To buy or not: Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) AR-15


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armed85
June 13, 2007, 05:07 AM
I have the money for an LMT upper and lower, but I don't want to waste my money if I can get the same performance from a different manufacturer. I'm considering buying a Smith & Wesson M&P15 rather than the more expensive LMT.

LMT uses 4150 barrel steel, proof tests every barrel and bolt, uses magnetic particle inspection of barrel and bolt, has parkerizing under the front sight base, and shot-peens the bolt during manufacturing. As far as I know, Smith & Wesson uses 4140 barrel steel and forgoes these steps to save money.

I'm not sure if the corners Smith & Wesson cuts to save money matter to me. On the one hand, if something does go wrong, S&W has good customer service. On the other hand, I do not like using customer service even if it is good customer service.

There's a $200 to $250 different between the two. Am I really gaining anything with LMT?

This carbine will fire 4,000 rounds per year.

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HorseSoldier
June 13, 2007, 10:38 AM
I've never handled an LMT lower, but have gotten my hands on a number of their uppers and other components (bolts, etc.). The workmanship seems utterly top end, with solid, well built products.

Gary G23
June 13, 2007, 10:45 AM
LMT uses 4150 barrel steel and M4 feed ramps. S&W doesn't. Your money. You decide.

ChrisMG
June 13, 2007, 09:01 PM
I *think* the M&P15T has some LMT parts on it but I'm not positive.

Anyone know what warranty LMT offers on their firearms? My M&P15T is only one year...

CDignition
June 13, 2007, 09:47 PM
You will not get the same performance from anyone else...buy the LMT

RockyMtnTactical
June 13, 2007, 09:59 PM
There are some that can match the LMT in quality... none that exceed it though...

I would go with the LMT. If you are considering the S&W... skip it and get a Stag instead, they make a better bang for the buck.

Gordon
June 13, 2007, 10:56 PM
I chose the LMT 14"(with perm. fixed Vortex for 16 .2") light barreled M-4 ramped 1in 7" upper with rails to put on my registered Colt Delta HBAR lower. I have NEVER had a problem with this one yet.Have put 2400 rounds thru it cleaning at about 600 rounds since the first 200. It holds 2 minutes with British green tip and the 3x ACOG on it- plenty good. I LOVE IT, it cost a grand with their M-16 bolt assembly.

ssr
June 13, 2007, 11:07 PM
Get the LMT.

Besides, the M&P moniker just bugs me. I know it has history with S&W, but Military and Police? What about us poor civilians? Oh, they make it for civilians, they just call it Military and Police? Just irritates me.

glockman19
June 13, 2007, 11:39 PM
If those are your choices then get the LMT.

10-Ring
June 14, 2007, 12:44 AM
LMT! Get the LMT! ;)

armed85
June 14, 2007, 07:55 AM
There's not a whole lot of dissenting opinions.

dissenting, I thought Smith & Wesson has a lifetime warranty with everything they make.

ChrisMG
June 14, 2007, 11:05 AM
dissenting, I thought Smith & Wesson has a lifetime warranty with everything they make.

That's what I thought too however the manual that came with my M&P15T says one year warranty. I'm trying to figure out what LMT offers in the warranty department, if anyone knows I'd appreciate the info.

Frandy
June 14, 2007, 12:29 PM
Yup, the Smith warranty is one year. I was at a local dealer yesterday, looking at the M&Ps. I asked the salesman about the Smith lifetime warranty, and he infomed me that the rumor is widespread on this, but it simply is not the case. One year. Period.

So, I put down the Smith and bought the Colt. :D

Eyesac
June 14, 2007, 12:31 PM
LMT.

Besides, the M&P moniker just bugs me. I know it has history with S&W, but Military and Police? What about us poor civilians? Oh, they make it for civilians, they just call it Military and Police? Just irritates me

+1

S&w sold their souls to the devil a long time ago in my book.

Gordon
June 14, 2007, 04:20 PM
LMT makes good on their product, as long as it is their product's issue- period, with no time limits I think (according to their warranty statement I have)

Don't Tread On Me
June 14, 2007, 04:49 PM
I voted LMT. It is the closer to true mil-spec than the S&W. S&W is made by Stag, which is a quality AR and everyone loves them, but LMT is a little bit better. The only thing equal or better, is the Colt 6920. That's it. Really, that's it.

Since you don't like to use warranty or service, then it is a no-brainer. There's not much that can go wrong with an AR, and with literally an armorer's wealth of knowledge about the AR here and on AR15.com - any problem you have can be diagnosed and fixed relatively easily and on the cheap. If anything significant is wrong with it (like improperly drilled gas port) or something like that - the manufacturer or the dealer will swap it out. That's why I like the AR. I can fix 98% of what might go wrong with it myself and it's easy. The other 2% would be a manufacturing defect that would be detected from day 1. So it is irrelevant and will not come into play.

armed85
June 14, 2007, 06:00 PM
I spoke with LMT sales department on the phone and their complete rifles carry a lifetime limited warranty. I didn't think to ask about their uppers and lowers. The person I talked to also said LMT manufactures 90% of what goes into their rifles and carbines.

I found a complete 16" M4 carbine today at a local gun store for $1,250 with a SOPMOD Buttstock and tactical adjustable rear sight.

