[only1asterisk]

Lets say this was the most aggressive, vicious 38 pound cocker spaniel ever whelped.

It couldn't be, as this dog beloned to an aunt of mine, she is long dead (the dog, not the aunt). My aunt "certified" the little bitch as harmless, but it bit every man that every walked it to the house, and more than a few children. It was a savage little beast, despite the fact that it had never been mistreated (that is until I started kicking it every time it bit me). Apparently, cocker spaniels have a reputation for such behavior.

The officer in question could have pulled the trigger as his last consious act after having his throat ripped out, it wouldn't have mattered. As long as little snukums looks cute in her PR photo, her family could sue the cop's estate and win. Under the circumstances, shooting it probably wasn't the best thing to do. That probably would have been to let it bite one boot and crush it with the other one. I think the cop will get in less trouble by shooting the little $#!+.

Don't get me wrong, I love dogs. I have rescued them, put them down after being hit hy trucks, pulled my parents Sheltie from the mouth of a big boxer (wearing a gun at the time). I've seen stoic pit bulls put up with 2 year-old poking him in the eye and messing with his tail. I've also seen ankle biters rush from hiding and bite passing pedestrians, leaving scars, and I've shot dogs harrasing cattle. I love dogs, but I have a rule. Humans first, even if it means trading a good dog for a bad person. I know that this isn't going to be popular, but it's been a long time since I cared about that.


Dave

[2dogs]

SHOOT DA'T DAWG
INADEQUACY BEHIND THE BADGE

By: Paul Vincent Zecchino

Valerie Mueller stands crying in the front yard of her home located in the Peoples' Democratic Republic of Milwaukee. The photo depicting this sad scene appears in various internet news services and will surely never be so rudely posted by the spray lacquered mannequins of the mainscream media. Valerie's tears are a result of having experienced a dose of what Alex Jones, one of the 'Voices of Hate on Shortwave' would term the New Freedom, the New Love.

Mueller it seems was trying to help a neighbor through a desperate time, some reports describing this as a suicide attempt, with Ms. Mueller acting as an individual for the good of her fellow man. Shame on her, doesn't comraderix Mueller understand that initiative belongs only to that brand of steroidal Gollem which increasingly wreaks havoc on peoples' lives, after which they quickly retreat behind the safety of the badge?

Someone called the police, an increasingly risky business these days at least for the law abiding. Ms. Mueller was ouside her home in a fenced in yard along with her hulking, doubtless very intimidating, utterly terrifying Cocker Spaniel. Valerie's called her late best friend Sprite, whose weight of thirty-eight pounds must have proven incontovertibly threatening to all who beheld his ravening countenance.




Officer Chaquila Peavey arrived on scene, wasting no time in doubtless saving the life of Mueller's suicidal neighbor by killing Sprite. Right, shooting the dog as it no doubt in violent, horrific strides as only cocker spaniels can do ran about the yard. This is the level to which modern police 'services' , as they are stupidly called by the inane, have devolved.

Milwaukee's police chief, whose demonstrated mendacity mandates his remaining nameless for purposes of this column, of course 'stood by his man' and backed up this Chaquila Peavy with the tiresome, predictable, tedious rhetoric typically endemic to third world tin-potteries.

A friend of Mueller's, David Williams, witnessed the shooting which was preceeded by Valerie's telling officer steroid that the dog was harmless, hard to believe about Cocker Spaniels, given their fearsome reputation. Undaunted, and as the feckless police-chief/plutocrat explained, in fear of her life, Centuria Chaquila blasted the dog with her gun. Mmmm good, that must have ameliorated a month's worth of frustration for this valiant armed servant of the people, so who cares about anything else?

By mentioning Mr. Williams name at least he is ensured of remaining free of police harassment resulting from his testifying for Ms. Mueller. Alan Eisenberg is Valerie's lawyer, he can hopefully count on Mr. Williams corroborative testimony in what otherwise would have been a police shoot-down of Ms. Mueller's claim, followed by the mandatory concatenation of gratuitous vindictive traffic stops, zoning citations, and other creative forms of state retribution as taken against citizens wronged by the system whose ingratitude for such bounty compels them to cry out for justice.

