[DontShootMe]

Still drooling over .45's

Soon (after house re-finance) I will have enough to purchase a .45 caliber pistol up to $1000 (self imposed limit)

I rented a kimber full size at the range and man, for a dirty range gun it was very nice. My only complaint was that the slide release is a mile away from my thumb. I had to totally change my grip to depress it. Question: are all 1911 style pistols this way?

I have shot a friends G21, and it was very nice as well. His is a pre-ban. My only complaint is that if I buy a .45 full size that could hold more than 10, I'd feel kind of cheated buying here in Kali. Guess I shoulda bought mags for every caliber before the ban 'just in case' but I digress, hindsight is 20/20.

I have fired a Sig .40 cal, and like everyone says, the trigger was a dream. Does the 220 .45 have an equally buttery smooth trigger?

So anyway, this is strictly a WANT gun, I'm content with 9mm/12 gauge for HD. But since the potential expenditure is approaching 1000 dollars, I want to be pretty sure I haven't overlooked some obvious winner.

Thanks for your input! :)

[Sean Smith]

You should be able to find an STI Trojan for under $1,000.

http://www3.mailordercentral.com/shootingstore/prodinfo.asp?number=STI11509

[WonderNine]

I keep hearing about how high quality the Trojans are for the price. Do they make any without the 'dagger' beavertail? :barf:

How much does a stainless run? Is a spur hammer an option?

[10-Ring]

For range use & HD, my thoughts go to the HK USP Expert 45 :D

[Ala Dan]

I voted for the SIG-Sauer P220! :) :D :uhoh:

Cuz, once you master it, you will LOVE IT for a LIFETIME!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Marko Kloos]

If you don't have one yet, you owe it to yourself to get a good 1911. Nothing beats a well-fitted 1911 and the incomparable 1911 trigger and ergonomics. $1000 will get you a very good example of the breed, like a Springfield Loaded or Kimber TLE.

My only complaint was that the slide release is a mile away from my thumb. I had to totally change my grip to depress it. Question: are all 1911 style pistols this way?

The nice thing about the 1911 is that it's the Chevy small block of guns. It is the most cusomizable handgun out there, and that includes any style of extended or standard slide release lever.

If double-action handguns are more your cup of tea, the SIG P220 is hard to beat. Even the 220ST stainless variant with the steel frame will set you back a good deal less than $1000.

[denfoote]

If it's gunna be a range gun, then why spend a whole heck of a lot of money on it!! ;) I'd suggest the Ruger P97!! :D It's inexpensive, accurate, and fun to shoot!!! :evil: It will put hole into the bad guy just as easily as a tricked out 1911 when used for home defense!! :cool:

[DontShootMe]

I just took a good look at the styles/prices of the Springfield and Kimber lines, and they sure are beauties! :cool:

[MoNsTeR]

I love 1911's, and SIGs sure are nice, but there's no better value than a Ruger.

[9x19]

If money is a concern, get the Ruger KP-97, stainless and polymer, great accurcy IME, durable and easy to operate, plus they have a $40 rebate right now.

If you want to spend $100 more, get a Glock 21. Mine is accurate and reliable, plus easily accessesorized if that appeals to you.

Those are my choices, good luck making your own. :D

[digex]

Definitely take a look at the Para Ordnace line as well. I just bought a P10-45 which is their sub-compact .45 that still holds 10 rounds. It shoots very nice and feels great in my hand. Just something to think about since you didn't have them listed.
Tommy

[Sactown]

I'd suggest a STI Trojan, but they're not shipping to Kali until the federal law to protect gun mfg gets passed. My next choice would be a Kimber and then a Springfield Armory.

[riverdog]

Kimbers and Springfields are okay, but I'd recommend one of the new Colt Series 70's but you being in CA, one of the new 1991A1's would be fine also. Colt quality has made vast improvements in recent years and it shows in the pistols they're selling.

[DontShootMe]

Are para's ok for kali sale?

[DontShootMe]

riverdog, so you're saying that for kali I cant get the series 70?

[Ian11]

SIG P220ST for me. Its always a "special occasion" whenever I shoot that beauty. Great range gun and an even better home defense gun.

But since you seem to be leaning towards 1911's. A Colt 1911 either the new rollmark 1991's, Series 70, or XSE model lightly modified (It'll still be less than $1000). If you're gonna get a 1911 might as well get the American classic. And Colt is turning out some of the highest quality 1911's in the market these days IMO. They don't have all the bells and whistles but you'll know you're getting quality. But I'll admit if I had @$1000 I'd look long and hard at the 1911's made by Valtro.

