It is legal in all 50 states to live trap and exterminate feral cats?


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wacki
June 16, 2007, 11:02 AM
From digg:

It is legal in all 50 states to live trap and exterminate feral cats.
You cat owners that allow your cats to roam free and uncollarded should realize your animal is legally feral.

Is this true? So is it open hunting season for cats year round? Can I shoot them as well?

Interesting reading on bird populations:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/06/14/bird.decline/
Story Highlights
• 20 common birds have lost more than half their populations in the past 40 years

from: DOMESTIC CAT PREDATION ON BIRDS AND OTHER WILDLIFE
www.abcbirds.org

Cats Are Not a Natural Part of Ecosystems
The domestic cat, Felis catus, is a descendant of the European and African wild cats.

Wisconsin: Researchers at the University of Wisconsin coupled
their four-year cat predation study with data from other studies,
and estimated that rural free-roaming cats kill at least 7.8 million
and perhaps as many as 217 million birds a year in Wisconsin.

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trueblue1776
June 16, 2007, 11:04 AM
yes, yes, and yes

wacki
June 16, 2007, 11:07 AM
Best online source that would confirm the laws?

Also, anyone got any good cat recipes? :evil:

trueblue1776
June 16, 2007, 11:14 AM
Check local game regulations, any animal with "feral" in the title is a 12/24/365 kill 99.99% of the time, they may be lumped into varmints in some territory, though I kinda doubt it. Just don't violate any weapons ordinances in the process.

People get pissed when you kill their pets, I shot about 10 cats living under my house and one of my neighbors had the gall to claim them as pets, I should have told her to clean the duke out of my flowerbeds and buy me more chickens.

ravencon
June 16, 2007, 11:17 AM
Wisconsin: Researchers at the University of Wisconsin coupled
their four-year cat predation study with data from other studies,
and estimated that rural free-roaming cats kill at least 7.8 million
and perhaps as many as 217 million birds a year in Wisconsin.

And there is plenty of "research" showing that gun ownership is dangerous.

Cats also kill plenty of rodents--most people think that's a good thing.

A person who looks for reasons to gratuitously kill cats sounds like a person in need of psychiatric treatment.

peyton
June 16, 2007, 11:33 AM
It does not matter if you are in the sticks or in the middle of town, wild cats multiple like crazy, difficult to catch and carry diseases as well. My mom's street had a herd of wild cats running amok. I was on leave and spoke to all the neighbors about thinning the population down. They were agreeable and the cat owners agreed also, they put ribbon around there pets neck to prevent "friendly fire incident." With a Sheridan pellet rifle, good scope and maglite I took 14 cats in a week. Oh by the way, all of this was done after dozens of calls to animal control. Everyone was happier afterwards, kids were not terrified of the crazy kitties and the cat owners were happier knowing little "Fluffy" would not be attacked.

brerrabbit
June 16, 2007, 11:55 AM
I gotta go with Peyton. Most of the ferals you see have nothing in common housepets. They do need to be controlled. I use a .22 myself.

Where I live, nothing but the most feral,vicious, and canny kitties can survive in the wild, anything less is waiting to go crunch in the night. But there is still a population of the buggers running around. They play hell with the baby quail and turkey populations.

And yes, I do have cats of my own. I am not sure where they fall under the pet/tool line, I use them for rodent control, considering that I have forgotten to feed them for months at a time and they still got fat, they are good at what they do.

Kentak
June 16, 2007, 12:04 PM
I wouldn't wantonly kill a cat that I knew was someone's pet, but they can be a nuisance. I would try non-lethal methods first, like talking to the owner, tossing a firecracker when it crosses the property line, and rigging the flower beds with line voltage. (Just kidding)

Most people around here are responsible about keeping their pets from bothering others. But, once, there was a cat that was spraying its scent all around my place--and I hate that smell. I would have put it down in a heartbeat.

K

TallPine
June 16, 2007, 12:21 PM
Cats Are Not a Natural Part of Ecosystems
Excuse me, but we have had a cougar hanging around our place for the past few weeks :rolleyes:

And there's plenty of bobcats around too. I suppose the bobcats eat grass and sing kum-bay-ya with the birds and rodents ???

We have domestic cats to somewhat sort of control the rodent population around the house and yard. Unfortunately, we are down to two now because there are also bigger things out there eating our cats.

Doesn't seem to be any shortage of birds either. I've heard bird calls this spring that I've never heard before.

Edited to add: the only way I would shoot a feral cat is if it was fighting with our cats or otherwise causing a problem. We have one or two feral ones hanging around but hardly ever see them.

cracked butt
June 16, 2007, 12:40 PM
Cats also kill plenty of rodents--most people think that's a good thing.

So do raptors, which are part of the natural ecosystem and which I would easily consider to be higher animals than cats.

Its not uncommon for bowhunters to shoot feral cats while hunting, I know a lot of them that have. I sure as heck wouldn't hesitate to shoot an invasive species (cat) in an area where woodcock, grouse, and turkeys nest.

cracked butt
June 16, 2007, 12:43 PM
And there is plenty of "research" showing that gun ownership is dangerous
Except most of the "research" by antigunners hasn't been peer reviewed, didn't follow any kind of scientific model or investigation, and wasn't published in a respectable science journal.

wacki
June 16, 2007, 01:17 PM
And there is plenty of "research" showing that gun ownership is dangerous
Except most of the "research" by antigunners hasn't been peer reviewed, didn't follow any kind of scientific model or investigation, and wasn't published in a respectable science journal.

I agree with this. Even among the best of journals bad papers will *sometimes* get through. This is especially true when it comes to studies based off of statistics and not mechanisms. And with firearms studies it's almost all statistics.

Stick with CDC and National Academy of Sciences assessment reports (the proceedings aren't peer reviewed) and you will get accurate information. As of right now the science seems to be either on our side or not against us anyway:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

http://www.nap.edu/books/0309091241/html/

Either way it shouldn't matter. Getting drunk is bad for me but I still do it. Swimming pools are dangerous but I still own one. Cars are dangerous but I still drive. Motorcycles are pointless but I still support peoples right to do it. Homosexuality (which the far left seems to hold up on a pedestal) and premarital sex is.....

The list goes on.

glockman19
June 16, 2007, 01:18 PM
Cats are generally considered domesticated animals. They are good in that they help to control the rodent population. I like cats have two one 20 yrs old one 16. If someone were to shoot my cat I'd shoot back.

Shooting domesticated animals is just wrong.

Molon Labe
June 16, 2007, 01:18 PM
You cat owners that allow your cats to roam free and uncollarded should realize your animal is legally feral.
I'm pretty sure this isn't true. A pet cat is a pet cat. A feral cat is a feral cat.

In Ohio it is illegal to kill a pet. Even it it wanders onto your property:

ORC 959.02 Injuring animals.
No person shall maliciously, or willfully, and without the consent of the owner, kill or injure a horse, mare, foal, filly, jack, mule, sheep, goat, cow, steer, bull, heifer, ass, ox, swine, dog, cat, or other domestic animal that is the property of another. This section does not apply to a licensed veterinarian acting in an official capacity.

Effective Date: 10-01-1953

There is no law in Ohio that says you can't kill a feral cat, however. Hence you can.

Kentak
June 16, 2007, 01:26 PM
In Ohio it is illegal to kill a pet. Even it it wanders onto your property:

What about alien abductions? That could happen.

wacki
June 16, 2007, 01:28 PM
I'm pretty sure this isn't true.

I think the key word was uncollared. A lack of a collar might free the hunter from any and all liability.

Kentak
June 16, 2007, 01:29 PM
When does a stray become feral instead of a pet?

hexidismal
June 16, 2007, 01:44 PM
A person who looks for reasons to gratuitously kill cats sounds like a person in need of psychiatric treatment.

Agreed. I have to say here wacki, your enthusiasm in the matter disturbs me greatly.

Elza
June 16, 2007, 01:52 PM
I am a consummate animal lover. (2 dog, 5 cats, 6 ferrets, and 2 rats.) However, my animals stay where they belong – at home! My dogs are legally and properly restrained when outside (they mostly stay indoors anyway). The cats remain indoors at all times. Personally, I find loose animals to be a complete PIA. They cause my dogs to bark, mess in my yard, and pee on my cars all of which I find most annoying. Loose dogs are not only a PIA they can pose physical danger to children and adults as well. Anyone that truly cares for their animals will keep them safe from harm by not allowing them to run wild.

I would rather see the owners taken to task than making the animals pay the price but that will land you in jail. So, regardless of my love for animals, I say “Good luck and good hunting!”

trueblue1776
June 16, 2007, 02:02 PM
Waki-
Get a few of the worthless fur sacks for me. They carry a few odd things so I wouldn't eat them if I were you. They would however, make excellent trim for your winter parka.

Anybody who thinks feral cats (predators) isn't a big deal, does not hunt, or keep flower beds. The worst is when my dogs get thrown off the trail of a hog by a feral cat, the dogs get to take a kitty snack break and I get to go home with no meat for the butcher.

PzGren
June 16, 2007, 02:06 PM
I don't let my dogs roam around and, yes, I am a dog person, I have finches, too.

If I see a stray cat, it is doomed.

Kevin108
June 16, 2007, 02:14 PM
Many areas have rescue program for ferals. You might contact PETA about this or ask around at a local vet. Or ask around for the local crazy cat lady. My mom has 5 ferals.

wacki
June 16, 2007, 02:14 PM
A person who looks for reasons to gratuitously kill cats sounds like a person in need of psychiatric treatment.
Agreed. I have to say here wacki, your enthusiasm in the matter disturbs me greatly.


lol Although I've thought long and hard about going pheasant hunting I've never killed a thing in my life. I will even let (non-poisonous) spiders out the front door. But if somebody else wanted to hunt cats to save a particular bird population I have no problem with that. In my opinion it's Birds >>>> cats >>>> rats. I do have a few friends in the country that would love to shoot cats though. :-D

FYI: outdoor cats are really nasty. If you let a cat outside don't let it back in the house. They tend to gather parasites like it's their job. The number of US citizens that are currently infected from parasites commonly found in cats is just staggering. Something like 50% of the planet is at any one time.

ebd10
June 16, 2007, 02:16 PM
Feral cats are a major reason why ground nesting bird populations are on the decline. Lots of ground-nesting birds eat insects like ticks and chiggers. Lyme disease is on the increase in humans, as is bubonic plague and hanta virus. To keep it in perspective, none of these dieases are in epidemic proportions, but there is a decided increase. Obviously, correlation does not prove causation, but the pieces seem to fit.

