I thought Fred supported the 2A...


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Texan4Life
June 16, 2007, 01:40 AM
I ran across this:

"Fred Thompsonís Anti-Gun Senate Record"

"The Conservatives Against Fred Thompson volunteers have compiled a list of proposals voted for by Fred Dalton Thompson in the senate that include Gun Bans, confiscations and limitations of free speech by Gun Rights Advocates. Dates and bill numbers are provided so this information can be easily verified."

http://conservativesagainstfred.wordpress.com/2007/06/11/fred-thompsons-anti-gun-senate-record/

I'd have to say I'm a bit disappointed :mad:

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geekWithA.45
June 16, 2007, 02:10 AM
The operatives who have gone digging really had to stretch to find something.

They have also studied the gun culture quite carefully to determine what hot buttons to press to see how much progun support they can chop out from under him...but in favor of whom? The closet statist Guiliani? His near twin Romney? The laughable "It's my turn" McCain?

There are 13 charges.

Two are not even gun related.

Two have substance, and are disturbing,

The remainder are context twisters.


Make no mistake: this is not the work of anyone genuinely interested in gun rights, or a group of "concerned citizens". That blog is a professional hit piece, whose only purpose is to sow as much doubt as possible about Thompson, and needs to be evaluated as such.

R127
June 16, 2007, 02:22 AM
Fred Thompson has already been outted as a two-faced phoney-baloney would-be candidate who isn't even electable with his health condition anyway. I wouldn't worry about it.

TCB in TN
June 16, 2007, 02:24 AM
Fred Thompson has already been outted as a two-faced phoney-baloney would-be candidate who isn't even electable with his health condition anyway. I wouldn't worry about it.

Unless you want "The Grande Dame" or Obama you better hope that this is untrue!

SAG0282
June 16, 2007, 05:00 AM
Smacks of work done by the other side masquerading as "concerned conservatives".

ArfinGreebly
June 16, 2007, 05:15 AM
. . . is the only candidate . . .

. . . with a shooting event (http://www.gunweek.com/2000/feature0810.html) named after him.

The other candidates are pretty much all mainstream gun grabbers. Rudy G leads the pack with his Brady love fest thing and his active attempt to put the gun companies out of business.

I'm with Fred (http://www.imwithfred.com).

nobody_special
June 16, 2007, 05:40 AM
I'm with Fred.

I'm not.

Fred Thompson is just another George W. Bush.

DKSuddeth
June 16, 2007, 05:42 AM
The other candidates are pretty much all mainstream gun grabbers. Rudy G leads the pack with his Brady love fest thing and his active attempt to put the gun companies out of business.
are you putting ron paul in this group?

ArfinGreebly
June 16, 2007, 05:50 AM
No, I would never put Ron Paul in that group.

My apologies if it seemed that way.

I'm a fan of Ron Paul. I just wish he'd quit shooting himself in the foot.

GnL
June 16, 2007, 09:37 AM
It will be interesting to see all the Fred Thompson bashers after the '08 election, as they try to figure out which of their weapons President Clinton will come for first. No doubt they will be the first ones to complain about the outcome and start making bold pronouncements about turning in their bullets first.

I prefer to look at the big picture rather than look for an imaginary perfect candidate. I like Ron Paul but he ain't ever going to be president of the U.S. Period, end of story. Who else is there? I say Fred is our best bet at this point, though that could always change in the next 1.5 years.

XD Fan
June 16, 2007, 09:38 AM
I agree with geek. Those folks are really stretching it.

JohnBT
June 16, 2007, 09:46 AM
Ah, a right to life hit group. They don't list their names on their site either. JT

"Conservatives Against Fred Thompson is comprised of individuals of many faiths and creeds, bound by the common belief that each individual is endowed by their creator with the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated so well by our nationís founders. We hold that the right to life is so central that all other rights are meaningless unless that fundamental right to life is first secured.

We will toil, we will persist and we will never give up.

