Thinking of getting into trap and/or skeet!

[Zeede]

Hey folks! I've shot rifles before (.22 LR) and own a fabulous CZ 452 FS. I've been thinking of getting into trap and/or skeet, as there is a nice outdoor range very close to my house. Now I know about the "Big Four", Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Mossberg 500, and Winchester 1300. It's funny, since I went to school in Ithaca and had no idea about the gun company.

I went to a local store to shoulder a few shotguns (I really liked a Browning BPS, the sights were very nice), so I was hoping for some help in choosing my first shotgun! Here are the parameters:

1) Price. Under $600, preferably under $400.
2) Pump action. Always wanted one, the click-clack is just too cool, plus the side-by-side and over-unders I like cost way too much.
3) Reliability.
4) Something different. This is why I went with the CZ instead of the mega-popular Ruger 10/22.
5) Preferably an American company.

Thanks!

Cameron

P.S. I live in the heart of Los Angeles, so I doubt I'll do any hunting, and I hope I never have to use it for home defense, so obviously the gun will be geared for trap/skeet, and have a long barrel.

[Avenger29]

Then I'd go with the BPS. Especially since you liked it.

Of course, for an American company, then you don't have that option, as Brownings are mostly manufactered in Japan. Still good guns. If you really liked it, I'd go with it.

And did you look at the Ithaca 37's? I think they are still made.

[Milkmaster]

Trap and skeet have become my favorite hobbies this year. The more you learn about it, the more you will want to shoot. Shotgun "FIT" is most important here! All of the pumps you mention are worthy candidates. You must use the one that has the right fit for you. Length of pull, cheek height, etc needs to be right for successful clay shooting. That all being said, go shoot some clays with rented or borrowed shotguns if you have that option. If not, maybe ask the range pro or owner who he might recommend to accompany you to the gun store and help you check your favorite new shotgun for proper "FIT". Whatever you get, the best part is to go shoot it! Shoot it often, read up on your new hobby as you grow, and most of all enjoy it!

I started with a pump (Winchster 1300) that I still own. The recoil is a bit more harsh with a pump, but it will send those clays back to dust they were originally. I bought it because it FIT me best in the store when I was getting started as you are.

I bought my son an O/U he uses for trap. I use it occasionally with him. O/U is easy to clean.

I have an old Savage model 24 I shoot once in a while just cause I can. Breaks clays like the best of them.

Right now I am shooting a Remington 1100. Lighter recoil there and easy to repair if needed.

All of these guns will break clays as well as the other.

Forgot one thing...You may need a second job to support this hobby :)

[johnmcl]

Hi Zeede,

Welcome aboard, get ready for a ton of fun, and bring your checkbook.

There are guys on this forum that will weigh in later with expertise *far* in excess of my own meager experience. That said, let me give you the highlights of my 11 months of clay shooting.

My trap life started out in July of last year. I'd never shot at a single clay target in my life. I was embraced, encouraged, and coached by a great group of guys. That trend seems to be a national one in the shotgun community.

Life began on the line last year with my dad's Winchester Model 12. Its a great gun and had the envy of many an old shooter on the line. It worked great for trap and not so good for skeet. The problem with skeet and pumps, of course, is that there's four shots in which a second one needs to happen very quickly.

For a new shooter adding cycling the gun to a fast process can be a lot. Hence the first reason for my converting to a Remington 11-87 auto. I had a 26 inch barrel for skeet and a 30 inch barrel for trap. Skeet and Modified chokes were shot respectively for the two sports. Life was not only good, but better.

The 11-87 was shot in the fall league. Scores began climbing from the low teens to the upper teens (25 is the max as you may know). The season ended on a cold night in November with a personal record of 22.

We don't shoot over the winter in our league. So now I have plenty of time to practice as the weather permits. I was determined that this 11-87 and I were going to make a huge impact in the Spring league.

Then a series of events brought a Remington 870 TB into my life. This is an old grand gun from the 70's owned by a true master of the sport. This master, now a friend, sold this gun to me over the winter and now life is really good. Lots of practice with this gun, listening to good guys, and studying has me shooting 23's any time, and 24's when I concentrate.

I'm running long here, so let me summarize my thoughts as an 11-month veteran of the sport:

Any of the pump guns you've described will do just fine for trap. Be sure there's a rib on the barrel. Look for a barrel that's a minimum of 28 inches long. Shoot a modified choke for the first couple of months. Shot size doesn't matter when choosing between 7 1/2 and 8.

Your next gun should be an auto for skeet. It is not that you can't use a pump, you'll just find it easier.

Hope this helps,

[Red Label]

I too love the pumps and my favorite is the 870. One of my latest buys was a TB trap that I picked up at a gun show for $350. That price really helps the budget. I use a Ruger Red Label for skeet mostly but I find that I can also pump plenty fast enough for skeet so find yourself a nice pump and have a blast!!:D

[Ed/Pa]

1st, thinking about and doing are two different things. Your also talking 2 different games, which require certain needs for each. I'm not saying you cant shoot each game with the same gun, but you must understand each game before you put down your money on a particular gun.

Based on your budget, and your want of a pump gun,I'd recommend an 870 Remington (wood stock) model.
These are within your budget and are very reliable. You must be aware that any pump you choose for skeet or trap will put you at a disadvantage when it comes to ease of loading , and a real disadvantage if you have to shoot doubles. With that said, if you do wind up with a pump, you will also need one with the ability to change chokes. ( you will need a much more open choke for skeet as opposed to trap).