When I'm out hunting, if I see a cat or a dog, no collar = no mercy.

Biker
June 16, 2007, 02:21 PM
Cats on my property are in real danger of being harmed. I have no cats. I don't care for cats. I feed birds and cats kill the birds.
I've found kitty paw prints on my fatbobs and claw marks on my seat.
Cats found off my property are perfectly safe.
On property=Bad for cat.
Off property=Fine by Biker.

Sound fair to y'all?

Biker

wacki
June 16, 2007, 02:21 PM
Many areas have rescue program for ferals. You might contact PETA about this or ask around at a local vet. Or ask around for the local crazy cat lady. My mom has 5 ferals.

Tell your mom to read this:
http://wacki.wordpress.com/2007/04/01/toxoplasma-gondii/

She may think twice about collecting feral cats in the house. There are plenty more parasites to discuss but that is one that infects 50 million Americans hand has been linked to schizophrenia.

wacki
June 16, 2007, 03:10 PM
A person who looks for reasons to gratuitously kill cats sounds like a person in need of psychiatric treatment.
Agreed. I have to say here wacki, your enthusiasm in the matter disturbs me greatly.


I have a quick question for you two. Why so much angst against cat hunters? Pigs are a thousand times smarter than cats. Do you eat bacon?

hexidismal
June 16, 2007, 03:16 PM
Because probably 95% of cats you're likely to come across are someone's beloved family pet, whether it's outside or not. You're talking about hunting what some would consider members of people's family for fun, and you're asking why people might be adverse to that notion ? It's absolutely ridiculous to even consider hunting them for sport, as it certainly wouldn't be very sporting. Most of the time you could hold out a piece of food and say "C'mere kitty". That isn't hunting.

And I don't even like cats.

Oh and no.. actually I don't eat bacon. Don't get me wrong, I'm a meat eater, I just don't dig on swine.

Autolycus
June 16, 2007, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Cracked Butt:
Except most of the "research" by antigunners hasn't been peer reviewed, didn't follow any kind of scientific model or investigation, and wasn't published in a respectable science journal.

You do know that the researchers in this study on cats, people from U of Wisconsin, are also some of the leading researchers on social problems like gun violence and have written many anti-gun articles.

So either your right and they are a legitimate source or you are wrong and they are not.

I am sorry but I would not shoot a cat unless it was attacking me or my loved ones including my own pets.

slzy
June 16, 2007, 03:18 PM
i had a bat in the basement recently. my son picked him up in a towell and put him in a bush. i figured rabid animals were typically snarling,foaming at the mouth,and aggressive. but,when i looked up rabid bats,the symptoms were: finding one in daylight in a place you would not expect them,i.e. the house,and unable to fly. the article said such a bat was probably rabid. so,i started asking around,if the feral cats could get rabies from eating a diseased bat. the answer was,probably. thus,imo,feral cats represent a significant health risk.

Autolycus
June 16, 2007, 03:20 PM
Would any of you feel the same if we were talking about children? Sometimes kids are a nuisance but you cant shoot them. I dont see the point in shooting a cat for being a cat.

How about endangered species? Bald eagle crapped on my car, so I am gonna shoot it and fry up some eagle egg omeletes.

Some of you are very bloodthirst and it is disturbing.

Autolycus
June 16, 2007, 03:23 PM
Interesting enough this thread is also going on...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282978

wacki
June 16, 2007, 03:29 PM
You do know that the researchers in this study on cats, people from U of Wisconsin, are also some of the leading researchers on social problems like gun violence and have written many anti-gun articles.

So either your right and they are a legitimate source or you are wrong and they are not.

lol Are you aware that there is more than one person at the University of Wisconsin?

1 old 0311
June 16, 2007, 03:52 PM
.22 shorts from a 10/22 can't read the laws.:evil:

wacki
June 16, 2007, 03:54 PM
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3946/catvseaglefq8.jpg

Gotta protect them eagles!!!!!!!!!

cracked butt
June 16, 2007, 04:24 PM
You do know that the researchers in this study on cats, people from U of Wisconsin, are also some of the leading researchers on social problems like gun violence and have written many anti-gun articles

I don't consider sociologists to be scientists and I do not really care about their so-called 'research'- sorry, I actually studied math, Biology chemistry, and physics in college, soft-scientists are wannabes.;) Other than that, the University of Wisconsin has some of the finest Wildlife Biologists in the country.

am sorry but I would not shoot a cat unless it was attacking me or my loved ones including my own pets.
I'd shoot them because they destroy wildlife and habitat. No different than taking the carp home that I caught to put in the garden instead of playing 'catch-and-release' with them.


Would any of you feel the same if we were talking about children? Sometimes kids are a nuisance but you cant shoot them.


If and when you ever have kids, revisit this question to see how silly it sounds.

Kevin108
June 16, 2007, 04:56 PM
She may think twice about collecting feral cats in the house. There are plenty more parasites to discuss but that is one that infects 50 million Americans hand has been linked to schizophrenia.

I don't mean they STAY feral! Hahaha! They get the full battery from the vet, get fixed, live inside, and are tamed as much as they can be. Sorry for not explaining further.

Deanimator
June 16, 2007, 05:04 PM
I have three words for you:

SIX FOOT BLOWGUN :D

Oleg Volk
June 16, 2007, 05:29 PM
"Taste an endangered species before they are all gone" :)

TallPine
June 16, 2007, 05:35 PM
Oleg beat me to it ... I was going to say:

How about endangered species?
Bald eagle and spotted owl are tough and stringy. Sandhill crane, however, tastes just like chicken ;)

wacki
June 16, 2007, 05:55 PM
Oleg beat me to it ... I was going to say:


How about endangered species?
Bald eagle and spotted owl are tough and stringy. Sandhill crane, however, tastes just like chicken

Ok, now I find this morally wrong. Come on man at least try to respect biodiversity. That's just not right. Once a species is gone it's gone for good.

Cats on the other hand, theres no shortage of them

jselvy
June 16, 2007, 06:37 PM
I always thought biodiversity was more than one kind of wild meat on my plate.

Jefferson

Lupinus
June 16, 2007, 06:41 PM
I am all for dealing with feral cats, I am not for killing pets. There is a decided difference between a feral animal and an animal outside ones home.

If it is causing damage I find the best bet is contact the owner and let them know there is a problem. My cats go outside and I have never had a complaint, and never actually seen them leave the yard and I've watched or jsut checked on them out the window an awful lot. The day I get a complaint? Thats the day they stop going outside.

jselvy
June 16, 2007, 07:24 PM
My cats used to run all over the rural area that we lived in, and I never knew it. Until our neighbor, who owned a horse ranch next door, came by and offered me $100.00 cash for my cats. He had seen then stalk and kill a large grain rat in his barn.


Jefferson

wacki
June 16, 2007, 08:02 PM
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5019/cateagle5obav4.jpg

Another fun pic

.cheese.
June 16, 2007, 08:08 PM
My parents' house/neighborhood has a feral cat problem

feral cats are a problem. I have not shot any, but I've had the thought cross my mind.

I'd hate to do it, but they are not your cute and cuddly kitty pets... they're pests like any other and have attacked the family dog on more than one occasion.

If it continues, I will be forced to take action. I may be able to get away with just trapping them... or I may be able to use non-lethal methods to get the point across that my parents' home is not their home.... but unfortunately the possibility exists that I may need to take them out.

Oh yeah..... and as mentioned, they multiply like crazy! When they first showed up there were maybe 10 my mother said, "Awww... that's terrible. They have no home. YOU CAN'T KILL THEM!!! :cuss:" Now there is something like 150-200 roaming the neighborhood.

Thad
June 16, 2007, 08:13 PM
This topic is just way too cool. Nice to know that there are others like me who just find cats useless.

Professor K
June 16, 2007, 08:17 PM
Why not just not be an *******, and if you see a feral cat and catch it, go donate it to the humane society or something?

Speer
June 16, 2007, 08:20 PM
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3946/catvseaglefq8.jpg

Great pic.

I would not shoot a cat unless it was attacking me or my loved ones including my own pets.

Damn straight.

maynard93
June 16, 2007, 08:23 PM
There wouldn't be a problem if the cat-lovers took responsibility for their pets. If you enjoy your cats so much, enjoy the whole package and keep them from cr@pping in my garden. Cleaning up after them is part of the deal. Same goes for your dog. By the way, I've never caught a kid or a raptor cr@pping in my roses. If you have a feral problem, call PETA. They will kill them for you. http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

Radagast
June 16, 2007, 10:10 PM
Cat lover here. I spent $5000.00 keeping my last cat alive for an extra year. None the less, I will shoot _feral_ cats if needed. I accept that domestic cats will kill if they get the chance, even for the pleasure of it. I still won't kill a known pet, unless it attacking my pets. I had three cat's poisoned, on my own property. If I had found out who the perpetrator was I would not have followed the high road. My pets are part of my family.

Cat's don't kill because they are evil, think of it as being in their programming. For thousands of years we have kept them to hunt and kill vermin, not just enough to eat, but to exterminate them, so we don't get rats in the grain. They have been bred and trained to do what they do. For millenia they have been praised for doing so. They are doing what they know instintively to be right. Ever tried to take a bird or a mouse from a cat? It's about they only time a pet will snarl at you. As far as they are concerned, you are being perverted!

Top that off with thousands of years of being worshipped as gods and they get the instinctive belief in their own superiority over humans. Which makes it hard to change their ways.

The ferals that I have encountered tend to be just that, feral. A hungry ball of fur, fear, anger and hate with fangs.

The domestics are different, they will sit and look at me from a safe distance. Luckily they aren't dumb. As soon as I reach for a rifle they vacate our property and I don't see them again for the duration of my visit. Brandishing works. :P

Autolycus
June 16, 2007, 10:22 PM
So if someones dog gets loose and craps in my yard would I be justified in shooting it? Afterall it is a nusiance.

