[Zundfolge]

This weekend my brother came into town and brought with him his RAP440 and RAP401 (and a nice AR15).

After shooting the RAP pistols I've come to the conclusion that I HAVE to have one. I don't care which one either (although I shot the 9mm slightly better) I tried to talk him into a trade for a nice Bulgarian Mak I have (with Novak sights) but he's not willing to sell or trade.

I've been looking on the gun auction sites but haven't seen one in a while (my brother got both of his off Gunbroker).

Is there anyone on the net who stocks them?

Of course once I find one I'll have to figure a way to pay for it :p

[arinvolvo]

Zund, try century arms, although I beleive they are out of them, and do not have any more on order...

We have been telling you these guns are sweet, no one listened.

[JackDRipper]

Three 401 auctions are on Gunbroker now, here's a link to one.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9745747
You can contact the seller direct at
CrayzCanesSports@aol.com
440's seem very hard to find.
JR

[firestar]

I can't get enough of these RAP threads.:D I have one coming and I should have it by Friday at the latest. I'm getting all antsi in my pantsi. :)

I bought the 9mm (RAP 401). I am soooo glad I didn't wait on it because they are all gone now and I don't know when or where to get anymore. I bet when they show up on the seen again, the dealers will be selling more than they thought they would. Word is getting around about them and people are starting to buy these guns.

This is the longest I have ever had to wait to get a gun and it is driving me crazy. I want to shoot that RAP!

[arinvolvo]

I have a feeling that the price is going to steadily rise also...THR has created a demand for these pistols, and now that they are in short supply, they will be worth more.

Even at 300 dollars they would be a deal, but when they started at a price of 199, it makes you wish you would have jumped on it.

I am glad I got mine when I did....I shot it on Saturday, even put +P through it....I just finished cleaning it, and I see no ill results...I probably wont make a habit out of putting +P through it, as I dont do that to any of my handguns, but the RAP chewed em up, and spit em out with finesse.

[firestar]

arinvolvo,
I doubt that +P ammo will hurt you RAP 401. It is all steel and I bet you will run out of money before you damage a gun like that. +P ammo is so expensive that I don't shoot it unless I am test a gun for reliablity with that ammo.

I don't know if it is just me but I have a very hard time telling the difference between +P and standard 9mm ammo. The only way I can tell the diffence is if I load every other round with +P and then shoot a mag full. If I shoot a mag of +P and then of standard ammo, I can't tell the difference in a full or medium sized gun. With a small and light gun, I can tell but it still is not that much different.

I wonder how much more recoil +P 9mm ammo really has. I shoot Cor-Bon +P and Winchester White Box FMJs for practice/target.
Cor-Bon= 115gr bullet at 1350fps
Win= 147gr bullet at about 1100fps

You're gettin 250 more fps with the Cor-Bon but it is pushing 32 grains less worth of projectile. That is a 22% decrease in mass with a 19% increase in velocity. To my untrained eye, it sounds like a wash. I know it takes more and more energy to propel things to higher and higher velocities but I don't know the efect on felt recoil.

Does anyone know the answer? Why is it that a heavier and slower bullet has more felt recoil than a faster lighter one? For example, a .22mag can deliver 300 foot pounds of energy yet it has far less "felt" recoil as a .45ACP load that delivers that same energy? Even out of the same gun, the .45 will kick more.

Just one of those math/physics questions that seem to stump me.

[Skunkabilly]

What's a RAP pistol? Check check microphone check? :confused:

[WonderNine]

Some South African compact 9mm single stack that everyone's been obsessed with here as of late. :rolleyes:

[9x19]

Its a South African copy of the Astra A75, except for a safety that's much like those on the current Taurus P-92s.

The price was good at just over $200, but the design doesn't do much for me. YMMV

[arinvolvo]

Firestar, I bought a 250 round box of 124 gr +P Speer gold dots for about 50 bucks...so I aint gonna go broke testing it.

And between the 124 gr +P and the 115 gr. WWB, there is a bit of difference. the +P is much louder, and produces a bit more muzzle flip.

I do agree however, that between WWB and Corbon, there is hardly any difference at all in recoil/flip. But like you said, that is a much lighter bullet...and Corbon has put a lot of R&D into keeping recoil down.

