I CANNOT believe you can't open carry in texas


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bhhacker
June 16, 2007, 11:59 AM
Anyone know the reasoning behind this? Is it just because it can scare people? To me, it just seems rediculous. Anyones input is appreciated.

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scurtis_34471
June 16, 2007, 12:20 PM
It is a bit ironic that Texas and Florida, which are two of the more gun-friendly states in the country and have better reciprosity than anyone else both ban open carry. Go figure.

Still, how hard is it to throw on a cover garment, use an IWB or throw a mouse gun in your pocket? I don't think I'd open carry much if it was allowed, because of the crap I'd be sure to get from people. Then, there's the "shoot me first" factor. Nope. I'd stick with concealed.

Keep in mind that a tucked T-Shirt with an unbuttoned Hawaiian shirt over the top won't attract any attention at all in a state with a hot climate. Some people might think it screams "questionable taste," but very few people think it screams "gun." I can walk around all day with an XD-40 Service in an OWB holster without any issues at all.

budder
June 16, 2007, 12:28 PM
I don't know why it's not allowed, but I do know that TXCDL: http://txcdl.org/ is trying to fix it. I'm not a resident of TX anymore, but I hope you guys can get some OC legislation passed soon.

M2 Carbine
June 16, 2007, 01:11 PM
bhhacker
Anyone know the reasoning behind this? Is it just because it can scare people? To me, it just seems rediculous. Anyones input is appreciated.

Some people think it makes you a target.

For instance if I was bent on doing no good, first I would neutralize anyone I saw with a gun.


Right after TX got the concealed carry, a co-worker's wife was in a Quick Stop holdup where the BG didn't pay attention to the two elderly ladies behind him. When the BG faced the clerk and pulled a gun on him one of the ladies pulled a 38 and cocked it while sticking it in the BG's ear. According to the co-worker's wife the elderly lady said, "Please don't drop your gun. I just spent a lot of money so I can kill you". The BG not only dropped his gun but pis*** himself.:D


I would like to see us have a choice. I'd probably open carry half the time.

Vern Humphrey
June 16, 2007, 01:20 PM
Some people think it makes you a target.

And the proof of that is that police carry openly, and the streets are littered with the dead bodies of cops.

LittleLebowski
June 16, 2007, 01:28 PM
Littered? Cops are dying left and right solely because of the weapon their hip? Any corroborating evidence to back that claim?

rantingredneck
June 16, 2007, 01:31 PM
I think Vern was being sarcastic. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. :)

LittleLebowski
June 16, 2007, 01:32 PM
Gotcha, sorry about that.

Vern Humphrey
June 16, 2007, 01:34 PM
Littered? Cops are dying left and right solely because of the weapon their hip? Any corroborating evidence to back that claim?

What, you mean the streets aren't littered with dead cops? Even though cops carry openly?

Gee . . . that must mean that open carry doesn't make you a target.

Car Knocker
June 16, 2007, 01:36 PM
The first time I read the TX CCW laws, I was amazed at how restrictive they are.

M2 Carbine
June 16, 2007, 01:38 PM
Vern Humphrey

Some people think it makes you a target.

And the proof of that is that police carry openly, and the streets are littered with the dead bodies of cops.

That's not a reasonable comparison to Joe blow standing in a line at a 7-11 with a 45 on his hip.
All that will acomplish is the BG will leave with the store's money and a nice 45

Has an armed bank guard ever been a deterrent in a bank robbery? Probably almost never.
The guard is the first thing they take out and if you're gun was showing you would go down with the bank guard.

It's foolish to advertize that you have a gun.

zahc
June 16, 2007, 02:25 PM
I'm planning on moving to TX. I'm disgusted at the gun laws, Texans should be ashamed. If there' one state in the union where you should be able to go around strapped, if there was a LAST state to ban open carry, it should be texas. Here in Ohio we have our problems with our CCW law too but at least I'm not a criminal if my shirt rides up.

Vern Humphrey
June 16, 2007, 02:29 PM
That's not a reasonable comparison to Joe blow standing in a line at a 7-11 with a 45 on his hip.
All that will acomplish is the BG will leave with the store's money and a nice 45

Has an armed bank guard ever been a deterrent in a bank robbery? Probably almost never.

Never?!? Not ever?!?!

In point of fact, most retailers and armored car companies seem to think armed guards are a deterrent.
The guard is the first thing they take out and if you're gun was showing you would go down with the bank guard.