It has a collaspible stock that I can have a strong cheek weld on. I didn't know one exists. I was going to go with a carry handle rear sight, but that'll work just as well.

$1,350 would be the total with sales tax. It's more than I priced out for an upper and lower, but I didn't include those two upgrades.

Tough decision. I do want it though :-)

ChrisMG
June 14, 2007, 10:08 PM
jragsdale, thanks for calling about the warranty, looks like LMT is a no-brainer (although on the cheaper end of things Stag also offers a lifetime warranty) over S&W. I am glad I bought my S&W though, good way to get into ARs I suppose. :)

armed85
June 14, 2007, 10:11 PM
I actually raised the price up to $1,400 when I include 5 AR-15 30 Round Magazines.

At $18.00 per mag I'm going to get 'em while they're cheap and before the next ban.

The price just keep going up and up and up.

Where'd I put that credit card :what:

Outlaws
June 14, 2007, 10:41 PM
Besides, the M&P moniker just bugs me. I know it has history with S&W, but Military and Police? What about us poor civilians? Oh, they make it for civilians, they just call it Military and Police? Just irritates me

I don't much care for LMT because they are on the Colt business plan...Government before Civies. :barf: There are other makers out there who make good quality and don't require that holier than thou attitude.

armed85
June 14, 2007, 11:51 PM
Really?

I have heard all the stories about Colt Defense and have dealt with the rudeness on the phone with their "customer service."

LMT was professional and friendly on the phone and they publish a civilian catalog. Colt Defense has no catalog of civilian products.

Colt Defense labels all products and rollmarks lower receivers as "LE and military only." LMT sells civilian lower receivers without "LE and military only" rollmarks.

If it matters, LMT calls their civilian rifles, carbines, and lowers "Defender."

To clarify, the Colt LE6920 is manufactured by Colt Defense and not Colt's Manufacturing Company. Colt's Mfg. manufactures 1911s and politically correct civilian AR-15s.

I would like to hear of your personal experiences with LMT.

Outlaws
June 15, 2007, 01:39 AM
Really?

I have heard all the stories about Colt Defense and have dealt with the rudeness on the phone with their "customer service."

LMT was professional and friendly on the phone and they publish a civilian catalog. Colt Defense has no catalog of civilian products.

Colt Defense labels all products and rollmarks lower receivers as "LE and military only." LMT sells civilian lower receivers without "LE and military only" rollmarks.

If it matters, LMT calls their civilian rifles, carbines, and lowers "Defender."


I never said they were rude on the phone. They do not sell complete rifles. Only parts. It might be splitting hairs, but its hairs that shouldn't have to be split in the first place.

Lewis Machine & Tool Company (LMT) was founded in 1980 to provide the US military, law enforcement and government agencies with high quality weapons, components, and modular weapon systems.
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For the past 25 years, Lewis Machine & Tool Company (LMT) has strategically partnered with various branches of the United States Armed Forces, government agencies and other firearm manufacturers to design, develop and test multiple systems and sub-systems.
--------
Recognized domestically and internationally as a designer and manufacturer of high quality military and government agency firearms and accessories.

Government first.

armed85
June 15, 2007, 01:50 AM
They sell complete rifles and with a lifetime warranty to boot. A few gun stores have them in my area. Ask around in your area.

I personally dealt with rudeness on the phone with Colt Defense. I wasn't talking about you or what you said.

My point was that they personally treated me the way I as a civilian want to be treated by a gun company (though technically I'm enlisted in the military, but I'm in a civilian role and will use this carbine for non military purposes).

If your personal experience with LMT was different, I'd like to hear it.

armed85
June 15, 2007, 03:52 PM
I bought the LMT along with 4 30 Rounds Magazines. The SOPMOD buttstock is really nice and the trigger is really, really nice. The trigger has no creep and a crisp break at 5 lbs.

The carbine is called "Defender 2000" and not "Defender."

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=59451&stc=1&d=1181936893

rangerruck
June 16, 2007, 12:17 AM
persnally, with all the looking and reading i've done, the lmt seems to be just about as good as it gets.

dm1333
June 16, 2007, 06:05 PM
I don't much care for LMT because they are on the Colt business plan...Government before Civies. There are other makers out there who make good quality and don't require that holier than thou attitude.

Everyone is welcome to their opinions but not liking LMT because they were founded with the intent of providing military and police agencies with weapons seems silly. Have they ever treated you badly? Have you ever dealt with them? I'm jusst curious if you have anything to base your dislike on other than that they provide .gov with weapons?

Outlaws
June 16, 2007, 06:24 PM
Everyone is welcome to their opinions but not liking LMT because they were founded with the intent of providing military and police agencies with weapons seems silly.

Why does it seem silly?

ChrisMG
June 16, 2007, 09:46 PM
Everyone is welcome to their opinions but not liking LMT because they were founded with the intent of providing military and police agencies with weapons seems silly. Have they ever treated you badly? Have you ever dealt with them? I'm jusst curious if you have anything to base your dislike on other than that they provide .gov with weapons?

Outlaws is right, if you get right down to it why should there be any preference when selling firearms between the government (federal or state) and the civilian? There shouldn't be any and, in fact civilians should have the preference. On the other hand I think LMT is doing a lot better job serving the civilian market than say, Colt or HK.

According to the Constitution if I have $50 million to spend on a whim I should be able to drive around in an Abrams if I want.

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