S&W M&P Roundcount and Notes


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Coronach
June 6, 2007, 02:05 AM
M&P 40 Fullsize Roundcount and Malfunction History

Total Rounds: 2592
Total Malfunctions*: 5
Reliability: 99.78%

1080 rnds Blazer 180gr TMJ. Malfunctions: 4
800 rnds Fiocchi 170gr FMJFN. Malfunctions: 1
200 rnds Ultramax 180gr FMJ. Malfunctions: 0
162 rnds Federal 180gr HST. Malfunctions: 0
350 rnds Fiocchi 170gr FMJTC GUN DOES NOT FUNCTION WITH THIS AMMO*

* See posts below

M&P 40 Compact Roundcount and Malfunction History

Total Rounds: 747
Total Malfunctions: 8
Reliability: 98.85%

50 rnds Blazer 180gr TMJ. Malfunctions: 1
200 rnds Ultramax 180gr FMJ. Malfunctions: 3
420 rnds Blazer Brass 180gr FMJ. Malfunctions 4
27 rnds Federal 180gr HST. Malfunctions: 0
50 rnds Wolf 180gr FMJ GUN DOES NOT FUNCTION WITH THIS AMMO*

I originally had this as a section of my sig file, but it got to be too unwieldy and limiting. Putting it here allows me to keep track of my rounds through these guns, and also allows others to see how well (or poorly) the M&P shoots. If you have any questions, ask away.

The ammo tested is either what I have on hand, personally, or stuff issued by my PD (HST for duty, Blazer for training). If you have an ammo request, drop me a PM or post it. If you want to buy me ammo, hey...who am I to complain? ;) I'll take a sponsor!

Mike

Last updated 3/3/8

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Coronach
June 6, 2007, 02:52 AM
Blazer 180gr TMJ
4 Malfunctions: 2 fail to fire (hard primers or light primer strikes), 2 failures to strip rounds from downloaded magazines (magazine issue?). All malfunctions occurred in first 500 rounds.

Fiocchi 170gr FMJFN
1 Malfunction: Hard primer or light primer strike (occurred around 600 rounds through the gun).

Federal 180gr HST
0 Malfunctions

GUN DOES NOT FUNCTION WITH FIOCCHI 170GR FMJTC
The gun will jam every other round with this ammo. It seems to be related to the profile of the bullet, which has a very sharp angle from the flat nose to the conical profile of the side of the bullet. I have put 350 rounds though the gun with this ammo, and it is very consistent; it just won't run. I did not include this in the malfunction tally simply because it was obvious that the ammo shape is the cause, and I was skewing the stats by trying to make the gun choke. No, it's not completely fair to just wipe out the malfunctions from the tally, but neither is it fair to include 100 malfunctions just because I'm stubborn. ;)

The take home point from this is that truncated-cone style ammo probably won't run, so don't buy it! It's not just my gun, I gave some ammo to a few co-workers and their M&Ps choked on it, too. Caveat: if you buy Fiocchi ammo for your M&P, make sure it is FMJFN, not FMJTC. Specify before you buy (Sportsman's Guide sent me a mixed lot), because some places treat the two as interchangable.

Coronach
June 6, 2007, 03:13 AM
Blazer Brass 180gr FMJ
I experienced three malfunctions on my first range trip. Each of them was a case of the slide locking back on a magazine with one round remaining. Two of the malfunctions occurred with full-size magazines, which stick out significantly below the frame of the pistol and have a noticable amount of fore and aft play. This movement may or may not be bad, but at least one of the malfunctions happened when I was gripping the mag pretty firmly with my pinkie: this might have moved the magazine enough to trip the slide stop.

While I don't find the reliability to be acceptable yet, I will note:

1. If you have to have a malfunction, this would be the one to have. If it happens, you will eject the onboard mag and lose one round, or manually hit the slide release. Not ideal by any means, but a heck of a lot better than a double-feed.

2. The magazines are really hard to load, and the movement of the followers seems funky and full of hitches. This mirrors my experience with the full-size gun...and after a few range trips they smoothed out.

3. The full-size M&P also had a few issues with magazines on its first outing, that have not resurfaced since. Here's hoping the Compact does the same.

Update 7/1/7: At rnd 250, the Compact got Dan Burwell's trigger job. What a great investment. Overtravel is gone, reset is positive, and any grittiness in the pull is eliminated. 100 rounds to check function, no problems.

Update 7/17/7: 10 round magazine (E) locked back with one round in the mag, at about round 470. Almost every malfunction has been of this type.

Blazer 180gr TMJ

One instance of the gun not going into battery, between round #350 and #400. I'm not sure if it hung up waaaaaaaay early on its trip to the chamber, or if the slide locked back on a not-empty magazine (I was in a hurry, as I was qualifying with the gun for OD/BUG carry). I just slingshot the slide and it went into battery without a hitch. The magazine used was a 10-rounder (D).

Update 6/16/7: The magazines get a LOT easier to load after they sit loaded for two weeks. ;) Zero malfunctions.

Ultramax 180gr FMJ

I had two failures to extract using this ammo on its first outing. I don't know, yet, if this was the gun, the ammo, or my shooting grip (I was tinkering around with it), but I'll be keeping an eye on it.

Update 8/21/7: Another failure to extract, using the Ultramax.

Wolf Ammo

Update 5/21/8: The gun comprehensively fails with Wolf. Failures to feed and extract.

gudel
June 6, 2007, 03:29 AM
I'd like to see pics of wear area of this pistol please

Coronach
June 6, 2007, 03:45 AM
Give me a few days, and I'll post 'em. Not much to show, really.

Mike

Autolycus
June 6, 2007, 04:19 AM
Sounds like it is a hell of a pistol. How do you feel it compares to the other major makers such as Glock, Sig, HK, and Springfield's XD?