Riiiiiight. In states with open carry, the streets are littered with the bodies of people shot down for carrying openly.

Blackfork
June 16, 2007, 02:44 PM
Texas laws are not much better and frequently worse compared to many states. It's a struggle to get clearer, simpler better law on the books, plus to get folks to enforce the clarifications. The TSRA has twice gone back and had the "traveling" provision re-defined only to have district attorneys thumb their noses at the new state law and instruct their police to arrest people anyway. Not to mention the State Troopers being found overcharging for the CCL program and building an off-budget slush fund with the extra.

No open carry. The legislature killed the future of hunting a few years ago with a youth safety act requiring state training for hunters. Every session sees some big city legislator introduce a bill to ban handguns, register firearms, tax ammunition, require safe storage, et, et, et. All those bills have to be answered and fought.

Did you know you can be arrested on your own property for killing a poisonous snake with a firearm (outside city limits!)...unless you have a valid hunting license and drivers license on your person? The State Fish and Game lobbyists are very powerful.

On the other hand, like everyone else, we do have a big, fat, healthy, growing bureacracy with many perks, privileges and pensions for its members.

And a huge prison system.

M2 Carbine
June 16, 2007, 03:51 PM
Vern Humphrey
Riiiiiight. In states with open carry, the streets are littered with the bodies of people shot down for carrying openly.

Come back to earth.

I doubt that anyone thinks walking down the street open carry will get you randomly shot but if you get in the way of a BG determined to do a job, the fact that you have shown him that you have a gun will cause him to either change his mind or just take you out first.

I would like to see TX get open carry but I still say it's foolish to advertise that you are carrying a gun.

varoadking
June 16, 2007, 03:55 PM
Anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Pretty sound reasoning if you ask me. I think open carry is stupid, for any number of reasons...

Vern Humphrey
June 16, 2007, 04:03 PM
Come back to earth.

If I don't seem to be on the same planet as yourself, you might check your nautical almanac.

I doubt that anyone thinks walking down the street open carry will get you randomly shot but if you get in the way of a BG determined to do a job, the fact that you have shown him that you have a gun will cause him to either change his mind or just take you out first.

Cops get in the way of BGs determined to do a job all the time (that's their job) but BGs rarely go looking for cops to shoot.

There is no evidence that being openly armed exposes you to any special danger -- and the converse is probably true, people who would pick on you avoid you when they know you're armed.

Vern Humphrey
June 16, 2007, 04:04 PM
Pretty sound reasoning if you ask me. I think open carry is stupid, for any number of reasons...

Where in the Constitution does it say "I think it's stupid" is grounds for setting aside the Bill of Rights?

M2 Carbine
June 16, 2007, 04:17 PM
There is no evidence that being openly armed exposes you to any special danger -- and the converse is probably true, people who would pick on you avoid you when they know you're armed.

I don't disagree.
Since I'm not opposed to open carry and there's no way to prove if it is a deterrent or not, it's a waste of time arguing the good or bad of it.


Personally, the way I look at it is if I turned BG I would sure like to know if any of my victims was armed. Then I'd act accordingly.
Maybe seeing a open carry in line at a 7-11 I'd go someplace else.
Maybe seeing a open carry in a jewelry store I'd take that man out first.

cloudcroft
June 16, 2007, 04:17 PM
bhhacker,

Well, you COULD OC in Texas...way back prior to 1872 when the courts ruled against it...you know, during Reconstruction after the Civil War when the Union and assorted Carpetbaggers didn't want ex-Confederate soldiers (such as "Outlaw Josey Wales") packing heat...some say also they didn't want free Blacks carrying, either.

So, Texas USED to have OC...but not for 135 years now.

But we ARE trying to change that...join us:

http://txcdl.org/

-- John D.

varoadking
June 16, 2007, 05:43 PM
Where in the Constitution does it say "I think it's stupid" is grounds for setting aside the Bill of Rights?

All rights are subject to law...

The Constitution does not mention the subsequent 10 individual Amendments that comprise the Bill of Rights - be it the Second or otherwise - only the process to propose an Amendment. But then, I'm certain you knew that...

Vern Humphrey
June 16, 2007, 05:51 PM
All rights are subject to law...

The Constitution does not mention the subsequent 10 individual Amendments that comprise the Bill of Rights - be it the Second or otherwise - only the process to propose an Amendment. But then, I'm certain you knew that...

