@ what point do you decide to stop supporting something?


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ryan in maine
June 13, 2007, 06:43 PM
case 1:
I shop @ an online distributor. they can be found @ Digital Gravel.com (http://www.digitalgravel.com/). they make a lot of clothing I like, and I own several pieces of custom/limited production shirts, jeans, hats, and bandannas purchased thru them.

recently, they've seemed to have developed an anti-gun slant, and support politicians who are mind-bogglingly anti-gun (Obama). all of this has been a surprise and has, personally, rubbed me the wrong way.

so my question is, @ what point do you separate their opinions from your support?

the offending materials can be found @ these links:
http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/digitalgravel/the-1086/the-hundreds-self-offense/Detail
^ quoted from link:
This graphic is based on a kitschy vintage gimmicky novelty toy called a Polish Starting Pistol. But The Hundreds tweaked it and made it into a police gun. It's not only a commentary on gun control (the more guns are out there, the more people are just killing themselves), but can also be a statement about how The Hundreds feel about those who "Serve and Protect" us. The Hundreds think they should shoot themselves. Bomb logo print on the top back. by The Hundreds.
now, do I feel offended by such a remark as "the more guns are out there, the more people are just killing themselves", or do I just chalk it up to them having their opinions and continue purchasing products thru them? I don't even know if it's the entire site that has that opinion, or the author who wrote up the description of the shirt.

http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/digitalgravel/the-885/hoodman-chicago-obama-t-dsh-shirt/Detail
^ quoted from above link:
The upcoming election is our chance to set things straight and right some of the wrongs of the last 6 years, and we think that the US Senator for Illinois might just have exactly what this country needs. Hoodman show some love for Barack Obama, who happens to have spent much of his career in Chicago, having moved there in 1985, hence this Bulls-style "Chicago 08" design with the jersey-style 'Obama 08' print on the back. by Hoodman.
now, do I feel offended by such comments as "the upcoming election is our chance to set things straight and right some of the wrongs of the last 6 years, and we think that the US Senator for Illinois might just have exactly what this country needs", or do I just chalk it up them having their own opinions and continue conducting business with them?

there are a number of other products from them that I find borderline offensive, but don't really get a reaction from reading, personally.

but I really don't know if I want to support an anti-gun, Obama-supporting company. well, I know I don't. but are these two examples grounds for referring to them as an "anti-gun, Obama-supporting company"? I've been doing business with them for a good time now, and this stance is news to me. in the past they have openly supported liberal and conservative views alike. but this? I dunno.

case 2:
there is a website that I frequently use to research medical conditions and prescription medications. this website can be found @ Web MD.com (http://www.webmd.com/). I've found the site to be pretty helpful.

they have in the past, posted articles from writer's with a seeming anti-gun bias (an article on gun possession boosting testosterone and yeah, you can see where that goes).

more recently, they posted this article (http://children.webmd.com/news/20070604/firearm-safety-often-lax-around-kids).
^ quoted from article:
Firearm Safety Often Lax Around Kids
Only 1/3 of Families With Guns Store Firearms Safely

By Jennifer Warner (http://www.webmd.com/jennifer-warner)
WebMD Medical News

Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD (http://www.webmd.com/Louise-Chang)

June 4, 2007 -- Only a third of U.S. families that own firearms store them safely, locked away out of children’s reach, research shows.

The new study shows nearly one in four families with young children own firearms, but only a third of them report safe firearm storage, such as storing guns in a locked cabinet.

Researchers say children who live in a house with guns are at risk for firearm-related injuries, and previous studies have shown how the firearms are stored is directly related to the risk of injury. Robert H. Durant, PhD, from the departments of pediatrics and social science and health policy at Wake Forest University School of Medicine in Winston, N.C., was among the researchers.

To reduce the risk of firearm-related injuries among children, researchers recommend the following firearm storage practices:

* Store firearms in a locked cabinet/gun safe or with a gun lock.
* Store firearms unloaded.
* Keep bullets and shells stored in a separate location.
* Lock ammunition.

Firearm Safety Around Kids

In the study, researchers surveyed 3,745 parents who brought their child (aged 2-11) in to see their pediatrician for a well-child exam about gun ownership and storage in their household. The office settings were in 45 states, Canada, and Puerto Rico.

The results, published in Pediatrics, showed 23% of families with young children reported gun ownership, which is lower than found in previous studies.

Of those families who owned firearms, 60% reported making decisions regarding firearms storage. Only a third of parents reported safe gun storage habits.

Researchers found the type of gun owned was related to the type of storage used.

For example, owners of rifles and other long guns were more likely to keep their firearms in places other than a locked cabinet. Handgun owners were also more likely to store guns loaded and use gun locks.

In addition, the study showed adults who had been raised with firearms in the home were more likely to report safe firearm storage habits. Families with young children aged 2 to 5 years old were also more likely to store their guns safely than those with older children.
now, once again, I'm left wondering if I should continue visiting their site and chalk it up to personal opinions, or if I should stop subscribing to their news letters. the medical field in general has an anti-gun agenda, but I don't often see it reflected on that particular site.

so all in all, between these two sites, I'm torn between "who are they to tell me what the cause of gun crime is" and "who are they to push socialism on me and this country" and "who are they to tell me what proper gun safety is" and "who are they to tell me <etc.>" and ceasing all support of the sites, or if I should just smile for their 1st Amendment rights and continue doing business.

it feels like grounds to withdraw support, but should I? am I funding anti-gun companies with my business and subscriptions and visits to their site? I have no idea if either site donates to anti-gun organizations/causes.