Coronach
June 7, 2007, 07:36 PM
I'd say "as good." Mechanical reliablity seems to be acceptable, but the only way to know for sure is to build up a track record. My PD torture tested the design, along with several others (Glock and Sig included). The M&P was fine. The Glock was fine. The Sig (forget which model) had trouble, though I'm not sure how much useful information you can really glean from such tests.

I think that the major differences between the different guns you mention are ergonomics, trigger systems, and other things that are as much a matter of personal preference as they are anything else. I personally find the M&P to handle and shoot better than a Glock, or the service pistol offerings of H&K or Sig, but others will find the opposite to be true.

I shot an XD45 the other day and I really like it. I'm not sure I like it better than the M&P, but it certainly is good. I have found that I really have come to hate DA/SA triggers (many of the Sigs & HKs), and the Glock trigger, even the after-market ones, is just so mediocre to me. The XD's trigger was pretty good, though.

It's mostly personal preference.

Mike

mlandman
June 7, 2007, 08:06 PM
I took my NIB M&P9c to the range for the first time today. 275 rounds with 0 malfunctions. 250 Am Eagle 115 gr FMJ & 25 Golden Saber SD rounds. I fed 1 full size mag w/17 rounds in it. Fed all 17 fine. In the first loading I had to work to get all 12 in the 2 mags that came with the Compact. It was also very hard to lock the mag into the grip with all 12 loaded. The mag felt as if it was getting spring bound. The follower is not as secure as in the full-size mag. The first 2 -3 rounds do not really "want" to be inserted. By the end of the session I was able to load all 12 easier.
The gun shoots better than I (no big shock there!)

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2311/dscn4850vf7.jpg

johndoe1027
June 7, 2007, 08:24 PM
Hope you don't mind if I join in, if so, you can just delete my post. ;)

1796 rounds through my 9mm compact with 2, count em 2, malfunctions.

One FTRTB (by about .01") on round #5 after coming straight out of the new box with no field strip, locked the slide back, two drops of hoppes on the inside of the slide rails, little on the chamber and barrel tip, then fire! Can't count that according to most guys. Most wouldn't even mention it but I do.

Then one FTE on about round #1300 with an Atlanta reload that are pretty crappy rounds really. I didn't get to see which brass it was on the floor but I'm 99.999% sure it was a bad case.

Couldn't attach my round count spreadsheet, looks like 12 different kinds of ammo so far. I love it I love it I love it! Did I forget to tell you guys how I feel about the M&P guns? :D

Also, shamless plug for the M&P forums in my sig. Good place for specific questions. :cool:

WWB - Remington - Gold Dot - Gold Dot +P - Cor-Bon JHP - Independence - Atlanta - Golden Saber - Hornady TAP - Magtech - Blazer Alum

Coronach
June 7, 2007, 11:25 PM
yeah, feel free to join in. I'm just going to edit the first three posts with updated info as I get it.

Mike

nwilliams
June 7, 2007, 11:59 PM
I've got you beat:neener:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=278485

Since I posted this I've put another 500 rounds through it! Did 200 today at the range, still not a single problem!

The gun has earned my respect again, but again knock-on-wood;)

Just ordered another case of S&B, maybe I can make it last a little longer this time:rolleyes:

Coronach
June 8, 2007, 09:07 AM
:D

ShooterMcGavin
June 9, 2007, 04:48 PM
Here is my M&P experience...

M&P 40 Fullsize Roundcount and Malfunction History

Total Rounds: 1850
Total Malfunctions: 0
Reliability: 100%

Ammo used:
WWB 165gr FMJ - 200
Federal Hydra-shok 165gr - 30
Blazer 180gr JHP - 30
Double Tap 200gr WFN - 30
HSM 180gr? FMJ reloads - 1560 (2 case failures)

Notes: Straight out of the box, the M&P40 was not cleaned or lubed for the first 700 rounds. That included 200 WWB FMJ, 470 HSM FMJ reloads, and 30 Federal Hydra-shok. A couple drops of lube were added to the rails before the next 180 rounds (HSM reloads). At 880 rounds, the gun was stripped, cleaned, and lubed. It is now cleaned and lubed after every range session (usually 2-300 rounds). There has never been a malfunction of any type.

MassMark
June 10, 2007, 12:25 PM
Coronach - Interesting thread! Thanks for sharing your findings on your M&P. I'm chomping at the bit to get a .45 M&P and threads like this are encouraging. I hope you don't mind a copycat when the time comes for my .45 M&P - seems like a good semi-formal way to keep folks informed.

I do have a question: With all the ammo choices available, it seems you're somewhat limited in the rounds you're testing. Is there a reason for this? Just curious and thanks again....

Dobe
June 10, 2007, 02:01 PM
Yeah, thanks for the information. I have been thinking about an M&P for my wife. She wants the Glock, I want her to have the M&P...small hands.

Coronach
June 10, 2007, 03:13 PM
I do have a question: With all the ammo choices available, it seems you're somewhat limited in the rounds you're testing. Is there a reason for this? Just curious and thanks again....I tend to buy bulk. That explains the Fiocchi: I got 1k rounds of it, in a mixed shipment (FMJFN and the dreaded FMJTC) that I'm still burning through. I am issued Federal HST as a duty round, so I naturally want to make darned sure it runs in my gun. The Blazer is what we use in my department for training. So, once I'm dry on the Fiocchi, I'll buy whatever else I can get cheaply.

She wants the Glock, I want her to have the M&P...small hands.I would strongly encourage you to invite her to shoot both and decide for herself. ;)

Mike

gudel
June 10, 2007, 03:25 PM
GUN DOES NOT FUNCTION WITH FIOCCHI 170GR FMJTC


interesting you mentioend that, my XD40 jams a lot with that ammo.
This 170gr ammo works fine in G22 & HK P2000.