Think this writer is being paranoid? Think this writer is cynical, a favorite word well used by psycho-commies to nullify the credibility of their enemies, at least with the stupid? Think this ideation sounds 'unbalanced', as some fancy-boy poofter lawyers for the other side would dismissively term such? Don't think again, just read further. According to reports, Ms. Mueller received a one-hundred twenty-dollar citation for allowing an unleashed dog outside. That's right, outside, in her own fenced yard. That's a good reason to shoot a defenseless small gentle animal, isn't it? I mean, according to the police chief's unimaginative rhetoric no doubt lifted from some petty-tyrant's cookbook, 'the officer must have been really frightened.' Thus of course, the dog needed killing.

This is rampant psychopathy on display in this little sad story, and a library of human pathology wouldn't be able to contain its written ramifications. The police chief-politician demonstrates in addition to backing his stooges for all the wrong reasons, a chilling dismissiveness towards those he is sworn to, what was that long gone slogan, "Serve and protect?" This was after all, a suicide call, not a cocker spaniel terrorist call. The chief expresses no thoughts, no sentiments as regards the tortured soul in the throes of a suicide attempt. And of course, it just won't do to offer any sentiment, no matter how cobbled together, for Valerie Mueller, whose grief at losing her best buddy, in her words, must be just unendurable.

What's a callous, intellectually stunted, emotionally vapid servant of the people to do? Why of course, give them a citation for unleashed dog roaming. In the fenced backyard. This is good for a trip to the court, you know, those great fun theme gulags showcased every day on the devil's eyeball. Judge Judy, judge angry black man, judge glib black man, judge wise-cracking white guy, hideous forums designed to condition to unfortunate masses to accept the inevitable day in court for all manking. Perhaps a nice judge can term Ms. Mueller a terrorist for posessing a Cocker Spaniel without a leash and give her some 'jail time', another term slung about like greaszy hash in some slimy blackened Upstate Bulgarian diner.

After all, this callous dismissiveness on part of Miz Chaquila and her chief didn't come about overnight. Why in the past year alone the Milwaukee police have investigated three dog killings by their finest. And why not? The officer was 'concerned for their personal safety'. This is boilerplate excuse making heard with alarming frequency. A few months ago the family dog of a vacationing North Carolina family was shotgunned to death by one of Tennessee's finest when the officer 'became concerned for their personal safety.' This is the language of the psychopath, not the hero - reader take note, as you will hear more of this with no let up. It has been standard procedure for police officers to kill domestic animals out of 'concern for their personal safety'. A prominent and early example was the valiant, death defyingly heroic butchering of a caged mother Husky and her puppies by the ATF servants at Waco. This was not an out of the ordinary event, this is standard procedure. If you own pets, be warned. ATF agents no doubt 'concerned for their personal safety' stomped to death the pet cat of an elderly couple wrongly accused of firearms violations. Clearly, the cat must have been terrifying to these stalwart enforcers of the law.

There is nothing one can do about this vile bullying evil, save to acknowledge its existence and take precautions. Calling the police for anything today is risky business. About thirty years ago the egghead hackademic crowd colluded with the insurance thugs in hope of solving the problem of cops retiring on stress disability. This was understandable. Judges would nullify years of truly brave police work by letting to worst criminals go free. We have fixed this today by sentencing the likes of Ms. Mueller to five years at hard labor whilst letting the worst criminals go free.

The solution for cops on stress retirement was more taxing and required the full force of hackademia for its brilliant solution. These pineapple-headed beard strokers concluded that cops were posessed of too much intellect and heart, bad qualities too costly in combination. The solution? Psychological testing for would be cops. Weed out those with excessive IQ - above one hundred, eliminate those who reflect on their conduct, who care too much about the job, their fellow man, the aftereffects of their decisions. In other words, cull all but psycho-dullards, a perfect formula for disaster.

Now, this is not to impugn fine men and women on the job everywhere.