- The Founders"

jpk1md
June 16, 2007, 09:49 AM
+1 on Geek...this is a pretty big stretch even if true.

The only one I really have an issue with is the Lautenberg Am....

Fred has come out pretty vocally as a Pro Gun Candidate......FAR more clearly and with a much better record on 2A than anyone except Ron Paul.....the problem with RP/Dr No is that he's just not electable and his views on Foreign Policy are up there with sticking your head in the sand and hoping that you won't get shot in the ass.

pcosmar
June 16, 2007, 09:49 AM
geekWithA.45 said,
Make no mistake: this is not the work of anyone genuinely interested in gun rights, or a group of "concerned citizens". That blog is a professional hit piece, whose only purpose is to sow as much doubt as possible about Thompson, and needs to be evaluated as such.
The man is running for the highest office in the land. Investigation is not only expected but critical.
I was concerned with other issues about his candidacy but this is relevant.
To consider only his appearance and stage presents, without a critical look at the substance of his positions is unwise.

Kelly J
June 16, 2007, 01:16 PM
I offer this as a view of the actual record of the man.

http://http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Fred_Thompson.htm

R127
June 16, 2007, 02:53 PM
It will be interesting to see all the Fred Thompson bashers after the '08 election, as they try to figure out which of their weapons President Clinton will come for first. No doubt they will be the first ones to complain about the outcome and start making bold pronouncements about turning in their bullets first.

Coming after guns may or may not be high on Thompson's agenda. Outsourcing jobs, insourcing labor and promoting the police-state are all definately on his to-do list. I've never heard of a globalist federal authoritarian who wasn't interested in gun control. Thompson simply is no savior, just another neo-con who talks one way and acts another. As far as having a shooting event named after him, it isn't meaningful. Cheney is a mighty hunter, Kerry tried to make the same claim and Sarah Brady bought a .30-06 for her son.

But, as I said, it doesn't matter. He can't get elected with his cancer anyway.

springmom
June 16, 2007, 03:04 PM
He's far more likely to die WITH his cancer than to die OF his cancer. It's not running amok, he's not terminal, it's not going to be an issue.

I'm with Fred, too.

Springmom

Redneck with a 40
June 16, 2007, 03:19 PM
Fred Thompson owns two handguns, probably has a few rifles as well. He comes from Tennessee, he's got middle America values. I'm pretty sure its safe to say he's on our side. Out of the current crop of GOP clowns, Fred Thompson is the obvious choice! It speaks volumes that Fred Thompson is in second place right behind Guliani and he's not even in the race! If Fred gets in, and he will next month, I expect Guliani to take a nose dive in the polls. McCain is already done, he's at 14%, fell 8% this month alone, his BS immigration bill should finish him off, good riddance. Romney has the money, but his is a flip-flopper with a shaky record, I don't see him as a player. If it comes down to Guliani or Thompson, I hope America is wise and goes for Thompson.

Personally, I don't see what the appeal of Ron Paul is, I think the guy is an idiot.:neener: (Don's the flame suit).:evil:

FRED THOMPSON '08!:D

GnL
June 16, 2007, 03:21 PM
Outsourcing jobs, insourcing labor and promoting the police-state are all definately on his to-do list. I've never heard of a globalist federal authoritarian who wasn't interested in gun control.

Can you provide a reference to his to-do list? I haven't seen that one. As for being a "federal authoritarian," I think Fred Thompson has had more positive things to say on the issue of federalism than any other candidate I've heard. And no, to me Ron Paul is not a "candidate" in the practical sense. I know this probably offends many of you.

Lone_Gunman
June 16, 2007, 03:24 PM
I don't care about Fred Thompson's gun record. It is completely unimportant to me.

He voted for Campaign Finance Reform, which violates political free speech.

He voted for Medicare Reform, the largest social welfare program since Lyndon Johnson.

He voted for the Patriot Act, which has increased the size and intrusiveness of the Federal government.

He supports a never-ending War on Terror.

Please look closely at him. Conservatives are trying to make him out to be their new saviour. He is a neo-conservative in the mold of George W. Bush.