Dobe
June 10, 2007, 03:28 PM
I would strongly encourage you to invite her to shoot both and decide for herself.


Oh, I'm pretty sure she'll get what she wants. Both are good quality handguns.

Coronach
June 10, 2007, 04:24 PM
interesting you mentioend that, my XD40 jams a lot with that ammo.It's the bullet profile. It has to be. You can hear and feel the difference in the gun going into battery (when it does) between the FMJTC and every other type of ammo I have fired. Instead of the single CLACK you get from the slide cycling, with the FMJTC you get a KA-CLACK sound, and you can feel the hesitation as the cartridge rides forward, hits the feed ramp and then (hopefully) negotiates the turn into the chamber. Most FTFs from this ammo can be resolved by tapping the back of the slide with the palm of the support hand, as once the cartridge gets re-oriented, the recoil spring will push the slide into battery.

It's infuriating, especially since I have about 300 rounds of it left. ;) It's not a total loss, though, since the ammo is perfectly good for accuracy work (single shots) and malfunction drills ( ;) ), and the brass is good brass. Still, I won't buy Fiocchi again unless I can verify that it is not Truncated Cone.

Mike

rugerfreak
June 10, 2007, 04:28 PM
Just 200 rounds through my full sized MP9---using 5 different magazines and 115gn WWB---No Issues At ALL.

axeman_g
June 10, 2007, 04:38 PM
435 rds through my M&P 9mm fullsize and not one hiccup.
My issue seems to be POI ir 2 inches low at 10yds! I am going to insert the slightly uncomfortable (to me) large palm swell and see if the raises the POI.

I am used to aiming front sight under target with ALL my other handguns. Maybe this one needs to be covered, which I am not comfortable with.

I am going to try a heavier rds next time out also. All 435 rds have been 115gr ball ammo.

gudel
June 10, 2007, 04:44 PM
yeah the fiocchi 170gr has an odd shape bullet. but it's still a good ammo. fiocchi seems to fire hotter than the rest.

rbernie
June 10, 2007, 06:16 PM
It's the sharp shoulder on the nose - my M&Ps don't like the Ranier TC shape any better. A little more radius and they feed just fine.

I have about 3000 rounds thru my M&P 9mm range gun so far, and dispite minimal maintenance (quick wipe down, basically) every thousand rounds or so it's never once failed me in any way. I shoot Blazer (aluminum) throught it almost exclusively.

Coronach
June 10, 2007, 08:15 PM
my M&Ps don't like the Ranier TC shape any better.Concur. I think this is an important point to make known to buyers of the gun, and to people who get the gun and buy large lots of ammo.

Personally, I don't think it is a horrible failing. I know now that the gun won't run with TC ammo. So, I won't buy TC ammo. Problem solved. I suppose if TEOTWAWKI happens and TSHTF when I'm stranded with my M&P in a warehouse full of TC ammo with marauding brain-eating zombies outside, I might regret my cavalier attitude. ;)

Mike

zahc
June 10, 2007, 08:36 PM
I have probably 500 rounds through my 9c with no malfunctions and no attention paid to cleaning. This is about 80% WWB and the balance WWB JHP.

The gun seems a bit reluctant to strip the first round from the magazine. It kind of goes foreward a bit, pauses, making you think it's going to stop but then it always chambers the round.

beagler
June 10, 2007, 11:13 PM
Great reports! I too have the mp40 full size. I only have 30 rounds through it as of today, but that will change tomorrow. My first impressions are: sweet pistol, 100% reliable so far, very manageable in the hands.

Red_Dog_Leader
June 11, 2007, 10:47 PM
M&P 9MM...
WWB 115G: 400 rds.
Absolutely 0 problems.
Really enjoy shooting this pistol.
:)

threadbare
June 12, 2007, 05:47 AM
Fullsize M&P 9---1500 rounds of Remington UMC 115 gr. FMJ-0 failures
60 rounds Federal Hydrashok-0 failures
150 rounds WWB 115 gr FMJ-0 failures

Compact M&P 9-750 rounds Rem. UMC 115 gr. FMJ-0 failures
100 rounds Independance 115 gr. FMJ-0 failures
20 rounds Wolf 115 gr FMJ-0 failures
20 rounds Speer Gold Dot-0 failures

SWMP40
June 12, 2007, 11:44 AM
1225 rounds in my MP 40
with no FTF mostly Blazen Brass:)

HeedJSU
June 13, 2007, 11:38 AM
Other than the finally corrected (I hope) mag drop issue, I've had 1100 rounds failure free from my M&P 40c. 600 WWB, one 50 count of blazer brass, 400 R-P, and 50 "other" rounds. (Federal HST, EFMJ)

Justin

Coronach
June 13, 2007, 12:09 PM
Mag drop issue...they replaced the mag release? That issue is a real glitch with the compacts (mine does not seem to suffer from it), but it's a simple fix.

Mike

HeedJSU
June 13, 2007, 12:12 PM
I'm not LEO, but I had a hour long range session with one of the LEO reps yesterday who replaced my catch (the second time) with the newly redesigned piece. It fits A LOT more snugly than the old release. We ran through 400 rounds on S&W's dime to make sure it was working. (my others showed issue at 200 rounds) He also pulled out two of the M&P-15's and one of the 45's and let me burn some ammo through those too. Superb human being.

Justin

texagun
June 14, 2007, 02:27 PM
Not only are they reliable and accurate....they are beautiful too!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/w5lx/MP40andHolster.jpg

MikePGS
June 16, 2007, 08:51 PM
Nice thread. I'm actually contemplating getting a glock 23 (as well as like fifty million other guns :Grumbles:) but every review i've read about the M&P 40 seems encouraging. Not only that but the price is significantly less (on buds gun shop at least) so heres my question(s). Is it small enough to be concealed? I know that any gun could theoretically be concealed, but is there anything in particular thats especially bulky about this particular gun that might make using it as a CCW piece a bad idea? Also how supported is the barrel? Do they particularly mention +P ammo in the owners manual or do they avoid the topic entirely? Thanks in advance.

