[brownie0486]

I recently had a contact weld/make me a safe out of 3/8" steel he picked up for me at a local site that cost half price as they were just sitting around. He used a laser cutter he has to make it. I'm sure others could make their own connections and find similiar steel sheets to have welded into a safe.

The safe weighs 900+ pounds empty, and the inside dimentions for actual storage space measure 2 feet deep, 4 feet wide and 6 feet high. He welded two brackets that mate with the door, and used blind heavy duty hinges. I have the circular locks that don't allow a pair of bolt cutters to be put to them as well.

Total cost was 300.00 delivered [ I helped get it onto the platform as it took 4 of us to move it on dolly's ]. It's not fireproof, and I'm not concerned about that. I spray painted the front and sides of the steel so it didn't look so rough after it was delivered and in place. A similiar safe of that internal storage size would cost over 1500.00.

Here's a pic of the safe in it's resting place.

Brownie

[jakemccoy]

The 3/8" thick steel is pretty serious.

Just remember that the safe is only as strong as it's weakest part. I'm pretty sure a low level thief could get through those padlocks in less than 30 seconds. The main reasons safes are expensive are their locking mechanism and their fire protection, the latter being a huge part. Your safe does not have at least 3 large locking bolts that extend from the door to the safe housing. Also, if your hinges are going to be external, you need to make sure they're tamper proof (drill resistant and fail safe if otherwise damaged).

There's a lot of thought that goes into making a good safe that is not readily apparent at first glance. How much thought did you put into this design? Did you consult engineers or people who are in the business of cracking safes? I suppose if you don't have an extremely valuable collection, or if you're just trying to keep out kids, it doesn't matter much.

By the way, under California law, that would not be considered a gun safe. CA standard is really not that stringent:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/gunsafe.php?PHPSESSID=9696d0f77b69b1bee87b3eb294817eb4

[cloudcroft]

Nice safe. And 900 pounds empty is a good weight. But bolt it to the wall or floor, too, just in case.

The 3/8" steel is pretty serious and as with most safes/RSCs -- even those costing thousands of dollars -- yours will deter most thieves and that's the main reason we have safes (the rare "professional safe cracker" thief isn't likely to be interested in OUR safes so they are unlikely to be encountered). So forget the pros...this will stop the smash-and-grab thieves as most are...they will not want to hang out in your apartment/house too long. This goes for us with factory-made RSCs/safes, too.

If you can get ahold of that fire-rated sheetrock (?) they use in lots of the fire-rated safes, you could use it to line yours.

Yes, I know that stuff probably isn't as good as the other fire-stuff some safe companies use (those "blankets"), but it'll sure be helpful in turning your safe with no fire-protection into a safe with at least SOME.

True, your locks resist bolt-cutters getting around them but they still may be the weak link if someone pounds on them with a serious hammer (if he isn't worried about making noise) so I would get something bigger/stronger (maybe something usually used on motorcycles for example).

See if you like any of these:

http://www.lockitt.com/PadlockHighSecurity.htm

http://www.kryptonitelock.com/Products/List.aspx?cid=1000&scid=1003

http://www.onguardlock.com/disc/

http://www.squirelocks.co.uk/


...just trying to give you some more ideas.

Good luck,

-- John D.

P.S. Like the rest of us with safes, don't leave any TOOLS around for some punk to use on your safe! That's REALLY insulting...using your own tools to break into your safe.

[DogBonz]

I think that we get hung up on silly things like “should I get a combo lock or key pad”, and then we argue for hours about thieves and EMP’s from nukes. I think that the main thing is to have something to lock up your guns. My friend who could not afford to buy a “safe” or RSC made a pretty decent RSC with an old truck box, some spare steel, and a welder. Is it pretty? No. Is it perfect? No, but I think that it will slow down your average smash and grab thief enough to make him reconsider.

I know someone else who fortified a small closet for not much money using mostly scraps from construction sites. He is a carpenter, so he is very handy and has the knowledge and tools to do it, but he did it for almost nothing.

[buck00]

I think any safe is better than nothing. If you watch "To Catch a Thief" most burglars focus on grabbing whatever they can as fast as they can and making an exit. They don't often have time to sit down with a blow torch and face shield like in the movies.

