is this legal?


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colt.45
June 13, 2007, 03:26 AM
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/souptonuts1/index.asp in the link, some guy is making an ak-47 reciever. i thought a license of some sort was needed to manufacture a working firearm (reciever). if i am mistaken, then i might want to do this! i have almost all of the things i would need to make my own ak-47 reciever. all i would need is the flats, the die to push them through and a parts kit. (where do i get a parts kit?)

dont worry, im not going to go and order the die and start making illegal weapons, that would be foolish. but i have to ask, do you think it is within a reasonable range of effort and money to try and make my own ak-47 reciever?

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Guns R Tools
June 13, 2007, 03:33 AM
Many states you can make receiver out of flats as long as its for personal use and not for sale.

I don't know what the deal is with serializing though.

kingpin008
June 13, 2007, 03:41 AM
As long as you follow certan rules, it is indeed totally legal. In fact, there are more than a few small manufacturer's of AR-15 components that host "build days" where they'll sell you partially completed recievers, and allow you to use their equipment to finish them. As long as you are the only one who does the actual, physical bending and shaping required, then it's totally legal for them to "loan" you use of their equipment and assistance in performing the work.

Good way to get a cheap, personal, un-papered (if that's what you want) rifle that's special, because you made it with your own hands. And legal to boot!

ArchAngelCD
June 13, 2007, 05:44 AM
colt.45,
Cope's is a great source for AK-47 flats and a lot of other AK parts as well. Their prices are very good and they are nice people to deal with. Give them a look... http://www.copesdist.com/ak47.htm

GigaBuist
June 13, 2007, 11:05 AM
In fact, there are more than a few small manufacturer's of AR-15 components that host "build days"

The only one I ever heard of doing this was KT Ordnance, and that whole ATF Raid last summer kinda put the kibosh on his business.

Who else does them?

dstorm1911
June 13, 2007, 11:09 AM
start here

akfiles.com

go to the gunsmithing/build it yourself forum and actually if your only going to build 1 gun then your better off getting a 100% reciever from NODAKSPUDs for $55 shipped they are fully heat treated and considered the absolute best ya can get, to form your own reciever ya will need a jig and a press the jib costs $250 the press ya can get at hardor freight ya will also need a long rivet jig to install the center support $60 or........ just get the $55 reciever thats ready to go. Rommy "G" kits from J&G sales are turning out to be some of the best at $99.00 ea they are the earlier pre 83 produced ones which are a lil better fit and finish wise to the post 83 recievers, ya will also need a rivet set $10 ya only want to use the Bulgarian rivets the best place for them is ak-builder.com they also carry all your jigs etc...

I build these things everyday, the kits are starting to dry up now as nomore have been imported since the BATF started enforcing the barrel ban so get em while ya still can

MudPuppy
June 13, 2007, 05:22 PM
Legal varies from location to location, but its legal according to the ATF to build your own firearms. Just make sure you're all legal in your specific area.

You can't build restricted firearms, like Full Auto. Short barreled rifles still need the proper tax stamp, etc.

use google for "home building AK-47" and grab a cold one and get ready to read all night.

But completely agree with dstorm1911 on the nodak spud DCI recievers if you're only building one or two (but I can't imagine folks only building one or two--I mean, you're going to want to do a romy first cause it's cheapest and you're not hosed if you mess it up, but then you'll want a polish underfolder...and then a Tantal in 5.45, right? And once you start doing 5.45s, you'll have to do a bulgy. And speaking of bulgy's, you'll want a krink. Ooh, and the Yugo krinks are nice too, a bit different. And then, the Yugos with their beefy RPK trunnions, got to do one of those, well, two if you do a fixed stock and an underfolder. Oh, oh--forgot about RPKs, you want one of those Romy RPKs. And a Yugo, finned barrels on those are cool. What about an RPK-74? Go nicely with your other Tantals and Krinks and such. And surely you'll want a 5.56? Those Yugo M90/95s are sweeeet.)

Well, what are you waiting for? :D

colt.45
June 13, 2007, 06:04 PM
thanks everyone, but i have a few more questions for you to answer.
will i have to deal through my ffl to get the premade recievers? if i do build one from scratch, will they be transferrable or will they have to go down with the ship(me)?

other than that, i think im gonna be hooked. like mud puppy said lol

colt.45
June 13, 2007, 06:10 PM
oh and one more thing. what about the 80% recievers. i know they can be shipped to my house but can they be made without a milling machine? or will files and a drill press work? this seems like the easiest way for me.

MudPuppy
June 13, 2007, 06:21 PM
The DCI, Eubanks, Global Trades and Ohio Ordanance recievers all require a FFL transfer. (I tend forget this, as a board member here in Austin does $5 tranfers--and is a heck of a nice guy, to boot.)