The Glock 21 is a fantastic .45 Very controllable full size .45 and very accurate to boot. My favorite polymer .45 The grip is a bit thick and it only holds 10 rounds for us Californians but 10 rounds of .45 is enough for me.

*Yes, the "slide release" is that way on all 1911's. But I sling shot slides on all my autos so its a non-issue.

As far as the triggers on SIGs the DA/SA triggers on SIG's tend to be smoother than most others in my experience. But some SIG triggers are better than others. If you're unsatisfied with yours you can send your new pistol to SIG and they'll smooth it up for you for free. They did that for my P220 standard model.

[DontShootMe]

man that stainless colt XSE 1911 is around the same price as the springfields and kimbers! wth 8 round capacity!

Well now I'm leaning heavily towards a COLT :D

decisions... decisions...

[12 Volt Man]

I voted CZ. I own the CZ97B and my brother in law who I shoot most with owns a Springfield Loaded. Both of us shoot the CZ more accurately. I will probably own a 1911 one day. I really like the Olive Drab Springfield Loaded with Novak Night sights, but I don't think it will replace my CZ as first choice.

[Alfadog]

I voted 1911 of course. Stick with a full size 5" steel frame gun from a major manufacturer (Colt, Springfield, or Kimber). You will be able to get a new one for WELL under your $1,000 limit. I like Colts the best, but I would not buy one sight unseen. (Example: last week, I saw a $1200+ Colt Gunsite Pistol that had a trigger that was so loose it rattled around in the frame.) I do think Colt uses the best parts of the big 3 1911 makers. The best Colts are the 1991 series and the Series 70 reissue. The XSE models, IMO, do not stand up well to comparison with the Springfield Loaded series guns.

I also like the Springfield Loaded guns, as they come with a decent beavertail and good sights (real Novaks). They come with an idiotic key lock in the mainspring housing, but this is easily removed by changing the mainspring housing and mainspring. I'd also ditch the two-piece guide rod (replace with short GI style), titanium firing pin (replace with steel), and the extra-extra power firing pin spring (replace with standard Wolff XP).

I'm not as familiar with the Kimber models but a lot of 1911 shooters seem to like them. Likewise, I've never gotten the chance to examine an STI but the Trojan is right in your $1,000 price range and I've never heard or read anything negative about them.

All 1911s have the slide release located in the same place. You can get extended slide releases, but most knowledgeable shooters avoid them. You are much better off learning to operate the slide release with the thumb of your support hand (assuming you're a rightie) or just pulling back the slide.

I've shot the G21 and it's okay but doesn't really do it for me (it feels like you are trying to wrap your hand around a 2x4). I don't personally care for the SIG pistols as I can't seem to get a comfortable grip on them without resting my thumb on the slide release. I've never come across a SIG that had a trigger that was anything to write home about (maybe it's just me). The CZ 97 seems like a well built gun but feels too big and clumsy for my taste. None of the Ruger centerfire pistols appeal to me. I recall Cooper stating in his Commentaries that he had never seen a Ruger .45 make it through a full week course at Gunsite.

If you really want to save some money, you could try to find a used S&W Model 4506. These guns were very popular in the late 80s-early 90s, but are somewhat out of favor today. I see them at very low prices quite often. Almost all of the Third Generation S&W pistols I've handled have had very good DA and passable SA trigger pulls. The steel frame versions are known for durability. The only negatives on these guns are the bass-ackwards Walther PP/PPK/P38 type slide-mounted safety and (IMO) the magazine disconnect safety.

[riverdog]

Correct, AFAIK Colt Series 70's have not been submitted for testing. IIRC, Colt is keeping them as limited production pistols and neither the S70 or the WWI/WWII repros will be certified for sale in CA. The new 1991A1's are good pistols however. Reliable with decent accuracy and a good trigger pull out-of-the-box.

I've got two 1991A1's. The first was purchased just after Colt went to the new rollmark. It had some reliability issues so I sent it out for work and it came back as a great range/PD gun, but with a dislike for Wilson mags. So I use other mags and there's no problem. That pistol has all the bells and whistles. The second I just recently bought and it was great out-of-the-box. I haven't and won't do anything to it. I may change the grips but that's something you (or at least I) do with every 1911. It came with rosewood double diamond grips so I need to think about it.