Whatever you choose, unless you purely luck out, you will need to make changes too. To get consistant at hitting clays and not destroy your shoulder in the process, gun fitt is important. This may mean changes in stock dimensions ,such as L.O.P.. Also a good recoil pad is a must.

The more you shoot each game , the more you will understand why you see fewer pumps used than O/U or Auto's. The pump will definetly do the job, but like anything else it requires a whole lot of practice, Best of luck, make a good decision, and go smoke those clays!

[Dave McCracken]

The guys have given good advice, a couple things.....

Bottom ejecting pumps like the BPS and Ithaca 37 are a little awkward on the range,and it's difficult for folks to tell if the action's open. Both those models are otherwise terrific choices, if not my first pick.

Good trap guns tend to be good for trap and a little slow for most everything else. The inertia that keeps the swing going for trap can be a bit too much for skeet or some shots in SC. Given that, I'd be inclined to get a GP shotgun and use it for trap, unless I got obsessed with trap(which does happen) and wanted a mission specific tool.

When starting out, buy and use the lightest loads you can find. The increasingly availabe 7/8 oz rounds are nigh perfect.

Do check out your local range. Many a shotgunner will let a polite newbie try a shot or two from their pet.

Be aware that while shotguns do not breed, they tend to multiply. We did a poll here a few years back, IIRC the average was 5 shotguns each, and 3/4 of us planned to get another ASAP.

That last applies to 870s in spades.

Welcome aboard.....

[Zeede]

Hey folks, thanks for all the input. I can see why a pump would be at a disadvantage for skeet, but there's just something nice about the sound of racking a shotgun. Plus nothing stops me from cutting my teeth on just trap and maybe get another gun later for skeet (are pumps at a similar disadvantage in sporting clays?).

I did some research and read some reviews, and decided a Remington 870 Express Super Magnum will probably fit the bill nicely. 28" barrel, the matte finished wood stock that I like (I really didn't like the glossy wood stocks). My CZ 452 FS fits me perfectly to a T, so the 870 should be a perfect fit as well, at least as far as I can tell from the specs listed on Remington's website. As you guys have mentioned though, I need to shoulder one to double-check first.

Rentals are definitely an option at that range, and I'd be surprised if they didn't have an 870. I'll be sure to rent and try one first.

Cameron

[The Deer Hunter]

Try to get one that has removable chokes.

[PJR]

My first clay gun was a 28" Remington 870SP with a synthetic stock and choke tubes. It worked just fine to learn both trap and skeet. It was ideal for neither but better for trap than skeet.

I like shooting and still do shoot skeet and sporting clays with a pump gun occasionally but when competing I'd rather have an o/u or semi-auto.

[zoom6zoom]

I started trap with a used $85 Mossy 500 until I decided I liked the game; I graduated to a pretty SKB600. Haven't hit the course in a long time now, though.

[Zeede]

Well, part of the reason I'm adamant about the pump-action aspect is that I'd like to own a bolt-action rimfire rifle with iron sights (back to basics), a centerfire semi-auto, tactical-looking rifle (unfortunately I'm in the wrong state to own something semi in .223, sigh), and a pump-action shotgun. Three long guns, three different categories of ammunition, three different methods of feeding a firearm :)

Cameron

[benatilstate]

Any of those should work. Also, one is perfectly capable of shooting just as well on skeet with a pump as with an auto or an o/u. I can attest to that - I shot a straight round with a pump, and I dont even have to think about pumping it anymore. In fact, I picked up a friends o/u, and tried to pump it for the second shot. Eventually, you'll want to upgrade, but to start with a pump with more than fit the bill. Make sure you can use a skeet choke for skeet - it makes a huge difference.

Its also kinda fun to get teased on a skeet field for shooting a pump and then beat the guy shooting a $5000+ gun.

[Zeede]

The other thing about getting an over/under is the cost. It's hard to find one w/o engraving all over it (yes, they are works of art, but it doesn't make me shoot any better) and even those that are just plain with wood furniture are mostly out of my price range. Unless I'm looking in the wrong places, over/unders are, on average, much more costly than a pump.

The way I figure it, $750 over/under VS $350 Pump + $400 of lessons, ammo, and clays...the pump wins out.

Cameron

[PJR]

Its also kinda fun to get teased on a skeet field for shooting a pump and then beat the guy shooting a $5000+ gun.
Yeah, sure. I read about this on the forums all the time.

Never see if very often in real life. :rolleyes:

[johnmcl]

PJR,

Show up my trap league and I'll show you.. :)

[PJR]

Show up my trap league and I'll show you..
Sure. Pumping the gun isn't an issue with singles trap. But skeet was the subject of the earlier comment. I believe these tall tales about the guy with the pump gun being made fun of on the skeet range only to shame the guys with the high dollar guns are mostly the figment of someone's imagination.

I'd never say it doesn't happen once in a while but I read about it a lot more often than I see it in real life.

[axeman_g]

Lost $20 to a guy with a Win Model 42 on sunday morning. He spotted me 3 clays and still whooped me 23 - 18. He bought beer though afterwards. And yes I do suck at skeet, one of my larger failings.

[icecorps]

JOHNMCL, or anyone, what's the rib for?

"Any of the pump guns you've described will do just fine for trap. Be sure there's a rib on the barrel."

[johnmcl]

Icecorps,

In clay sports, one can be shooting fast and furious for a good length of time. All that shooting will make the barrel uncomfortably hot. One symptom of a hot barrel is rising heat distorting your view of the clay target. It is the same principle as the wavering mirages off a hot asphalt bed.

The rib sight facilitates or at least mitigates the heat distortion. So in short, it provides a clearer sight picture when the barrel is smoking hot.

Hope this helps,