[Ala Dan]

While sitting here at the ole' computer I was just
thinking of some of the handguns I would
NOT want in a gunfight!:D Here's my partial list!:uhoh:

Ravens
Jennings
Lorcin
F.I.E.'s
Bryco
Charco

and I'm sure the list will grow by leaps and bounds!:)
What's your take; please add the manufactuer to the
list.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Jeff]

Definitely the Jennings, Dan.

On Sunday I took my parents shooting. I had my USP .45 and my 80's S&W 586, and my Dad had his old model 10 I gave him.
Somebody, and I'm not sure who, gave my Mom a Jennings .22 about 12 yrs ago.

Seriously, this little POS jammed 50% - 60% of the time. Such guns have a negative value, since they destroy ammunition you paid money for.

The Jennings is a Saturday night special of the highest degree, and I would rather have my Busse Steel Heart (lg knife) in my hand, any day, than that little POS.


edited to add some other names I have always associated with crap: Bersa, and Iver Johnson

[Ala Dan]

Greetings Jeff-

I respectfully disagree with the last two you mentioned.
Several years ago Iver Johnson made what was called a
TP-22; or an extact copy of the little Walther TPH-22. I
bought one NIB for a grand total of $124.00 out the door.
Shooting a variety of .22LR's through this gem, I could
not get this little gun to jam nary a time!:D I trusted this
weapon so much that I gave it to my wife for defensive
purposes. Unfortunately, the little TP-22 was stolen
when my wife's vechile was car-jacked on 10-13-94;
and the gun was never recovered*. The only downside
to the TP-22 was the fact that extra magazines were
very expensive; something like $100 a piece!:(

Now on to the Bersa .380, and I've heard and read
some mighty good things regarding this little semi-
auto pistol. Comments such as very reliable, combat
accurate, and lightweight come to mind. I've always
owned the much more expensive Walther's; PPK and
PPK/S, but I wouldn't mind adding a Bersa to my
inventory!:uhoh: :D

*FootNote- the car was recovered on 10-18-94, with
the no-good --- perp at the wheel. Luckily, my wife
was not injured; just traumatized!

Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Jeff]

I certainly have had no experience with the Bersas and Iver Johnsons. I guess they are kinda like the Taurus guns, in that they started out kinda crappy, but have improved significantly, to the point where they have their deserved fans.

Sorry to hear about the car-jacking. Thank goodness your wife was unharmed. Bastards.

Another thing about that little Jennings .22: it has like a 40 lb trigger on it.

[10-Ring]

Guns I wouldn't want in a gunfight...
Any AMT, I shot a little FIE 380 once that kinda sucked, a Walther PPK/s if I can't reliably shoot hollow points, one of those little single action revos (NAA?) in 22lr or 22 mag or a 454 Casull revo (don't think I'd last more than a couple shots :eek: ).

Now, I chose these guns not from a lack of quality, but from my inability to perform well w/ them. If I can't shoot it well, I don't want it ;)

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Clerke revolvers out of Santa Monica Kaliforny. True junk guns.

And you forgot RG's.

[sanchezero]

O I dunno. I think if I were gonna be in a gunfight I'd much rather the bad guys have one of those than an H&K, Glock or good 1911.

;)

[firestar]

Desert Ego. Jam-O-Matic. Also it would be hard to hold onto and would slip in my hand.

[tlhelmer]

I would add the Bersa .380 caliber. I had one that would not fire two rounds in a row without a jam.:barf:

[denfoote]

The Haskel and it's sibling, High Point!!! :barf:

[Brian Williams]

I think I might want a Hi-point cause I would not eve have to fire a shot cause the BG's would either feel badly for me or be ROTFLTAO

[MJRW]

Sigma .380. Not even heavy enough to be a club.

And I would have no reservations at all about having my Bersa Thunder .380 with me. Never been able to get it to jam.

[hksw]

Which FIE are you focusing on? I've got an old TZ-75 that has worked very well and wouldn't feel undergunned if it was the only thing I had in a fight.

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's hksw-

Years ago this company, F.I.E. made a .38 Special
called the "Titan Tiger"; available with 2", and quite
possibly 3" barrel's. Funny thing is that the 2" bbl
lenght's weren't allowed importation into the U.S.A.,
under conditions of the 1968 Gun Control Act. There-
fore F.I.E. (along with the Rossi Corporation) took
matters into their own hand's; by simply taking a
hacksaw to each handgun produced, thus making
a 2" barrel. I have seen some mighty shotty work
on the very early production models!:uhoh: Such
as visible hacksaw (or tool) marks; plus these
weapons weren't properly re-blued, in some
cases leaving the exposed metal surface setting
there glaring at perspective buyer's!:rolleyes: :(

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Preacherman]

What gun would I not want in a gunfight?

An empty one...

:evil: :neener: :D

[kalibear45]

Any single-shot handgun (like a Thompson Contender) but not because they are unreliable.

Yiiikes! :uhoh:

[foghornl]

The Rohm/RG series..I have a snubby .38Spl RG, but I don't shoot it much.

The "Clerke" revolvers. Don't know who made/sold them, but that is as close to a chunk of scrap metal as I can describe.

[had a BG learn about the .32 Clerke the hard way when I worked as an Auxillary Reserve Deputy many years back...He took a couple of shots at me, then tried running into a building. Seems he smacked the muzzle against the steel door frame, and warped it so bad the cylinder bound up.]