Are you trying to say a mere law can set aside the Constitution? Or that there are no rights specified in the Bill of Rights?

CypherNinja
June 16, 2007, 06:16 PM
I think it's only logical that OC might make you a target.

How much of a target remains open to debate. :D



(I'd imagine that some BG's would put you at the top of the list, some would be highly conflicted, and some would just say "F$&@ this" and go somewhere else. The proportions of said critters could be argued until the end of time, there's no way to answer it.)

Vern Humphrey
June 16, 2007, 07:13 PM
I think it's only logical that OC might make you a target.

How much of a target remains open to debate.

That line could have come from Handgun Control's playbook

"I think it's only logical that having a gun might make you a target."

"I think it's only logical that the criminal would take your gun away from you."

"I think it's only logical that a gun in the house is more likely to kill a family member."

And on and on and on.

JohnKSa
June 16, 2007, 11:13 PM
Hard to argue that disallowing open carry is infringing on your right to "keep & bear". They're not saying you can't carry, just that you have to follow the rules. Just as there are rules regulating every other right...

BAT1
June 16, 2007, 11:53 PM
And to think the west was won with unregistered guns.

Deaf Smith
June 17, 2007, 12:16 AM
Here is the skinny on open carry in Texas.

Back in the dark days after the War of Nothern Agression (also known as the Civil War), the Yankie carpetbaggers (also know as administrators of the reconstruction era government) decided that no one was to carry handguns, since their firepower was so much greater than the muzzle loaders the Yankie police had. Thus one could only carry if they were 'traveling'. Since the term 'traveling' was not defined it allowed the carper... I mean administrators to charge the person with a violation of the law.

That law has been on the books so long it's just mighty hard to get rid of. Notice Vermont, Arizona, New Mexico, Alaska, and I dunno what other states allow open carry. Even Louisana allows carrying the gun in the glove compartment of ones car! Even Florida allows one to carry a sap, or large knife, or club, instead of just a handgun (as per CHL rules here in Texas.) What is even more strange is I can carry a AK-47, with LOTS of loaded mags in my car, sans CHL, and it's ok-dokie, but heaven forbid I pack a handgun or a bayonet that goes to that AK!

Yes we Texan's do have our own set of weird laws. And the laws on packing heat are weird in many ways (but gloriously better than New York!)

cloudcroft
June 17, 2007, 01:00 AM
Vern,

I agree wth you, that's a common ignorant statement about OCing, but CypherNinja just needs to wise up.

I hope he's on the way to "enlightenment" now after reading this thread.

-- John D.

9x19
June 17, 2007, 01:18 AM
Here in Ohio we have our problems with our CCW law too but at least I'm not a criminal if my shirt rides up.

That doesn't make you a criminal here either, Texas law requires you make a reasonable attempt to keep your weapon concealed... windy days won't get you thrown in jail... being from Ohio, on the other hand... might! :D

obxned
June 17, 2007, 01:26 AM
Forrest Gump can explain it.

Desertscout
June 17, 2007, 01:27 AM
Someone said above that Texas was one of the most gun-friendly states? BS! TX has some of the most restrictive laws around. Not as bad as CT, MA and quite a few others but certainly way worse than NM, AZ, CO, UT. WY, MT, NV, IN and others.

There is not a shred of evidence or a case in the U.S. that anyone has ever been able to come up with that any credence whatsoever to the ASSumption that open-carry makes you a target. Out here in the west, there are thousands of us that carry openly everyday and I'm one of them. Why do I carry openly? Here's why...

There are a select few states that allow it's citizens to carry their weapons out in the open without asking permission from there government but there is a FEWER select few citizens that choose to exercise that right for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

There are quite a few establishments nowadays that choose to post signs that prohibit the carry of firearms, openly or concealed, within their walls. This is another of the many things that gives me deep and lasting indigestion. If you don't want to be robbed or have a disgruntled employee take out his frustration on your patrons, why do you create such a "hazard-free environment" for those that might perpetrate such a crime? Do you seriously think that a guy intent on robbing your store, or worse, is going to walk up to your door, see your "No Guns" sign and say, "Darn!, I sooooooo wanted to rob this place but the sign says I can't bring my gun in so I guess I'll just have to go somewhere else."? No, by posting that sign, you have pretty much assured the criminal that there is little, if any, chance that he will be confronted. When trained, credible, responsible citizens carry their weapons in your store and give you their business, you should be grateful that, at least for the time that they are present, your business is protected. At least from violent crime. Most of us will not shoot someone for stealing money as it is replaceable and probably insured. However, I have never met a legitimate gun-toter that would not intervene if someone were to threaten innocents or start shooting.