Coronach
June 16, 2007, 09:35 PM
1. Dunno about specific mentions of +P ammo in the manual, but I assure you, it is ok to shoot.

2. AFAIK the chamber is fully supported. I've noted no bulges in the cases like I have with my Glock 20.

3. CCWing with a fullsize would be harder than a compact, but it's not bad. The only dimensions that change between M&P Fullsize and M&P Compact are the barrel length, the grip length, and the beavertail (eliminated on the compact). I'm reasonably slender, so the fullsize gun does not quite disappear under an untucked shirt, but it is not hard at all to conceal if you wear an unbuttoned shirt over a T, or a jacket.

Mike

HeedJSU
June 17, 2007, 12:30 AM
IIRC, +p is ok via the manual, but +p+ is to be avoided.
And like coronach said, I believe the chamber is fully supported. you can't see any space like you can with a glock barrel, and I've noticed no swelling with hot loads and 180 grainers. My compact 40 conceals well, but i wouldn't want to carry anything larger.


Justin

SBD
June 17, 2007, 11:57 AM
Question for Mike or anyone else--

I've fired a few hundred rounds through the M&P 40c, 9c, and 40 full-sized and really like the gun. Because of this, I'm thinking about buying one. I found an online seller who has some that are not equipped have mag safeties, and these guns are quite a bit cheaper than those M&Ps the seller has that do have mag safeties.

Is there any reason you can think of to warrant paying the extra $100 for an M&P that does have a mag safety (the gun will sometimes be used as a CCW)?

Coronach
June 17, 2007, 02:32 PM
That's a Ford v. Chevy question if ever there was one. My gut response is "$100? Heck no!", but I'm completely ambivalent about the mag safety issue. Add in a C-note and I'm sold on not having one. ;)

I bet you that the PDs in the area that approve the M&P require mag safeties, and so this dealer has a bunch in stock that officers cannot use as their OD/BUGs, and so he is willing to make deal to move inventory.

Some people strongly prefer no mag safety, and are willing to pay more for that configuration. One otherthing you need to ask (both yourself and the dealer) is about the dreaded Lock. Do the guns have them, and are you willing to carry a gun with The Lock? (For $100? I would...I see The Lock as non-issue mechanically, and only an annoyance if it is forced upon you without a choice)

Mike

KimberTLE.45
June 17, 2007, 05:59 PM
I have been trying to decide between this gun in 9MM or .40 and an XD in the same caliber... What do you guys think? They both fit my hand really well but I am yet to shoot either...

revolverman357
June 17, 2007, 06:52 PM
My M&P9 full size will not run Winchester white box at all. Always fails to extract 3 times per magazine. S&B, Remington UMC, and my own handloads run just fine. Don't know what is wrong with the combination of this gun and WWB.
The gun has 700 rounds through it.
200 WWB
500 Rem, S&B, Handloads

Coronach
June 18, 2007, 12:10 AM
Failures to extract? THAT's a new one.

Mike

sm
June 18, 2007, 12:49 AM
Don't know what is wrong with the combination of this gun and WWB.

I don't think it is the gun.

1. Can you measure these WWB?
2. Where did you buy these WWB?

axeman_g
June 18, 2007, 09:35 AM
I have an update on my M&P9.

I had a trigger job done by my trusted smith this past week. It really reduced the creep, staging and roughness of the OEM trigger. Poundage is spot on 4# by the smiths scale, the reset is minimal now. A very nice trigger.

I went to range and ran 200 rds of Fiocchi 115g through it. The accuracy was GREATLY helped my the trigger job. I was able to actually hit paper and some bulls at 25 yds now. All shots were on target and 25% were within the 8 ring. Yes, I am not a good shot. The really excellent side effect was that the gun was shooting low before as I was probably crunching the trigger to much and pushing the front sight down. The gun no longer shoots low as the trigger release is very crisp.

Now here is the issue.... I had 5 FTF.... primers were struck hard, it's look as if the rounds were going to be duds, but once reinserteded in the mag all rounds fired. I have heard that Fiocchi ammo uses a really hard primer... does anyone know if that is true?

Coronach
June 19, 2007, 01:30 AM
I've heard that as well, and I've had some hard primers (or light primer strikes, it's hard to say), with Fiocchi.

Mike

Bulldog
June 19, 2007, 01:52 AM
Anyone wanna pull their mag release and snap a pic? I'm curious to see if anyone's experiencing abnormal wear.

Here's mine:

http://www.jdlawhon.com/handguns/swmpmagcatch.jpg

Other than that, I love the gun. 786rds and no problems, so far. I'm just waiting for my mag to start dropping.

http://www.jdlawhon.com/handguns/swmp02m.jpg

Coronach
June 19, 2007, 07:53 AM
Hopefully you'll be waiting a while. I've heard of compacts having that problem, not fullsize models. An easy fix, but annoying.

Mike

Docgmt
June 19, 2007, 03:54 PM
I have fired 350 rounds with no misfires using mostly Winchester 185Gr ( Cheap ) also a mix of Rangers 165Gr and Hydroshock 135Gr. The only issue has been three no fires because the magazine was not releasing the safety, although it was locked in, it took a smack to the bottom of the magazine to get the safety to disengage. This happen with both of the factory mags that came with the pistol. All of this with the first 150 rounds and has not occurred with the three new magazines purchase after I bought the pistol.

