How gun people are different


PDA






Owen Sparks
June 11, 2007, 03:36 PM
I have noticed over the years that we gun people as a group tend to be a little different than the average person.

Unfortunately, the future of our gun rights lies in the hands of "the average American voter" who is not very passionate about guns one way or the other.

If I had to venture a guess, most people probably feel the same way about guns that you feel about knitting. You know what a knitting is, You have a general concept of how its done, but beyond that, you really don't care. You are totally indifferent because you are just not interested.

Sure there are a few died in the wool pro and anti gun people on both ends of the spectrum who will never change their opinion no matter what, but the vast majority is sitting on a fence somewhere in the middle and can be swayed.

I think the concept that many of us don't get is that the average person tends to default to their emotions when it comes to things that they don't understand because feeling is easier than thinking. The news media in this country (who as a group tend to be left of center) knows this and are masters at manipulating people by their emotions. They do this by skillfully use of language. By using a term like "sniper rifle" or "assault weapon"
rather than scoped deer rifle or modern utility rifle makes these firearms sound sinister. After all who in their right mind would support killing cops or sniping at innocent victims? Uninterested people are just not going to go to the effort to find out the true facts. They just go with their feelings.

Now please, this is ONLY a generalization, but as a group we tend to be a little more logical minded than the average person. We tend to be more interested in THINGS than people.

Most people seem to be interested in personalities. They follow tabloid
gossip and love drama. They are very keen on pop culture and they practically worship celebrities.

Take for example the hottest show in country right now, American Idol.

For many people, their greatest fantasy and dream come true would be to be a celebrity. They seem very concerned with what other people think of them and are very group orientated.

Gun people, not so much. We like things and concepts related to things. We tend to have jobs and hobbies that reflect this. We are more likely to be head of maintenance than head of human recourses. We are more likely to be
engineers or work with computers than be councilors or social workers. We would be surgeons rather than pediatricians or psychiatrists, mow grass rather than wait tables. When we do watch TV it is likely the History channel or Discovery channel. We like to hunt, fish, ride motorcycles and participate rather than watch other people play sports.

I noticed Saturday at the IDPA pistol match that no one said a word about Paris Hilton going back to jail. Even though it was all over the media, no one really seemed to care.

If we are to win this battle for our second amendment rights, we have got to realize that the average person holds the power and we must be aware how critical something as simple as what we call our rifle is.

Please see my thread on MODERN WEAPONS.

OS

If you enjoyed reading about "How gun people are different" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Autolycus
June 11, 2007, 03:49 PM
So do you have any statistics to back up this statement:

Most people seem to be interested in personalities. They follow tabloid
gossip and love drama. They are very keen on pop culture and they practically worship celebrities.

I agree that a lot of people do not care about guns because they have no interest in them. And that people are usually guided by their fear of the unknown but I dont think they are quite the idiot sheep that you are trying to make them out to be while gunowners are more logical minded than nongunowners.

I have seen many who own guns and it does not mean they are special or somehow more logical thinkers. Owning a gun is not really a good way to measure intelligence. As I was saying some of them are morons. If you look around the forums here you will notice that a lot of people rant on about the idiots in their CCW/CHL/CWP classes, the gunshop, the ranges, and other places.

In my experience I have read many posts by people who base their ideas and feelings on inexperience and the fear of the unknown but I do not judge all gunowners by them.

I dont know where you get any basis for the following statement:

Gun people, not so much. We like things and concepts related to things. We tend to have jobs and hobbies that reflect this. We are more likely to be head of maintenance than head of human recourses. We are more likely to be
engineers or work with computers than be councilors or social workers. We would be surgeons rather than pediatricians or psychiatrists, mow grass rather than wait tables. When we do watch TV it is likely the History channel or Discovery channel. We like to hunt, fish, ride motorcycles and participate rather than watch other people play sports.

Do you have any facts to support these claims? I can see gunowners more likely to be hunters because hunting (not all types) may require a gun. But the rest of your statement sounds like nothing but your bias that gunowners are somehow better people or somehow fit a certain mold that you want them to fit.