If you voted for Bush and were disappointed, you should look closely at Thompson, because he will disappoint you just as much.

Autolycus
June 16, 2007, 03:26 PM
Redneck with a 40: Could you elaborate on what middle America values are? I have not heard this term and would like an explanation.

FeebMaster
June 16, 2007, 03:27 PM
Thompson could go on television and announce that he wants to confiscate every gun in the country and the same people would still support him.

They'd just whip out the old "It's a clever ruse to get the gun grabbers to vote for him" excuse.

Cosmoline
June 16, 2007, 03:37 PM
The operatives who have gone digging really had to stretch to find something.

My thoughts exactly. I wonder who's paying for this. There's no authorship on the "blog," and the organization has no history at all. What do you want to bet it's some operative from the HC campaign?

To consider only his appearance and stage presents, without a critical look at the substance of his positions is unwise.

It's also very unwise to buy into unsigned attack pieces that appear out of nowhere on the net and are pasted around forums.



Conservatives Against Fred Thompson is a non-profit, non-partisan, non-denominational, social-conservative organization dedicated to upholding the truth about the record of misdeeds of Fred Dalton Thompson and the harm he might pose to the future of our great nation if no action is taken.

Conservatives Against Fred Thompson is comprised of individuals of many faiths and creeds, bound by the common belief that each individual is endowed by their creator with the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated so well by our nation’s founders. We hold that the right to life is so central that all other rights are meaningless unless that fundamental right to life is first secured.

We will toil, we will persist and we will never give up.

- The Founders

Yet not one of them was willing to sign his name. What do you want to bet these "founders" are one guy working for the D's?

MrRezister
June 16, 2007, 04:19 PM
I have to agree that the website is more of a souless hit-piece than a legitimate 2A protection group. Then again, I think Lone Gunman (Post #20) might be right about Thompson. I've seen a lot of people complaining about the job that Bush and the Republicans have been doing in office, but it seems like they are mostly willing to throw their hope behind someone who is almost exactly the same as the ones they are complaining about.

I'm still looking into it, but from what I've seen so far, the primary differences between Bush and Thompson are 1) Thompson's ability to form complete sentences and speak from a script without screwing up and 2) Thompson may be a little more gun-friendly. On most of the other major issues, I'm afraid he's pretty much the same, which means right now I can't vote for him, and I certainly can't see him saving the Republican party.

Redneck with a 40
June 16, 2007, 04:40 PM
Middle America Values in my book are :

1) Pro military, strong national defense
2) Anti gay marriage, some see this as a civil rights issue, I see it as a degradation of the moral fabric of America. Why should we change an institution that has been in place for 200 years? In the name of progress? Bull-S***.
3) Anti Abortion, do civilized countries murder their unborn children? Except in a few cases, abortion should be outlawed. (rape and incest would be the exception). Abortion will always be a cop-out for people's stupid decisions, and that's pathetic. No one made these people have sex. (personal responsibility).
4) Gun rights advocate, this one is obvious.
5) Work for what you have, earn it. There are no handouts.
6) I believe religion has a place in America, its what this country was founded on.

These are "middle America" values to me. I'm sure tecumseh will disagree with me on these points, but he asked.:neener: I'm a cultural dinosaur, very traditional, I believe in the traditions that made this country strong. Progressives that want to throw all that out the window piss me off.

My brother is a "progressive", we've had more than a few heated discussions concerning what I mentioned above. My brother believes that guns should be banned, his belief is based purely on all of the media BS, which he takes as gospel.:fire: My brother is ignorant of guns and the "gun culture".

Sage of Seattle
June 16, 2007, 04:54 PM
Why should we change an institution that has been in place for 200 years?

You mean the government was handing out entitlements and tax breaks to married couples two hundred years ago?

do civilized countries murder their unborn children?

Societies have always decided who lives and who dies. Capital punishment, euthanasia, abortion... whatever.

geekWithA.45
June 16, 2007, 07:42 PM
DO. NOT.

