[vanbeast]

So, I'm after a .22. I shoot competitively, so it needs to be relatively competition-grade. I would like to spend under $500.

That being said, here's what I'm thinking:

Sig/Hammerli Trailside (Target Model, 6" barrel)
Walther P-22
POSSIBLY a S&W 41

I have serious doubts that the P-22 is in the same class as the other two. However, it is MUCH, MUCH cheaper. I'm only just getting started, so I don't really know how good I am...

Before anyone jumps up, let me say that Rugers are out of consideration. I have access to MK-512's, I don't really like them, and I'm certainly not going to buy one (when I can shoot one for free)

So... what do you think? Thanks!

[Standing Wolf]

Out of the box, my pre-agreement Smith & Wesson model 41 was a dog. It worked better after I replaced the recoil spring with a Wolff spring, but the rear sight kept falling off, and when I tightened down the screw, it bent the rib so it abraded the slide. I finally glued the rear sight in place. I believe the price of the model 41—if it's still being made—is over $800 these days.

For $500, I'd either buy a Ruger and a replacement sear and trigger from http://www.volquartsen.com or look for a used High Standard in good condition. Going the latter route requires knowing good from bad from indifferent. The best information on High Standards is at http://www.tm-techmark.com/jspacek.htm

I hear good things about Browning Buck Marks, but have never owned one.

[Graystar]

Out of the box, my pre-agreement Smith & Wesson model 41 was a dog. Wow! My experience was completely different. My model 41 has been perfect. It's better than my Ruger Mark II Competition, which has every possible Volquartsen part in it (except the LLV barrel.) I even have the Volquartsen grip. The trigger on the Ruger will never be as good as my model 41 because of its design. In the end I think the 41 was the better purchase.

The 41 and the Ruger were purchased new about 2 - 2 1/2 years ago.

[Zip06]

The Model 41 is the one to buy. Even if its a dog out of the box, its the best gun to begin building up. The Model 41 has been around forever and their are plenty of aftermarket items available.

I have a Ruger Mark II bull barrel and while it shoots very good, the Smith will outshoot it any day with any ammo.

[Chris Rhines]

Competition? Good for you! Nothing like a few rounds of Bullseye to work out the kinks in your hold.

I've either owned outright or had extensive shooting experience with the Smith M41, the Ruger MkII (stock and custom), the Browning Buckmark, the Baikal IZH-35, and the Pardini SP (my current .22) I've shot the Trailside Target a few times, but not as much as the others.

First, a couple of questions to narrow the field -

- What event are you going to be shooting, spec-i-cifically?
- What pistols do you already own/shoot? You mentioned the Ruger MkII; what do you like or dislike about them?
- Do you plan on springing for a red-dot sight, if such is legal for you?
- How important is having an adjustable trigger? Adjustable stocks?

Thanks,
Chris

[10-Ring]

I have recently had a opportunity to try my hand w/ a S&W model 41 and WOW :what: is the best way I can put it! I've got a Ruger that I like that has had some trigger work done, but still not quite the same...

[vanbeast]

- What event are you going to be shooting, spec-i-cifically?
- What pistols do you already own/shoot? You mentioned the Ruger MkII; what do you like or dislike about them?
- Do you plan on springing for a red-dot sight, if such is legal for you?
- How important is having an adjustable trigger? Adjustable stocks?Answers!

First off, let me say that I'm pretty new to shooting... probably only about 4-6 months or so. I don't care too much about an adjustable trigger... although, I know how I like triggers, so maybe it would be good to be able to get it the way I want.

As for events, I don't know too much about it, to be honest. I shoot with a college pistol club, and I'm going to try to make it on the team next year. If I don't, then I'll probably go find somewhere else where I don't have to try out to be able to compete :) I'm almost certain it's a .22-only event, at 50yds, on bullseye. Slow, timed, and rapid fire. The guys who are good (on the team) mostly shoot Hammerli's... I think maybe one guy shoots a 41.

I've shot the Ruger, like I said, but most of the time (okay, all of the time) I shoot a High Standard Supermatic Citation. I *love* the gun, but I want to own my own gun. I haven't been able to find an HS within my price range, especially not set up like the one I shoot (the big long barrel and nice custom grips).

Detailed discussion about the Ruger. First off, there is a general attitude at the club that anybody who is serious about shooting needs to be moved to an HS as fast as possible. The Rugers we have are probably not very nice, and definitely not well taken care of. There are however a ton of other variables. I've never put the ammo (CCI ... blue?) through one of the Rugers. I only shot the Ruger one-handed briefly. So, it could be that it's a fine gun and I just haven't given it a chance. However, I don't like the grip angle, I don't like the trigger, I don't like the cleaning procedure (UGH!) etc.

I would like to have the option to be able to mount a sight, because eventually I'll graduate and move on to standard bullseye (where I understand they're legal, right?)... plus I do some for-fun shooting, too...