As for Paris Hilton, well I dont know many people who care but there are a lot. And just because nobody talked about it at a pistol match does not prove anything. I went out to a coffeeshop and there were many people there who did not own guns sitting with me. And guess what, we did not talk about Paris Hilton. So what does that prove? Absolutely nothing except that some people did not talk about Paris Hilton at that particular time.

It seems that on another forum where outside topics are allowed there are a lot of Paris Hilton Discussions.

http://www.glocktalk.com/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=1605364&sortby=&sortorder=

So once again, do you have any facts to support these claims?

Jorg Nysgerrig
June 11, 2007, 03:57 PM
This may come as a shock, but "gun people" are just like everyone else.

Guess what? Some "gun people" did watch American Idol, they did talk about Paris Hilton, work a pediatricians and wait tables. Shockingly enough, lots of "non-gun people" didn't participate any of those activities.

As far as more logical, you simply need to read more posts on gun boards to learn that is not the case.

Quit trying to make it out as though having a gun magically changes you into a different person.

Gun owners are, by and large, average people. Frankly, that is a good thing.

El Tejon
June 11, 2007, 04:02 PM
Ummm, sports? Don't know about all the gun nuts, but actually some gun people have the taste to watch the greatest football team in the history of football--the Indianapolis Colts.:D

Don't know if I agree with your conclusions about the gun culture as a whole, but I do agree that it is important to teach others, especially kids. Each one, teach one.:)

JohnL2
June 11, 2007, 04:04 PM
I think the media is more attuned to covering outrageous individuals and their outrageous behavior. One reason: it gets ratings.

I don't think that they want to take away ALL of our guns. Except for a few leftist lunatics.
But they sure do want to clamp down on the ability to get guns. No doubt about it. Preventative measures seems to drive their ambitions. Hey life is messy, do the best you can.

Oh, Paris who?

Mumwaldee
June 11, 2007, 04:06 PM
Man, you guys are rough on the new guy. He's just looking for some validation...by slamming folks that seek validation. C'mon. :neener:

romma
June 11, 2007, 04:59 PM
greatest football team in the history of football--the Indianapolis Colts.


Pats fan here! Wait till next season... Doubt you'll repeat!

wooderson
June 11, 2007, 05:17 PM
Oh, the vast leaps in logic we see here. If someone watches a show where the contestants may, theoretically, become celebrities, they must be worshipping the celebs or wishing it were them.

(nb: no interest in American Idol because the music isn't my bag - but I do have Top Chef set up as a TiVO season pass)

TallPine
June 11, 2007, 05:42 PM
Gun people, not so much. We like things and concepts related to things.
Well, since guns are "things" you might have a point there.


We tend to have jobs and hobbies that reflect this.
Maybe you should make this into a poll and prove or disprove your point...?

We are more likely to be head of maintenance than head of human recourses.
Well, I'm stuck with being "head of maintenance" around our house ;)
Wife is head of human resources - she "hired" me to fix things.

We are more likely to be engineers or work with computers than be councilors or social workers.
Got me there - I'm a "software engineer."

We would be surgeons rather than pediatricians or psychiatrists,
I can cut up a deer - does that count?

mow grass rather than wait tables.
Mowing grass, cutting trees, building fence ... yeah

When we do watch TV it is likely the History channel or Discovery channel.
Don't watch TV at all except for videos/DVDs. (often John Wayne)

We like to hunt, fish, ride motorcycles and participate rather than watch other people play sports.
Hunting, horseback riding, hiking with my dogs - yep! I've never been to a major sports event, just a few horse shows and rodeos.

wooderson
June 11, 2007, 05:55 PM
The juxtaposition of 'mow grass' and 'wait tables' is a strange one. Waiting tables is, air-conditioning aside, easily as physical a task as landscaping.

When I turned 18 and got my first real waiting gig, I lost 25 pounds in about six weeks just from six to twelve hours of speed-walking every shift.

jlbraun
June 11, 2007, 06:02 PM
I personally don't like the pervasive meme among gun owners that we're somehow "more enlightened" or "sheepdogs" because we own firearms.

Shrinkmd
June 12, 2007, 01:34 AM
We would be surgeons rather than pediatricians or psychiatrists

What you talking about, Willis?

