Accurate & Low Noise Centerfire


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Triple S
June 12, 2007, 10:11 PM
I would like a new rifle for plinking, varmint hunting, and fun shooting out to 225 yards. The rare coyote might be the largest animal I would shoot with this gun. The main characteristics that I am looking for are:

1) Accurate (sub MOA, 3 shot groups @ 100 yards)
2) Low noise (.223 and .204 are too loud)
3) Shoot Factory Ammo

I am thinking about the .22 Hornet, .17 Rem Fireball, .221 Fireball, and .222 Remington. This gun will more than likely have at least a 23-24 inch barrel, so muzzle blast should not be too bad. BTW, I want to stick with a centerfire. I am open too your ideas if I have forgotten about a cartridge. For now, I am leaning towards the .222 or .17 Rem Fireball. Any other ideas or do you think one of these is better than the other? The hornet seems like a good idea, but I am worried about shooting it past 150 yards.

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destrux
June 12, 2007, 11:26 PM
The noise thing is going to be hard to overcome. If you are able, a .223 rifle with a suppresor may be your best bet. The only downside being the extra cost and the paperwork... and the wait. Plus, fun shooting in many of those calibers is going to be expensive. If you want a very accurate gun within 150 yards and knockdown power isnt needed for anything larger than a groundhog (or a coyote at under 75 yards) then you may want to consider a savage 93 with the varmint barrel chanbered in .17HMR. I know you said centerfire, but the HMR is very powerful for a rimfire and might be worth checking out anyway..

PercyShelley
June 12, 2007, 11:40 PM
In terms of quiet, a barrel of sufficient volume will itself act as a suppressor. That's the key here too, by the way; the ratio of the volume of the case (or, more accurately, the volume of powder to be burned) to the volume of the barrel.

Thus, for a given powder capacity and barrel length, a higher caliber gun will be quieter.

.300 whisper, even without a suppressor, is relatively quiet and very accurate. I don't know what rifles are available though.

Zak Smith
June 12, 2007, 11:43 PM
I agree with the suggestion for a suppressor. Nothing else in a supersonic centerfire rifle cartridge will be "close to" hearing-safe.

-z

PercyShelley
June 12, 2007, 11:46 PM
I agree with the suggestion for a suppressor. Nothing else in a supersonic centerfire rifle cartridge will be "close to" hearing-safe.


While this is unequivocally true, I wonder just how quiet you could get, say, a .45 ACP carbine without a suppressor that had a 30 inch barrel.

Loanshark
June 13, 2007, 04:35 AM
Percy your a better shot than me if you can hit a barn @ 225 yards with a .45 acp with any length barrel...

PercyShelley
June 13, 2007, 11:05 AM
Percy your a better shot than me if you can hit a barn @ 225 yards with a .45 acp with any length barrel...

Oh snap!

Fair enough.

Some of the specialized subsonic cartridges like .500 phantom are supposed to have very good inherent accuracy, even as far away as 400 meters, but there would definitely be a lot of compensation for drop. Leading a moving target would be very different too.

For pistol caliber subsonic carbines though your nearest competitor isn't a varmint rifle, it's more like a crossbow.

Gordon
June 13, 2007, 11:24 AM
The .17 ackley hornet is accurate, works to 225 yards and is about 2/3 as loud as a Hornet IMHO,

Triple S
June 13, 2007, 04:46 PM
I realize that "quiet" is relative, but I do want a centerfire without a lot of blast or boom. I have used a few hornets and .222's and they seem to have more of a "POP" than a "crack/boom" like a .223 or 22-250+. Barrel length will have a lot to do with this, but it seems as though the lesser 22 centerfires and the .17 Rem Fireball (I am guessing b/c i have not shot one) make less noise. As much as I like the idea of a supressor, I want to stay away from these. I want to keep this more simple and not have too worry about legal papers and such. I acutally thought about the .300 whisper even w/out the suppressor, but I am checking on the ballistics. Again this gun, will have at least a 24 inch barrel.

aspade
June 13, 2007, 06:08 PM
It's not a centerfire, but thought about a 17 HMR? I would hesitate to shoot a coyote with one.

Gordon
June 13, 2007, 07:30 PM
8.8 grains of 2400 under a 25 grain Hornady gives 3200 fps in a 26inch .17 Ackley Martini with 3/4 MOA to 200 yards. That is much more powerful than a .17 HMR and doesn't sound any louder than my rebarrelled 18" 10-22 .17HMR;)

the naked prophet
June 13, 2007, 08:36 PM
How about a .45-70? Never fired one, but I've been told it's more of a "whoosh" and very accurate.

Navy_Guns
June 14, 2007, 09:35 AM
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/357_magnum_rifle.html

How about a .357 Magnum rifle? It won't be sub MOA but a 158 grain hollow point at over 1,100 fps @ 200 yards would still put a world of hurt on a coyote. With low power scope I bet you could hit one at that range, too.