I think that many post those signs because of fear of the image that some of the patrons might get, not for liability reasons.

It is my opinion that if those who do carry regularly WOULD carry openly more often, it would help to desensitize those whom some people are afraid they are going to offend. Well, it offends ME when someone is offended by my carrying (which is RARELY an issue here in NM). I have my rights just like they have theirs. They have the right to get up and go eat somewhere else if they happen to come into a restaurant where I am eating. They have the right to run home screaming if they see me walking down the street and I am armed. I, on the other hand, have the right to do anything that they can do and their being there doesn't affect me one way or the other. The reason that gun rights are in the shape that they are in is because we gunowners continuously pander to "them" and try to compromise to a point that is OK with "them". We walk around and hide what we do or give certain rights away to retain others. That's not freedom to me.

I don't "flaunt" it as some have said. I think that if one is going to carry openly that they should dress neatly and wear your gear professionally and conservatively. I don't think that it's appropriate to wear a 7.5" Super Blackhawk downtown in cheap nylon Wal-Mart holster. Yes, occasionally when I come in from hunting or something and I'm carrying a .44, I may stop to get a Coke or gas or something but I'm not gonna take my gun off just because someone else may not approve of it but what I wear daily is a Glock 23 in a Blade Tech belt holster with my shirt tail tucked in. I dress neatly and there is nothing threatening about my appearance (unless you feel threatened by someone that 6"4", 250 pounds and wearing a gun ). Once in a while, I get a question or two but I have yet to experience the fear and panic that some claim is going to happen.

Occassionally, someone tells me how much that they value the 2nd amendment. Well, so do I...as it was written. Not as they would have me to accept it. Having said all that, I do believe that there are a very few places where it may not be appropriate to wear openly like church or some business meetings or picking the kids up at the Boys and Girls Club. In those few places, I do carry but it is concealed. If it's an impromptu occasion, I simply untuck my shirt and let it cover the gun. If it's planned, like church, I wear a Glock 27 in a Blade Tech IWB and a jacket or vest.

I don't "flaunt" it, make a big deal out of it or handle it in any manner when in public and I have NEVER had any problem.

I WILL NOT CRAWL AROUND AND EXERCISE MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS ONLY WHEN IT IS ACCEPTABLE WITH SOMEONE ELSE OR WHERE THEY CANNOT SEE!

There are those who will not stand up for a passing flag unless a few people around them do. Well I am the one around them that is first to stand. I could care less what everyone around me does. I have a man to face every day in the mirror and someone else to face when I leave this world. I plan to be able to walk uprightly before Him and say that I have done the best I could to uphold and exercise the rights and freedoms that I was blessed with at my birth.

"All those in favor of losing their rights, please do nothing!"

cloudcroft
June 17, 2007, 01:35 AM
Desertscout,

Like lots of motorcycle owners here in El Paso, I like to ride up to Las Cruces on old HWY 28 sometimes. Heading out on Country Club Rd., as soon as I cross the NM state line after crossing the Rio Grande, I put on my OC gun and continue up to Las Cruces. :)

Of course, when I return, it has to go back into the saddlebag. :(

-- John D.

P.S. I read your post above but I'm still not clear on EXACTLY how you feel about this issue...;)

Desertscout
June 17, 2007, 01:37 AM
Feels good, doesn't it?

cloudcroft
June 17, 2007, 01:38 AM
Yes...freedom does that to you.

-- John D.

CPshooter
June 17, 2007, 01:58 AM
I hate anti-gun states and stupid gun control laws, but I like this law. I personally don't want to know exactly which "law-abiding citizens" are toting guns right behind me when I'm in line at the grocery store. Sorry, but it would make me nervous if i was aware of some gothic punk behind me that was carrying a loaded .45 on his waist. Police and security personnel are one thing, but I agree with the statement about how all the open carry people are just making themselves targets.

People just need to conceal them and not let it be known that they are packing in public. They are self-defense tools, NOT intimidation tools. Just my 2 cents..

chris in va
June 17, 2007, 02:34 AM
Ok, I read everyone's post and have an answer why OC is a good thing.

If your shirt rides up in the wind or you print while reaching down for your dropped napkin at the local coffee shop, no problem. You're fine per the law.