LightningJoe
June 12, 2007, 02:09 AM
It may be just coincidence, but the OP nailed it in my case. Can't speak for the rest of you touchy-feely, subjective, left-brain, couch potatoes.

Alex45ACP
June 12, 2007, 02:11 AM
I personally don't like the pervasive meme among gun owners that we're somehow "more enlightened" or "sheepdogs" because we own firearms.

+1

Some people just have never been exposed to guns, the "gun culture", etc. Up until a few years ago, I didn't really know anything or care about the issue. Mostly because I grew up in a place where no one had them (except criminals, cops, and politicians). It just wasn't something I thought about at all.

However, since I have gotten into it, I have gotten a few other people who were previously very anti-gun and turned them into pro-gunners. Even talked one of them into getting a concealed weapons permit. If every one of us "converted" just a couple other people, we could greatly increase our numbers. That doesn't mean being aggressive about it. It just means setting a good example and providing info and etc. when asked.

xpun8
June 12, 2007, 02:15 AM
Think the OP was on to something, classifying gun owners was not it.
I work in IT, of the 14 colleagues I work with 9 are gun owners, 3 are vocal anti, 1 Canadian and 1 Indian (work visas). Of the 9 gun owners there are 3 hunters, 2 waiting for SHTF, the others are some combination of collector, supporter of RKBA or something else. 2 of the gun owners talked with others about american idol and regularly talk about pop gossip. Of the 3 antis one of them is a robot, could care less about anything outside of work while at work. Drinks at a retirement party brought out the anti in him, otherwise I wouldn't have known. Point-we're all different.

Gun owners are normal everyday people like you and me ;) Seriously, gun owners are all walks of life-hunters, SHTF zombie killers, pagens, Christians, Muslims, gay, straight, pro-life, pro-choice, computer geeks, pierced freaks, college kids, retired sanitation engineers, preachers, teachers, high school dropouts, doctors and lawyers, head bangin' hair band lovers, opera attending, dressed in flannel or a kilt or a tutu. Gun owners are a pretty diverse bunch.

mnrivrat
June 12, 2007, 02:21 AM
Geeze ! It looks like the gun people also tend to overthink what is presented as personal observation and attack it as if someone was trying to present hard fact.

Actualy I think the OP has some good observations in his post.

Now please, this is ONLY a generalization

Looks like some just ingored that ! Anyway, I found some plausable observations in the posting and certainly agree that if we who want to continue to live in a country where the 2nd amendment has any teeth, that we better pay attention to the factors that endanger that right . If not, you will see democracy at it worst ,and the failure of the republic.

Autolycus
June 12, 2007, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by El Tejon:
Ummm, sports? Don't know about all the gun nuts, but actually some gun people have the taste to watch the greatest football team in the history of football--the Indianapolis Colts.

:rolleyes:

I am sorry but that is a lie. Everyone knows the Chicago Bears are the greatest team in football. We only lost because Rex Grossman is a traitor to them.

Either way gunowners are just regular people and some are morons while others are not. It really is the individual and I dont feel that I can stress that enough.

Autolycus
June 12, 2007, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by mnrivrat:

Geeze ! It looks like the gun people also tend to overthink what is presented as personal observation and attack it as if someone was trying to present hard fact.

Actualy I think the OP has some good observations in his post.

Looks like some just ingored that ! Anyway, I found some plausable observations in the posting and certainly agree that if we who want to continue to live in a country where the 2nd amendment has any teeth, that we better pay attention to the factors that endanger that right . If not, you will see democracy at it worst ,and the failure of the republic.

Yes but the impression I got was that the original poster was trying to make gunowners seem as if they are somehow better than the others. The poster tried to make it seem as if gunowners are more educated, hard working, in better physical shape, outdoorsy, alnd had numerous positive (well what is supposed to be positive in my opinion) traits while non gunowners are fat lazy celebrity obsessed loudmouthed uneducated idiots. And this is simply not true.

To me it seemed like the point of this post is to make generalizations about others while simply pumping the self image and egos of gun owners. As a gun owner I would not stand for it.

xpun8
June 12, 2007, 03:16 AM
The 2 things I forgot to mention...former/current military, former/current activist, sports nuts.