What is the difference between the Pardini SP and the SPE? I can't think where I saw it, but someone around has an SPE for around $550, I think... and I mean, damn. Pardini.

Thanks :)

[makarov]

Sounds like you are really just thinking about getting into competition and don't know exactly what you want. That is kind of where I would be too. I love shooting .22 pistols and wish there was more organized .22 shooting in my area. You really should rethink the objection to the Rugers. I have a KMK-678GC which is the slabside competition model. Great gun and there are lots of upgrades for it. I also have a Browning Medalist. They are hard to find as shooters. I got mine for under $400 and it was missing the foregrip. It has a trigger that puts the stock Ruger to shame. Great gun. Made in 1962. Keep an eye out for older Brownings.

Now, if I was seriously going to get into competition I would buy a Russian Baikal IZH-35M http://www.cdnninvestments.com They still have them for $379 I think. plus transfer etc... Truly competition grade gun. Walther uses them as a base to build on and adds better grips and pretties them up, but the basic gun is really accurate. I'm thinking about getting one soon.

I re-read your post above and should add that the Ruger Govt. model comes with optical rings too. So does the Russian Baikal. Of the two if you are seriously going to compete check into the Baikal. Do a Google search for IZH-35m and you will come up with a ton of info.

Good Luck.

[vanbeast]

I've looked at the IZH... despite a lot of other people's opinions, I think it's a sexy gun... however, I've read enough nit-picking bad things about them that I'm hesitant.

I think the worst part is that I don't really have a chance to shoot any of these guns before I run out and buy them. Nowhere around here rents guns (that I'm aware of... except one place that doesn't have any competition-grade .22's), and I don't know anyone who has any of these.... it's driving me crazy!

The Ruger's just don't feel right in my hand. Next time I get a chance I'm going to put another 100 or so through one and see if maybe I've been too hasty.

[blue86buick]

If you don't like the grip on the Mark I/II, have you considered the 22/45? I didn't like the grip on the Mark I either (or the mag release), but I love the 22/45.

[Chris Rhines]

If you're shooting on a college pistol team (which is how I got started as well;) then you're probably shooting either Collegiate or Conventional (rimfire only) bullseye pistol. Rules are similar, although both games differ slightly in target format and range procedure.

For an introductory bullseye .22LR, based on your requirements, I would go ahead and snap up that Pardini SPE. $550 is a very good price for a used Pardini, and with a pistol like that you remove all your excuses. If you miss, it ain't the gun's fault. (To answer your question, the SP is a newer model of the SP with slightly different sights and a reinforced frame.)

Failing the Pardini, I'd reconsider the Ruger MkII. I'm shooting one right now while my Pardini waits for new grips, and I can make consistent Expert scores with it (90+ out of 100,) or put ten shots into an inch at 50 yards from a solid sandbag rest. My Ruger is an old MkII with Volquartsen trigger parts and a 30mm UltraDot scope on a Clark mount. You can have an orthopedic stock made up for the Ruger that will help it to fit your hand better, if that's the main concern (I like the factory stocks, but not everyone will.)

I'd pass on the S&W 41 unless you find a really awesome deal on one. I had one, and it was okay, but the non-adjustable trigger and the poorly designed factory sights really began to grate on me. I sold it to fund my Pardini, and never regreted the decision.

The HS Citation, well, if you can find one, I'd get it. I've shot one, and I like it a lot. That said, an HS is not a Pardini or a Feinwerkbrau and it will never be one. I wouldn't break the bank on one.

---

Whatever you end up getting, buy a box or two of every type of match .22 ammo you can find, and test them all from the bench. Find one that groups well and that you can afford, and buy lots more (preferably from the same factory lot.)

Then go shoot! Keep track of your progress in your shooting log.

When you get a chance, take a look at these sites:
www.bullseyepistol.com
www.pilkguns.com

Lots of useful info to be found here.

Have fun, and good luck.

- Chris

[Jeff OTMG]

In that price range do yourself a favor and consider a Baikal IZH 35. Here is a photo and some specs on it along with some other pistols.
http://www.targetshooting.ca/firearm_db_all.cfm?classid=1

They are available from Jerry's for around $350 NIB. You can also buy a used S&W mod 41. I have bought 3 of them for $300-$350 in the last few years and there are plenty of them for under $500.

[New_comer]

Saw this at the Taurus website, available 4th quarter '03:

http://www.taurususa.com/imagesMain/H_922B.jpg

MSRP at $310.

Not bad... :D

[Shmackey]

For competition, the P22 is a damn joke. Fun gun, but don't even bother.

In your price range, you'd be crazy not to look at that Baikal. Besides that, you're back in Ruger/Buckmark/Trailside territory and there are plenty of never-ending debates about that.

A Marvel conversion unit on top of a 1911 frame is supposedly as accurate as a high-dollar target .22.