That's it.

Personally I don't care much for OC although I do it for entertainment value occasionally. Most of the time I'm pretty meek and don't like confrontation. Just the other day I had a blisninny tell me she "doesn't approve" while standing in line at a gas station.:rolleyes:

Now if you enjoy comments behind your back and the rare 'man with a gun' call to 911, by all means go for it.

BTW I can't wait for VA lawmakers to get rid of the OC requirement at ABC establishments.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
June 17, 2007, 02:42 AM
"And a huge prison system."

And an express lane on death row.

I don't feel 'overly restriced' by TxCHL laws, and I've had my CHL for 7 years now. Given the option of 'open carry', I'd be open-carrying a FAL. Of course, we can do such a thing here now, provided we're not carrying it in a 'reckless or negligent manner'.

One thing to consider is that although our legislature meets only every 18 months, no man's life, liberty or property is safe when they are in session.

I do prefer my 'stealthier option' of carrying concealed.

Regards,
Rabbit.

KenpoProfessor
June 17, 2007, 07:55 AM
CPShooter, I'm not exactly sure why you're responding like a gun grabber, you sound like the Brady Bunch with your, "I don't think so" and "Police and security people" attitude. Who cares if a Goth punk has a .45 strapped on, it's his right to do so and yours to go somewhere else if you don't like the clientele. People with your attitude about guns is why the gun is so targeted by our legislators.

I live in an open carry state, and I encourage everyone I meet to do so because it's our right to do so. A right not used is a right taken away, and I should know coming from such a restrictive state. I now enjoy my rights as they were meant to be and I open carry everytiime I go out, even though I should have a CCW in about a week. I could care less who I scare with a gun, and the more people that open carry, the more accepted it will become so they aren't scared.

Have a great open carry Kenpo day

Clyde

Hyaloid
June 17, 2007, 08:12 AM
I hate anti-gun states and stupid gun control laws, but I like this law. I personally don't want to know exactly which "law-abiding citizens" are toting guns right behind me when I'm in line at the grocery store. Sorry, but it would make me nervous if i was aware of some gothic punk behind me that was carrying a loaded .45 on his waist. Police and security personnel are one thing, but I agree with the statement about how all the open carry people are just making themselves targets.

People just need to conceal them and not let it be known that they are packing in public. They are self-defense tools, NOT intimidation tools. Just my 2 cents..


Antigun citizen: I like the laws that ban firearms. It would make me nervous thinking that some gothic punk behind me was carrying a LOADED .45 on his waist. I think that someone who would want to carry a gun are just making themselves a target, because the badguy will just take it away from you and use it against you.

People just need to call 911 and not carry a gun. Guns are used to kill people, anyone who wanted to carry is obviously just compensating for something else, or is trying to be "intimidating" and thinks they are Rambo. I am sorry, but I don't want my family caught in the crossfire.

These laws sure make me "feel" safe!



Golly, see any parallels there?

LoadedDrum
June 17, 2007, 09:14 AM
If I was fortunate enough to move to a state with open carry I would celebrate by walking around with G19 loaded with a G18 mag at least once.

Double Naught Spy
June 17, 2007, 10:16 AM
I CANNOT believe you can't open carry in texas

I am at a loss for this. What is particular about Texas that you think it would be a state allowing open carry?

DougW
June 17, 2007, 11:10 AM
I am amused at the number of comments about Texas Laws from those that don't live here!

One of the biggest problems is that tiny blue zit in the middle of an otherwise red state. That blue spot is Travis county, home of our capitol, Austin. Travis county is the one that brought us Ronnie Earl (DA, which is a good description of this fine piece of work of an individual). Getting a CHL law passed in this state was a long road to begin with. The legislature passed the necessary legislation twice when we had Ma Richards (Dem) as Governor, only to have the law vetoed. It tool a Republican Governor (George W. Bush, for those that don't know) to get the law signed finally.

There have been changes in the law over the past years the that have clarified the enforcement issues. Open Carry is being worked on, and so are the removal of ALL restrictions currently on the books concerning where a CHL holder can legally carry (this INCLUDES public schools and state government buildings). Is it perfect, no. Show me a state this size that is.

Johnny Guest
June 17, 2007, 11:52 AM
- - But opened up in the wrong forum. The topic does not relate solely to Handguns: Autoloaders, but to mode of carry laws for ANY type handguns.

Moved to Legal and Political.