Web MD is easy enough to stop supporting. Digital Gravel, however, makes too many things I like. it would be tough to stop purchasing from them. and I don't exactly think they have an anti-gun agenda.

yeesh. I dunno. all I know is that all three of those examples gave me bad feelings.

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Clipper
June 13, 2007, 07:17 PM
You're upset enough to bring this stuff here, but you aren't sure (and want us to tell you) if you're insulted enough to find somewhere else to shop? :banghead: Man up...

Oohrah
June 13, 2007, 07:19 PM
Sorry, you infringe on my citizen rights to bear arms. I and
those I know will no longer be your customer. Please remove
me from youir lists:fire:

wjustinen
June 13, 2007, 09:17 PM
Sorry, you infringe on my citizen rights to bear arms. I and
those I know will no longer be your customer. Please remove
me from youir lists

lanternlad1
June 13, 2007, 09:34 PM
The way to get them to drop this item is to play the race card. As a person of Polish heritage, I personally find it offensive that they buy into a racial stereotype to sell t-shirts. What's next? Showing a noose and calling it a N-word Necktie? Try that route and see what happens.

Werewolf
June 13, 2007, 09:38 PM
The beauty of capitalism is that each consumer can freely choose where he buys the products he wants. If one is basing their choice on things like price, quality, warranty, service, etc the market place is big enough that the results of individual consumer choices will shake their selves out in such a way that some sellers win, others lose. The sellers will know why they are winning or losing in most cases.

BUT!

If your choice is based on a company's political stance choosing to shop elsewhere will be a meaningless, hollow gesture unless they know why and they won't know why unless you and others who choose to shop elsewhere for the same reasons tell them.

Communicate with the seller and tell him you are taking your dollars elsewhere and why. Your single set of dollars isn't going to make or break him but if enough people stop buying for the same reasons as you he'll get the message and change his policies if he's a real capitalist.

If he's a true believer though he might very well be willing to bankrupt his business to stay true to his beliefs.

ServiceSoon
June 13, 2007, 10:38 PM
The first amendment allows them to have their beliefs, which is fine and dandy, but financially supporting companies that support Obama is like committing liberty suicide.

igor
June 14, 2007, 06:30 AM
IMHO your concern about the clothing store is a case closed. Even wearing their previous stuff might make you look bad now, as their stance is clear enough.

But, what exactly is it that you are finding offensive about the firearms storage bit? The recommendation to store ammo separated from the arms or?

ravnew
June 14, 2007, 10:07 AM
I would make it clear to them that my money was going elsewhere and exactly why this was happening. They, just like our elected rep's need to know just where we stand.

Joe Gunns
June 14, 2007, 07:52 PM
IMHO the significant factors in making such a decision are:

1. The extent to which a given company/entity provides direct monetary support to antigun organizations and politicians.

2. The personal benefit that I derive from the product of that company.

3. The availability of alternatives.

So, for your two examples:
I would cease doing business with the clothing site because they give a part of the money you give them to support the dark forces, while the benefit you derive from them is entirely related to your personal image, comfort and convenience, and you can get the stuff elsewhere.

I would continue use of WebMD as they are a free information and email update site, the benefit I can potentially derive from the info they provide might save my or a loved one's life and they are the best site of the type that I have found. They may count me as a member to get more bucks from advertisers, but unless I click on related advertising links I am not putting my money in an anti's pocket. Also, while they may publish articles about gun violence, AFAIK they do not make contribs to anti-gun pols, etc.

James

ryan in maine
June 15, 2007, 12:03 AM
Clipper, Dick, WJustinen, Werewolf, Service Soon, Rav New,

you're right. I had already sent an e-mail asking if the comments were representative of the site or of the authors. it seems that it is pretty much a site-wide stance.

it is unfortunate, but they will be losing my business (and the business of my friends who would like to know about this).

I guess I just needed a little encouragement. thanks guys.

Lantern Lad 1,
they've actually already featured the t-shirt with the noose idea. it was supposed to represent a run-away slave. of course, they are a distributor, but they decide what to feature. they've actually gone farther than that in their designs too. they think it's progressive, I imagine.

Igor,
regarding the firearms storage, I don't like the idea of ppl who likely have zero firearms knowledge and even less experience to offer up their ideas to me (and I'm a relative novice around here). store firearms unloaded? keep firearms locked up? store ammo separately? keep ammo locked up? nnn, kind of self-explanatory, isn't it? not only do they want to hinder your home-defense, but it's also a great way to inflate their statistics. those wiley physicians/researchers must have done overtime on that one.

Joe Gunns,
there are alternatives. I'm going to use them. you guys were right, and I just needed the encouragement to sever my ties with them.

I'm undecided on Web MD. after thinking about it, I don't support them financially either, other than serving as a blip on their traffic screen. I e-mailed them for some info, but it doesn't look like they're going to reply. if they continue e-mailing me anti-gun articles, I might stop using them out of annoyance. one more anti-gun story and I'll be fed up. they give me a bad feeling.

Digital Gravel, farewell. Web MD, get your act together.

thanks again, guys.

- Ryan

arjppj
June 15, 2007, 12:21 AM
if somebody is stupid enough to pay $30 for a tshirt, they are stupid enough to support gun control

ryan in maine
June 15, 2007, 12:25 AM
while you're in the mood, how about budgeting everything else for me? and if you've got the time, let me know what else I can do to avoid being stupid.

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