I agree about bolting a safe to the wall if possible. It does no good if they can carry or dolly it out.

[brownie0486]

I'm pretty sure a low level thief could get through those padlocks in less than 30 seconds.

I doubt that very much. They can't be hammered open due to the round design on the shackle, bolt cutters can't get on it while locked in place. Anti pick mushroom pins prevent most anyone with simple picks from getting them open. Hinge pins have been welded closed and can't be driven out. You'll need a welder to get at them, unlikely they'll have one at their disposal when they get to it.

28 Series
The 28 Series Buffo is the economy version of the Diskus® padlock. Features of the 28 series Buffo include:
• Unique shackle design ensures protection from bolt cutters & pry bars
• Available keyed alike or keyed different
• Anti-pick mushroom pins to resist picking
• Lifetime Warranty on manufacturer defects
• Stainless steel body and solid brass or galvanized internal parts ensure lifetime rust resistance

Recommended for motorcycles [ Harley's ] in many ads.

A professional could get by the features as it is built, I'm not expecting pros, I'm expecting the low life tweekers and kids who may get into the area and try to get past the security with little to no experience in either safe cracking or lock picking [ if they bring picks to begin with ].

They won't be moving it out of it's resting place either unless they use a Mack truck. My own truck could not pull it out with a chain due to the floor and the tires spinning continuously long before they got it moved. They can't take it out of the place it sits unless they drag it out as the ceiling is too low to get a truck in there and then load it as well [ we tried to get it in there that way and it's not possible ].

They'd have to know it was there, what they needed to remove it, and bring the right equipment to start with. Thats not likely either. There may be an attempt to get into it, but they won't without much effort and time spent to do so.

How much thought did you put into this design?

See above

By the way, under California law, that would not be considered a gun safe. CA standard is really not that stringent:

I don't live in Ca., I live in the free state of Arizona:D

cloudcroft, the locks in the first link have the locks I'm using now. Thanks for the suggestion and links. I may fireproof it yet, but like I mentioned, I'm not really concerned about it for the time being. The guns are secured well and thats the most important thing right now.

The large commercial safes would take 2 of them to hold what this one does. That could be something like 3-5K for both vs the 300 I have into this one which holds everything. BTW-the guy who built it is a pro welder, the seems are 3x thicker on ALL welds than they have to be.

Loaded as it is now, it probably weighs 1200 pounds or more.

Brownie

[DogBonz]

I think any safe is better than nothing. If you watch "To Catch a Thief" most burglars focus on grabbing whatever they can as fast as they can and making an exit. They don't often have time to sit down with a blow torch and face shield like in the movies.

Most thieves will not have a torch or a lock pick set. Most thieves are armed with a crowbar or hammer, or most often, they will simply used their foot.

[jakemccoy]

Brownie, that's cool, man. I have to admit, I've never seen anything that comes remotely close to your safe for $300 delivered - nice job. Your friend gave you a steal. You owe him actually. Considering labor, materials and expertise, I'm guessing that safe would sell for quite a bit more than $300 on the open market.

I'm really not here to debate. I was just pointing out what I considered to be weaknesses in the safe. You're convinced those padlocks aren't weaknesses. I disagree, but so what? It's not my safe. What matters is that you're satisfied for what you wish to accomplish.

Here's a guy who went out and did some research and started his own safe company. He reminds of you a bit. You might want to check him out if you decide to get into the safe business. If I were going to get a large, substantial safe, I'd go with this guy over the well-known brands:

http://www.sturdysafe.com

So, don't get me wrong. I'm for the little guy all the way. I own a small business myself. I understand you're NOT trying to start a business here. I was just saying...

[brownie0486]

Those sturdy safes look pretty good, mine is just a metal box compared to those. I had to get the guns into something substantial right away [ I'd let that project go too long ]. Did not want to shell out 3K+ for safes [ I'd need two of the big ones at least :( ]

A friend of mine who's been welding for years tells me he can make one if we can find the steel, he'll look around for some. He's made three for himself in the past. We find the 3/8" steel sheets, I pay for that and he begins the project.