Coronach
June 19, 2007, 11:34 PM
Hmm! THAT is a concern. The magazine disconnect was not disengaging with a fully inserted magazine? If you look at how the disconnect works, there is pretty much no way to have a magazine inserted fully and have the disconnect not be disengaged, assuming that the disconnect is working properly. That might sound obvious and/or redundant, but what I'm saying is that it should not be a magazine issue. New mag, old mag, OEM mag, aftermarket mag, none of that should matter.

I would keep an eye on it, at the very least. I would also consider calling S&W and see what they say.

Mike

moxie
July 9, 2007, 12:50 PM
Interesting thread. Just came across it. You and others have confirmed, again, that Fiocchi is either crummy or worst or quirky at best. I wouldn't count its failures against the gun's reliability. Interesting that Blazer brass gave some trouble. Usually it's the aluminum cases that some guns don't like. And the thread has generated some WWB negativity too. That's par.

Coronach
July 9, 2007, 12:56 PM
If you're looking at my malfunctions, they were with aluminum-cased Blazer. The Blazer Brass has been flawless.

Fiocchi is iffy, but it is range ammo, so I don't mind too much, except for that stupid FMJTC. That was annoying, especially when I had several hundred rounds of it, and no other guns in .40 S&W. :uhoh:

Mike

moxie
July 10, 2007, 08:30 AM
Confused! That was another guy's.

loloy
July 31, 2007, 09:23 AM
After an extensive review of pros and cons from different forums and threads finally M&P 9mm is my first and handgun of choice. Hopefully it will arrive tomorrow after almost 2 weeks of waiting time.
I just want to know specially from your extensive first hand experience if this firearm can withstand reloads. in my place imported cartridges like remington and winchester are almost 10x more costly than reloads offered by my dealer. Obviously, high end costly ammo is a limiting factor as far as target shooting is concerned although i put premium to its cost efficiency without compromising the longevity of my firearm.
what are other particular measures that must be considered regarding the use of reloads?

loloy
August 1, 2007, 05:41 AM
have you heard of any handgun enthusiasts suffering from pb poisoning secondary to exposure to fume inhalation?
:rolleyes:

gtmtnbiker98
August 1, 2007, 08:14 AM
My M&P9 round count:

140 WWB = 3 failures to extract
100 American Eagle = 0 issues
150 Black Hills +P = 0 issues
100 Blazer Brass = 0 issues

490 total rounds with 3 failures to extract. My pistol does not like WWB. I will no longer be purchasing WWB for my M&Ps. As for my M&P40, haven't shot it yet, it's still NIB - just purchased on Monday.

Coronach
August 1, 2007, 12:48 PM
Interestingly enough, I just experienced two failures to extract with Ultramax ammo in my 40c. I'm not sure if it was the gun, the ammo, or the fact that I was working on rebuilding my shooting grip on both of them (I finally have a duty gun that I can shoot straight-thumbs).

I'll most certainly be keeping an eye on that.

Mike

Anna's Dad
August 1, 2007, 01:18 PM
I have about 300 rounds of Blazer Brass through mine without a hiccup.

d_vman
August 1, 2007, 03:27 PM
Hello All,

I just picked up an M&P a few weeks ago. I really like the gun so far, but have run across a few issues some of you may be able to help me with.

(now keep in mind that I am realatively new to pistol shooting, so if these are stupid questions it's cause I am a 'noob' as they say)

First off, is is normal that certain types of ammo fail to lock the slide back when the mag is empty? I have the same problem with my Para 1911. In either gun the heavier 'ball' ammunition locks the slide back, but when I use a lighter ammo, especially with a flat nose, the slide fails to lock back about half the time.

Secondly, when the slide is locked back, inserting a new mag in one smooth motion tends to unlock the slide. On my 1911 I am used to inserting a new mag and having to hit the mag release. I am not slamming the mag home with my palm, like I said, it's just a smooth motion. If I insert slower it stays locked back. Someting I am doign wrong? Something I should have looked at? As long as my finger stays off the trigger this won't result in 'slamfire' will it? (Yeah, I've heard that thrown around, don't know if it has any merit.)

Thanks for your time!

Regards
Derek

(p.s. with reference to the 'roundcount and notes' theme. At least 500 rounds so far, and the slide not locking back is the only problem I have had. Seem realatively minor. It has never failed to fire / feed / eject)

d_vman
August 1, 2007, 03:34 PM
Oh, and Texagun... what kind of holster is that? Looks great!

Regards
Derek

Falcon
August 10, 2007, 10:05 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a 99.75% ratio equate to a 3 sigma quality standard? At that rate there'd be roughly a 2,700 ppm failure rate.

Just to put it into perspective,consider what 3 sigma quality would mean if applied to other processes:

Virtually no modern computer would function.
10,800,000 healthcare claims would be mishandled each year.
18,900 US Savings bonds would be lost every month.
54,000 checks would be lost each night by a single large bank.
4,050 invoices would be sent out incorrectly each month by a modest-sized telecommunications company.
540,000 erroneous call details would be recorded each day from a regional telecommunications company.
270,000,000 (270 million) erroneous credit card transactions would be recorded each year in the United States.

Kind of astounding when you look at it this way.

texagun
August 11, 2007, 08:20 AM
"Oh, and Texagun... what kind of holster is that? Looks great!"
Regards
Derek


It is a Don Hume IWB Holster.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/w5lx/IMG_0328.jpg


"I just picked up an M&P a few weeks ago. I really like the gun so far, but have run across a few issues some of you may be able to help me with.

(now keep in mind that I am realatively new to pistol shooting, so if these are stupid questions it's cause I am a 'noob' as they say)

First off, is is normal that certain types of ammo fail to lock the slide back when the mag is empty? I have the same problem with my Para 1911. In either gun the heavier 'ball' ammunition locks the slide back, but when I use a lighter ammo, especially with a flat nose, the slide fails to lock back about half the time.