Skunk, dont worry about the RAP...it isnt tactical or expensive enough for you.:rolleyes:

[JackDRipper]

Skunkabilly, here's a review of a rap. JR

http://www.cruffler.com/Features/DEC-01/review-December-01.html

[Tropical Z]

FAC had some just a while back.
1-800-486-5971

[jAK-47]

Thanks to Zundfolge I'll soon be taking delivery of my very own RAP401!
:D

Can't wait - here's the owner's picture...

http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/15916RAP401Mine-med.jpg

Ain't she PURTY??

jAK-47

[Zundfolge]

Well, little bro is buying a car from me and part of the deal is for the RAP 401 I posted about almost a year ago :D

[seanmc42]

I bought my RAP 440 of GunsAmerica ~2 months ago for $250, and I DIG IT!
Haven't shot it too much as I also got a couple other guns at the same tims, but I plan to ammend that thia weekend!

Reminds me of a Sig, actually...heavier of course, but smaller!

[seanmc42]

Jsk47 -
Question: I noticed that mags have .40S&W on one side, and 9x19 on the other.
Since the same mags are used by both guns, do they rattle around in your 401 because of the smaller diameter?

[tex_n_cal]

I could live without double action, but the rest of it sounds pretty neat. I always liked the idea of a 1911 scaled down to 9mm size; this one gets close.

[seanmc42]

DA/SA - you can carry it coocked and locked.

[jAK-47]

seanmc42,
I noticed that mags have .40S&W on one side, and 9x19 on the other.


Good question. The pic I posted is the owner's pic. He hasn't sent it to me yet. When I get the gun (probably less than 10 days), I'll do a range report and try to remember to pay attention to that detail.

I just think it's a neat gun and for $250 could not resist.

jAK-47

[themic]

whoa! RAP thread! and here i got in late on this one.

Solid as a rock. (Heavy as a rock, too)

General tips:

I made my own IWB holster with some scrap vegetable tanned-leather. Easy to do, hard to do well. I also use a generic Uncle Mike's for range use at times.

Put a drop of superglue on the sights. Ask arinvolvo.

You'll need a good gun belt.

The friggin box it comes in gives me hell. Neat idea, hard to open.

The price is based partly on increased demand, partly on currency fluctuations.

Put whatever you want through it. Go ahead and try to get it to jam or do anything wrong. It won't. Won't shoot perfect 10 rings, but it'll shoot every time, and handles well.

It is my carry piece since shortly after I got it. If I carried everyday, I might get a lighter gun, but it conceals wonderfully.

And wait until you open the box on your $200-something handgun and see the polishing job they did on the feed ramp.

You can carry de-cocked or cocked and locked, whichever you prefer. I go with de-cocked, because i kindof like the super-heavy first trigger pull.

I love this gun, and everyone who tries it loves it. It's not a Sig, or a fancified 1911, but it's honest and reliable and ready for a hard day's work anytime.

[arinvolvo]

Gonna have to agree with everything themic said.

the white inserts of the sights will fall out...promise.

Put some super glue over them.

and then just TRY to get it to fail. No dice. I carried mine a bit...easy to carry due to size...but still heavy, a good stiff belt is in order. Kinda miss mine...wish i wouldnt have got rid of it. Here she is next to the sig 239 that replaced her...BETRAYED!!


http://www.lousignont.com/arins/sigrap.jpg

[themic]

hey wow they really are about the same size. had always wondered how close they were, arin.

i've never actually had problems with my sights, and by the time arinvolvo had problems i'd been carrying for a while, without that drop of superglue, and so i figured they were in for good on mine. still, though, seems like a good precaution that should be taken considering others have had the sights problem. i'll probably eventually put a drop on mine... never seem to get around to it.

[arinvolvo]

mine fell out on the third shot.

the 239 is substantially bigger, feels bigger to hold, and to carry.

To tell the truth, the RAP is a much more comfortable gun. way better grip shape etc.

ALSO, the safety is also the decocker, so i wouldnt carry cocked and locked...almost impossible to UN SAFE the gun and not accidentally decock it.

[arinvolvo]

BTW< i ended up picking the remaining white inserts out, and filling all the holes with epoxy, then painting the dots yellow/green.

[Tropical Z]

LOL-Those boxes they come in are something else! :what:

[seanmc42]

Arinvolvo's had his much longer than I have, but my decocker/safety is much harder to decock than to safety off - meaning it's real easy to safety off without decocking. Mine might be much newer though, this being a case a wear-in.
Gotta agree on the sights though - mine came with one already gone ;)
I am planning an getting some night sights installed however...