Johnny

Zundfolge
June 17, 2007, 11:54 AM
Some people think it makes you a target.
That may or may not be true, but it has nothing to do with why the law in Texas prohibits open carry.

Its more about liberals in Austin being afraid of guns than anything else.



I still chuckle when people figure out that the notion that Texas is some super gun-friendly state is just a myth :p

wingman
June 17, 2007, 12:30 PM
I prefer concealed carry as I like the element of suprise, but the option should
be ours.

Elza
June 17, 2007, 01:26 PM
Zundfolge: I still chuckle when people figure out that the notion that Texas is some super gun-friendly state is just a mythYes and no. Texas is very gun-friendly in some ways but not in others. It is something of a patchwork. It drives me nuts and I’ve lived here for 23 years! But to me it is an absolute paradise. I escaped from the PRK when I moved here. Virtually anything is an improvement over the PRK! :)

TallPine
June 17, 2007, 01:38 PM
Still, how hard is it to throw on a cover garment, use an IWB or throw a mouse gun in your pocket?
You miss the point, which is that in a lot of states folks may carry a sidearm openly without asking the government for permission to exercise a "right" :rolleyes:

LittleLebowski
June 17, 2007, 01:40 PM
We should start a "PRK Survivors" thread. I'm in VA now and loving CCW and open carry.

jselvy
June 17, 2007, 01:55 PM
Kommiefornia survivors support group? Sign me up, veteran of Lawndale and Torrance California residence. Now headed from Scotland to Wyoming.

Jefferson

Elza
June 17, 2007, 02:04 PM
LittleLebowski: We should start a "PRK Survivors" thread.Maybe we can get it in the form of a ‘sticky’ thread. :D

tulsamal
June 17, 2007, 02:30 PM
I would like to see TX get open carry but I still say it's foolish to advertise that you are carrying a gun.

Well, I haven't actually taken out an ad yet...

Too many people think of open carry and exclusively think of walking around at the mall with a .44 Magnum on your belt. If I'm going to town, I use my CCW. But Oklahoma is really weird about this whole open carry thing as well. I go for walks. I live 5.5 miles from Vinita. Dirt roads. A house every 3-400 yards at best. I prefer to just wear shorts and a t-shirt along with tennis shoes.

As the deputy sheriff asked after he had me face down in the gravel with a Glock pointed at my head, "why do you need to be carrying a gun out here?" It's just easier to open carry than to go concealed. Plus I can take a more versatile and powerful gun. If I CCW in town, it is pretty much all about SD from humans. Out in the country walking rural roads, you do still have to worry about that. But now there is a much higher chance your attackers will be in a big steel truck. So you need something that can penetrate and/or disable a vehicle. (My house is only 2.5 miles from a turnpike exit so I always think of In Cold Blood.) I walk along my own fence line for a while and I might see some wily coyote off in the distance trying to get away. Then I might just have to step off the side of the road and start shooting at him. Not going to do that with a .38 Special snub!

I've had some feral dogs circle me. I've had skunks that hung around and seemed a little iffy. As you can see, I like to carry a gun for a lot of reasons. And my normal carry isn't the right choice. If I can just snap on a US Army pistol belt and put a holster on that, I can carry pretty much anything. If I have to CCW, then I have to wear more clothes or carry something like a shoulder bag. Which I've done with my G35 and .357 SIG barrel. But it's hotter and bangs around more than a regular holster would.

Here's my last point to illustrate my point. If you owned a few hundred acres and you were going to go work on fences, etc, and you had the same concerns as I do when I'm walking, what would you carry? I'm willing to bet most of you wouldn't CCW your utility ranch gun. Skeeter and Elmer sure didn't! But I can't wear that same gun when I'm out walking 5-6 miles unless I want to be eating gravel again!

Here's the link to that incident that I posted right after it happened: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80795

Gregg

pacodelahoya
June 17, 2007, 02:37 PM
Can anyone please provide a link to the mythical"the bad guy will take his gun if he open carrys incedent". I know others have asked before but I have yet to see one verifiable instance.

And those 30;06 signs have to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Even here on the east coast in Pa, no guns signs legally don't mean squat. If the owner or manager asks you to leave and you don't it is just a tresspassing charge. We have open carry too.

ctdonath
June 17, 2007, 02:48 PM
Anyone know the reasoning behind this?Um...out of sight, out of mind? No OC means those scared by guns won't see any, and thus won't be scared - they like that. No OC means those carrying can do so without scaring others. Happy medium.

anygunanywhere
June 17, 2007, 03:08 PM
Seems a lot of non-Texicans are upset at our laws. No, we can not open carry, but we are far from being a Chicago Daleystan or NYC Bloombergstan.