Degenerate this thread into a flame fest on abortion and homosexuality.




Those values are not universal, they are divisive.

There are plenty of American values that are universal, and unifying:

Liberty.
Responsibility.
Self Determination.
Hard work, and the reaping of its rewards.
Tolerance, for those who think, pray or speak other than we would.
Privacy.
Limited Government.

FeebMaster
June 16, 2007, 07:57 PM
There are plenty of American values that are universal, and unifying:

Liberty.
Responsibility.
Self Determination.
Hard work, and the reaping of its rewards.
Tolerance, for those who think, pray or speak other than we would.
Privacy.
Limited Government.


What America do you live in? I'd like to visit.

pcosmar
June 16, 2007, 08:11 PM
Those are American values.
Unfortunately not the present reality, but some of us are still working on it.

Lone_Gunman
June 16, 2007, 08:17 PM
I don't think any of those values listing are unifying. In fact, some of them are down right divisive.

ArfinGreebly
June 16, 2007, 08:22 PM
Dude.

You forgot the smiley.

Roc_Kor
June 16, 2007, 10:31 PM
His cancer will not kill him. He's said that it will NOT affect his life expectancy PLUS he is in remission.

And MY GOD people, your endless Ron Paul vs. Fred Thompson bickering has moved from annoying to downright despicable. This forum is supposed to be THE HIGH ROAD for GOODNESS SAKE. This is what a RP vs. FT argument should look like on this forum:

Person 1: I like Fred Thompson.
Person 2: I personally prefer Ron Paul, but I respect your decision. I feel Ron Paul is more in touch with my political views.
Person 3: Yeah Ron Paul's got some pretty good ideas. We could use someone like him.
Person 1: Yes, but I feel Fred Thompson would be better for the War on Terror.
Person 3: Well that is an important issue as well. I believe a FT/RP or RP/FT ticket would be the best solution, don't you?

<END of Utopian discussion.>

GROW. UP. PEOPLE. I am most likely at LEAST 10-20 years younger than all of you and I am APPALLED by how CHILDISH you are acting! "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin

Autolycus
June 16, 2007, 10:35 PM
Actually Redneck with a 40: I dont think that you realize gay marriage and gay institutions are a lot older than 200 years old. They actually date back to a lot more ancient times. So actually by banning it we have stopped progress? You also realize that the founding fathers did not allow the government to regulate marriage.

As for abortion, well it has been around for a long long time. In the time when our country was founded they were performed by people called mid-wives. And it was not considered murder because there is no baby nor is a person actually dying. Let me ask you, can I enroll a fetus in school or can it get a job?

I definately agree with working for your earnings and your own success.

As for religion, why didnt the Founding Fathers name a religion? Why were they so anti-religon in some of their personal writings? I dont think the United States of America was founded on religion in all honesty but freedom to practice your religion was one of the principles.

So what traditions are you talking about? Like what slavery, exploitation of others, mistreating others? Racism and prejudice running rampant? Here is a good one, genocide of nearly an entire race of people after we stole their land. How about lynching people for being black and wanting to be equal?

Any other traditions? How about religious ones like Christmas which were not widely celebrated until the 19th century? How about forcing native peoples to convert to your religion with violence? How about cutting their hair and outlawing their languages? What about denying these people the ability to get married or even sterilizing some of them?

TnRebel
June 16, 2007, 10:46 PM
I think its time to lock a thread the B/S is getting over the hip waders :neener:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/TnRebel/threadsucks.jpg

jselvy
June 16, 2007, 10:47 PM
Well said Tecumseh

Jefferson

pcosmar
June 16, 2007, 10:48 PM
To take this back on topic, Fred Thompson on the 2nd amendment is probably better than most of the GOP candidates. Certainly head and shoulders above the "Top Tier".
That said, I will not be supporting him, there are other positions that have I disagree with.
It has nothing to do with the "hit piece" on his record.