Deanimator
June 16, 2007, 10:28 PM
If it is causing damage I find the best bet is contact the owner and let them know there is a problem.
A friend had a problem with the neighbors' cats crapping in his flowerbeds, tracking mud on his truck's hood, etc. He asked them to keep them on their property. They told him in so many words to urinate up a length of hemp. Animal control didn't express any interest in doing anything about the problem.

After that, he started leaving saucers of anti-freeze out for them. The neighbors started coming onto his property and breaking the saucers.

A piano wire dart from a six foot blowgun will knock a cat right off of the top of a house... I hear... ;)

marksman13
June 16, 2007, 10:34 PM
Pet cats and feral cats are totally different animals people. Sure they are biologically the same, but they are not considered the same under law. I will shoot any feral cat on sight. Flame away. The same goes for feral dogs. If that bothers then that's too bad. Feral cats and dogs are a realistic threat to the natural ecosystem. If your dog gets loose and becomes feral, he is a legitimate threat to the other animals in his ecosystem. Carrying capacity is also an issue within the ecosystem. When pets become feral animals they can flood the ecosystem with predators. The impact on prey speices can be devastating. I will continue to thin the population of feral cats and dogs in my area. Keep up with your pet. Take care of it, and be responsible for it. If not, he will end up in my sights, and he will not survive the encounter.

Deanimator
June 16, 2007, 10:56 PM
Keep up with your pet. Take care of it, and be responsible for it. If not, he will end up in my sights, and he will not survive the encounter.
I am simply astonished by the number of arrogant pin-heads who think they have a RIGHT to "graze" THEIR "livestock" on OTHER people's property.

I choose not to have any pets. That means I choose not to have anybody ELSE'S pets either.

Aguila Blanca
June 17, 2007, 01:31 AM
A former lady friend used to trap them, have them spayed, and then release them. That, as far as I know, was legal.

I recently had a raccoon mommy take up residence in an inaccessible portion of my attic to bear her litter. I had to hire a professional trapper to catch mommy dearest, then the trapper and I had to partially disassemble the attic to get at the babies. Based on what he told me, in this state (and I'm not going on record in the open forum with which state I live in, so don't bother to ask) only licensed pest control contractors may legally exterminate trapped wildlife.

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

wacki
June 17, 2007, 10:54 AM
I just received this PM:

Either way it shouldn't matter. Getting drunk is bad for me but I still do it. Swimming pools are dangerous but I still own one. Cars are dangerous but I still drive. Motorcycles are pointless but I still support peoples right to do it. Homosexuality (which the far left seems to hold up on a pedestal) and premarital sex is.....

I think I was right with you up until you veered off a cliff.

I drink, swim in pools, drive cars, and I have had 65 bikes in 50 years. Guilty of premarital sex, too, :) but I must be homophobic because I think you turned hard left at this point.

I will likely all of the above with one notable exception...guess which one.

Please re-consider your position, and re-post if appropriate.

Thanks, xxxx


My official stance on homosexuality and far left liberalism is this:

I'm not gay. I think homosexuality is disgusting, a major health risk and certainly not something that goes on in a traditional marriage. Despite this I won't be campaigning to put homosexuals in jail. It's a free country and it should remain a free country. Just don't tell me how to live my life and I won't tell you how to live yours. If a lefty wants me to defend their rights they better damn sure respect mine. Leave my guns alone. I don't care what the statistics say about alcohol, premarital sex, homosexuality and especially guns. You live your life and you let me live mine.

That was the point I was trying to say.

wacki
June 17, 2007, 11:00 AM
Why not just not be an *******, and if you see a feral cat and catch it, go donate it to the humane society or something?

There are 117 cats per square mile in rural Wisconsin. I really doubt the humane society is running short on cats.

trueblue1776
June 17, 2007, 12:20 PM
The Humane Society will just euthanize them anyways, why not save them the trouble of putting them in the freezer?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/8EF2CDB53C0595DB862572F1005F2F1F?OpenDocument

How is me shooting them in the head less humane than giving them to these "animal lovers"?

Bloodthirsty? Fine, it really doesn't hurt my feelings.

Working Man
June 17, 2007, 12:42 PM
We had a big issue with stray cats in the yard. They would crap all over the
patio and give the dogs worms, walk on and scratch up the cars, and chase
and kill things they shouldn't. Once we started trapping them and giving them
to the city our crap/worm problem stopped, cars were cleaner and no more
scratches.

Before we got the newest dog we had about 2 years without one. At that
time a family of rabbits decided to make a home there time and time again.
They were fun to watch and kinda like pets. If you sat on the ground some
of them would walk/hop right up to you. There was a cat that chased a
young rabbit in the back yard but could not chase it into the wood pile. That
was one of the few times I have ever booted an animal.

Pets have no right hunting in my yard. If it was a hawk I would have had no
problems with it.

On a side note.... I have seen 2 rabbits beat the hell out of a cat by ramming it.

trueblue1776
June 17, 2007, 12:56 PM
Australia has the highest rate of mammal extinction in the world. Many of its unique species are threatened with extinction. The Australian Conservation Foundation (ACF) fears the country will lose 50% of its bird species in the next century. According the ACF, the biggest problem is land clearing but according to other parties, the predatory habits of alien species - in particular the domestic cat - is the main threat to Australian native wildlife.

Australia's unique wildlife apparently risks being hunted to extinction unless the cat population is controlled. Native fauna is ill-equipped to deal with this naturalised predator. Three types of cat are recognised: domestic cats which are wholly dependent on humans, unowned stray cats which rely on humans to some extent and feral cats (bush cats) whose reliance on humans is minimal. They can breed 3 or 4 times a year, averaging 4 kittens per litter and can rapidly establish colonies wherever there is a good food source.

1n 1993 there were an estimated 3 million pet cats and 4 million ferals in Australia (Britain has 7 million pet cats and around 1 million ferals) by 1999, there were an estimated 15 million ferals. The difference is largely due to the sampling and estimating methods used rather than exponential growth of the feral cat population. These cats are considered to be responsible for decreasing wildlife numbers despite the fact that pollution, road-building, housing/industrial development, farming and habitat destruction adversely affects many native animals.

At present there is much conflicting 'information' about the amount of damage done by cats in Australia. Some authorities claim that cats are hunting native wildlife to extinction. Others claim cats are unfairly targetted since overclearing and overstocking of land in the late 1800s and the introduction of the Red Fox for sport in 1910 made had a worse impact on wildlife numbers. Sometimes the attempted cures are as bad as the initial problem - a huge number of native animals fall victim to 1080 poison and steel-jaw traps set for bush cats


entire article:
http://www.messybeast.com/ausdilemma.htm

zoom6zoom
June 17, 2007, 01:25 PM
There's a group in my area that puts collection boxes in supermarket lobbies. They are collecting food for "homeless cats". While they may have big hearts, they obviously have small brains - feeding the damn cats only makes the problem exponentially worse.

I always get the urge to drop a box of .22's into the collection.

answerguy
June 17, 2007, 01:39 PM
Funny (to me) cat story:

I was out with a friend in the woods of Michigan partridge hunting. I saw what I assumed was a feral cat and decided to help save the native wildlife and shoot it. I must have winged him and it ran down to the waters edge and started to swim across a narrow channel. I was raising my gun to shoot again when I saw a canoe approaching. I was a little embarrassed at this point thinking that there was a possiblity that the canoeist might own the cat or at least be a cat lover. Apparently he wasn't either. When he saw the situation he yelled out "Shoot him again, he's getting away!"

TallPine
June 17, 2007, 01:45 PM
Obviously, Australia needs to introduce North American wolves to control the wild kitty population. ;)

I will gladly donate a few Montana wolves to help out the cause. I'll even throw in the radio collars for free :D

TEDDY
June 17, 2007, 01:46 PM
I have 5 cats in my yd.their mine.you shoot them and they will never find your body. attitude like some of you have makes me sick.and makes me wounder if I should continue to be a part of this group.

Biker
June 17, 2007, 01:53 PM
Why would your cats be a problem for anyone if they are in your yard?

Biker

jselvy
June 17, 2007, 02:05 PM
Your Cats, your Yard, Your Right to post a No Hunting Sign.
Your Cats, MY Yard, My Right to control an invasive species on MY Land.
What is the problem?

Jefferson

brerrabbit
June 17, 2007, 02:24 PM
Teddy

As Biker and Jefferson have already said: Your yard your rules, my yard my rules.

I have 5 cats in my yd.their mine.you shoot them and they will never find your body. attitude like some of you have makes me sick.and makes me wounder if I should continue to be a part of this group.


With a posting like yours, threatening murder over your inability to control your pets, I wonder if you should continue to be a part of this group also.

craig
June 17, 2007, 02:39 PM
in my county there's a leash law for dogs AND cats. if your pet causes damages that can be proven, you will pay for them.

i live outside the city limits and any animals that do not have a collar and become a nuisance usually go away never to return.

we do have the hunting dogs pass through, but they have collars and vests and don't hang around.

every now and then somebody will get caught dumping an animal, but somebody usually gets a license # and calls the cops.

i'd much rather take care of the dumpers:cuss:, but this is the high road.

Sage of Seattle
June 17, 2007, 03:03 PM
With a posting like yours, threatening murder over your inability to control your pets, I wonder if you should continue to be a part of this group also.

Huh? So his desire to be protective of his cats somehow makes him different than these posts made just recently in a related thread? And he specifically mentioned that his cats are in his yard, so how does that equate to an "inability to control [his] pets"?


I guess I'll be the first to say it...if I caught anyone abusing one of my dogs, all bets are off. They are members of my family, and will be treated as such.

But, I'm with SteveK...I'd protect my dog.

If some psycho held a knife to my dogs neck it would be very difficult for me not to shoot him even if my dog was considered "property" by the state. Heh, guess I'd be spending time in jail then.

Some dogs are more equal than others

Don't mess with my "kids"

I have to assume anyone who threatens harm to my dog is mentally ill and an immediate threat to my life as well. I can only relax that assumption once the threat has been neutralized one way or the other. Hopefully, it can be neutralized with the perpetrator in handcuffs, but if he forces me to use deadly force, that's on him.

Do Not. Mess. Wit my Dawg. To do so jeapordizes your health and general well being.
Not a threat, just a prophesy.