The open carry ban dates back to post-War of Northern Agression. The carpetbaggers actually banned it to prevent "violence". We could get into a debate on the racist roots of the gun ban culture, but the question was about open carry.

Lighten up! Folks from Ohio should not be throwing stones. You just fixed the ridiculous car carry lunacy.

This legislative session Texans defeated ALL anti-gun legislation and passed several key pieces, including our "Stand Your Ground" (We already had a decent "Castle Doctrine" and redefined "travel" to allow unlicensed car carry. Our Legislature only meets every two years for 120 days. Reform takes time. Our people behind the scenes hammer the cogresscritters with bills every two years. We have some very active pro-gun types.

We are working towards open carry, and a gentleman provided the link in a prior post to the organization driving the cause. I am a member.

If I was to P&M about gun laws, I would hammer the commie pinko socialist gun grabber places first. I can pack in a lot of states thanks to reciprocity as can lots of you touristas that visit my lovely state.

And you can not be charged for flashing. There are no laws against printing. It is illegal to brandish in a threatening manner, in other words, intentional failure to conceal.

Facts, folks.

God Bless Texas.

Anygun

KenpoProfessor
June 17, 2007, 03:57 PM
I still can't believe that people think we should hide our guns so we don't scare people. Who cares if they're scared, it isn't my problem they have a problem with guns. You may as well say fat chicks shouldn't walk around in tight pants and belly shirts cuz it scares me.

Get your 2nd amendment right out of the closet and on your hip in full view, the more that open carry the less scared people will be when it becomes commonplace.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

cloudcroft
June 17, 2007, 04:12 PM
anygunanywhere,

Hey...just a "Hello" to you seeing that you were a "neighbor" for a while. I was down in Galveston twice first half of May...did a bunch of surf/pier/shore fishing...mostly gafftopsails and small ones at that. :(

Hope to go back soon...and Padre Island/Port Aransas, too.

Gun related? Yes...I had my Beretta 21A (concealed) and my shorty Mossberg 500 in the car. :)

-- John D.

Vern Humphrey
June 17, 2007, 04:32 PM
Hard to argue that disallowing open carry is infringing on your right to "keep & bear".
Hard to argue that disallowing large magazines is infringing on your right to "keep & bear".

Hard to argue that disallowing semi-automatics is infringing on your right to "keep & bear".

Hard to argue that disallowing pistol grips and bayonet lugs is infringing on your right to "keep & bear".

And on, and on, and on.

jselvy
June 17, 2007, 04:44 PM
Here I thought that the Bear part of "Keep and Bear" guaranteed open carry,as is bearing the weapon.

Silly me

Jefferson

.cheese.
June 17, 2007, 04:51 PM
Hard to argue that disallowing large magazines is infringing on your right to "keep & bear".

Hard to argue that disallowing semi-automatics is infringing on your right to "keep & bear".

Hard to argue that disallowing pistol grips and bayonet lugs is infringing on your right to "keep & bear".

And on, and on, and on.

You didn't mention the more obvious argument.

Disallowing open carry is essentially saying, "You can carry so long as I don't see or know about it."

Now what if there were laws against free speech such as that? "You can say whatever you want, so long as nobody hears you."

It's absolutely an infringement.

Vern Humphrey
June 17, 2007, 04:57 PM
Here I thought that the Bear part of "Keep and Bear" guaranteed open carry,as is bearing the weapon.

Silly you. You probably thought that "shall not be infringed" meant "shall not be infringed," too, didn't you?

jselvy
June 17, 2007, 05:05 PM
Yeah I did.
But I have recently been informed, on another gun board, that the constitution is not law so I won't make that mistake again.

Jefferson

JohnKSa
June 17, 2007, 05:57 PM
Here I thought that the Bear part of "Keep and Bear" guaranteed open carry,as is bearing the weapon.So you thought that "bear" was only used to mean "bear openly" in the 18th century? Interesting... :rolleyes: You probably thought that "shall not be infringed" meant "shall not be infringed," too, didn't you?Name one constitutional right that may be exercised totally free of regulation or rule of law.Now what if there were laws against free speech such as that? "You can say whatever you want, so long as nobody hears you."Very poor comparison. Speech is totally ineffective if it's not heard while carrying a gun concealed is, in at least some ways, MORE effective than carrying openly.