And even sports nuts are diverse in that we can't agree which athlete single handedly did the most for his sport while he played. The Great one, of course is the #1, even if he was from North of the border.

Greatest team in football...Indy just won a SB, after how many consecutive failed attempts. The are the greatest until proven otherwise next February, darn Manning. I hate him so much I wish he played for my team. I kind now understand why so many people hated Elway.

1911Tuner
June 12, 2007, 07:02 PM
I dunno...Some of the generalizations and analogies aside...Owen has made some very good points, and I can see what he's angling at here.

Welcome aboard, Owen. Once you've finished running the gauntlet, I think you'll enjoy your stay.

Prince Yamato
June 12, 2007, 07:30 PM
Hmm... I think the best description I've received about gun owners, I received when I shot my first gun at Calibers in Albuquerque, NM.

Me: "I'd like to rent a gun and shoot for the first time"
Clerk: "Ok"
Me: "I'm really not like the stereotypical gun-person"
Clerk: "Most people aren't."


The last line always stuck with me. Not everyone will fit the stereotype. In fact, I think most don't.

wooderson
June 12, 2007, 07:47 PM
The poster tried to make it seem as if gunowners are [...] in better physical shape,

Hard to believe anyone who's been to a gun show or a shooting range would claim that..

lamazza
June 12, 2007, 09:30 PM
It may be just coincidence, but the OP nailed it in my case.
Yup me too.

Doggy Daddy
June 13, 2007, 12:23 AM
It appears to me that the OP's core concept is that:

I think the concept that many of us don't get is that the average person tends to default to their emotions when it comes to things that they don't understand because feeling is easier than thinking.

i.e. We like facts, they like feelings... if you'll permit me that interpretation.

How interesting then, that the very next post requests:

Tecumseh

So do you have any statistics to back up this statement

by way of refuting the original poster's thought!

:D :banghead:

eric.cartman
June 13, 2007, 03:38 PM
Is it just me? Or do all gun owners hear whispers coming from the gun safe in the middle of a dark, cold, quiet night???

:evil:

Autolycus
June 21, 2007, 03:37 PM
Doggy Daddy: I have seen anti's ask for statistics to back that up. It is not the group but the individual. That is the most important thing to remember.

RangerHAAF
June 22, 2007, 10:19 AM
You are right. The general population does not really care one way or the other about guns or our right to carry them. We do and we organize to vote for people who share our beliefs. The anti-gunners are fighting to take them away from us; this concept is just as important to them as keeping them is to us.

The one thing that can kill us and undermine our position is apathy on our part. Right now we gun owners are strong politically and respected but I remember the summer of 1994 and how we were dismissed as being irrelevent to the election in that year. I don't think they'll make that mistake again so soon but you never know when they'll try.

Frandy
June 22, 2007, 10:58 AM
Welcome Owen. Looks like you touched a sensitive nerve here, and we are the better for it. Thanks for the post.

I happen to disagree with your general typing of both gun owners and non-gun owners. I, for one, do not fit your generalization. At the risk of some here never "speaking" to me again:

On the gun side:


I own 11 handguns, 4 rifles, and 2 shotguns.
I shoot at a range to develop my shooting skills.
I carry.
I do think about possible SHTF and TEOTW scenarios.
I defend the 2nd amendment when I hear others criticize or attack my right to bear arms.

BUT...the following things are also true about me:


I am left-leaning in my politics on many social issues.
I care far more about people than things.
I am a social studies teacher type (though I have been in a corporate IT company for years), more likely to associate with psychologists, social workers, booksellers (my wife), human resource folks, fine artists, and "moderates" of all caliber and breed. :evil:
I do have conservative, gun-owning friends, but (and I hate to say this!), they tend to be more suspicious and uncomfortable with me because of my not sharing their total conservative agenda, than are my more moderate and liberal friends that hate guns and my adamant defense of the RKBA. Okay, jump me for this one guys and gals! :D
I am a seafood/vegetarian type. Obviously, I don't hunt.
I do watch the Discovery and History channels, but I also really like American Idol ( Paris Hilton? :barf: So sad.)