My German shepherd would lay down her life for me at any time. I’ve seen her in action so I know exactly where I speak. She defiantly comes under the heading of family. I have to say that I would do anything needed to protect her.

I would let pretty much anybody kill the family cat with not more than a stern talking-to, but my dog, well, he's family.

My pets are family members and anyone harming my pets would be shot or beaten.

All I can really say is my dog is a member of my family, so if someone tries to hurt her, I would interveen with the force needed to stop it. Even if said force is deadly, but nice to know the law as i live in Portland

Dihappy
June 17, 2007, 03:09 PM
ewww, cats

Biker
June 17, 2007, 03:15 PM
I stand by my statement. What fault can you find with it?

Biker

Zoogster
June 17, 2007, 03:39 PM
Promoting the killing of animals which will usualy be pets, giving immature people an excuse to shoot something and play with thier toys is more likely to hurt RKBA than anything else.

I agree cats in other people's yards may be an annoyance. However cats climb, are very agile and very active. Fencing a yard for a dog or putting them on a leash is possible. Dogs are also a liability loose and can pose a physical threat. This is not an option for cats. Keeping them forever indoors or allowing them outside to actualy be a cat are really the only choices someone has.

If I had a problem with a cat it would get sprayed with something it did not like and I would not see the cat again. It would however manage to find its way back to its loving owner. Animals do not understand property lines.

I do not have a cat where I live because there is tons of coyotes and only the most wild/feral of cats can survive. However with a lage number of mice and some rats I find myself constantly having to set traps, check them, and hunt some with air guns. Cats would totaly solve this problem.

Lots of ground-nesting birds eat insects like ticks and chiggers. Lyme disease is on the increase in humans, as is bubonic plague and hanta virus.
First off most of those pests exist on rodent populations in between larger hosts like deer/coyotes, as they need a steady supply of hosts to survive and are more likely to find a scurrying rodent. Bubonic plague and hanta virus are specificly rodent spread diseases. Cats kill rodents and keep thier numbers low, so more cats actualy means less of these diseases. The cats will of course catch some of the parasites of the animals they kill, however keeping a cat out of your home, and staying away from it is far easier than keeping a disease carrying rodent out or staying away from it.

As far as catching diseases. Small cats are rarely a threat to people unless they are trying to catch them or pick them up. A stray dog may attack you, a stray cat will try to flee unless someone has been feeding it. So if you do not want contact with a cat, it is pretty easy to avoid.

I have dogs, and currently have no cats because of the large coyote population. Yet I find it rather telling and disturbing that many people are quick to make comments of murder and rage over a percieved threat to thier dog, yet actively promote the killing of other people's cats. An eye for an eye perhaps? Perhaps a dead cat desearves a dead dog? Poisoned cat deserves a poisoned doggy steak? Seriously think about your comments. Nobody needs to be harming other people's pets unless they are a threat to thier safety or make you feel in danger. That is pretty hard for a cat to do.

Biker
June 17, 2007, 03:48 PM
A simple solution to a needlessly complex problem: Keep your cats indoors.
Why is this out of the question? If I come to you and demand $400 for a leather seat that your cat ruined, are you going to pony up?
I didn't think so.

Biker

Sage of Seattle
June 17, 2007, 04:07 PM
I stand by my statement. What fault can you find with it?

I'm not faulting you at all, Biker, nor am I faulting anyone I happened to have quoted, except pointing out the apparent hypocrisy of saying that TEDDY is a terrible person for what he said, when there are literally dozens of other almost verbatim posts which seem to get the okey-dokey just because their pets are dogs.

Reading some of the posts in this thread, I'd be somewhat concerned too if I had a Fluffy kitty that even while collared, might just "accidentally" get shot because of the high anti-cat attitudes.

It seems as if just because it's MAH DAWG then that somehow excuses all manner of violence on the owner's behalf.

Now, personally, I'm a cat lover. I don't much care for dogs except for a few breeds, but if the cats are feral, then I'm all for taking them out.

And, Biker, I've got nothing against any poster on THR and all in all, I think it'd be fun to hear some of the stories you could tell over a beer or two.

brerrabbit
June 17, 2007, 04:14 PM
Sage &Teddy

OP was shooting feral cats, not shooting cats in their own yard. I will shoot most strays be they cats or dogs without feeling a bit of remorse. Threatening someones life for shooting your animal on someone elses land is your issue that you do not need to propagate here. Hint : to make it a non issue, keep your animals under control

I do not have the responsibility for verifying that a cat is feral or not on my own property. State law provides them no protection as strays. It will get tossed in the bone pit with all the other strays I shoot. I have my own animals to take care of, I do not need yours.

+1 to Biker about repaying the pets damages.

If you cute little pussikens kills some show chickens and chicks, and I put a bullet in it, are you going to compensate me for my losses when I hand you your dead cat and demand payment for my lost livestock?

If your first reaction is to grab a gun, all I can say is what a coincidence. I have handled getting compensation from people that cannot keep their pets under control, usually dogs though, it can get ugly and I will make it expensive.

Biker
June 17, 2007, 04:18 PM
For the record, I should make it clear that I've never intentionally killed a cat.
My dogs have killed a bunch that they caught in my fenced yard and that was the fault of the cat owners, not my dogs. I've trapped a number of them and called Animal Control to pick them up. What happened to them after that is beyond my control.
I've sent some over the fence with bruises but they lived to irritate another day.
My point is, I don't understand why cat owners - in general - seem to think that it is their God given *right* to allow their animals to roam the neighborhood.
I work hard for the things I have and take offense when folks just chuckle and say "Ah, they're just being cats". I *like* feeding the birds in my yard and get downright pissed when I see a neighbor's cat killing a Robin I invited in to my yard.
I get mad as a mofo when I see a cat digging up and pissing/crapping in my garden.
Tippin' a brew with ya would be my pleasure. I got lots o' stories - some of 'em are even true.

Biker

:)

Deanimator
June 17, 2007, 04:20 PM
Animals do not understand property lines.
But BY LAW, their OWNERS are required to.

Keep YOUR pets on YOUR property, and barring excessive noise from barking dogs, etc., there won't be a problem.

Allow your pets to run free on MY property, and if the city/county won't do anything, they'll be abducted by aliens... or at least they might as well be to you.

.cheese.
June 17, 2007, 04:25 PM
I think the problem here is that Teddy didn't understand the topic. That's all.

Teddy, nobody is going to head over to your yard to hunt your cats. We're talking about feral cats (that's not a breed of cat). Your cats are domestic cats.

Prince Yamato
June 17, 2007, 04:31 PM
If you love your cat, put a collar on it.

I bet "accidental" pet shootings could be eliminated if there was a national database for missing pets. Is there one? Post the pet's picture.

Sage of Seattle
June 17, 2007, 04:35 PM
OP was shooting feral cats, not shooting cats in their own yard.

You're right. As far as I'm concerned, we're both in agreement and I apologize if I came across as attacking you.

wooderson
June 17, 2007, 04:41 PM
There are two different issues in play here.

1. Controlling feral animal populations - an important issue for tree-huggers and rednecks alike.

2. Getting a thrill from killing an otherwise defenseless animal (compared to the hunter): this is completely and utterly insane. Seek help, anyone who finds himself getting a twinge of 'fun' from the act.

Kevin108
June 17, 2007, 04:47 PM
Most places you can't use a firearm within so many hundred yards of a dwelling. I can't imagine where you guys all live that it's okay to run around shooting cats or anything else.

wacki
June 17, 2007, 05:11 PM
There wouldn't be a problem if the cat-lovers took responsibility for their pets. If you enjoy your cats so much, enjoy the whole package and keep them from cr@pping in my garden. Cleaning up after them is part of the deal. Same goes for your dog. By the way, I've never caught a kid or a raptor cr@pping in my roses. If you have a feral problem, call PETA. They will kill them for you. http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

Peta killed 91% of their animals in 2005? wow.

wacki
June 17, 2007, 05:15 PM
"On multiple occasions CHS (Carthage Humane Society) employees were ordered to place kittens and cats in the freezer to euthanize them," the petition says, without providing more detail.

James Spradling, a Carthage lawyer representing the board, said the shelter does euthanize day-old kittens by freezing them, but not older animals. He said this was a more humane method for very young kittens than the gas chamber, which is used for grown animals.
Advertisement


"It's a humane way to do it, not an evil way," Spradling said.

I don't understand how the freezer could be more human for younger cats. Sounds like a crappy way to go. I'd much rather be shot if I'm going to die. And as they say "do unto others as you'd want others to do unto you". :D

JesseL
June 17, 2007, 05:17 PM
I've heard from people around here that have lost five outdoor cats in a year. It's not people shooting them, it's coyotes. I think the local coyote population get more sustenance from eating pets than any of their 'natural' food sources.

People that let their cats roam free are either profoundly ignorant or simply don't have their animals best interests at heart.

wacki
June 17, 2007, 05:35 PM
A former lady friend used to trap them, have them spayed, and then release them. That, as far as I know, was legal.

I recently had a raccoon mommy take up residence in an inaccessible portion of my attic to bear her litter. I had to hire a professional trapper to catch mommy dearest, then the trapper and I had to partially disassemble the attic to get at the babies. Based on what he told me, in this state (and I'm not going on record in the open forum with which state I live in, so don't bother to ask) only licensed pest control contractors may legally exterminate trapped wildlife.

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

He does have a conflict of interest. I'd make sure you see the actual law before trusting someone whose sole business is to do what you could do for free.

Avenger29
June 17, 2007, 06:11 PM
Most places you can't use a firearm within so many hundred yards of a dwelling. I can't imagine where you guys all live that it's okay to run around shooting cats or anything else.

I live out in the country. I can shoot my rifle beside my house, inside my house, outside my house, or wherever I care to.


I just wonder if you city folks that think shooting ferals is wrong have ever lived out in the country. I bet you would change your mind about this issue. We have a huge problem out here. Whenever somebody wants to get rid of their pet(s), they come out here and dump them, taking off the collar. The animal will either starve, get eaten, or become feral. If it is very lucky, it might get adopted by somebody.

That is why I have to shoot stray cats and dogs. I'd rather shoot the person that threw them out. I can't afford the fee to get every stray euthanized. A .22 round or .30-30 round is a whole lot cheaper, and it keeps my pets from getting diseases or injuries from fights with the ferals.

