Question for those in Calif.


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tuckerdog1
June 13, 2007, 02:49 PM
It's been awhile back, but I was buying a revolver at a gunshop in Dallas. In conversation with the owner, he told me some gun he had on the wall was legal to sell in California, but the exact gun in another finish was not. In other words, a blued Desert Eagle ( just as an example, don't really know the status of the DE in Calif ), might be okay to sell, but a stainless might not. He said firearms have to pass some tests, and manufacturers have to submit examples of the gun in every version to get every version the okay. And some makers don't submit "every" version.

Sounds pretty stupid to me. But this is Calif. Is this true?

Tuckerdog1

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anotherKevin
June 13, 2007, 02:58 PM
As far as I'm aware, yes it is. There is a list of "approved" handguns, and the mfrs. do indeed have to submit each one to it.

MrTuffPaws
June 13, 2007, 03:06 PM
Yep it is true. All guns are submitted by make and model to be safety tested. This includes barrel length, finish, etc. Basically, if it has a different part number then it has to be submitted for testing before certified for sale.

Keep in mind that it only applies to handguns. Long guns are a different story.

Neil San Diego
June 13, 2007, 03:33 PM
Yep, its true.

FYI, here are the listed handguns:
http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

tuckerdog1
June 13, 2007, 04:23 PM
I was born & raised there. Most of my family is still there. But after a short stint in the Army, I moved to Texas. That was around 30 years ago. For those still there, you have my sympathy.

Tuckerdog1

Gordon Fink
June 13, 2007, 05:17 PM
Widely believed but untrue.

12131.5. (a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 12131 if another firearm made by the same manufacturer is already listed and the unlisted firearm differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the following features:
(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing, chrome-plating, oiling, or engraving.
(2) The material from which the grips are made.
(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long as the difference in grip shape or texture does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.

~G. Fink

pablo45
June 13, 2007, 06:05 PM
I was born & raised there. Most of my family is still there. But after a short stint in the Army, I moved to Texas. That was around 30 years ago. For those still there, you have my sympathy.

Tuckerdog1


Good for you man. I am glad you made it out of that place. I had a vacation in California once and was not aware of there laws. I was suppose to stay for a week. Ended up leaving in 3 days. Ill never go back there. The criminals are better armed and have more rights then the law abiding citizens.

Librarian
June 13, 2007, 06:06 PM
Widely believed but untrue.However, the manufacturers still must pay the $200 fee and get the model on the list. If not on the list, it's theoretically illegal to sell (by an FFL), though I occasionally hear anecdotes of somewhat imprecise use of the DROS software.

Kali Endgame
June 13, 2007, 06:11 PM
Yep, when I was looking at buying a CZ75 a year ago, they had a cool two tone model that I couldn't buy. I'm not one for asthetics, but the function of the gun was the same and it looked cool, too.

DomMega
June 13, 2007, 06:35 PM
Good for you man. I am glad you made it out of that place. I had a vacation in California once and was not aware of there laws. I was suppose to stay for a week. Ended up leaving in 3 days. Ill never go back there. The criminals are better armed and have more rights then the law abiding citizens.


Man, ain't that the truth, I've already shared one story here about that. As of right now I'm just deciding where I want to go. It will either be Arizona or Nevada. I have many friends in both states however I can't decide if I want to stay in a big city or move to a more quieter one in Arizona. I'm really having a hard time but either way need to get out of L.A. I hate it here. This state is all washed up, and the Governator has changed nothing for the better.

QuarterBoreGunner
June 13, 2007, 07:09 PM
Widely believed but untrue.


Wow. This I did not know. Interesting...

Cannonball888
June 13, 2007, 07:35 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v45/Cannonball888/Cali.jpg

QuarterBoreGunner
June 13, 2007, 07:50 PM
Yes, yes, thank you for the insightful and original observation there Cannonball88; those of us that actually live there greatly value your opinion regarding our state.

Cannonball888
June 13, 2007, 07:58 PM
Didn't mean to offend CA THR members. I sympathize with the RKBA folks living there, but the government deserves criticism in any form.

pablo45
June 13, 2007, 08:16 PM
DOMmega, Good for you! I loved Nevada as a matter of fact the vacation i was on i finished it up at the grand canyon. Awesome place and they are free and still have there rights in tact. I think i might move there one day.

billwiese
June 13, 2007, 08:19 PM
{ please, no anti-CA flames - we've heard it all before and are still here fighting }

Yes, the general concept expressed by that dealer is true.

However, that dealer was right for kinda/sorta the wrong reasons.... Stainless steel vs. oridinary (blued) steel is not a difference in finish, it's a substantively different material - and it'd require testing/certification and separate listing. By contrast, if you had blued stainless vs. unblued stainless, that's mere cosmetics.

For the original poster:

.... since 2001 (?) SB15 "not unsafe handgun" handgun laws have been in force in CA.

Handguns offered for sale, new or used, by a CA FFL dealer must be on an approved Roster, with such guns having undergone drop testing and the manufacturer having to pay a renewable listing fee. Individuals cannot order a non-Rostered gun from outta state and have it shipped to a CA FFL for purchase. FFLs can order and/or sell non-Rostered guns to LEOs, who are exempted from these BS laws.