Secondly, when the slide is locked back, inserting a new mag in one smooth motion tends to unlock the slide. On my 1911 I am used to inserting a new mag and having to hit the mag release. I am not slamming the mag home with my palm, like I said, it's just a smooth motion. If I insert slower it stays locked back. Someting I am doign wrong? Something I should have looked at? As long as my finger stays off the trigger this won't result in 'slamfire' will it? (Yeah, I've heard that thrown around, don't know if it has any merit.)

Thanks for your time!

Regards
Derek"

Derek:
I think your gun is operating normally. My slide always locks back after the last round, but I don't use "light" loads in it. I use WWB for practice and they lock the slide back just fine. Also it is normal for the slide to close when forcefully inserting a loaded magazine. If you "ease" it in, it won't and you will have to use the slide release. There's lots of information on these guns on www.mp-pistol.com.
Texagun

saltydog452
August 11, 2007, 02:53 PM
michael,

of your two m and p smiths, which do you prefer for daily cary?

for off duty, what holster options 'work' for you?

for the moment disregard the fact that it is your issue pistol, how does it compare with other platforms.., dak, da/sa, sa only, sig, h and k, 11a1, etc.?

i guess what i am actually asking is, if you did not have to use it, would you choose it?... to the exclusion of other choices? and how would you tote it around?

thanks,

salty, one hand typist for 6 more weeks.

Coronach
August 21, 2007, 11:49 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a 99.75% ratio equate to a 3 sigma quality standard? At that rate there'd be roughly a 2,700 ppm failure rate.You're probably correct. The question becomes what is an acceptable failure rate for a pistol, and how many pistols can make that rate?

I've had a couple of guns that have been pretty much flawless. Most will choke every now and then. This is why we do malfunction drills. Also, I consider my M&P fullsize to be reliable, but I'm worried about the Compact. The malfunction rates are, on paper, pretty similar (look at the first post to see the current standings). I'll note that almost all of the fullsize's failures happened very early, and the gun has been running like a top since. The Compact is good for one error per outing. That's disconcerting.

Still, neither one of them have choked once with duty ammo. I just hope that's not a product of the low number of rounds I've been able to run through them of that type.

Coronach
August 21, 2007, 11:55 PM
of your two m and p smiths, which do you prefer for daily cary?I want to like the compact better for CCW, but I cannot shoot it as well (this is probably a function of the disparate trigger time with each more than anything else), and the reliability issue is niggling.for off duty, what holster options 'work' for you?I run a Comp-Tac Infidel, and like it pretty well.for the moment disregard the fact that it is your issue pistol, how does it compare with other platforms.., dak, da/sa, sa only, sig, h and k, 11a1, etc.?It feels GREAT in the hand. the trigger is good, but not as good as a 1911 or BHP SA trigger. If i had my druthers, I'd pack my BHP. I don't have my druthers. ;)i guess what i am actually asking is, if you did not have to use it, would you choose it?... to the exclusion of other choices? and how would you tote it around?No, I would not choose it, but that's only because I'm about 15 years into a life long love afair with the BHP. If I was looking for a non-SA pistol, yes, I would probably select the M&P. However, my preference is for SA carried in condition 1.

Mike

saltydog452
August 22, 2007, 09:47 AM
Thanks.

salty.

gtmtnbiker98
August 22, 2007, 11:08 AM
My round count update:

M&P 9: 555 rounds = 3 FTExtracts (during first 140) no failures since
M&P 40: 200 rounds = flawless performance

My three FTExtracts on the 9 occurred during the first outing and was shooting WWB. I have since shot WWB without issue; however, I have only shot a magazine full. I've been shooting American Eagle, Remington Green Box, and Black Hills in 9mm. I consider the pistol broke in now and will try WWB again as a primary diet - contributing my first 3 issues to be a combination of weak (cheap) ammo and new gun break-in. My M&P .40 has performed flawless out of the box.

airwrench
August 22, 2007, 07:49 PM
It seems I made the right choice with my m&p .40. I have owned mine now for 6 months. I stopped counting how many rounds I have shot through it. Several thousand by now. I have been using it for steel matches as well as ipsc competition. I shoot mostly loaded down ammo and the gun has only failed me 3 times. Let me restate that. My ammo has failed me 3 times. I have had no federal or remington factory ammo gun failures. The 3 reload failures was my reloading not the gun. I plan to buy the dark earth .45 and I am hoping for a tactical model of the 9mm.

Coronach
August 22, 2007, 08:05 PM
...you know what? My only failures to extract have been with Ultramax. It is a remanufactured ammo, and I know some of the brass is Winchester.

I see an experiment coming on.

Mike

Black Adder LXX
August 23, 2007, 07:19 PM
My M&P 9c is at 800 rounds without a single problem. I LOVE THIS GUN!

Matt King
August 23, 2007, 08:34 PM
Coronach:

How easy is it to conceal the full size M&P?

Coronach
August 23, 2007, 08:52 PM
It's not bad, if you wear loose clothing. When I vidited Dan Burwell's shop, he was CCWing a fullsize the whole time and I never noticed until he pulled it out. That's me, trained observer. ;)

The compact is the exact same as the fullsize, with the following differences:

1. slightly shorter barrel. 3/4", maybe?

2. no beavertail.

3. Shorter grip (1", I think, but some of that is "lost" if you use the extended grip on the compact magazine).

I find that carrying the fullsize IWB is a PITA due to the beavertail. It keeps poking my food blister :uhoh:

Mike ;)

Black Adder LXX
September 14, 2007, 08:10 PM
Can I join in?

I've got a M&P 9c.

I've put 1000 rounds through to date with 0 problems. I bumped the mag release on accident once when I was getting used to the grip, but have had no problems other than operator error.