Autolycus
June 16, 2007, 10:50 PM
He is not as good as Ron Paul. We would be better off voting for Ron Paul in regards to 2nd Amendment issues.

Redneck with a 40
June 16, 2007, 10:55 PM
I stated my beliefs in no uncertain terms. I'm not pushing them on anyone else, nor do I advocate violence of any sort. The extremist behavior you outlined in your post is something I would never condone, so whats your point? How does my traditional values perspective condone the kind of violence you mentioned? Absurd.:rolleyes:

1) Is the definition of life based on "can I enroll a fetus in a school"? Are you kidding me?
2) Why is "In god we trust" on the dollar bill??

Life begins at conception in my book, end of story.

Are you implying that I am some kind of racist or bigot, because I am opposed to gay marriage, based on a traditional values perspective?

You're talking points sound like they are straight out of the progressive handbook, kind of ironic, since your a gun owner.

1) Eliminate christmas as it relates to a religious celebration? :barf:
2) Condone gay marriage?:barf:
3) Minimize and stigmatize religion in this country?:barf:

Gila Jorge
June 16, 2007, 10:57 PM
Fred Thompson certainly has my vote and my wifes and my friends and the
votes of my adult education english class....damn sure don't want an Obama
bin laden nor a Billery....had enough of both camps thank you...and as for
Bush he's a left wing pinko commie in my book....and as to national sovereignty...that is a major issue right behind abortion and 2nd amendment
concerns and the right to worship God as we see fit...these are middle american values...forget the east coast and west coast...America lies in the middle...

LoverOfLiberty
June 16, 2007, 11:03 PM
I'm not sure if this is appropriate, but, Redneck:

"rape and incest would be the exception"

You just said abortion is murder. Those two have no reason to make it an exception. A child is innocent of his father's guilt.

Redneck with a 40
June 16, 2007, 11:05 PM
Me and Tecumseh are diametrically opposed on social issues, that's obvious. I'll leave it at that, this discussion could get ugly in a hurry. I don't want to get the thread locked either, so I'm done.

Autolycus
June 16, 2007, 11:23 PM
I agree to that Redneck with a 40.

Matt King
June 16, 2007, 11:24 PM
I believe religion has a place in America, its what this country was founded on.

Are you aware that our founding fathers were deists?

CDignition
June 16, 2007, 11:33 PM
I don't want to hear ANY complaining from the folks that wont support a winning candidate thats on our side(Gun Rights) when a DEM moonbat gets into office...

You may not agree with Thompson on alot of things, but ill bet you agree with even less of the things ANY of the Dem frontrunner's offer. BE CAREFUL ON WHO YOU DONT SUPPORT.

And forget any independents...this is a 2 Party system, it will never change...a vote for losertarian or other party is a wasted vote(Remember Perot).

Lone_Gunman
June 16, 2007, 11:36 PM
BE CAREFUL ON WHO YOU DONT SUPPORT

That should have been the campaign slogan of George W. Bush. We tried that, and got eight years of him.

Also, before you get all bent out of shape, I would like to point out that we are talking about the Republican PRIMARY here, not the general election. Voting against Fred in the primary does not elect a Democrat.

CDignition
June 17, 2007, 12:01 AM
Voting against Fred in the primary does not elect a Democrat.


Sure it does....NONE of the current Repub Candidates will win against a DEM Candidate...

Scanr
June 17, 2007, 12:29 AM
Fred Thompson has a chance of winning and is better than most on the 2nd. Ron Paul (someone should not have two first names as their name), does not have even 1% of the people following him.

Do I agree with everything he stands for, nope, but I like him a whole lot better than most anyone else who has a chance.

geekWithA.45
June 17, 2007, 12:35 AM
Closed for:

Bickering Re: Abortion & Homosexuality (I guess some people can't read)

Bonus points awarded towards thread closure for

Dead Horse Beating Re: Fred v Ron

Art Eatman
June 17, 2007, 08:52 AM
Play in the mega-thread. And this is just more silliness, anyway.

Art

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