Individuals can sell non-Rostered guns to each other via "PPT" (private party transfers) mediated via FFL dealer and 10 day waiting period (just about all gun xfers in CA have a 10day wait + paperwork), or they can send their guns outta state to an FFL for sale. This makes non-rostered guns somewhat in demand in CA - things like older pinned & recessed S&W revolvers, for example - as they can't be brought in except by people moving into CA and registering them. (All folks moving into CA since 1/1/98 with *handguns* must register their *handguns* w/DOJ as a 'personal handgun importer' with $19/gun fee.)

Separate testing/listing for each variant (barrel length, caliber, DA/SA/DAO variants) is required. Starting in 2007, new semiautos introduced to the Roster (exsiting ones already on and paid to stay there are exempt) must have mag disconnect safeties, and next year, IIRC, loaded chamber indicators.
[I may have gotten those in reversed time order.]

Single-action revolvers w/min 3" bbl length and 7.5"(??) min overall length, and single-shot pistols with 6" min bbl length and 10.5"(?) min overall length are exempt from Rostering and 'safe handgun' laws.
Because of the way the laws are written, it is legal to convert

I'd expect the bigger manufacturers to start producing newer guns with mag discos/LCIs as options (or separate CA models available) to take advantage of the CA gun market - which is approx same size as 10 other western states combined.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA










Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

QuarterBoreGunner
June 13, 2007, 08:31 PM
<threadjack> but the government deserves criticism in any form. Absolutely correct! I apologize, I'm just overly sensitive when people make damming blanket statements about Cali and the people that live here; we're NOT all loons and we're trying the best we can in difficult circumstances.

Check out www.calguns.net and you won't find a more dedicated bunch of shooters and gunowners.

</threadjack>

DomMega
June 13, 2007, 08:34 PM
Yes, yes, thank you for the insightful and original observation there Cannonball88; those of us that actually live there greatly value your opinion regarding our state.


Well, he's right, this state is an absolute joke. Just look at the idiocy we have going on all the time. Our L.A. mayor getting divorced and backing up illegal aliens instead of his own police department, Arnold backing up amnesty bills to let more illegal aliens/criminals into the country, Paris Hilton being let out of jail and then put back in because Sheriff Baca is an imbecile, and then there's the actual gun laws. Give me a break, this state is a complete mess and the majority of people that live within it want nothing to do with fixing it but would rather just point the finger at others without getting proactive. It's no wonder people criticize us and the 3 ring circus that is California. And you guys are watching from afar, just imagine if you actually lived here and dealt with it all on a daily basis. That flag is comical and I'm going to put it in my group on myspace, I think they'll get a kick out of it because its so true.

Pablo, yes, Nevada is a beautiful state in many ways and so is Arizona. What in the heck is a fella to do? It's time to do some soul searching and see where I find myself in the future.

jselvy
June 13, 2007, 09:40 PM
From what I remember from living in Torrance, the LAPD is far more dangerous than any gang or illegal immigrant.
I don't know if there is such an institutionalized sinkhole of corruption anywhere outside of Chicago.
I encourage all Californians to vote NO with the weapon of their choice.

Jefferson

gbran
June 13, 2007, 10:14 PM
A few years ago, I wanted a Taurus 617, 7 shot .357 snubbie in blue. It was not on the Cali approved list, but the exact same gun in titanium was. I bought it and still wish I had gotten the heavier blued model.

Steak
June 13, 2007, 10:23 PM
Yep, when I was looking at buying a CZ75 a year ago, they had a cool two tone model that I couldn't buy.

I wanted to buy that same two-tone CZ75. Could not get it. I said oh well, I'll get the Nickel version. Can't get that either. Black is all thats available in Cali. Totally stupid, its the same exact gun. When they crash test cars for safety, do they need to test every color, and option, separately?

Zoogster
June 14, 2007, 06:47 PM
Widely believed but untrue.

What is law and what is policy may be slightly different. You can see it most profoundly if you look at say the Glock models. Notice the exact same models will be listed in duplicates with the letters OD after it to designate olive drab. So both the black ones and the olive ones are licensed as seperate firearms when everything else is exactly the same.

If the firearm is not specificly listed then nobody is going to import them for sale which means they will not be sold in the state. So you can argue the technicality, but the policy is yes that the firearm differing ever so slightly will not be sold in CA unless it is added to the roster.

You see a private individual moving to CA with otherwise CA legal firearms (10 round limit, no "assault weapon" characteristics like forward grips, barrel shroud, threaded barrel or magazine outside the pistol grip amongst other attributes) is exempt from the list. The only people that have to adhere to it are those already CA residents and licensed sellers. Of course non residents moving to CA still have to pay a fee to register it with the state.

So for all intents and purposes the guy in TX was correct.

dasmi
June 14, 2007, 06:54 PM
Yes, it's true. A gun can be legal in stainless, but illegal in blue. It comes down to money. A lot of manufacturers don't want to pay to have every gun they make, in every finish they offer, tested by the state, so they just don't.

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