Autolycus
June 17, 2007, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Wacki:
My official stance on homosexuality and far left liberalism is this:

I'm not gay. I think homosexuality is disgusting, a major health risk and certainly not something that goes on in a traditional marriage. Despite this I won't be campaigning to put peter puffers in jail. It's a free country and it should remain a free country. Just don't tell me how to live my life and I won't tell you how to live yours. If a lefty wants me to defend their rights they better damn sure respect mine. Leave my guns alone. I don't care what the statistics say about alcohol, premarital sex, homosexuality and especially guns. You live your life and you let me live mine.

That was the point I was trying to say.


Actually some forms of homosexual sex are safer than straight sex. Do you have any statistics showing how major a health risk it is? Why do you use negative adjectives such as "Peter Puffers" to describe people? That is pretty low road and had you read the terms of service you would know that you should not use those terms on this board.

When I think about this kind of stuff, I ask myself what would Jesus do? Would he call homosexuals names in public, call them disgusting, or not debate in a reasonable way, or would he just allow his blind fear to guide him?

Avenger29
June 17, 2007, 06:17 PM
And why is this thread going into homosexuality, etc.? That is going to get it locked...

We were discussing legality on controlling feral cats (and other animals).

brerrabbit
June 17, 2007, 06:40 PM
Ditto with Avenger

I do not look for pets, they tend to find me. While my previous posts may seem fairly harsh, I do own and raise several strays that people have dropped off. These ones that I have claimed are mine. The rest of them are not mine and I bear no responsibility for them other then when they cross my path.

If you are going to own a pet, and then find you dont like that pet, at least have the moral courage to terminate it yourself rather than dumping it off in the country for either hunger,wild animals, or jerks like me to get rid of.

It is very heartless when you think about it. This animal has had nothing but your love and affection for its whole life, and because of some minor issue, say going #2 in the wrong place, it is getting thrown away like a piece of trash. It knows that the world is upside down when it is physically thrown from your vehicle in the countryside. Then it must either work to survive if it has the instincts for that, or find someone else to love it, feed it, and take care of it before it becomes a tasty little crunch in the night by one of the local predators, all the time wondering where the person that loved one time is.

Sage of Seattle
June 17, 2007, 07:07 PM
It is very heartless when you think about it. This animal has had nothing but your love and affection for its whole life, and because of some minor issue, say going #2 in the wrong place, it is getting thrown away like a piece of trash. It knows that the world is upside down when it is physically thrown from your vehicle in the countryside. Then it must either work to survive if it has the instincts for that, or find someone else to love it, feed it, and take care of it before it becomes a tasty little crunch in the night by one of the local predators, all the time wondering where the person that loved one time is..

Awwww.... I promised myself I wouldn't cry... ;)

Warren
June 17, 2007, 07:18 PM
I bet "accidental" pet shootings could be eliminated if there was a national database for missing pets. Is there one? Post the pet's picture.

Oh the irony of putting a cat's picture on a milk carton.

pacodelahoya
June 17, 2007, 07:38 PM
http://www.bumperart.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=2004011316&productID=636



I hear cats taste like General Tsoes chicken.:evil:

OAKTOWN
June 17, 2007, 07:55 PM
It's important that feral populations be controlled (coyotes seem to do this pretty well). Feral cats do a number on native birds, reptiles and ampibians. California is moving to mandatory spay and neuter with both cats and dogs. It's too bad this has to be government mandated, but people have proven too stupid and lazy to do it themselves. There are also feral cat programs in most counties that use different strategies to control the populations.

Unfortunately some people just like to kill cats for giggles and use the whole feral things as a smoke screen. This happens both in rural and suburban areas. I would advise those people to be careful, especially if they live near me...

wacki
June 17, 2007, 08:14 PM
I have dogs, and currently have no cats because of the large coyote population. Yet I find it rather telling and disturbing that many people are quick to make comments of murder and rage over a percieved threat to thier dog, yet actively promote the killing of other people's cats. An eye for an eye perhaps? Perhaps a dead cat desearves a dead dog? Poisoned cat deserves a poisoned doggy steak? Seriously think about your comments. Nobody needs to be harming other people's pets unless they are a threat to thier safety or make you feel in danger.

I would never harm anyone else's pet and I don't think very many here would either. An invasive feral animal is fair game though. I don't care if it's a rabbit, frog, dog or cat. If a little population control is needed to protect biodiversity then I'd actually encourage people to go out and do so.

cracked butt
June 17, 2007, 09:24 PM
Most places you can't use a firearm within so many hundred yards of a dwelling. I can't imagine where you guys all live that it's okay to run around shooting cats or anything else.

It might not be legally ok, but there are silent ways to deal with pests- .22 colibris, bow and arrow, traps. I can't say I've personally killed a cat, but I warned a neighbor of mine 2 house down after I chased his cat off that was stalking cardinals that nest on my property. He was cool about it and I never saw the cat again. Most of my neighbors are originally from rural areas, our backyards are borderd by a cornfield and miles of marsh, its very common to control pests such as rabbits, ground squirrels, and possums in my neighborhood by the means listed above.

wacki
June 17, 2007, 09:30 PM
If you love your cat, put a collar on it.

I bet "accidental" pet shootings could be eliminated if there was a national database for missing pets. Is there one? Post the pet's picture.

lol. I laughed pretty hard at this one.

wacki
June 17, 2007, 09:34 PM
And people who have fun killing cats are insane and should be put in a white straight jacket and thrown in a padded room until their desire to kill cats for fun is gone.

Colt1911a2,

Would you say the same thing about deer and turkey hunters? Seriously what is the difference between a deer and a feral cat?

jselvy
June 17, 2007, 09:36 PM
Cat is stringier and has less meat.
But the fur makes nice underwear :D

Jefferson

HardKnox
June 17, 2007, 10:01 PM
CRACKED BUTT SAID: I sure as heck wouldn't hesitate to shoot an invasive species (cat) in an area where woodcock, grouse, and turkeys nest.

wouldnt you be an invasive species in thier nesting area? would you shoot yourself? i mean your just killing the parents, why mess with the other other hunter?

pax
June 17, 2007, 10:05 PM
This thread is borderline enough without dragging homosexuality into it. I can't even figure out how that got into a thread about feral cats, and I'm sure as heck not going to go back and investigate, for fear of what I might find. *sigh*

It's gotta be the absolute worst case of thread-jacking I've ever seen, after more than a decade online. That's quite an accomplishment.

You guys want to argue over the rightness or wrongness of someone else's brand of sexuality, don't do it anywhere on THR. See the Forum Rules (http://www.thehighroad.org/code-of-conduct.html).

pax

PS Yes, I deleted a few posts (not all related to homosexuality, either). If yours was one of them and you truly can't figure out why, feel free to drop me a PM and ask.

brerrabbit
June 18, 2007, 12:21 AM
To all the folks trying to blame folks in the country for zapping feral pets as a thinly veiled methods of getting jollies.

I do not get my jollies on getting rid of strays. I do not boast about it to my friends, I do not gut shoot them to extend the play time with them etc. It is a necessary part of of life out here in the boonies due to idiots that cannot manage the animals they got for amusement and could not handle. Or on OP, kittens that they did not socialize and were allowed to grow up and run away.

I think about killing strays about as much as I do vehicle mantenance. I do not look foward to doing it but I see it as needed if I wish to continue my lifestyle as a farmer/manual laborer. I think about as much of killing one of your pets that you have allowed to roam as I do changing the oil in my truck. Let an animal that you have dropped off kill one of my animals or livestock, if I find you, I will make your life as miserable as I can through the courts.

I have a 7 year old cat and a 2 year old cat that are both stays. They are both semi feral but very loving and they keep my rodent population down around the house. The wild blood in them give them enough smarts to stay away from the predators around here. I have gone through a lot of city cats that did not know how to stay away from predators or how to hunt. I currently have one boxer mix that someone dropped off, I am not sure, but based on his attention span and trainability, the guy that dropped him off was an idiot.

ebd10
June 18, 2007, 01:19 AM
Quote:
CRACKED BUTT SAID: I sure as heck wouldn't hesitate to shoot an invasive species (cat) in an area where woodcock, grouse, and turkeys nest.

wouldnt you be an invasive species in thier nesting area? would you shoot yourself? i mean your just killing the parents, why mess with the other other hunter?



This one gets my vote for most ridiculous post.

That said, feral cats are not just pests, they are a health hazard to domestic pets. They do not belong in nature, they need to be exterminated along with nutria, zebra mussels, and starlings.

Art Eatman
June 18, 2007, 01:25 AM
Anybody who thinks feral cats aren't any particular problem has spent very little time outdoors. Hasn't read much from wildlife biologists or talked to animal-shelter folks. The Wisconsin study is valid. There are other, similar studies with similar conclusions. Bottom line? Basically, the only good feral cat is a dead feral cat.

Feral cats are incredibly destructive to smaller forms of native wildlife. They will kill for pleasure as well as for food, as you can tell when you find an entire covey of quail, dead, and some feathered remains from the only one that was eaten. The cat will attack at night, biting the head and holding the bird to prevent flopping--and then "repeat as necessary". If there is any notable local population of feral cats, there will be few songbirds around, and few squirrels or cottontail rabbits.

I've passed up shots at deer in order to kill a feral cat. No regrets, either. A feral cat is one of the very few things I'd kill with no compunction whatsoever.

Art

Geno
June 18, 2007, 01:34 AM
Read my post and you will understand why I hate people who feed ferel cats:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=220235&highlight=emergency+room

Doc2005

wacki
June 18, 2007, 02:22 AM
Doc2005, can you explain this?

The only thing worse than ferel cats would be foxes.

http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2682359&postcount=33

Also your PM box is turned off.

Steak
June 18, 2007, 07:21 AM
This sounds like making up an excuse to kill people's pets. My daughters cat, kills rats (a good thing) and has no collar. It is her pet. I am no fan of cats, they have no loyalty. But, if you kill my daughters cat, I will kill your dog, your chickens, and whatever other animal you have. Some people keep lizards and snakes as pets. Worthless, stupid animals. I will kill them too. Sounds like fun! You guys just want to kill things for little reason other than bloodlust. I have a question, do you eat those cats too?

