Brass Frame Remington Questions


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CavemanEngineer
June 5, 2007, 07:50 PM
I have a Pietta 1858 Remington with Brass frame, I got it a few months ago and just finished off my 6th or 7th box of Speer balls. I have filed the front sight aand can now hit 5 out of 6 Pepsi cans at 25 or so yards. I have a big budget issue and have read everything I can, but still looking for more, and have taken advise from the local gunsmith and the sporting goods store. OK I am making my own wads out of 7/8" cleaning pads and "soaking" them in bore butter, lots cheaper than real ones and my Pops says to just cut up an old T-shirt it will work. I was using the grain measure and playing with amounts but discovered that my flask nozzle holds just a little more than 30 grains, so I have gotten used to it at that amount. I can only get 777 FFFg at the store so I again have become used to it. The only part that has given up is the hand and I have replaced. What is going to go wrong what is going to wear out? Any information will be welcome.

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Donny
June 5, 2007, 09:05 PM
Other than hand springs going on revolvers, bolt and trigger springs often break. They are inexpensive and easy to fix. Be sure you use good screw drivers when working on your revolver because the screw heads on these reproductions are soft and bung up easily. Also, 777 is kind of hot to be using in a brass framed revolver so get some pyrodex or old fashioned black if you can. If you can't then back off on the 777 charge so you don't over stress the brass frame. The Remmie frames are stronger than the Colt frames but even a Remmie will stretch if your using full charges of 777.

Don

CavemanEngineer
June 5, 2007, 09:58 PM
Thank you, all the sporting goods store has is that 777 FFFg and I can't see an extra $20 for hazmat and can't afford 50lbs or whatever. Is there a way to get a smaller nozzle for my flask to hold a lesser charge...only lazyness as it removes that extra step in measuring. I usually shoot about 1/2 a box of balls at a time, sometimes more. I am pushing 40 years old and this is my first black powder gun and I am not going back it is a hell of a lot of fun. Yes I have already buggered a screw. I am looking for another but want this one to last for my kids. I dont like the colt style but have never held one. I also have to say that it still looks like new, it hasn't aged the way I thought it would but cleaning it is 1/2 the fun. Again thank you

mec
June 5, 2007, 10:00 PM
30 Grains/Volume equivalent might be a bit much for a brass frame. we have used 24-25 with good results in several .44 revolvers. H777 is less predictable than black powder or pyrodex but it seems to work best when seated just to touch the top of the powder and without any substantial compression.
It would probably be best to stick with .451" balls as these are right for the .447-8" chambers on most piettas. they will minimize the force needed for seating. this might be important with the brass frame as there is not much metal at the bottom/front of the frame. One shooter reported colapsing his frame at that point when applying a great deal of force on the seating lever.

If you are rolling pepsi cans at 75 feet and have gotten through that many boxes of balls, you are definately doing something right.

CavemanEngineer
June 5, 2007, 10:12 PM
Would I be ok in cutting off the end of the nozzle to about 25 grains, Not that it's a speedy loading revolver but durning the 2nd box of balls I discovered that the flask holds just over 30(the max on my measurer) some spilled over. I have been using .451 but one box was .454 and it left a thicker lead ring in the loading lever and hanging out the cylinder that I had to Q-tip out, they were out of .451. I can't hit #6 to save my life but I love to watch them fly through the air, my 22 just knocks them down. Thank you

Old Dragoon
June 5, 2007, 11:52 PM
It is easy to cut the end off your spout. I'd measure about 28-30 Grns FFG BP (not 777) and pour that into your spout with the bp flask lever closed mark the outside of the spout with a magic marker, let the BP back into the flask, unscrew the spout and cut it off. file or sand down the cut.
I just did that manuver to get a consistant charge for my 2nd Gen. Colt 1851 Navies (28 r=grns FFG holy Black.

I shoot 28-30 grns FFFG real BP in my Remy Originals and in the repro's I've had with good Accuracy. I haven't used 777, so some one that has will tell you an accurate(for their gun) load. I'd try a few gens either way to get a good load for your gun. Then whack off the spout.

CavemanEngineer
June 6, 2007, 12:17 AM
I guess I am on the right track thank you, here in north eastern arizona I only have 2 places to get supplies and I have only ever been able to get that 777. I am now looking for a spot to get real BP I guess. Should I be looking for FFg or FFFg and is there a noticable difference or better still what is the difference. Again thank you for schooling me

mykeal
June 6, 2007, 06:59 AM
Why not just buy a powder measure from one of the online sites? Seems that would be a lot easier than cutting off the spout.

2F is slightly coarser than 3F. I use 3F in revolvers/pistols and 2F in rifles and shotguns.

ED21
June 6, 2007, 09:42 AM
Good for you in first, asking the questions and last in becoming involved in these great firearms.

1. You can cut the spout as recommended which is good and will work or you can go to one of the BP sites such as http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(5kkrmjexoaurov55y3dzxi2a))/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=1&subID=11&styleID=34 to buy a smaller spout.

2. As stated, the brass frame is subject to stretching over time. When budget allows, you might want to move to a steel frame for more peace of mind.

3. Question on your use of wads. Why? Seat the ball/bullet right on the powder. If you are concerned about flash igniting other chambers just add a little grease (crisco or such) over the end after the ball/bullet is seated. A little messy but works great.

4. I have not used 777 so am not much help here. From what I have read and heard, 777 is more powerful in equivelant volume measures. As recommended here I would suggest lowering your charge as you are shooting a brass frame. Steel frame would not be a problem. I contend that one can not over charge a revolver with traditional BP or exact substitute. 777??

5. It has always been accepted that FFFg is for handguns and rifles less than .50 cal. FFg is for rifles and shotguns greater than .50 cal. Just a standard we always lived by. When using FFFg in larger calebre rifles, we would reduce the charge by about 20%. (NOTE: NEVER use FFFFg as a main charge. It is only for priming.)

Hope this helps and GOOD SHOOTING.:)

mykeal
June 8, 2007, 08:42 AM
777 should be reduced at least 10% and preferably 15% by volume below the intended real bp load. Thus if you want to shoot 30 gr fffg bp then you should use 25 gr fffg 777 (just rounding down a little - 25 gr is easier to measure than 25.5) by volume.

And ED21 - you ask why use wads when you could use a little grease - you answered your own question: "A little messy..." Actually, on a hot day, it's a lot messy. JMHO

foghornl
June 8, 2007, 12:34 PM
I recall seeing somewhere that if you used the 777 instead of Pyrodex or the 'real' blackpowder, you needed to reduce the powder volume by 15% to get equal velocity/pressure.

Probably saw that on Hodgdon's website, since they make both Pyro & 777.

I don't have a Remmy repro right now, but my Pietta "Navy Colt" likes 24-25 Gr of "P" Pyrodex. Haven't tried the 777 stuff yet. The CVA "Army Remington" I had years ago was best with 31 Gr of "P" Pyrodex.

Oh yeah...good call on the wads or grease. If you ever have a 'chain fire', well........it is not something easily forgotten. Never mind HOW I know...I just know:evil:

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