So, I don't fit your generalization very well, but as you indicated, it's only a generalization. I welcome a diversity of gunowners. It's the only way we will ever protect our American right to keep and bear arms.

Sheesh...did I really post all this? ;)

Joe Demko
June 22, 2007, 11:08 AM
The OP forgot that gun owners also tend to be handsomer, sexier, and better dressed than non-gun owners.

WeThePeople
June 22, 2007, 11:43 AM
I agree with your theory that most people just don't care. In fact, I think that it applies to almost every issue. You've always got a small batch of people making a bunch of noise (I call them 'screamers') about something that someone else is doing that rarely, if ever, causes any harm to anyone.

Then there are 300 million other people sitting at home watching the boob-tube minding their own business, wanting to be left alone, and not wanting to get involved. They really don't care one way or the other, just as long as no one tries to tell them what to do.

They just sit there until the screamers start screaming about something that they are doing whether it be guns, porn, abortion, religion, sexual preference, SUVs, whatever. Then, a small slice of that group is forced to be involved in the debate. Not because they harmed anyone at all, but because some screamer somewhere decided that they didn't like something.

Eyesac
June 22, 2007, 12:24 PM
+1 Owen. There was a recent article in a gun rag about this very topic...

NeoSpud
June 22, 2007, 12:26 PM
+1 Demko and Frandy

I know I'm "a little bit different" than other people, but that's most likely because I have a mechanical view of nature and care more about understanding the mechanisms at play than the actual occurences (in terms of psychology, sociology, and anthropology). In other words, each society and culture can be broken down into individual interactions which have their own sort of laws. The art of haggling, for example. Personally, I don't really care about sports; instead, I'd rather understand why individuals take pleasure from sports, understand it's rules (including the "unspoken" rules about acceptable conduct), observe the cultural significance of each sport, and the ever-changing interactions between players, teams, fans, news services, etc. I don't find myself emotionally involved in many areas of life, and I don't find it hard to grasp (and empathize with) multiple attitudes and perceptions about any given source of debate. Some people think that I'm cold/aloof, others that I'm noncommittal. I suppose that attempting to be objectively rational will give off that appearance, though it doesn't bother me.

I try not to talk too much, as I'd rather listen and make whatever words I say count. This may be the longest post you read from me. I lurk a lot of forums and post little; I've been a member at one particular forum for 4 years this August and I've not yet broken 150 posts.

I don't believe that I fit the gun-owner stereotype at all. I go to gun shows mostly for the anthropological benefits. I don't think I've ever bought more than $40 worth of ammo or gun parts at a show, though I meander through and talk to vendors for hours each time.

I'm slow to anger and slow to forget.

antsi
June 22, 2007, 12:43 PM
Some of the observations in the original post seemed to have a ring of truth to me.

Like any generalization, there are always going to be exceptions.

FWIW, I do agree with the point about celebrity worship. We have not had any broadcast or cable TV in our home for 3 years. You should give it a try: once you get the constant stream of commercialism and celebrity hype out of your system, you will start to feel like the vast majority of people you meet have been brainwashed.

Generally, I do find that people who hunt, people who own guns, people who have gardens, and people who ride horses tend to be more reality based than the general population. Before somebody chimes in to say they have a great aunt Alice who rides horses and is obsessed with American Idol, please note, I said GENERALLY. I recognize that THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS.

turtlehitman
July 9, 2007, 05:46 PM
I'm weird I admit it.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 9, 2007, 06:03 PM
...We like things and concepts related to things. We tend to have jobs and hobbies that reflect this. Not necessarily...

We are more likely to be head of maintenance than head of human resources. Had to think a bit about this one... If those were the only two positions available, I'd take HR and delegate all the PC Crapola...

We are more likely to be engineers or work with computers than be councilors or social workers. Yep, but I really dislike most engineers...

We would be surgeons rather than pediatricians or psychiatrists, yup, not much on kids, and I have an urge to slap people with "problems" that we all have to cope with...(maybe cutting on them would work :evil:)

mow grass rather than wait tables. Yup

When we do watch TV it is likely the History channel or Discovery channel. Okay....