And biker, cats don't understand property lines. Your dog might not either, can I kill your dog if it leaves the yard? Even if it is not harming me?

Jamie C.
June 18, 2007, 07:36 AM
I don't know about the rest of the world, but Tennessee has a leash law... and it applies to both cats and dogs.

For most rural counties, that law is enforced with a gun, as a rule. It was here, where I am, until the county finally got an animal shelter/animal control facility built. But still, even for that, problem animals are generally dealt with by individual property owners. ( There are more feral animals here than Animal Control has staff or room to cope with. )

Oh and one last thing... to anybody carrying on about what happens to your pet when it's left outside on it's own, without being in a fence or on a leash; keep the damned thing up, if you value it so much.

Also, have your pet spayed or neutered. Then there won't be near so many feral animals causing problems, and requiring other folks to have to put them down.

I've had to shoot several ferals, over the years... and I really hate doing it. I'd much rather get my hands on their worthless owners ( or the owners of the animals that caused them to be born ), since those are the real source of the problem.

The bottom line is that your pet's health, welfare, and general well-being are YOUR responsibility. Don't put it off on the rest of the world.


J.C.

brerrabbit
June 18, 2007, 08:51 AM
Steak

I love the typical reaction about shooting animals that you have. Guilt? Are you one of the folks that feels their animals have the right to run free without regard to other peoples property lines?

I really doubt if you are willing to start a feud , one that will result in you going to jail and your property sold to compensate the livestock owner, over an animal that you did not care enough for to keep under control in the first place.

The onus is on you, the pet owner to keep your animal controlled. My method of controlling your pet is a bit more severe than yours.

I understand that cats do not understand property lines, I generally do not zap pets. but considering the nearest house to mine is about a mile away and they do not keep cats. Pretty much any cat I see that is not one of mine can be considered feral.

Since no one has pointed it out before, if any of you are going to dump an animal in the countryside, at least have the decency to remove the collar from the animal. It makes targeting the animal a bit easier because the locals all have a collar on their animals. It also prevents a pretty gruesome death if your animal goes wild and grows out of the collar enough to strangle.

Biker
June 18, 2007, 09:20 AM
Note that I don't kill cats, I trap them and turn them over to animal control.
Fact is, my dog is contained in a large fenced yard and while cats don't understand property lines, cat owners do. Therefore, be responsible and keep your cat locked up and it won't end up taking the big gas nap.
Sound fair?

Biker

Dravur
June 18, 2007, 10:31 AM
More furry critters with which to use my varmint guns...

ok, things to get....

pans of Lasagna....
alot of .17 HMR ammo..
a terrier named Odie....

Gonna make me a big orange and black kitty skin rug for in front of the fire. My Cattle Dog will love it.

wacki
June 18, 2007, 10:37 AM
My daughters cat, kills rats (a good thing) and has no collar.

No collar? Well that is one brilliant idea. I suggest you invest about $2 and fix that. This is a really basic step in protecting your cat and your daughter is just asking for trouble.

But, if you kill my daughters cat, I will kill your dog, your chickens, and whatever other animal you have.

Quite a strong reaction from someone that doesn't take the most minimal of precautions to warn other people that it's a pet and not feral animal.

Sounds like fun! You guys just want to kill things for little reason other than bloodlust.

Did you not see the links and quotes in the very first post? I mean I even bolded and highlighted some important stuff in bright red. It's kind of hard to miss.

I have a question, do you eat those cats too?

I have never had cat but I don't see why one wouldn't eat what they kill.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3039/catmarketdq6.jpg

Apparently it's pretty popular in Korea, China, and eastern Europe. Heck you can even order it online:
http://www.kittybeef.com/
Welcome to Kitty Beef, your online Premium Cat Meat Supermarket, where you can order your meat, and have it delivered in vacuum sealed freshness directly to your door. We provide top quality meat and stand by all our products.

lol @ the name.


And biker, cats don't understand property lines.

Invest a few bucks in a collar. If you are really worried try this invisible fence product line.

http://www.invisiblefence.com/product_solutions/index.asp?v=nav

http://www.invisiblefence.com/images/common/illustrations/outdoor_steps_play.jpg
They have stuff just for cats:
http://www.invisiblefence.com/product_solutions/cats/index.asp?v=nav

Theres no excuse for not being able to control your cat. An electric fence will guarantee your cat knows it's boundaries.

Geno
June 18, 2007, 11:03 AM
I agree with Biker. I just spent half a ton of cash to have a fence installed on our property to keep our dogs home. I don't know about others' laws, but here, all pets that are in public must be registered, collared, tagged. If they are not, I assure you, they will be what I call live-"bagged". I have live traps and I take the critters to animal control.

Note that if you reread that thread I posted, we also have laws that allow for sueing those people who are negligent with their pets. If you love your pet so much, control it. It did and I do! Cats can be controlled. I had cats for years. They are indoor pets, not outdoor.

Wacki: According to the local DNR officers, foxes are the only critters that kill more ducklings, pheasant, rabbits, etc than ferel cats. But, ferel cats are a very close second place.

Steak: your comment that "...if you kill my daughters cat, I will kill your dog, your chickens, and whatever other animal you have" is way over the top. I encourage you to re-read THR standards, and subsequently edit your post. Everything that we write here, after a few days, can nolonger be edited. It will become a permanent public record for all to see. Imagine how delightful a quote for the antis, that a gunowner went on the public record, threatening life as retribution. I don't think this is what God had in mind Re: an eye for an eye.

After you modify your quote, I will do likewise. Until then, I will leave the quote in mine, so that at worst, the antis will know that I went on the record in opposition to threats on life.

fspitzdorf
June 18, 2007, 11:13 AM
I live across the road from a 300 head dairy farm... In the middle of no-where... Feral cats are a real issue here... The farmer feeds them (as well as the raccoons, possum and skunk) as they help keep rodent population down. Issue is, people drop of strays so the population builds, cats breed and make little cats, cats fight and spread disease... Last time i was across the road ( a week ago) i lost count after 140... THAT IS A LOT OF CATS...

My GF adopted one that followed her home from the place a few years back and 2 weeks and $120 later it was dead... as it had feline AIDS... We told the neighbor bout this and he erradicated the herd he had at the time (that he could get a shot at) but as we can see the population has exploded...

Weekly i catch a cat in my live trap that i keep by the barn for raccoons, etc which like to steal my chicken eggs... generally that cat gets dropped off somewhere on my way to work... My GF doesn't care for me uthenizing them... But if she isn't looking, the 22 makes quick work of them while they sit on the edge of the dumpster licking their chops. I've also had a few die in the barn as they thought the fly bait (used for fly & rodent control) was blue kool-aide or something...

Most that i trap or eliminate are sickly malnourished looking things... generally with respritory infections, etc...

Nothing like running out the front door at 2 am on a sumemr night with the scatter gun or 22 to chase off the cats screaming under your bedroom window as they are just mating away...

feral animals are a nuisance....

MD_Willington
June 18, 2007, 01:09 PM
Cats also kill plenty of rodents--most people think that's a good thing.


Hey they also keep the coyotes from eating my garbage and the neighbors chickens...

...but they crap all over the place and that's just not cool for my pregnant wife and two young children that enjoy a POOP FREE sandbox...

I think next week I'll go drop a stanley steamer on my neighbors porch and see if they complain about it...

:rolleyes:

Titan6
June 18, 2007, 01:44 PM
Feral cats came pretty close to wiping out the game bird population on some other property I hunt on. I have never owned a cat. This left me with a bunch of cats that I did no. I don't like cats. The cats would not even eat the field mice that were invading the old farm house. 15 boxes of mouse poison later the mouse problem was resolved. The cat problem started to resolve itself as well. Luckily the birds started to recover.

If the cats come back I will shoot them. If people really loved the little furry, cuddly animals they would not let them run loose and disrupt the enviornment.

Same for dogs. A dog gets loose once in a blue moon I can see it. A dog does not "get loose" every day at 5PM and wander around my land killing chickens or emptying my traps. If a friendly chat and then a good talking to does not work you will never see Fido again and I won't discuss it ever again either. I am not going to call animal control and wait a half an hour or half a day for them to show up and do nothing.

If you love your "pet" keep it on your property and obey the law.

HiWayMan
June 18, 2007, 02:55 PM
Some of you have referenced the local humane society. This is expensive to taxpayers. My village just got a bill from our county humane society for all the feral cats people in the area have turned into them. For one year the bill was $22,000. This is a town of about 5000 people. That means it costs every tax payer $4 a year becuase people won't control their damn cats.

Good thing I found the litter of 5 under the porch. I saved the taxpayers and myself some money the old fashioned way. Just doing my civic duty.

Prince Yamato
June 18, 2007, 04:06 PM
"...if you kill my daughters cat, I will kill your dog, your chickens, and whatever other animal you have" is way over the top.

Let me also remind you that in states that allow you shoot to defend your property, you'd risk your own life because you were too negligent to pay $0.99 for a cat collar. Keep your cat on your own land.

And Wacki... careful with your invisible fence posting... you're encouraging people to take responsibility for their pets :)

Art Eatman
June 18, 2007, 04:19 PM
Steak, feral cats are not pets. Okay? Not. Pets. We're talking about cats that are not associated with a particular house, with particular humans. Wild. Feral.

SFAIK, if it's legal to discharge a firearm in a particular area, it's legal to shoot a feral cat. It's legal to trap feral cats and then do as you wish, insofar as Texas law.

Or you can take the time to try to tame one into being a true pet. Nothing wrong with that.

But the tamest, gentlest, spayed, declawed Haus Putty is instantly willing to kill a bird or squirrel or mouse as soon as it sees one. Only the amount of effort will vary with how well fed is that particular cat. For their size they're one of the world's most efficient killing machines.

Art

Carl N. Brown
June 18, 2007, 04:45 PM
Over the years, we have had dogs and cats as pets, sometimes
both at the same time (we had a Siamese cat who raised a
Chinese bulldog pup as her "kitten").

Sometimes it is hard for cat or dog lovers to realize that feral
dogs and feral cats are not the pets that we know and love.
Feral dogs and feral cats are dangerous predators which
are often destructive of the environment and wildlife.
Sometimes they must be put down. I will not forget the
time I could not leave my car at the family cemetery in
the country because a pack of ten or so neglected, mixed
breed, collarless strays had my car surrounded.

