Proof that societies are different


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sacp81170a
June 8, 2007, 11:05 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070607/hl_nm/japan_suicides_dc

Japan suicides top 30,000 for ninth straight year

By Elaine Lies
Thu Jun 7, 4:37 AM ET

TOKYO (Reuters) - The number of Japanese who killed themselves edged down last year but stayed above 30,000 as it has for nearly a decade, with suicides among the elderly rising to account for more than a third of the total, police said on Thursday.

The issue was grimly highlighted last Monday when scandal-tainted Agriculture Minister Toshikatsu Matsuoka hanged himself.

According to statistics compiled by the National Police Agency, 32,155 people took their own lives in 2006, down from 32,552 the previous year but still the ninth straight year above 30,000. The record high was 34,427 in 2003.

My comment:

Just another tragic statistic to illustrate that due to cultural differences, a direct comparison of murder and suicide rates among countries, even industrialized countries, is a non sequitur in the debate over the right to defend oneself.

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Mumwaldee
June 8, 2007, 11:12 AM
I guess giving up all that freedom for security isn't the paradise they'd like us to believe.

BTW: While I was living in Japan I heard about several "jumper" type suicides, but they were never in the paper or on the TV news.

araiford
June 8, 2007, 12:03 PM
Hey, I guess as long as they don't off themselves with a gun, it must be OK.
Right?

glummer
June 8, 2007, 12:35 PM
Hey, I guess as long as they don't off themselves with a gun, it must be OK.
Right?
Right. If it's not a "firearms death", it doesn't count.

fletcher
June 8, 2007, 02:22 PM
I read the US had ~31k a year or two ago, to illustrate the difference.

Double Naught Spy
June 8, 2007, 03:06 PM
Proof that societies are different

Was somebody confused about Japanese and US societies being the same?

Just another tragic statistic to illustrate that due to cultural differences, a direct comparison of murder and suicide rates among countries, even industrialized countries, is a non sequitur in the debate over the right to defend oneself.

I must have missed the segue somewhere. What is it about an article on suicide in Japan that is proving a point about self defense?

sacp81170a
June 8, 2007, 03:19 PM
Was somebody confused about Japanese and US societies being the same?

Nope. Well, except for the antis that always seem to gloss over little details like this when comparing firearms death rates between the two countries.


I must have missed the segue somewhere. What is it about an article on suicide in Japan that is proving a point about self defense?

The specific relationship I'm alluding to relates to the anti-gun argument that easy availability of guns has a positive correlation with suicide rates, especially among teens and the elderly. This article mentions those two groups specifically as having higher rates than others within a society where the possession of firearms is severely restricted yet the overall suicide rate is far higher than in our own society. By their comments, I see that others got the point: it's the action itself and not the tool that matters.

The next time you hear an anti-gunner breathlessly spewing how a suicide could have been prevented "if only guns weren't so easily available", you'll have an example to counter them with.

Art Eatman
June 8, 2007, 03:36 PM
It is common for those railing against private ownership of firearms to include suicides in with homicides. CDC numbers indicate that firearns-suicides are about half of the total number of firearms related deaths. Further, the claim is often made that the U.S. would have fewer suicides if guns were not "readily available".

Japan has strict gun laws, and about one-half the population of the U.S. They have roughly double the suicide rate. The numbers show that the absence of firearms has nothing to do with suicide.

The bottom line is that laws which restrict firearms don't affect suicide rates, as claimed in the antis' arguments.

Art

benEzra
June 8, 2007, 09:20 PM
The suicide rate in Japan is 35.2/100K, compared to 17.6/100K in the United States (e.g., Japan has twice the suicide rate of the U.S.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

REJones
June 8, 2007, 09:33 PM
In Japan, suicide does not have the negative connotations it does in the U.S. Historically, ritual suicide was a way to regain honor that had been lost through a person's bad actions. Recall also that in WWII, Japanese troops often preferred suicide to capture - something US troops wouldn't consider. The concept of suicide as a sin against god is foreign to Japanese culture, though no doubt Japanese Christians have probably picked up on the belief.

another okie
June 9, 2007, 04:56 PM
Speaking of cultural differences, I recently discovered (don't ask how) that the Yizdi Kurds find it religiously offensive to wash with water. Of course, so did some of my friends in Arkansas as a child.

sacp81170a
June 9, 2007, 07:30 PM
the Yizdi Kurds find it religiously offensive to wash with water. Of course, so did some of my friends in Arkansas as a child.

No, no, you've got it all wrong... it's not religiously offensive, just ask any Baptist. I take a bath at least once a week whether I need one or not. :D

It's wearing shoes that we find religiously offensive... :neener:

BTW, if a man and a woman in Oklahoma get a divorce, are they still cousins? :p

another okie
June 9, 2007, 08:34 PM
Actually it's illegal for first cousins to marry in Oklahoma, but it's perfectly legal in Arkansas.

A better joke on Oklahoma: If you don't mind flying out of an airport named after a guy who died in a plane crash, you might be from Oklahoma.

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