Somehow, they either were spared or just beat the testing. Unfortunately, there are too many cruel dimwits who get the badge and who despite their obvious limitations are sufficiently clever to hold their superiors in some strain of apologist bondage. Nothing happened to the slob who killed the Carolinians' family dog, despite his lengthy record of killing animals and humans. Nothing happened to the two greaseballs who killed three dogs in Allentown, Pennsylvania recently while bravely serving a warrant for an, yipes, unpaid parking ticket. One of the dogs was killed as it jumped for its life from a second story window demonstrating clearly that no threat to society is beyond the reach of the Law. And nothing will happen to Officer Chaquila for that matter. Ms. Mueller

will probably pay the fine or be handed an indeterminate sentence in a maximum security work camp, or perhaps both. At least by publicly metioning the name of her corroborative witness, Mr. Williams, his continued existence is assured and perhaps as result of his testimony justce for this fat slob of a wannabe-cop gansta might just be served.

Why is Mr. William's better off publicly mentioned? For the same reason that one Gennifer Flowers is to be found among the prosperous living. Tyrants, bullies, gutless trigger-happy psychos everywhere fear exposure. They can always arrange a premature ending for an anonymous witness. From those who dare to stand up and speak out against tyrannical punkism they invariably flee like scabies from peroxide.

In the meantime, rejoice that in the ranks of the Milwaukee Constabulary there lurks a worthy recipient of the Michael Gartner "Only the Police and Military" Should Have Guns award. Quite and worthily so, after all, it is time we as a family human converge and face head on that blood curdling chimera known as the Cocker Spaniel Peril.

As officer steroid gloats over its "Metal Mike Award" the rest of us might do well to be concerned for our personal safety and that of our loved ones be they adorned with epidermis or fur. The exiled hero put ignored his safety out of concern for those he truly swore to serve and protect. The apparatchik psycho-hero is ever concerned for their safety, their pension, their own skin. Blessed as they are with the ability to play the victim fiddle as accompaniment to their blame shifting of their own guilt to the innocent we the law abiding would do well to consider the threat posed by such conduct to our own personal safety. Act accordingly, clever as the serpent innocent like the dove, that we and our loved ones both those clad with epidermis and fur alike may survive.

http://www.etherzone.com/2003/zecc062303.shtml

[Matt1911]

Wait a minute,this dog was in it's own fenced yard?If that is true,how can they claim any fear at all?

[hammer4nc]

Batons are not appropriate on animals, nor are "wrist locks" or other type of unarmed defensive tactics. Sprays may be an option depending on many things including but not limited to:

1) availability
2) wind
3) proximity
4) rate of advance
5) terrain

Can you tell me where the appropriate striking zones are on a dog charging you? Where are the nerve plexis zones?

Chapter two from "circling the wagons" manual: Obfuscate the issue with any manner of official sounding technical jargon from the police academy, that has nothing to do with the case at hand.

Hey, I'll save some time, we can skip ahead: "The dog ignored repeated commands to "get down on the ground", and made furtive motions while advancing on the officer. It also displayed what the officer thought was a weapon, which later turned out to be a plastic chew-toy. "... "The officer followed departmental procedures." What other hackneyed phrases have I forgotten?

[TarpleyG]

TheeBadOne,

I was taught that police work was a community "service." More and more, LEOs are commanding respect instead of earning it. This is especially true when you are dealing with folks that have no crminal intent. Seems as though most LEOs go into a situation these days with the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. This goes way beyond a few LEOs killing a couple of dogs in the past year.

Before you start flaming me...my best friend is a police officer and I have several other friends that are also. I even toyed with the notion as well but my career field pays me twice what I would make as a cop. None of my friends behave in this manner, EVER! Young cops go in all Gung Ho and this is where it leads them.

Probably 99% of all dogs are not aggressive enough to warrant being shot. We only hear about it because of the same media that only reports murders and rapes that occur but never say anything about the ones that were prevented because someone fought back. I am sure thousands and thousands of LEOs approach dogs daily without the need to shoot them. All my male dog wants to do is sniff your crotch. Is this to be taken as an agressive posture and does he need to be shot and killed with as much regard as someone stepping on a spider or cockroach? Shoot my dog on my property while responding to a call and I will be willing to go to jail for kicking your a$$.