It is no more heinous to trap and exterminate feral cats than
it is to trap and exterminate rats or any other destructive
vermin. What really raises my ire are the people who abandon
pets to become feral, when they should have the decency to
either take care of them properly, adopt them out or put them
down themselves. The real problem is irresponsible pet owners
(oh, excuse me, the P.C. term is "pet care givers.") While I
do not doubt there are all-cat-haters (or all-dog-haters) who
would kill any cat (or any dog) for kicks, I have encountered
no one yet who enjoys gratuitously killing feral cats
or feral dogs: they would rather not have the bother.

Nanook
June 18, 2007, 06:19 PM
When they first showed up there were maybe 10 my mother said, "Awww... that's terrible. They have no home. YOU CAN'T KILL THEM!!! " Now there is something like 150-200 roaming the neighborhood.

Oh no! INBRED feral cats! :evil:

Jamie C.
June 18, 2007, 09:59 PM
Steak, feral cats are not pets. Okay? Not. Pets. We're talking about cats that are not associated with a particular house, with particular humans. Wild. Feral.

Anybody that has an un-neutered male cat that they allow to run loose is directly contributing to the feral cat population.

And yes, I'd rather shoot that one tomcat than have to deal with the two or three dozen feral kittens that I encounter here every year. ( Caught 6 out of 2 litters last year. 2 got away, my mom kept 2 of the ones i caught, one of which later died. Haven't gotten either of the two "moms" or the father in the right place at the right time yet, or they'd be history. Have already heard kittens crying in the woods this spring, no doubt due to the three adult ferals mentioned above. )

I should mention that I have 6 dogs, all kept in a fenced in yard, and never left out unsupervised.
I refuse to pay a vet bill because of them getting ahold of a diseased cat, or getting their faces torn up because of encountering one.

The bottom line is, an animal that crosses my property line is in danger of dying, no questions asked. Anybody that doesn't like it can take it up with the Sheriff. ( He'll inform you of what the fines are for letting your animal run loose, and send you on your way. )


J.C.

Avenger29
June 18, 2007, 10:39 PM
This sounds like making up an excuse to kill people's pets. My daughters cat, kills rats (a good thing) and has no collar. It is her pet. I am no fan of cats, they have no loyalty. But, if you kill my daughters cat, I will kill your dog, your chickens, and whatever other animal you have. Some people keep lizards and snakes as pets. Worthless, stupid animals. I will kill them too. Sounds like fun! You guys just want to kill things for little reason other than bloodlust. I have a question, do you eat those cats too?

And biker, cats don't understand property lines. Your dog might not either, can I kill your dog if it leaves the yard? Even if it is not harming me?

First of all, I am not bloodthirsty. I hate to kill an animal, be it dog, cat, or other. I have had to kill both dogs and cats in the past. We are talking feral animals here. These usually result from idiots dumping thier unwanted pets out near my property. Those are the only dogs and cats in danger of getting shot by me. I am not coming onto your property to shoot your cat, okay?

And the last cat I shot had it easy. It died after the first .22 round. I doubletapped to make sure.

The last dog I had to shoot with a .22 (because it was all I had), had a painful death. Considering it took 28 rounds before it expired, screaming all the way. Do you know what a dog sounds like it when it is shot? It ain't nice.

And threatning people who own guns is not a good idea at all. Especially people who have more firepower than some small armies.

And it ain't anywhere near the highroad. And if you are going to be immature like this, you are welcome to leave this board.

Highland Ranger
June 18, 2007, 11:04 PM
Threads like this are scary. From the cat-lover over-reaction, to the childish threats . . . . . homosexuality and Jesus? I think I missed a few posts.

No matter - bottom line is this silliness does nothing for the advancement of 2nd amendment rights.

Very suprised the thread isn't closed yet.

It needs to be.

Wire
June 19, 2007, 12:09 AM
It's too bad this has to be government mandated, but people have proven too stupid and lazy to do it themselves.

There's a scary precedent...

Geno
June 19, 2007, 02:38 AM
This thread needs closed.

wacki
June 19, 2007, 04:41 AM
Threads like this are scary. From the cat-lover over-reaction, to the childish threats . . . . . homosexuality and Jesus? I think I missed a few posts.


This thread involves the use of traps and firearms to exterminate feral animals. Such a deed is obviously highly controversial and needs to be discussed for a wide variety of reasons. Everything from the cat lovers in this thread that refuse to put a bell & collar on their pets to the 217 million birds slaughtered each year in Wisconsin by ferals is important.

No matter - bottom line is this silliness does nothing for the advancement of 2nd amendment rights.

60% of the birds in the US have disappeared in the last 20 years. And maybe you missed this post:

Australia has the highest rate of mammal extinction in the world. Many of its unique species are threatened with extinction. The Australian Conservation Foundation (ACF) fears the country will lose 50% of its bird species in the next century. According the ACF, the biggest problem is land clearing but according to other parties, the predatory habits of alien species - in particular the domestic cat - is the main threat to Australian native wildlife.

http://www.messybeast.com/ausdilemma.htm

I really don't see how anyone with half a brain and half a heart can claim that is a "silly" situation that doesn't need to be discussed.

If feral animals are going to be mitigated then firearms are going to be a significant part of a multi-facet solution. While this thread has taken some unfortunate twists and turns (i am to blame for at least some of that) I learned a lot from this thread and I'm very glad so many took part in it. If the thread is locked fine. I just hope it isn't locked because some people find killing a poor little kitty offensive. Biodiversity is very important to the health of our ecosystem and I hope most people at THR understand that. It saddens me when so many people that claim they care about animals and the environment don't have the stomach to even TOLERATE what needs to be done or take some super basic precautions like neutering their cat or putting on a 99 cent collar.

A week ago I wouldn't have cared about neutered cats and would have thought very ill of those who shot ferals. Now I will likely verbally reprimand every cat owner I know that doesn't take care of their cat and defend feral hunters. This thread has played a significant role in solidifying my about face. And for that I thankyou THR. I learned a lot from this thread.

evan price
June 19, 2007, 04:55 AM
I live in the country.
When I moved in the neighbors across the lane had a dozen semi-wild cats living in their garage. I was told they were all dumped cats that decided to move in. Over the years they bred and bred and inbred and more were dumped. I counted almost 60 cats hanging around their house. They would literally cut open a ten-pound sack of generic cat food and dump it on the floor. The smell was overpowering. Then I discovered a broken crawlspace vent under my house and found a cat colony living in there. I live trapped 14 cats in two days after closing off the broken vent. My wife neutered the males and we released them. The females we sent off with a friend who was a state game warden in another state who had visited and knew a no-kill shelter who would take them. Over the next months we systematically trapped and neutered every male in the colony. For the next 5 years the cat population decreased dramatically to manageable levels. Natural predation (coyotes, hawks, cars) took care of dropping the population and the neutered males couldn't get the queens pregnant.
Then the neighbors got a female cat. It was pregnant and threw a litter of 8 kittens. The kids thought they were cute so they kept them. Those 8 (some were males) inbred and became 24. Now there has been another litter and I counted 30 cats, kittens and adoloscent kitties hanging around. They use my flowerbeds for litterboxes, we hear cat yowling and fighting every night, and my and my neighbor's cats, who are collared, belled, spayed or neutered and stay pretty much in our yards, are getting chased away from our own food bowls. The scratches on the cars are not fun. My neighbor put up a new screen door and the screen was shredded a few days later. My front porch smells like cat urine. We are frankly sick of it. Now there have been more litter dumps and a friend of a neighbor dumped their inside cats because they were moving and saw all the cats and figured it was OK. WRONG!!

Since we live in the country (WAAY in the country) I've taken to laying on my roof with a scoped .22 rifle and taking care of those that enter my grounds.
Shoot, shovel, shuddup.
Actually, it's shoot, drag to the hayfield, let the vultures and coyotes hide the evidence. They have to eat too, ya know?

wacki
June 19, 2007, 04:57 AM
Just one more thing to add. One of my friends has a cat and claims a bell on his neck is very effective at protecting song birds. The cat still catches tons of rodents but doesn't get any birds. Obviously some people here have had different results.

Tecumseh, I suggest you invest in a 99 cent collar w/ a bell.

Jamie C.
June 19, 2007, 05:21 AM
One of my friends has a cat and claims a bell on his neck is very effective at protecting song birds.

I used to have a 90 pound Husky/Malamute mix.
If ever there was an animal not built to catch birds, he was it.

Didn't keep him from bringing us about a hundred finches, blue jays, starlings, etc.

I don't know how he did it, but he did indeed do it.
( He also managed to catch and kill a feral cat once, while he was on a chain. Squashed it flat and broke every bone in it's body, but never drew blood. )

So you'll have to pardon me if I don't see a bell as being a significant method of keeping an animal that is built to catch birds from doing it. :p;):D

Oh, and Wacki... my hat's off to you for your "about-face". I wish it was so easy with the anti-gun folks. Or for that matter, quite a number of other pet owners I know.

And as for anyone that can't make a connection between feral cats and guns... think it through:

How many people think they have rights, but you and I don't?

"Wadda ya mean?", I hear 'em say...

Well, some folks think they have a right to let their pets do as they please, even if it's on someone else's property, but that the property owner doesn't have a right to do anything about it. And some folks think they have a right to feel safe, but that you and I don't have the right to do what we deem necessary to feel the same.

I wonder if both these groups aren't the same people, when it comes right down to it?

Anyway, yeah, it is all the same... the politics of rights and responsibility. Some folk want the one, but shirk the other.

But ain't that always been the way of it?


J.C.

Titan6
June 19, 2007, 09:43 AM
A bell does not keep a cat from climbing into a nest and slaughtering the young birds. This is how they killed off the game birds at my place. Cats are an invasive species. They wreck the ecosystem and need to be dealt with quickly. I failed to recognize that early on and paid the price.

Highland Ranger
June 19, 2007, 09:52 AM
I really don't see how anyone with half a brain and half a heart can claim that is a "silly" situation that doesn't need to be discussed.


Personal attacks aside:

1. Species come and species go. Get over it. I don't see where songbirds are any more important to the ecosystem than cats. Don't bother quoting any pop science - I am of the larger universe philsophy that says this is the nature of things.