The ammo has been:
115g WWB - 900 rounds
Magtech (not sure of weight) 100 rounds

It took a few hundred rounds to get used the short sight radius, but I'm starting to get pretty accurate with it. Trigger is smoothing out. I LOVE THIS GUN! I just got a Don Hume IWB (Made for the Glock) and it fits great. I'm going to start carrying now that I have a holster and 1000 rounds of confidence.

Did I mention that I LOVE THIS GUN?

gc70
October 21, 2007, 08:40 PM
Coronach:

My son has a M&P40 - 2,450 rounds - flawless.

littlegator
October 21, 2007, 08:55 PM
M&P 9

1850 rnds WWB 115 gr
20 rnds Corbon +p 115 gr
20 rnds Federal Hydra-Shok 124 gr
50 rnds Blazer 147 gr

Malfunctions - 0
Reliability - 100%
Issues - Corbon snags sometimes on feed ramp on 1st round - sounds similar to zahc's post #25. If I rack it more firmly, though, it seems to do fine.
- I have to wipe the slide down with a treated rag after every range session or it rusts easily.
- Slide gets pretty hot with 200+ rounds in one session
- When hand sweats after shooting awhile, grip becomes uncomfortable and does not provide good control\
- Ejected brass sometimes fly straight up and back, hitting me on the noodle

kd7nqb
October 22, 2007, 03:14 AM
IN MY M&P.40 FULL SIZE

150-Rounds of Magtech

50rounds WWB-

50 rounds- Remington UMC -

50 rounds- American Eagle-

10rounds CCI Shotshells- Does not cycle action

I am sorry that I did not post bullet weights I will edit in the AM (boxes are not near me at the moment) so far I have had 0 malfunctions other than the CCI shells not having enough "oomph" to cycle the slide. I dont blame that on the gun.

Docgmt
October 22, 2007, 04:06 PM
Just went through 500 rounds of Remington this weekend no failures. Did have 4 rounds of Remington .223 that were bad crimps, one without powder in it.:fire: Gone through 9000 of WWB and 100 of Federal Hydroshock another 100 of mixed ammo no problem.:D Also no rust so far, I do wipe it down after each time its used.

TimboKhan
October 22, 2007, 06:35 PM
Just to put it into perspective,consider what 3 sigma quality would mean if applied to other processes:

Virtually no modern computer would function.
10,800,000 healthcare claims would be mishandled each year.
18,900 US Savings bonds would be lost every month.
54,000 checks would be lost each night by a single large bank.
4,050 invoices would be sent out incorrectly each month by a modest-sized telecommunications company.
540,000 erroneous call details would be recorded each day from a regional telecommunications company.
270,000,000 (270 million) erroneous credit card transactions would be recorded each year in the United States

Not really that astounding when you consider the numbers involved. Rounding your healthcare stat up to 11,000,000 means that 99 million claims still go through without a hitch. For the credit card transaction rate, 26 BILLION charges would still be correct. It interesting to look at, but when placed in proper perspective, not that big of a deal.

Nematocyst
February 15, 2008, 06:43 AM
<Subscribed>

How did I miss this thread until now?
(Rhetorical question.)

I've got some reading to do.

Nem

PS: Yes, I fully admit that the MP
I'm interested in is a revolver, MP340,
which helps explain why I missed this thread until now.

Hypothesis: it doesn't matter that much. MP => higher quality.

thegooch
March 29, 2008, 10:54 PM
Why not I'll join in as well

S&W 9c

1100 total rounds fire 0 problems

80% WWB
5% Wolf
5% Georgia Arms
10% Federal +P+ JHP

41 magnum fan
March 30, 2008, 10:53 AM
I have three M&P pistols a M&P45,M&P9 and a M&P9c.All three have been reliable andaccurate. The M&P 45 has only been shot with 200 grain lswc and 230 lrn reloads,georgia arms 230 fmj and 230 grain gold dots.The 45 occasionally has a failure to feed with the 200 grain lswc.Has been 100% reliable with everything else.I have approximately 3000 rounds through this gun.

The M&P9 fullsize has been great too.I have close to 5000 roundsthrough this gun.Ammo used is mostly reloads with 125 grain lrn,125 plated rn,147 grain ltc,and 147 grain plated rnfp.Factory ammo has been Georgia Arms 115 fmj,Remington115 fmj,Fed 124 +p hst,Fed 147 HST,Speer 147 gold dot,Win 115fmj and 147 jhp and Federal 115 jhp and Remington 124 grain golden saber.I have had 1 failure to fire with georgia arms ammo,but fired on second try.The gun had 3 failure to feed with 147 plated reloads.Also had one failure to eject with 125 grain lrn reloads.


The M&P 9 compact has fired 2500 rounds of the same ammo used in the fullsize 9.The compact has had 4failures to eject with 125 lrn reloads,4 failure to fire with georgia arms ammo.Alsohave had 2 failure to feed with winchester 147 jhp and 2 failure to feed with 147 plated reloads.

Overall these guns have been very reliable and are a joy to shoot.I hated polymer guns until I shot the S&W M&P.Plan on adding a compact 45 when it becomes available.

Odd Job
January 10, 2009, 07:13 AM
Coronach can I see pictures of two Fiocchi cartridges side by side (the truncated jammer and the flatnose)?

jon_in_wv
January 10, 2009, 08:50 AM
Personally, I don't think it is a horrible failing. I know now that the gun won't run with TC ammo. So, I won't buy TC ammo. Problem solved. I suppose if TEOTWAWKI happens and TSHTF when I'm stranded with my M&P in a warehouse full of TC ammo with marauding brain-eating zombies outside, I might regret my cavalier attitude.

That cracked me up.