Back to my original reason for posting...Community Policing. Police need to befriend the folks in thier area, not make them the enemy. I have no idea what type of neighborhood this occured in but I imagine it is a lot like where I live now. Not much crime at all. In fact, where I live, the cops are so bored, it takes the whole damned force showing up to do a felony traffic stop. I live on a fairly busy intersection and have see it several times. 4, 5, or 6 squad cars come racing in, tire screeching to a halt, just to pull some poor schmuck (by himself, I might add) over for speeding in his Corvette or Mustang on a Staurday night. It's rediculous but, hey, I don't make the policy. I just have to hope and pray I never get pulled over by the mighty Sunrise Police Department or need them to come over and shoot my dogs.

GT

[TheeBadOne]

hammer4nc

As you will note I replied to 444 asking for clarification. No flame from me, no defending of any action taken, just trying to help others see some of the complexity of the issue. Your JBT bashing has added nothing to this thread that was not already there. What's really funny (I wish it truly were funny) is that you accuse me of writing things that "Have nothing to do with the case". Look at your entire thread, what does any of it have to do with the case? Hey, I'll save some time, we can skip ahead: "The dog ignored repeated commands to "get down on the ground", and made furtive motions while advancing on the officer. It also displayed what the officer thought was a weapon, which later turned out to be a plastic chew-toy. "... "The officer followed departmental procedures." What other hackneyed phrases have I forgotten?
TarpleyG

I was taught that police work was a community "service." More and more, LEOs are commanding respect instead of earning it. This is especially true when you are dealing with folks that have no crminal intent. Seems as though most LEOs go into a situation these days with the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. This goes way beyond a few LEOs killing a couple of dogs in the past year.
No flame here. Just pointing out that perhaps you are more biased than you realize.
Probably 99% of all dogs are not aggressive enough to warrant being shot. We only hear about it because of the same media that only reports murders and rapes that occur but never say anything about the ones that were prevented because someone fought back. I am sure thousands and thousands of LEOs approach dogs daily without the need to shoot them.
Very true
All my male dog wants to do is sniff your crotch. Is this to be taken as an agressive posture and does he need to be shot and
No
Police need to befriend the folks in thier area
Agreed, but is seems the reverse is not true, at least not on here :rolleyes:
In fact, where I live, the cops are so bored, it takes the whole damned force showing up to do a felony traffic stop. I live on a fairly busy intersection and have see it several times. 4, 5, or 6 squad cars come racing in, tire screeching to a halt, just to pull some poor schmuck (by himself, I might add) over for speeding in his Corvette or Mustang on a Staurday night. It's rediculous but, hey, I don't make the policy. I just have to hope and pray I never get pulled over by the mighty Sunrise Police Department or need them to come over and shoot my dogs.
Ask your buddy why it takes more than 1 car to do a felony stop. Also, thanks to modern tech you no longer have to wonder about your crime rate. What city/state do you live in? The FBI Uniform Crime rate can be looked up. You can find out each year how many burglaries, thefts, rapes, assaults, DWI's, etc, have occured or been reported in your jurisdicition. If you'd like some help looking it up PM me. If you just want to generalize they have nothing to do go ahead. Either way......

All the best

[TarpleyG]

Let me clarify, my friends work in Dallas as that is where I am transplanted from. I don't know any of them here in FL. I just keep an observant eye on them now because of thier SWAT style tactics that I have seen.

As for UCR, we are a suburb of Ft. Lauderdale and here are the stats compared with Dallas. A little lower comparitively but my area is a lot better.

http://fortlauderdale.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm
http://sunrise.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm
http://dallas.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

GT

[Ebbtide]

If you are a cop and are afraid of a 38 lb family dog you became a cop for the wrong reasons (must be trying to make up for being a puss your whole life). I think there is too much administrative wiggle room for a cop to "feel a threat" and there actually being one.

Some people make bad cops, too bad there seem to be a lot of them these days (present company excluded). I don't really care for "the job is hard", the pay is crap, and you have to work late nights excuses I hear all too often. Cops can always get another job and chances are they will be better for it. The fact remains it is civil servant job with a decent (for some) pension that requires little training, education, and intelligence for most posts. And until that changes, we will see our fair share of violated rights, abuses of power, dog shootings and police cover-ups.

Please Note: There are plenty of smart, compassionate, well educated cops out there too...they make the good ones. You "good ones" know whom my post is about, so no flames please)

ehenz

[TheeBadOne]

TarpleyG
Ok. Still willing to help you get that info if you'd like.