An 80% comes in a couple of different flavors. One is an unbent blank that'll require the aforementioned jig and press to complete. It has the trigger holes ready and magwell dimples. (however, during the bending, the trigger holes--located right near the bend--can elongate, leading to potential function issues. Some are undersize so that they can be properly reemed to the right dimension afterwards.) The other type is a fully bent shell, but with no holes (that's pretty much the rule, either holes or bends--once you have both, its a reciever, until then its just "metal".) The fully bent ones require careful drilling of hammer and trigger pin holes and cutting the upper receiver rails.

One other, even rarer 80% is a "fold by hand" that then requires a re-inforcement weld on the seams. That seems like a fair bit of extra work unless you've been welding since 9th grade FFA or something.

Both 80% type require installing a center rivet and welding (i guess you could bolt them, dunno??) lower rails. And the holes should be heat treated, as well as the extractor.

I've tried my hand at bending and prebent blanks--to me the $55 for a nodak DCI receiver is worth it. (and I build lots and could save $30 a build on them if I just did the receivers...not worth it. But I build them to shoot them, others take pride in "doing it all". Rightly so, too. But not I!)

azhunter12
June 13, 2007, 06:46 PM
I don't think so but that depends on some states.

dstorm1911
June 13, 2007, 09:52 PM
yes the 100% recievers have to go through an FFL, however they are far and beyond the better deal to get ya started, as they are completally heat treated (much tougher than your spot heat treated 80%) they are predrilled for the Rommy trunions, it takes me 45 minutes to put each Rommy "G" kit together from demilled kits, but then I've been doing it for 16 years as of last month...... we have all the equipment to do our own recievers at the shop as thats what we do........ build guns from antique restoration of machine guns to brand new machine guns and everything in between, but when it comes to Rommy builds it just is not cost effective for me to stamp the recievers then heat treat (I won't use a spot heat treated reciever so full heat treat is the only option ...... just like the original Russian specs call for) in the end... I've tied up 4 times the shop time in making a reciever than it takes me to actually assemble the rifle...

I did a bare bones rivet build tutorial for Surplus rifles ya can browse here

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=25304

Thats useing a NODAK SPUDS NDS-3 reciever, I made a point of not useing any of the big toys at least nothing that couldn't be substituted by the home builder with say a drill press where I use a mill or a basic 12 ton manual press where I use a 30 ton Iron worker etc... I even restricted myself to a dremel tool! doin that build at home assuming ya have a press already (ya need one for sure if your going to be gettin hooked on AK building) the rest of the tools will set ya back bout $100 or less as most can be improvised including the press, now to do an 80% ya will be needing to invest about $400+ in tools and only YOU can do any of the work, ya cannot legally take it out to a shop to have rails welded or heat treating done etc....... no buddy whos a welder to do this or that it must be completed by you...... A guy last year actually got turned into the feds by his ex wife cause he was havin his friend down the street stamp all their recievers and then he would do the welding another friend did the riveting......... the alphabet boys got em in seperate rooms and none of the three could accuratly describe each others steps to the completed 20 rifles...........


With a 100% its already a gun so anyone can help out etc.. most of the builds I do are actually other peoples kits they ship into the shop and we just order the recievers directly to us so the only transfer is to the FFL they have it shipped to no extra fees and the $55 includes shipping from NODAK your only additional fee will be what your FFL charges ya to recieve it etc..

BTW I'm in Tucson AZ. what state are ya in? if ya go to AKfiles ya will find there are members in most every state willing to help out new builders with advice tools etc...

PAC 762
June 15, 2007, 09:18 PM
I would suggest doing your first on a 100% receiver to get the hang of it, then find someone in your area with a press and jig and do another with a flat. It is much more satisfying to build on a flat.... a lot more work, but you'll be much prouder of the end result and have no silly numbers defacing the receiver.

MachIVshooter
June 16, 2007, 12:49 AM
will i have to deal through my ffl to get the premade recievers?

Yes. The reciever is the gun as far as BATFE is concerned.

if i do build one from scratch, will they be transferrable or will they have to go down with the ship(me)?

The simple answer is you own it for life. That said, you can file with ATF to have a S/N assigned and make the firearm transferable. I don't remember which form it is.

However, I can't imagine wanting to part with something you've poured blood and sweat into for what amounts to a pittance. Building a gun from scratch is incredibly labor-intensive. I've only done some very basic stuff, and it still takes hours on end.

PAC 762
June 16, 2007, 11:10 PM
The simple answer is you own it for life. That said, you can file with ATF to have a S/N assigned and make the firearm transferable. I don't remember which form it is.

Nope. It just needs to be marked in accordance with federal regs. Nothing to file with the ATF. There is an ATF letter floating around all over the internet. Search the home-building sites, like gunco.

However, you cannot build with the intent to sell. If you build one for personal use, and later choose to sell, that's OK. If you build with the intent to sell and aren't licensed, then you will receive a paid vacation at club fed.

That being said, I won't sell a home-built receiver. I'll refrain from bad-mouthing the atf... suffice to say I err on the side of caution when dealing with any potential gray areas.

PAC 762
June 16, 2007, 11:15 PM
Here's the language: http://www.gunco.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2737

Edit... here's the scanned letter: http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/AK/docs/legal/sellingbuilds.htm

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