I do owe him, he gets training gratis next time the two of us can get out to the desert. His labor wasn't free but it might as well have been for what he asked. Others could probably get it done for 500.00 or thereabouts I'm sure if they knew a welder.

Considering labor, materials and expertise, I'm guessing that safe would sell for quite a bit more than $300 on the open market.

I'd think so. He doesn't want to make another one if he doesn't have to.:D I asked him about a second one as this one is getting a little crowded.;)

I might put better locks on the safe after awhile, but I've been told by a few I trust that those I have will suffice to keep the average home breaker out and they can't be having bolt cutters put to them due to design.

Brownie

[Eyesac]

Looking to buy a safe myself (as kids are on the way) and the stuff out there is very expensive for not very much, I'm talking $500 for a 8 cubic foot 14 gun fire safe (lowe's). Looks like you got a pretty good deal...

[JMusic]

For 3 hundred bucks I can't critisize. For no more money than you have in that you could put in a dvr and camera set to go with it. That would help in finding the theives quickly if they were successful in getting into it. You still wouldn't have in it what a Liberty or comparable safe would cost at 3/4 the size.

Jim

[CB900F]

Brownie0486;

Hi, I'm a professional locksmith. Your locks are indeed the weak point. No, I'm not going to tell the world how to defeat them just to make a point with you, you'll just have to take my typing for it.

A suggestion about the hinges. Unless there's several, think 4 or 5, passive bolts extending from the inside of the door across the hinged seam, then the hinges are another weak point, but not nearly as much concern as the locks themselves.

I'd suggest replacing the disk types with a guarded shackle type such as the Master 6325. Just a better padlock all the way around.

900F

[brownie0486]

CB900F;

can you give some heads up on where to get the locks you recommend here?

Thanks for thre input

Brownie

[CB900F]

Brownie0486;

Should be available at any decent lockshop. Lockshop, as opposed to someplace that just cuts keys. If there's no good lockshop near you, I'd think the net should be able to source them for you. Try e-bay.

900F

[cloudcroft]

These came up doing a Google search for the Master 6325:

http://www.mrlock.com/eshop/locks/mfg/master/pro_series.html

http://www.drillspot.com/products/94444/MASTER-LOCK_6325_Commercial-Security-Padlock?s=1

http://www.all2ools.com/index.pl/froogle?productid=MAS/6325KA11G104

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A228013%2Cp_3%3A%2425-%2449%2Cp_4%3AMaster%20Lock%2Cp_6%3AAS0K3MKEU5H24&page=1

It looks like some of the other locks in those links I posted earlier.

Make sure the "hasp" the lock goes on is also as strong as it can be...no point in getting a super lock but the "eye" the lock goes into is too soft a steel or too small in diameter...

One reason my SawzAll (with assorted sawblades) is locked up in one of my safes!

-- John D.

[Snake Eyes]

Brownie--

I'm going to disagree with everyone and tell you your hinges are the weak spot--20 minutes with a cutting disc and it won't matter WHAT locks you have on that door.

Hinges should be buried INSIDE the safe.

And: 5/8" sheetrock (drywall) lining the inside of the safe WILL give you 1 hour of fire resistance.

[Baba Louie]

Looks good to moi. Professionals can and will break into everything short of Fort Knox (I saw a movie once where only a super spy thwarted that nefarious plot :D) if they've got the right tools, motivation and adequate time (and I suppose, you not being at home to thwart their nefarious plot).

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Actually, exterior hinges are to be preferred to interior hinges. Provided that an interlocker of some type in used on the hinge side to prevent the door from simply being pulled open with severed hinges. There are several types of interlocker now being used in the industry. Active bolts, passive bolts, interleaved bars, etc.

Interior hinges are almost always, there are the rare exceptions somewhere I'm sure, used in RSC type containers these days. Considering the typical construction of today's RSC's, a set of internal hinges is courting disaster. Sheet metal construction is fairly easy to warp during a move. Get those hinges out of alignment & then the fun begins. Have somebody else attempt to fix the problem also, I have better ways to make money than to try to repair that particular problem.

900F