Also, since your friend is so far away I'll tell you one thing I can see (even though I have no idea what it looks like where you live).
In fact, where I live, the cops are so bored, it takes the whole damned force showing up to do a felony traffic stop. I live on a fairly busy intersection and have see it several times. 4, 5, or 6 squad cars come racing in, tire screeching to a halt, just to pull some poor schmuck (by himself, I might add) over

If I was going to do a felony stop in an busy traffic area (especially an interesection) I'd want enough squads to have at least 2 do nothing but traffic control. If you're taking someone out at gun point you don't want to let Joe Citizen drive past you. If the suspect starts shooting you can't shoot back if Joe is driving by him. Also, the suspect may decide to use Joe (hostage/sheild/vent his rage).
There needs to be enough cover officers so that the traffic control officers don't have to pay attention to what's going on up front. Also, they need enough protection up front so they can do their job in the back. Depending on the area you described 4-5 squads sounds like it's not unreasonable.
How do you know there is only 1 person in the car? Simple, you don't until you completed the stop. 1 bad guy in a car is bad enough because he always gets the 1st move. Some bad guys are pretty slick and their buddies even slicker. That's why they have pals who ride "shotgun" with them, out of sight. The back seat of a car is a very dangerous area to clear. Remember playing with a Jack-in-the-box? Now add a shotgun/rifle/handgun to it.

How long have you been away from the big D, and how long have you been in FL. What comparisons have you made to State government, and citizens in general?

All the best

[TarpleyG]

Look at my edited post above. i put the stats there.

How do you know there is only 1 person in the car?
I watched the first one from start to finish from my backyard. I was 15 ft away. The driver was in a convertible Corvette with the top down on the side street next to my house. There is not much traffic there and he was alone unless someone was hunched down in the passenger seat, which is always a possibility. In thier defense, I have no idea why they stopped the guy. He could've had an outstanding warrant for a violent felony for all I know. The second one was a similar scenario but I got in on it a little later.

It's just that I've seen this same Gestapo type stop twice in two years and given the relative lack of crime in our area I think it was unwarranted is all. I mean, what are the chances that this is the norm for that department being that I have personally witnessed it two times myself at the same place? They probably do it quite frequently. Maybe I am a magnet for felony stops there on the corner or something. I don't know. Anyway, I am the last one to bash cops but everyone, including cops, has a duty to act professionally and killing 30# cocker spaniels ain't professional IMO nor is a felony stop with six cars as backup and yelling out commands to the driver that totally contradict what you or another officer just told him. Maybe it is a training issue where I live or is it just another "I want to be a big city cop" thing. Hell, I wouldn't be at all suprised if our littel town had a SWAT team.

GT

[TheeBadOne]

TarpleyG
Those links do have some solid information, but are in no way all inclusive of the calls for service in your area. They only list the major crimes. Most of the calls for service are more minor, disturbance, traffic accidents, suspicious persons, etc. The UCR helps track more of those offenses. Of course the best info is from the department itself as the UCR only tracts arrests. Calls not resulting in arrests do not show up anywhere except in the dept's records. All take time and resources.
It's just that I've seen this same Gestapo type stop twice in two years
I don't think you realize it, but you may be more biased than you think. The cops don't have any influence on how/when criminals decide to act. You may have 1 murder per year, or 5 in one day. (look at the beltway sniper). Seeing 2 high risk traffic stops (the correct term, regular traffic stops are-unknown risk stops) in 2 years is not high, and certainly don't deserve the term "Gestapo".
As far as how busy the police are and what type of people they deal with there are a lot of factors besides population.
Does your city ajoin a larger city (or cities)? If you you have the same bad guys driving through your city.
Do you have major rds/hwys through your city? We are a mobile society. Right now some of the FBI's 10 most wanted are in an automobile driving through someone's nice quite area.
Major routes for drug trafficers- they don't stop in your area, unless stopped by the cops, but are real bad news at times.
Glad you like the area you live in. Sounds like the local coppers are out earning their pay and not sitting on their duffs.

All the best

[TarpleyG]

I guess you still don't understand what I am saying. They seem to have FUN doing it. Like all they have to do on a slow Saturday night is to scare the bejesus outa some guy drinving too fast. Just like they seem to have fun harrassing the kids at the local mall and yes, two high-risk traffic stops in two years right in my backyard IS a lot IMO so I can only assume that they do it quite frequently.