We like to hunt, fish, ride motorcycles and participate rather than watch other people play sports.Not much on hunting, I live to fish, and love to participate...

BBQJOE
July 9, 2007, 06:35 PM
When it comes to gun owners, I think we can all safely generalize that they:
1. Own guns.
2. Probably own bullets as well.

If they are CCW permitted we can probably safely assume that they:
Believe in the right to protect themselves and/or others with firearms.

But I thank you for thinking I am a better human being for owning guns.

Flyboy
July 9, 2007, 10:37 PM
First, let me say that the Owen's description pretty much fits me to a "t."

That said, I'd like to turn his observation on its ear. I posit that he's confused correlation and causation, resulting in a hypothesis that's almost perfectly backwards.

Consider: gun owners are not more likely to be logical, creative, thoughtful, self-reliant, independent people; rather, what if I assert that the logical, independent person is more likely to be a gun owner?

I started pondering this theory when I noticed how many pilots we have on the board, and thought about it in light of a study I read that claimed some 90% of pilots are, to some degree or another, control freaks (personally, I doubt the study--I think it's nearer 98%). I really started thinking about it when I thought about how many pilots I know have concealed carry permits.

Gun ownership--and, particularly, carrying a gun--is perhaps the ultimate expression of self-determination and self-reliance. Gun owners have a device that has the potential to cause great damage, and yet wield it in a way that rarely causes injury or unintended consequences. Owen mentions surgeons--how different are a gun and a scalpel? Both are tools that, used carelessly, can cause tremendous damage, and yet, are typically used with skill to accomplish a desirable objective. For that matter, consider the logger's chainsaw: again, huge destructive potential, and yet, used with precision, bring down tree after tree without injury.

Gun owners are tool users, and masters of power. We wield our power just as a surgeon wields a scalpel: with deliberate intent, to achieve our desired aim precisely, without undue damage.

And yes, we enjoy our exercise of power. There's nothing shameful in that: it's the human condition. Think back on our history: conquering the sea, the air. We turned exceptionally powerful combustible fuels--bordering on explosives--into engines that let us traverse waterways, continents, the air, even space itself. Gun owners use combustibles and power recreationally, and our highest prize--the Nobel--is named after a man who harnessed the raw power of explosives for constructive ends.

So I again assert that gun owners aren't those people, but rather that those people are gun owners. We use guns as a tool, and we use them as recreation, but it all comes from our desire--nay, our inborn craving--to control ourselves, our environment, our destinies. Owning guns is just an expression of our close relationship with the desires and aspirations that have spurred on humanity since the dawn of time.

pcosmar
July 9, 2007, 10:53 PM
That is interesting, Owen's description almost describes me, mostly.
But I have no guns.

pacodelahoya
July 9, 2007, 10:55 PM
I'm weird I admit it.

Not, me, I'm normal, everyone else is weird.:p

Joe Demko
July 9, 2007, 11:08 PM
This thread needs a pivot man.

ConstitutionCowboy
July 9, 2007, 11:20 PM
Deleted

goings_51
July 9, 2007, 11:30 PM
Geeze ! It looks like the gun people also tend to overthink what is presented as personal observation and attack it as if someone was trying to present hard fact.
+1

The guy does make some good points. I think we should quit arguing with each other and try to get more people interested. I don't know anyone who has been properly introduced to shooting that has gone on to become an anti-gunner.

SoCalShooter
July 9, 2007, 11:38 PM
Is it just me? Or do all gun owners hear whispers coming from the gun safe in the middle of a dark, cold, quiet night???


Really? I thought I was the only one.

Back on topic however, gun owners ARE everyday Americans what we have a problem with is the media and the damage they do to us everyday. We have to all take friends and family to the range and help them get interested. We are not different from them, we just own guns thats all.

Black Adder LXX
July 9, 2007, 11:40 PM
I'm actually more of a people person. I love teaching new shooters, blah blah...

And the Dolphins are the best, they just hide it by losing a lot...

gyp_c2
July 10, 2007, 12:24 AM
...you guyz are nutz...
I never listen to the voices coming from the safe...But if I did, it wouldn't bother me...bother me...bother me...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

If you enjoyed reading about "How gun people are different" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!