I have two M&Ps. I've fired several several thousand rounds with my M&P 9c and the only issue I've had is occasionally the slide will lock back with one round still in the magazine. I've also had ONE FTE. Just one while I was shooting off a sand bag rest. I suspect it was the ammo as it never happened again.

possum
January 10, 2009, 12:38 PM
thanks for sharing, that is odd, i am suprised that you have had that many malfunctions. especially in that low of a round count. i have heard great things about them up intil this point. i am also suprised that you have had trouble with the wolf ammo. i have never had an issue with wolf handgun ammo.

maybe you should sell them and go another hi cap polymer gun route. I would reccomend the xd line first and foremost, and there is always the glock's which are many out there to choose form, my favorite being the model 19.

fastbolt
January 10, 2009, 08:37 PM
I've passed the 2,200+ round mark in my M&P 45 full-size model.

All but about 100 rounds of it has been a mix of 3 different duty-type defensive loads of 230gr bullet weight, with the 100-odd rounds being some FMJ I had at hand.

Fine feeding & functioning. Capable of surprisingly good accuracy.

I long ago stopped buying reloaded/remanufactured ammunition.

I haven't reloaded in many years.

I stopped using anything loaded by most other folks, too. ;)

I pretty much limit my ammunition choices to offerings from the major American manufacturers. There are some exceptions for 9mm ammunition.

I prefer as close to monotonous and boring as possible when it comes to functioning, and exercising some care when choosing ammunition can help in that regard.

Factory ammunition may not be perfect, but I have to look back at many ten's of thousands of rounds in order to remember the occasional problem with a factory round made by one of the major companies.

wofat226
January 15, 2009, 01:00 AM
my M&Pc also chambers 1st round very slow but then gose into battery. maybe weak recoil springs?

vetts1911
January 15, 2009, 07:47 AM
My M&P 9mm would not run on reloads and had a FTE of 1 to 2 out of a 100Win White Box. All the people I shot around recomended to to use Remington Green box ammo. I have had this pistol just shy of two years now. I guess it broke in at around 500 round mark and eats reloads and any other kind of ammo I feed it now. In July I sent it too Dan Burwell for a trigger and sight job. Now it is the best shooting and my favorite double action 9mm I own. I think Smith did it right and they have the market back with this one.

jocko
January 15, 2009, 08:07 AM
I have about 2500 + rounds out of my M & P that David Bowie of Bowie tactical reworked for me. have not had one malfunction since I fgot it. I primarly shoot 100 pak of wal-mart winchester ammo. this gun is drop dead accurate. Bowie can make um dance that is for sure...It had a terrible trigger out of the box but next to my customized G19, it is just a super accurate handgun and it goes bang every time to.

Paul Calligaro
January 24, 2009, 02:13 AM
My M&P 9c was one of the first to be produced. After about 500 rounds I started to have the mag release when firing. I was shooting all +P ammo. I have a large hand and it occured with all four of my mags but more frequently with the ones with the finger rest
After replacing the mag catch twice the problem continued. I sent it back to Smith and they sent me a new gun. I have over 2000 rounds through the new one and no problems. I do not shoot +P with the finger rest mag but do
use it with the other mags.

The second gun is wonderful. For a small gun it shoots great. It is my carry gun and and am sure it will serve me well if I need it.

Smith and Wesson stands by their guns and give fantastic customer service. I am so happy with my new M&P 9c and the way Smith and Wesson handled my problem I just ordered a Model 41.

billy396
January 26, 2009, 12:07 PM
I originally bought a full-size M&P .40 when they first came out. I liked it so much I decided to get one of each model ASAP. I did so and I haven't really had any problems to speak of. I had a trigger job and a 11 degree target crown put on the full-size 9MM. It was already very accurate, now it's a tack driver and very easy to shoot accurately.
The only one that I didn't really care for was the .45. I had a Desert Tan .45 with safeties, and it just didn't really turn me on. I didn't have any trouble with it, I just didn't enjoy shooting it like I do the other M&P's. (I'm spoiled on my 1911's)
The .40C has been unbelievable. I've put every kind of reload in 155, 165, and 180 Gr., Ranger, Hydra-Shok, Powr-Ball and +P whatever I had through it, and the thing just keeps shooting. The
9C surprised me at how well it shoots as I had lower expectations, but it's great also. I've never tried any Fiocchi ammo, and now I won't bother with it if I run across any. To sum up, I'd be hard pressed to choose between the M&Ps and the Glocks, I love them both. I also love my SIG's, but I have never had an HK that I liked, and I've had a couple, .40 and .45, compact and full-size USP. I do think it may be possible that the Glock would endure more abuse before any failures, but that's only because I've seen and read about so many Glock torture tests. I'm still waiting for the M&P torture tests to make that distinction.
All in all, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an M&P to anyone. I love 'em.

destrux
February 9, 2009, 08:57 PM
Drat. I just got 2 boxes of Speer Lawman 180gr FMJTC... and one box of Fiocchi FMJTC. I also just ordered a 170gr TC die to cast bullets for this gun. Guess I should have read up on this one before I went out and bought all this stuff.

Quoheleth
February 9, 2009, 10:35 PM
I'll add a quick report on my MP9...

I ordered my MP from Buds just after Christmas, 2007. Since then I've probably run 1000 (+/-) rounds through the gun without a hiccup. Not a single failure of any kind. I've only run 115gr factory, and then 115 jacketed and 125 LRN reloads through the gun - none of the heavier bullets. Of the 1000 rounds, about half was factory and half has been reloads. Most reloads have been mild target loads, but I did run up a batch on the high end of recommended charges. No problems, whatsoever.

FWIW, I have small hands. When I started shooting the MP, I thought the small grip was the way to go. I've since switched to the large grips and have gained much better control. The thicker, large grip fills the palm of my hand, giving me more surface contact. It's made a difference...

I am taking my Texas CHL class on Saturday. I have 110% confidence in the MP, and I'll be shooting it for qual.

Q

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