[jAK-47]

sean,

meaning it's real easy to safety off without decocking.

I haven't received mine yet but just looking at the picture, I was wondering about that. If I did use it in IDPA or a once-in-a-while CCW, I wouldn't want to decock when I only wanted to de-safety:uhoh:

Let me know what you decide on the night sights. I have the Trijicons on my G26 and love them. But I wonder about spending 1/2 what the gun's worth on new sights...


Thanks,
jAK-47

[sgtb]

Does anyone know of any wholesalers with these in stock? I think I would like to pick one up. Thanks for any help.

[Tropical Z]

I dont think anybody has em right now.When they show up,it will probably be at www.gunsnstuff.net

[albanian]

I had one a while back. It was well machined and seemed to be of good quality but my trigger spring broke. I called everywhere trying to get a replacement part and there are NO parts to be had. Big downside to owning a gun like this. It was reliable but not very accurate. Heavy as a full sized hi-cap 9mm pistol with half the capacity. The grip was just a tad short to hold comfortably with all my fingers and I don't have large hands. I needed a knife or a thin bladed screwdriver to open the box.

This was the only gun that I couldn't sell. I would take it to dealers and tell them that the trigger spring was broke and they falt out wouldn't even offer anything for it. They said, they couldn't sell a gun that they didn't know what it was.:scrutiny:

I would pass on the RAP 401. South African guns don't have great reputations anyway. If you are in the market for a smaller single stack DA 9mm, the Kahr and SIG 239 are two of the very best. I am not trashing the RAP but I regreted buying it and since no one has said anything negative about it, I figuired I would add a little bit of downside just to let you know that it is a risk. I may have had the only bad RAP and if that is the case, then you should be fine.

[Alerion]

Question: I noticed that mags have .40S&W on one side, and 9x19 on the other.
Since the same mags are used by both guns, do they rattle around in your 401 because of the smaller diameter?

Nope. The 9mm rounds won't rattle around because they're still going to be held snug to the top of the magazine by the follower. The angle between the rounds will be a little wider with the nines and I suspect that the top round sits a little higher than a .40 since the feed lips aren't changed to accomodate the smaller diameter rounds but the same magazine works just as well for either round. Rattling isn't going to be a factor.

Tom


My 401;

[arinvolvo]

albanian...thanks for the other side of the RAP story.

I personally never had any problems with my RAP and it seems like a sturdy pistol.

Can you make a new trigger spring with parts from a different gun? It is true that replacement parts should be hard to ocme by...and local resale value may not be there. however, i had no problem selling mine on the internet.

[Zundfolge]

albanian, do you still have your RAP? If so would you be interested in selling it as a parts gun?

[arinvolvo]

good call Z.

[themic]

yeah, there's definitely a parts risk with buying this gun. mags are easy to come by, but parts won't be.

honestly, and maybe this is naive of me, i've always figured that if something broke or wore out, such as springs, then i'd find a similar sized gun, buy it's springs, and cut as necessary and find something that works. or if that doesn't work, then find a gunsmith or a metalsmith who can make something.

haven't had to worry bout it yet, and honestly this thing seems indestructable, but that's the risk you take with getting this sort of bargain deal i guess

[arinvolvo]

that is my thinking too...and i am hoping that is the case with my autauga...all of the parts are relatively simple, and could be made pretty easy i suppose.

but i am not betting on it breaking down. fingers crossed.

[seanmc42]

Republic arms is still in business - aren't they?
I think they're name is Cobra now, though.
Do they not make the RAP any longer?

[Ash]

That's the wrong Republic. I cannot recall, but Republic Arms, Pretiria South Africa may or may not still be in business. I had an RAP 440 that I liked very much, had the smoothest double action I have ever felt in an auto, and was quite accurate for me. I hope the punk who stole it from my Jeep likes it. I also hope he remains unknown.

Ash

[seanmc42]

Are you sure?
See here:

http://www.cruffler.com/Features/DEC-01/review-December-01.html

Says Republic Arms is in Jeppestown, SA.

[arinvolvo]

jeppestown, pretoria, and johannesburg are all in the same general area.

I believe my RAP had a Johannesburg rollmark on it.

it may just be a difference of where the headquarters are vs. the manufacturing facilities. Thos cities look to be a few miles from eachother.

[arinvolvo]

Cobra arms (which used to be repuplic arms) is a different company, and is now out of salt lake city.