And, yes, maybe I AM biased about the LEOs here in my town. Maybe it's because I don't know any of them.

GT

[TheeBadOne]

TarpleyG
And, yes, maybe I AM biased about the LEOs here in my town. Maybe it's because I don't know any of them.
You probably hit the nail on the head. In general, people tend to fear the unknown, and all societys are xenophobic to some exent.
As for the cops having fun, I'd hope so. Do you really want someone in that position to walk around fuming, angry all the time, or to have someone who is apathetic? Regardless of the job, a worker who has a positive attitude is a boon.

Perhaps you should stop by your local dept. and introduce yourself. Cops are a guarded group as a whole (look at the flaming on some boards and you'll know why), but if given a chance to get to know you will open up to you. See if there is a ride along program, or even an Explorers program (citizen academy or the like). It'll do 2 things for you. First, you'll get to know the cops and see that they are people, just like you and your family/friends. Second, it'll give you an insite to the world of police work.

All the best

[Steel]

Mace or a light tap from a baton: OK
Shooting? Not on a Cocker Spaniel. Something is really wrong here.

[Labinnac]

I have 2 dogs and love them both. They stay within the confines of a fenced yard all the time. It's a big yard so they play in it all the time for hours sometimes. They're both border collie mixes and are very territorial so they bark at everything. Kids, cars, somebody talking outside 8 houses away, squirrels, etc. I make it a point to check on them if they get too excited because of two simple reasons...

First, I love them both and don't want some asshat messing with them. We used to live in TN and they were teased and harrassed by local kids when they were little. I don't hate ALL kids, just the ignorant stupid ones.

Second, I never know when the particular ethereal thing they're barking at is going to be the fuzz, y'dig? I'm a law abiding citizen who loves, respects, and would fight to protect what freedoms I still have. But I don't trust the government and I definitely don't not trust its mindless minions.



I'm sure that there are good cops out there but I've never met any myself yet. Sort of like the elusive sasquatch I guess. Someone said it in an earlier post about law enforcement being a magnet career for the, well, "not so bright"... I always seem to run into the type of moron who would shoot a chained animal because he was on a power trip. That's why this crap happens, btw.

I don't trust cops at all. None of them and I probably never will. My only run ins have always been with the "gestapo poster boys" who were beat up and picked on as children. So, I actively avoid them all. If a squad car is following me in casual traffic I'll turn off just to prevent them from potentially hassling me for something trivial because "they can and will".



They call dog man's best friend for a reason. Ever heard that about cops? Nope! Dogs deserve our respect, love, attention, and protection if need be. Cops and people in general do not. Humans should earn that.

I'll trade a good dog for a bad human any day. But I'd also eat my dog if it turned on me... Too bad we can't eat stupid ignorant cops. There would be a lot more city sponsored public barbeques...

[CZ-75]

Humans first, even if it means trading a good dog for a bad person.


Yep, if it means choosing between a dog and Charlie Manson, I know who to choose. :rolleyes:

[Erik]

Officers shoot more dogs these days because policy dictates that that the correct response to an imminent dog attack is to shoot it. Not spray it. Not hit it. Shoot it.

Policy says so.

Council says so.

Your supervisors say so.

Your trainers say so.

That, folks, is why.

Erik - who has been told more or less the same thing as both a local and federal officer: Shoot 'em or face reprimands.

[Boats]

The consequences?

They'd rather have the certainty of a liabilty carrier picking up the price of a new dog than have the uncertainty of a possible workers' compensation claim.:rolleyes:

[XLMiguel]

Hmmmmm. Was=n't htere, can/'t really say. but on teh buzz, seems excessive.

I've known an oddaisional cocker to be 'nippy'. Nippy ain't a shooting oofense, especially in the dog's own yard. Yell at 'em, spray 'em, smack 'em, uh, OK. Shoot 'em? Only after its ha d ataste. IMNSHO.

Cockers dangerous? Yeah, right. Might pee on your foot if you yell at it. Sheesh. I'm underwhelmed (and proud to be a taxpayer), based on facts as presented.:rolleyes: