[MyRoad]

I was just looking over the thread on building an inexpensive safe room (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=281560), and it got me thinking. I'm in the process of purchasing a house that is partially incomplete (the downstairs is finished and livable, the upstairs is all studs and sub-floor). While I won't have the room or money to build a safe room, I will have the opportunity build in hidden closets, trap doors, etc.

This may be a tough topic to get going, because if its "hidden" or "secret", you're probably not going to want to talk about it on the Internet... but... anyone willing to share any ideas for interesting ways to make dead-space in a house accessible as a means of 'secure' storage? To be clear, this would be "safe" by virtue of being well hidden, not by steel doors or elaborate locks.

I've thought about putting a false wall in the back of a closet, for instance, but I wonder what would be the best way to "hinge" the openning would be, and how best to hide the seems? I've also thought about shortening a closet, and then putting a gun safe in the hidden recess.

[matt87]

Trap door under the carpet, near an unsecured edge perhaps?

[dmftoy1]

I think if I was building a new house I'd take a look at the space surrounding the furnance vent/water heater vent. In our house it's a fairly big aread and I think you could easily slip in one or two of those safes designed to fit in between the wall studs. (last time I looked around $150). If I was trying to hide them then I think I'd put them in the wall of a closet. (preferably a sidewall) With a bunch of coats and such hanging in there I don't think it'd be obvious at all.

Have a good one,
Dave

[jester5167]

In the house that I grew up on we had a small crawl space in the back of a closet that led into a decent sized area, about the size of a mini van. To my knowledge when an addition was built onto the house there was some space in one of the walls, underneath the room was additional cloest with high ceilings. It was always a neat place to play and fool around. Not sure if that helps at all.

[IamtheNRA]

My wife and I are planning to have our next house custom built with a combination vault/safe room in the center of the house. It will be surrounded by reinforced concrete and will be able to withstand a direct hit from an F5 tornado. :cool:

[MyRoad]

Here's an example of a bigger option I'm considering; When I finish the upstairs, I'll convert one of the downstairs bedrooms into a den. That room currently has two closets along an outside wall. I'm thinking about tearing off the sheetrock around the folding doors, and closing the whole thing in -- re-sheetrocking, creating a new wall surface and thereby enclosing an approximately two foot deep empty space (the depth of what was the closets) the length of one wall of that room...

I'm just not sure what the best way to access it would be. One of the narrow ends of the space could be accessible from the garage, but to access from the den, I'm not sure about how to best hide the doorway. I could make a built-in bookshelf that is hinged, I guess, or try to find some sort of large hanging decorative... thing.

Just wondering if anyone has been down this road, or there are any tried and true solutions for concealing doors.

[never_retreat]

IamtheNRA My wife and I are planning to have our next house custom built with a combination vault/safe room in the center of the house. It will be surrounded by reinforced concrete and will be able to withstand a direct hit from an F5 tornado.
Why not just build the whole house to withstand and f5:confused:
If I lived in tornado prone area that is what I would do.
At least take the wheels off. After all tornados are attracted to trailers. :banghead:

[sm]

May I suggest :

-You really need to know and trust the builder and any work-persons doing this work.

-Mom & Pop Safe and Locksmith persons are whom I would contact.
Many times these persons if not themselves into Cabinetry, Wood and Trim, have trusted persons they have worked with before.

These persons deal with Security and Confidentialiy on a daily basis and their livelihoods depend on it.

Concealed means Concealed.

I would NOT post on publicly on Internet any ideas, or what one is/ has done.

Back in the day, when folks made furniture such as Roll-Top Desks, hidden compartments were specially built.
These were NOT always the same from desk to desk.
More than once a furniture maker went to assist a widow to make sure no important items were in a desk...
Folks still find by accident "hiding spots" from generations since passed.

I had a customer find instructions , and these instructions lead to a large sum of ca$H in home...
Relatives did not trust banks, they had been through The Depression.

Careful what is posted please...

[Rabid Rabbit]

I can't find the website now but one company specializes in hidden closets. To hide the door seam they use trim work that extends beyond the seam. It seemed to work well using a fancy looking built in book case to hide the closet.

For a lock I've thought one or two magnetic child cabinet locks might work. Nothing fancy but you need to know exactly where to put a very strong magnet to open the door.

[Bubbles]

Concealed Door in Bookcase (http://pervivere.blogspot.com/2005/09/holly-shelf-unit-batman.html)

[ZeSpectre]

One of the neater hidden door setups I've seen had a switch in an entirely different room that released the panel. It' was fairly cool.

[SSN Vet]

Why not just build the whole house to withstand and f5

As an engineer who has completed courses on this topic, I'll only say that a house built to withstand an f5 would be extremely expensive to build and not at all comfortable to live in. These kind of winds are extremely powerful!

I had a customer find instructions , and these instructions lead to a large sum of ca$H in home...
Relatives did not trust banks, they had been through The Depression.

As newly weds, my wife and I rented a house from a man who had lived there for 75 years! After his wife died, his kids had helped him "process" her life's cache of possessions and they found ever $10,000 in cash hidden in coffee cans in the floor boards. I'm still kicking myself for not going through the garden with a metal detector before we moved out.

[DogBonz]

for the ultimate hidden room check this out.

http://www.21club.com/web/onyc/onyc_c1a_cellar.jsp

This is one of the best retuants in Manhattan but it used to be a speak-easy. It has one on the coolest hidden doors where they used to have the booze stored. Check it out. If you are ever in NYC, I highly recommend stopping in for a fantastic meal and if you ask nicely, you can get a tour of some history. It is really cool. They still have bottles of prohibition whisky, bottles of JFK and Frank Sinatra’s personal wine that they are storing.

[nezumi]

I'm not a handyman or anything, but it would seem to me that cutting a hole in the drywall would make for a perfect spot to cache some stuff between wall studs. All you have to do is choose an interior wall of such a texture and color that the seams are difficult to detect. I remember in my old house, my room had a dark wood with vertical lines of rougher wood. If the bottom went below the carpet, one could align the seams with the rough wood.

Alternatively, I'd look at furniture. Most of a bed frame or a chair frame is empty space, covered only by fabric. If you're any good with stitching, you just put the item in the frame through a hole out of sight and then you stitch up the hole.

[MyRoad]

Bingo! Bubbles, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for.

I'll keep looking for clues, but thanks everyone for your suggestions.

I should be in the house in about three weeks, and then the fun will begin.

[ar10]

If you have a built-in fire place and raised mantle in front. Those have really good possibilities.

[S.P.E.C.T.R.E.]

I have a small niche in my house that would make a perfect sized gun storage area. I've been thinking of putting a normal door on the outside, which, when opened, reveals a small breaker panel (which is not hooked to anything). I'm thinking of making the wall the breaker panel is on a false wall, which opens to the room. Thoughts?

EDIT:

Or, how about no door, but have the hidden door open when the breakers are set to a specific sequence?

[Marlin]

An oldie but goody, checkout the videos

http://www.hiddenpassageway.com/

[sm]

BGs already know this, so posting on Internet is not giving anything away to the BGs, still might be good for Good Guys to read.

Metal Detectors.

Going w-a-y back when metal detectors first came out, BGs started using these to find hidden areas in homes and businesses.

My interest was piqued, and so I contacted some Police buddies. They too were curious about a rash of metal detectors being used. So a ex con or two were contacted.

-Silver chest in a wall in a closet, along with a a handgun taken.
-Bottom of Silent Butler, and the wooden box with coin collection, and rolls of silver dollars.

-Couple renting a house while one being built. Older house, with no closet space as they were built back in the day.
Two foot lockers taken, others left.
The ones left never even opened - locks still in place and locked. Old textbooks, notebooks, photos....
Two taken had the Silverware, handguns, long guns broken down.
These just stacked in a extra bedroom with other boxes of non metal items ...

Ex cons said this was passed along in "Cell College" (jail) . While many think BGs are all dumb, many are not.
Some know about construction, varies phases of construction, some know about blueprints, and the Library is nice place to read up on HVAC , plumbling, wiring and all.

One ex con pointed across the room to a wall outlet.
This was not a "fake" outlet with a little "drawer" one can stick some cash, or small Jlry into - instead a real outlet.

"Notice the distance from others, and where located?" he asked.
"That is most likely where a bed would be placed..."

Empty room, and Rental Property of a Police buddy.
Policeman's dad had done that wall outlet when he was a kid, undo the plate screw, and wire was attached to a bag with cash in case of emergency.

Ex con found with a metal detector the slick hiding spot this Policeman's dad had used in that house when they lived in it.


Metal framing, instead of wood framing, while more expensive, does mess with detectors...
Still if a person knows how stuff is built...
Biggest breech of security is folks blabbing about it...

[ctdonath]

able to withstand a direct hit from an F5 tornado.
Why not just build the whole house to withstand and f5Probably the same reason they don't make airplanes out of the relatively indestructible material they build flight recorders in - viable for the intended purpose, but just doesn't work on a significantly larger scale.

[TallPine]

I have an old wardrobe made out of wood from an apple tree ;)

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Build a false wall in the basement and use peg board to cover the wall. Put up a shelf to cover the whole length at the top. Hang tools on the panels and prop a ladder. PM me. I've done it. #1 rule in security is if they don't know it's there they definitely can't steal it. You will never find where I put the door period.

[paramedic70002]

I've always been fascinated with hidden areas. Always wanted to have a hidden ladder from bedroom closet down to family room, or passageway between my bedroom closet to another bedroom closet that led to a different escape route. Have also thought about hardened door between living areas and isolated bedroom area with escape through master bedroom. Do plan on getting a rope ladder!

[Morglan]

I have an old wardrobe made out of wood from an apple tree


Tallpine-

Wow! Great (obscure) reference! I've read the books a thousand times.

I wonder if anyone else will catch it...

[MyRoad]

Wow! Great (obscure) reference! I've read the books a thousand times.

I wonder if anyone else will catch it...

I gave TallPine enough credit to assume that his comment was not simply a failure to take his meds, and was actually a reference to something, but speaking for myself I have no idea what it refers to.

[waterhouse]

I thought it was a C.S. Lewis reference, but I was just guessing from the wardrobe comment.

[IllHunter]

Would foil faced insulation between the studs interfere with the metal detectors?
I concieved of a hidey hole behind the bathroom towel, behind the wallpapered balsa plank covering the loaded six shooter pointed away from the towels, ready to grab after asking the intruder to "go" or after retreating to the only room with a body size ceramic covered cast iron hiding place . Having the gun supported by dowel in barrel would keep bugs from nesting.Perhaps heavy lube would do the same for the wheel gap etc. Any ideas for improving, perhaps a foil lining to the balsa?

[Morglan]

I thought it was a C.S. Lewis reference, but I was just guessing from the wardrobe comment.

Assuming Tallpine was indeed referring to The Chronicles of Narnia, in the first book (The Magician's Nephew) explains the origin of the magical wardrobe that appears in the second book (The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe).

I called it obscure because not a whole lot of people have read (or heard of) the other six books in the Chronicles, and you would have had to have read the first one to know the wardrobe was built from wood from an apple tree.

Great books--I still enjoy them, and my 6 year old does as well.

[Titan6]

''TO THE BAT CAVE!''

Had to. the tinfoil comment threw me over the top.

[Rembrandt]

Always thought a "gentelmans library" would be classy....with hidden wall leading to the Bat Cave or a gun room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/hiddenwall1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/hiddenwall2.jpg

[Nil]

BGs already know this, so posting on Internet is not giving anything away to the BGs, still might be good for Good Guys to read.

Metal Detectors.

The thing is, no security precautions short of Fort Knox is going to keep out intelligent, determined thieves. The best you can hope for is stopping the vast majority of criminals (i.e. smash and grab types, basic burglars, etc.).

[Nil]

An oldie but goody, checkout the videos

http://www.hiddenpassageway.com/

It seems I just found another reason I need to become wealthy some day.

[glassman]

My uncle has a very well concealed hidden panel in his kitchen. He has a bank of floor cabinets with a formica countertop seperating the kitchen from the den. There are stools in front of the counter and this is where he sits for meals. The facia of the cabinet (where his knees would touch when sitting) swings up revealing a peg board backing and is stocked with his collection. It is seamless and totally hidden.

[SuperNaut]

Would foil faced insulation between the studs interfere with the metal detectors?

You'd have to line all of the outside room walls with foil for it to work. Otherwise the detector would pick up the foil area just as readily as metal from your valuables. You could paint the walls of the entire outside room with metallic paint and the detector would go off no matter where it was pointed. But it would also turn your outside room into a Faraday Cage. That might or might not be a bonus for you.

More vexing would be the fact that most (if not all) metal detectors can be tuned. If I were the thief, and I encountered a lined room, I'd just re-tune and filter out the foil or metal layer of paint and get to work.

[Glockfan.45]

If the upstairs is unfinished this should be easy. Pic an interior wall like the back of a closet and cut a hole through the ceiling in the back of said closet. Then build a new wall in the back of the closet covering the hole in the ceiling, and creating a hollow space. You can the cover the floor panel upstairs in carpet. If you could so so on a wall next to your hot water heater or other such items that would be even better. The reason being that one would expect a metal detector to go off in that area.

Heating vents are good too. I use to keep large sums of cash on hand, and rented a apartment in a not so good area. I would put the cash in a ziplock bag with a string tied to it. Then I would just drop the bag down the heat vent and duct tape the string to the underside of the pipe where it could not seen. When I was a kid we lived in an old house that had a small attic space with access hidden behind the wood paneling in my bedroom. I stayed in that room for 15 years before I ever found that access panel. The space ran the whole length of the upstairs, and was almost tall enough to stand in. Needless to say I hid all the things a teen typically hides from their parents in that space from then on.

To this day I don't think my parents know about that space as I never told them about it. I may still have crap hidden int there come to think about it ;) .

[cpaspr]

it's a reference to The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis.

Major hidden room scenario, but with uncertain access times (it only worked three times).

[Chrontius]

Sci-Fi City here has a Shakespeare bust with a hinged head... it acts as a switched power strip, with a status light. If you wanted something a little baroque and corny, use a solenoid actuator or something

[JamisJockey]

http://www.hiddendoors.com/home.asp
I saw thier products once at a homeshow in Utah. The wife and I are expecting to build a McMansion next year, I fully intend on using one.

http://www.hiddendoors.com/gallery/hd_brown_open.jpg

[MyRoad]

http://www.hiddendoors.com/home.asp

The bookcase or "built in" seems to be my best bet for the door. Working off of the existing closets that I won't need looks like the best place to start.

Using and creating dead-spaces will be easy, creating passages will be a fun challenge, but something that I think will occur to me as I spend more time in the house.

[loose cannon]

my only issue with those diy vaultdoors is that id want a way to get out of your "safe room" if the bgs got the drop on u and locked you and yours in the room and perhaps set your house on fire to eliminate witnesses

[BB93YJ]

Ten years ago we bought a house that needed some "updating".
One day as I was busy painting one of the rooms, my wife was busy pulling up the old carpet in the hall, which, at one end had a closet that wasn't but about a foot deep, just right for storing linens and such. The carpet had been installed right on into the floor area of the closet.

When she got to the closet and was trying to pull up that carpet, she came and got me because when she'd pull, the back portion of the wall would slide up. ???

After checking, I removed the shelves and some previous owner had created a false wall with the lower half, (about four feet worth), able to slide up behind the upper half, all fitted into a grooved piece of trim that was unnoticeable when the shelves were in place.

Behind that sliding portion of wall was a nice 4'x6' space that could have held all sorts of interesting things at some point. Made a great hiding place.

[ec-10]

Rent the movie "The Score" with Robert Deniro and Edward Norton. Keep an eye out for Deniro's bathroom (in two scenes).

[nezumi]

It occurs to me that most interior doors are largely hollow. Not the sort of place you'd normally look for a gun, and the wood is soft enough that you can literally just punch through it. Put it near enough to the doorknob or hinges, and there's already a reason for the metal detector to go off.