Edit: As an example of quality improvement, the early 1991A1 came with a MIM extractor. I immediately replaced it with a Wilson bulletproof (easy to do) and never had a problem. The new Colt came with a much higher quality extractor (barstock IIRC) which may be why the newer one performs so much better.

BTW, Colt does use a few MIM parts, but for some reason they don't have the problems associated with Kimber's MIM parts. Check out the Colt forum (http://www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26) for related threads.

[riverdog]

I have a Glock G21 as well. I used to shoot both the G21 and a 1911 on the same range day and did both a disservice. They have different feel and very different triggers -- one or the other. My G21 is in deep storage now. It's a great pistol, but for now I'm doing 1911s.

[DontShootMe]

It really says something to me when out of 62 votes, nearly 60% are for the 1911 style. That pretty much settles it for me! So now, after reading all of your fine posts (thanks btw), I have decided to purchase one of these:

Colt
Springfield
Kimber

As far as details go, I'd really like a stainless.

I'm undecided about mag capacity. 7 is acceptable but I notice that some models hold 8 - is there a trade-off for the extra capacity?

I'm going to start a new poll with a more specific list of models of colt, springfield, and kimber. Please feel free to add any input you'd like along the lines of Alfadog and riverdogs posts.

Thanks guys! :D

[Alfadog]

Dontshoot:

Glad my earlier post was helpful.

I'm rather partial to stainless myself. IMO, the Colt 1991 Stainless is a little more attractive than the stainless Springfield guns. I prefer the brushed stainless finish of the Colt to the more polished look of the Springfields. I think Springfield's roll marks look better on a dark finished gun.

Regarding magazines, don't concern yourself greatly with what is included with the gun--none of them are that great. IMO, the best OEM 1911 mags are the Colt seven-rounders with the "M" mark on the floorplate, which indicates that they were made by Metalform. The 1911 is the one pistol where SOME aftermarket mags are better than factory.

As far as seven versus eight round magazines, the trade off is long term durability. If you leave mags loaded for an extended period of time, you are probably better of with seven-rounders.

The general consensus seems to be that the Chip McCormick Power-Mags (eight round) and the Wilson "#47" mags in both seven and eight round versions are the best. The CMC mags are reputed to have better (stronger, longer-lasting) springs, while the follower design of the Wilsons is generally considered superior, but the springs are not so hot. I have 4 Wilson seven-round mags and I'm not terribly impressed with them. The springs were very weak and with two of these mags I had several failures to feed on the last round. I replaced the stock springs with ISMI extra power springs and the followers with Metalform steel round top followers. They work much better now, but I have about $45 invested in each one of these mags. :what: I'm buying CMC Power Mags next time (I think Natchez has them for about $17).

[Gunfyter]

Get a full-size 1911 regardless of brand. I have a Kimber Royal and love it. The slide release is to be operated by your left thumb while maintaining your grip. Seven and eight round mags are available from all of the manufacturers. BUY QUALITY MAGS. This is one area that you avoid cheap.

[Ian11]

7 or 8 rounds make sure you get mags that are reliable in your 1911. That's more important than anything else. Mags by Wilson seem to work for most people but by no means are they "perfect".

Stick with the classic single stack John Browning design. Did I mention Colt? Oh my, well yes I did:D :p

[DamnedDirtyApe]

Around here prices ... YMMV

Glock 30/21 ... $550.00
Springfield M1911A1 ... $399.00

With your $1000 budget, you can afford to own both of them.

[PCRCCW]

54% for 1911's when they are at least 75-85% of the 45's on the market....IMO...shows people are looking elsewhere for their big and slow's once in a while.
I vote for CZ...but the Sig and 1911's are still stellar guns.............
shoot well

[Mike Irwin]

I voted S&W...

But an S&W Model 1917 revolver...

It can frequently be found in my nighstand drawer...

[BryanP]

I love my sweet little P220. My second choice would probably have to be a Ruger.

[Prodigalshooter]

I voted CZ, czuse I just got one and I've still got that new gun lust going:D But I'd never give up my 1911s!
But, for the spending cap you've set, you could put together two pistols; a Ruger & a 1911 Mil-spec; a CZ & a Mil-spec or any number of variations. With a little luck and some serious shopping around, it can be done.