Michael Courtney
June 14, 2007, 10:37 AM
I load a .223 down to 2600 FPS or so with roughly 12 grains of Blue Dot behind a 40 grain Vmax. I've used this load to shoot varmints out of a bedroom window without waking sleeping children in the house. It's pretty quiet and gives 1 MOA accuracy, so it should be good to 200 yards.

I've never shot a 22 hornet, but it should be very comparable in volume level. I also agree with the above poster that a .300 Whisper will be very quiet, even when pushing a 125 grain bullet to 2500 FPS. I think there is a factory load in this range, but I've forgotten who loads it.

In general, longer barrels are better if you want to be quiet, and in these cartridges a custom Contender or Encore barrel about 30" long would be a good bet for accuracy.

Michael Courtney

lgsracer
June 14, 2007, 02:14 PM
My vote for the 221 fireball, but I own one. It is a CZ 527. The caliber is easy to reload and you can go subsonic using pistol powders. Check out this page:

http://www.accuratereloading.com/221rfb.html

Sunray
June 14, 2007, 02:57 PM
"...with a suppresor(sic)..." They're illegal for hunting in Florida. They're illegal for hunting nearly everywhere. Read the Florida hunting regs.
"....222 Remington..." It's nearly the same as the .223. With like bullets the .223 has a slight edge though.
A .22 Hornet will do, but it's energy is marginal past 100 yards. The .223 has more than twice the energy at 200 yards and shoots flatter. So does the .222.

Eyesac
June 14, 2007, 03:07 PM
I'll be honest, what you're asking for I don't think really exists. You want performance and no sound. I say pick a cartridge and get a silencer (I know "the paperwork, the paperwork", it's not that bad).

Art Eatman
June 14, 2007, 03:15 PM
If you handload, the .223 oughta work just fine. Download as suggested by Michael Courtney. Otherwise, I'd probably go with either the .222 or at least try out the .17 HMR.

I've watched the .17 Mach II make clean kills on prairie dogs at 200 yards, FWIW; it's some 400 ft/sec less than the HMR...

Art

Gordon
June 14, 2007, 04:14 PM
Well the .177 bore seems to emit much less noise than a .22, I don't know the physics behind it, but suspect the frequency is moved higher. It certainly doesn't boom like a light 45-70. Yes you have supersonic crack which the light .38 specials in a Marlin .357 does not have. I use those loads to slaughter sheep and goats for thier quietness. They do POP about as load as a .17small case but no sonic crack. They also are played by 50 yards. I tried ,44spl light loads in a .44mag rifle. With 320 grain bullets at about 1000 fps out of my Rem 788, I have potted deer in my orchard at 100 feet. Once again it is a mortar over 50 yards and is louder than the .38 and we can't have cans in kali!. I have an old Stevens Favorite rechambered to .32S&W long. With the light 1 grain bullseye loads at about 650 fps with 90 grain bullets it is real quiet, like a .22lr low noise remington load, and packs a heck of a lot more wallop for 50 yards.:)

Triple S
June 14, 2007, 05:28 PM
"...with a suppresor(sic)..." They're illegal for hunting in Florida. They're illegal for hunting nearly everywhere. Read the Florida hunting regs. Sunray is right on.
Again the silencer would be nice, but it would be illegal in case I ever wanted to "hunt" with it. As great as it would be, I will stay away from a silencer. A 26" barrel in .222 or .221 fireball might just be the thing for my Encore! You .223 guys are right on, but with factory ammo, they are louder. I am intrigued by the new factory loaded .17 Rem Fireball, but I have not heard enough about it to be certain. I am familiar with the problems .17 Rem shooters have faced and do not know if I want to chance it on this rifle.....BTW, if you have not tried them, the TC custom shop does a great job. I have ordered a couple of barrels from them and I am very pleased with their performance.

trstafford
June 16, 2007, 04:14 AM
Try a 6mm PPC if you handload or a 22 PPC

Outlaws
June 16, 2007, 11:05 AM
Percy your a better shot than me if you can hit a barn @ 225 yards with a .45 acp with any length barrel...

I shoot at 6' +/- diamond plate at 300 yards all the time with my 1911 and P90....while standing up too. Using 7 and 8 round mags, I hit the thing probably every 1.5 magazines, but there are still a good deal of shots in the very near vicinity. The key is having a mountain for a berm so that you have something to use as an aiming point because a 45 at 300 yards needs a slight hold over. :D
I am looking for an adjustable sight that allows for some serious compensation. The problem is I don't think many people have even considered shooting that far with a pistol. I bet a lot more could do it if they tried though.

Art Eatman
June 16, 2007, 11:40 AM
Let's don't wander off into the world of pistols, okay?

:), Art

Reginhild
June 16, 2007, 05:53 PM
How about a silenced air rifle - no special tax stamp needed. The Airforce Talon SS comes in .177 and .22 calibers:

http://www.airforceairguns.com/talonss.html

http://www.airforceairguns.com/images_new/talonss_angle_lg.jpg

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