[Alan Smithiee]

got a little FIE "texan" .22 SA clone that will hit to POA and keyhole broadside at 25 yards first time every time.. if you remember to take the safety off.

it's good for very basic instruction for people who are afraid of guns, they seem to find the single action "cowboy" look less thretening for some reason.

[grenadier]

Bryco / Jennings
Raven
Phoenix
Lorcin
Accutek
Chinese Makarovs made on bad days

Chinese Makarovs are certainly an enigma. Some have excellent quality, and rival that of their East German counterparts, while others are P'sOS.

[makdaddy03]

Llama
And one Bad Kimber:D

[4v50 Gary]

I want all of those guns in the gun fight. The only trick is that I have a 45 ACP (1911 type by ParaOrdnance is nice), a SMG (HK UMP in 45), a Bradley, a carrier strike force and the Battleship New Jersey as backup. Of course, so I won't have any bragging rights, my opponents will all suffer from what Preacherman calls "empty gun."

[DF357]

I have a Jennings 22 and you're right, it jammed and destroyed the lead on each jam. If you have a manual that comes with it, it tells you to use a higher powered 22 ammo - specifically the 'Stinger'.

I bought a couple of boxes of stingers and it never jammed all the way thru those boxes - not once. The stinger has a slightly longer cartridge that doesn't allow the feed ramp to dig into it like it does when there's lead there in a typical 22 round.

When fed the correct recommended ammo, in my personal experience, the Jennings works and works well.

My son has a Ruger 22 that exhibits exactly the same symptoms as the Jennings. With stingers, that problem went away there too. Is a Ruger a piece of crap?

Funny, other manufacturers recommend using (or not using) certain types of ammo and they doen't get labelled as crap.

Jennings may or may not deserve the rep they have, but let's read the instructions first.

[Johnny Guest]

- - -writing about the Rohm/RG series.

I read this thread last night but was too tired to post then.

Unfortunately, sometimes even the worst Piece o' Trash works.

1. Hinckley used an RG-14 in his attempted assassination of President Reagan. The stupid little piece worked well enough to wound BOTH the president and Secretary James Brady, giving Sarah Brady and Handgun Control a talking point for years.

2. February 1978 - - - I lost a friend to a drug dealer with a Rohm RG-38. The doper shot Texas Ranger Bob Doherty once in the forehead while fleeing from another officer. Cruddy revolver, mediocre ammo, one dumb-lucky shot . . . . Stuff happens.

Another vote for the Clerke "First" revolvers, both in .22 and .32.

Best,
Johnny

[popeye]

Nambu 94

[Mannlicher]

Lets see, I guess my additions to the list would include:

Bersa
KelTec
H&K
CZ52
Makarov
Any .32 semi auto
Any .380 semi auto
Any .25 semi auto
Any .22
Bren 10
early Sigma's

[Jeff]

DF357,

That's interesting to hear. I think I'll buy a box of Stingers to put through it.

Keep in mind, however, I'm not the only one here complaining about Jennings.

It's funny you mentioned your son has a Ruger-- I assume pistol-- that does the same thing. Someone else on these forums (it might have been you) said they had a Mark II that would feed effortlessly with Stingers. My experience with my Mark II is that the gun has functioned flawlessly, with the exception of the Stingers, which would not feed properly.

However, my 10/22 loves Stingers; and everything else.

[sm]

RG .38 spl. snubby.

I have a friend with one, I think 2 cyls line up, spits lead ...sometimes most lead exits out the bbl. ;) Heavy enough to use as a brick-throw at BG... and then do the tennis shoe shuffle...

[Delmar]

I suppose I would take ANYTHING that would launch a bullet, make the bad guy have to come at me where I have the advantage, and take his weapon, so long as his is not worse than the one I stopped him with.........

[38Mike]

A Taurus 445, although , it's heavy enough, and my arm still has enough life in it, that, after the firing pin spring breaks,I could launch a decent fastball at the bad guy's noggin.....:D

[PawDaddy]

From my own experiences; S&W Sigma .380 and two Charco .38 snubs. Both of these on the same day!

Alot of you mentioned the Bersa .380. My experience with them has been good. I owned one of the older one's years back. Never had a problem with it. It was really heavy, though. I sold it to a friend. My son has one now and has never had any problems.

The guy at the shop where we bought my son's said that he sells lots of them and none have been returned. At least not at the time we bought my son's. He also said that he has seen more problems with the Walther's than the Bersa's.

[waynzwld]

10ring, can I ask you why you don't like the AMTs? I have 3 of them and NONE has ever given me any trouble. These are the older ones, not the newer style. They have always gone bang when the trigger is pulled. No feed failures and no ejection problems.

[Archie]

I'd pass on:

Jo-Lo-Ar automatic....
Gilesti
Nambu anything... (been mentioned but bears repeating.)
Tokarev
Broomhand (C96) Mauser.

All of them were "military" pistols of one time and place or another... all were underpowered, had rotten sights and worse triggers.

[jarhead]

Colt "All American 2000"...it was the worst and most unreliable quality handgun I've ever owned.... and I've own literally 100's of different handguns...

[DF357]

I've got a new (been sitting on the dealers shelf for a while) SW Sigma380. I've heard horror stories about the feeding on the early ones. I've put a cuppla hundred rounds through mine and it functions perfectly. I've heard of others with the same experience. I carry it whenever I can't carry my CS45. I trust it regularly. It is extremely accurate for its size.

Sorry your experience was bad - must have been an early one before they got the bugs out.