2. What someone does on their property is their business. Move on big brother.

3. Never been a big cat or bird lover. Don't mind them. No desire or need to shoot them. Do own and like dogs; nice animals. But I know folks that shoot all three on THEIR property and understand why.

I just finished your discussion (Jesus and homsexuals aside of course.)

Back to my original point, this is primarily a second amendment rights forum.

Go to a nature, religious or "lifestyles" forum to disucss the other stuff.

There are enough bad stereotypes out there for gun owners without providing visions of bloodthirsty gun owners stomping kittens and shooting everything in sight.

Again - a vote for terminating this [largely] off topic disucssion.

trueblue1776
June 19, 2007, 10:02 AM
Species come and species go.

There are enough bad stereotypes out there for gun owners...

and there's one more.


I haven't seen to many species coming these days, maybe they heard I shoot cats.

Highland Ranger
June 19, 2007, 10:44 AM
So then you agree - close the thread because it is detrimental to the site mission of supporting 2a rights?

And by the way, not that I want to contribute to this silliness (too late I guess) but the hubris of man always brings a smile to my face.

How arrogant we are to think that compared to the greatness and majesty of nature and creation that we matter. Or that our brief consciousness dictates that we have somehow earned some stewardship role for creation.

Silly mortal.

jselvy
June 19, 2007, 10:48 AM
Legitimate uses and exercises of the second amendment are within the purview of this forum. I cannot see where we have exceeded that except for the nonsequiteurs about religion and sexuality.

Jefferson

TamThompson
June 19, 2007, 05:24 PM
What really hurts--and maybe this is my femaleness talking--is when you lose a cat and they go feral. We took in 3 wonderful kittens last summer, and one of them ran off..and thank God we found her 2 days later, alive and well, 3/4 mile down the gravel road.

But then another one ran away, and we didn't see her until about 6 months later. (We'd had her only 6 weeks, yet grown attached to her.) She's living 3/4 mile down the gravel road, where a nice lady feeds about 20-30 feral cats. Our former cat is now feral, and I dread the day when nice lady and her husband pass away and move, someone new buys the place...and our former cat is shot. That would break my heart.

We have tried to get our former cat to come to us, but she doesn't seem to recognize us anymore. It's sad...she's a nice cat...and we see her sometimes...but she's wild now... :(

TamThompson
June 19, 2007, 05:26 PM
NOTE: We live waaaay out in the country, on 16 acres, and so yes, we do let our cats out. Barbed wire fences don't keep them in, either, they just go under them.

wacki
June 19, 2007, 08:05 PM
How arrogant we are to think that compared to the greatness and majesty of nature and creation that we matter.

This is the de facto argument put forth by those that either don't study or don't care about the environment. Humans have caused so many species to go extinct it's amazes me that people can still get away with this argument. I mean the great buffalo hunts of the west are pretty common topics in grade school. Yet people don't seem to remember that either. Another obvious one is many species of whales and the dodo bird. Yet for some reason people are seduced by the thought that we don't matter so none of our actions have repercussions. It's complete baloney.


Or that our brief consciousness dictates that we have somehow earned some stewardship role for creation.

Silly mortal.

You can make the argument that you don't care. That is a moral decision and one you have every right to express. But there are plenty of monetary, pharmaceutical, disease resistance and environmental/health reasons to have a diverse biosphere.

jselvy
June 19, 2007, 08:09 PM
Buffalo aren't extinct

Jefferson

AntiqueCollector
June 19, 2007, 08:16 PM
Feral cats destroy my vegetable gardens, they're dead cats. End of story. Sometimes mouse traps and rat traps deter them after they get caught in them once or twice, but it's not enough. A neighbor has 16 cats in a two room apartment. Disgusting. Cats are everywhere here, they're worse than rats IMHO because they're not as easy to kill without some foolish person whining about it.

Jamie C.
June 19, 2007, 08:17 PM
Buffalo aren't extinct

Okay, try looking up "Passenger Pigeon".


J.C.

wacki
June 19, 2007, 08:17 PM
1. Species come and species go. Get over it. I don't see where songbirds are any more important to the ecosystem than cats. Don't bother quoting any pop science - I am of the larger universe philsophy that says this is the nature of things.


So you express your opinion and then say you aren't going to listen to anything scientific. You remind me of the anti-gunner at the bookstore.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=283280

wacki
June 19, 2007, 08:27 PM
Buffalo aren't extinct

Jefferson

I didn't say they were. But back in grade school my history teachers taught my class how people on trains used to shoot buffalo in the west and leave their carcases to rot.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1238/shootingbuffalobn9.jpg

Buffalo went from being the main source of food for the Indians to numbering around 1 to 2 thousand.

In fact, when the Texas Legislature was discussing a bill to protect the buffalo, General Philip Sheridan defended the buffalo hunters and opposed the bill by saying:

”These men have done more in the last two years, and will do more in the next year, to settle the vexed Indian question, than the entire regular army has done in the last forty years. They are destroying the Indians' commissary. And it is a well known fact that an army losing its base of supplies is placed at a great disadvantage. Send them powder and lead, if you will; but for a lasting peace, let them kill, skin, and sell until the buffaloes are exterminated. Then your prairies can be covered with speckled cattle.”

Anyone that thinks man is insignificant is plain naive. Heck we've even depleted 90% of our oceans large fish.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/05/14/coolsc.disappearingfish/

What we do does have an impact. You may not care but facts are facts and BS is BS.

Highland Ranger
June 19, 2007, 08:56 PM
And what we did to dinosaurs . . . terrible. Oh wait, that wasn't evil (capitalist) man . . . . .

And speaking of BS, the buy line for that article says 90% of the world's LARGEST fish.

You see, you left a word out there and in so doing changed the meaning.

And the article itself is more pop science nonsense advancing this latest brand of eco-socialism. There are no FACTS presented. Not even a link to the study itself. Just representations of what may be factual. More pop news and pop science.

And for the eco-socialism, animals are great, humans are evil crowd it's only supporting facts that are useful. That and personal attacks and insults.

Because if I don't agree with you I can't be too bright.

Right?

jselvy
June 19, 2007, 08:59 PM
Pigeons are sky rats

Jefferson

trueblue1776
June 19, 2007, 09:02 PM
Pigeons are sky rats

Guess you don't eat (Rock) Cornish Hens, you're missing out.

wacki
June 19, 2007, 09:11 PM
And what we did to dinosaurs . . . terrible. Oh wait, that wasn't evil (capitalist) man . . . . .

Using this argument you could say: "why should we care about nuclear weapons when the planet used to be part of that giant nuclear bomb called a star"?

And speaking of BS, the buy line for that article says 90% of the world's LARGEST fish.

You see, you left a word out there and in so doing changed the meaning.

It's Large fish. Tuna is included in that category. The distinction shouldn't really need to be said because not very many people order 2" long fish at fancy restaurants. But whatever, I stand corrected.

And the article itself is more pop science nonsense advancing this latest brand of eco-socialism. There are no FACTS presented. Not even a link to the study itself. Just representations of what may be factual. More pop news and pop science.

Well here is one of several studies.
http://www.fisherieswatch.org/docs/261.pdf

Nature is a top scientific journal. Feel free to search google scholar for more facts.

Because if I don't agree with you I can't be too bright.

Right?

No, part of my job is to congratulate and reward those who correct me. I actually LOVE it when people teach me something I didn't know before. But when people use arguments like "oh the dinosaurs went extinct so all extinctions are natural" then I start to have serious doubts about your reasoning ability. I don't know if that is the exact argument you were using but it certainly seems that way. Maybe you were just saying you just don't give a damn. Either way it's not very good logic.

Like I said before you can argue that we shouldn't care on a moral basis. And I will defend your right to hold that opinion. But the argument that man has no impact is just naive.

jselvy
June 19, 2007, 09:22 PM
Nope it's called foul (fowl) for a reason

Jefferson

ptmmatssc
June 19, 2007, 09:33 PM
I'm just going to say this :

Cats come on MY property , leaving their excrement on MY property , killing birds at MY bird feeders(not to eat , just for fun) , get into MY garbage , and antagonize MY pets . I would contact the owners , but since their are no collars on them , it's hard to tell who they belong to . I'm no PI and I don't play one on TV . Therefore it's not MY job to find out who's letting their "pets" roam free. If an animal is on my property causing ANY form form of damage ,and it does not have a collar , then it has met it's executioner . Yes I have pets , including 2 cats and a dog . But none get off property , and all have a collar to show that they are actual pets. Now is it a real "pet" if the only time you see it is when it comes home every couple of days to "sleep it off" ?

No collar on my property=feral=dead
Collar on my property =catch=give owner one chance to keep "pet" alive

Highland Ranger
June 19, 2007, 10:16 PM
So let's see, I lost count of the personal attacks but I only have half a brain, half a heart and I'm dumb. It used to be that those kinds of statements were frowned on here. But I guess things have changed, and not for the better.

Good luck with the cats, buffalo, tuna et al.

wacki
June 19, 2007, 10:56 PM
So let's see, I lost count of the personal attacks but I only have half a brain, half a heart

The half a brain and half a heart comment was in regards to discussion only and not on moral decision. If one has half a brain or half an ounce of respect for the some of the best and brightest or even the most experienced of us they will at least be open enough to hear the evidence from people that either spend their lives studying this stuff or the farmers and fishers that see it with their own eyes. It really doesn't take that much effort.

I've repeatedly said I will defend the rights of people who claim they don't care. Listening to a fellow human and not caring about animals are two completely different things.

and I'm dumb. It used to be that those kinds of statements were frowned on here.

You asked a question and I answered. If you don't like the answer then don't ask. I was pretty precise in making the qualification "if you claim *all* extinctions are natural because the dinosaurs went extinct via natural causes". You can either choose to stand by that reasoning or you can abandon it. We all make mistakes.

jaholder1971
June 19, 2007, 10:58 PM
Obviously, Australia needs to introduce North American wolves to control the wild kitty population.

Part of Australia's problems is that they keep bringing in animals to "control" the pests. Never seems to work for them.

Art Eatman
June 19, 2007, 11:04 PM
Cats? Dinosaurs? Extinctions?

Whee!

Never a dull moment when folks go to talking about the other white meat.

:D, Art

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