Vern Humphrey
June 17, 2007, 05:58 PM
Don't feed the trolls.

.cheese.
June 17, 2007, 06:01 PM
You're drawing a parallel in a meaningless fashion. Speech is totally ineffective if it's not heard while carrying a gun concealed is, in at least some ways, MORE effective than carrying openly.

And if you can't carry concealed in certain circumstances... you can't carry at all..... which is an incredibly ineffective method of protecting yourself.

jselvy
June 17, 2007, 06:04 PM
carrying a gun concealed is, in at least some ways, MORE effective than carrying openly.
effectiveness is subjective.
Name one constitutional right that may be exercised totally free of regulation or rule of law.
Just because all constitutional rights are infringed does Not make that infringement legal (constitutionally) or acceptable (personally).
So you thought that "bear" was only used to mean "bear openly" in the 18th century?
I object to the word "Only", I never wrote word one about any other form of carry. It is beyond a reasonable doubt that the authors of said document surely had open carry in mind when it was written as concealable firearms were rare.
Anything else I can help you with?

Jefferson

JohnKSa
June 17, 2007, 06:05 PM
Don't feed the trolls.??!!And if you can't carry concealed in certain circumstances... you can't carry at all..... which is an incredibly ineffective method of protecting yourself.The sky is blue because of Rayleigh scattering. Oh, I'm sorry, were we supposed to be making RELEVANT comments? :confused:It is beyond a reasonable doubt that the authors of said document surely had open carry in mind when it was written as concealable firearms were rare.Unless you can prove that they were not just rare but non-existent then your "beyond a reasonable doubt" vanishes.Just because all constitutional rights are infringed does Not make that infringement legal (constitutionally) or acceptable (personally).So you claim the entire system we base our country on is gefurkt and yet you're spending your time complaining about having to wear a cover garment in Texas?

I started posting on this before it was moved to L&P--I'm gonna have to quit now, I can't stand it in here.

pacodelahoya
June 17, 2007, 06:30 PM
How about this... only the 2A says shall not be infringed.
in·fringe /ɪnˈfrɪndʒ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-frinj] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -fringed, -fring·ing.
–verb (used with object) 1. to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress: to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule.
–verb (used without object) 2. to encroach or trespass (usually fol. by on or upon): Don't infringe on his privacy.


Definition 1 is the one we are concerned with I think.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be violated, transgressed or breached. Pretty easy to understand.

jselvy
June 17, 2007, 06:47 PM
Unless you can prove that they were not just rare but non-existent then your "beyond a reasonable doubt" vanishes. No, I have to prove that at the time of writing a majority of arms in the public eye were not concealed. Easily done as at the end of the war of independence the arms that at the forefront of public opinion were not side arms but state of the art assault weapons equivalent of the arms of the standing army of the largest and strongest empire extant. I submit that mere handguns would have been beneath the notice of the people at such a time.

So you claim the entire system we base our country on is gefurkt and yet you're spending your time complaining about having to wear a cover garment in Texas? Part and parcel of the larger question. No infringement should escape my notice as a citizen of the United States. I never complained and I resent your insinuation that I have done so. The law is quite clear and makes no delineation between concealable and non-concealable arms. If you personally choose to conceal you sidearm, that is a personal choice and protected by the self same amendment that protects my personal choice to bear arms openly. It is a personal choice and therefore not the business of government.
Was that all? or did I miss something?

Jefferson

El Tejon
June 17, 2007, 06:59 PM
bh, to understand the politics you have to go back to the Florida reform efform in the mid-'80s. Ms. Hammer had to include the concealment requirement to placate the police bureaucracy that wished to maintain their self-claimed monopoly on the demonstration of violence.

Official police unions objected to citizens carrying arms and being mistaken for the police. Of course, there were the mandatory references to the Old West.

In the mid-90s another big electoral state, Texas, copied their statute from Florida. Since Florida's law included a concealment requirement, so did the Texas statute.

Texas has very strict laws on guns. However, they are getting better. I have been going down since '95. In 12 short years things have been getting better and better for Texicanos. Pretty soon they will almost be as good as we have it (even though you have a long road ahead of you), but you have to fight.:)

rino451
June 17, 2007, 07:00 PM
With regard to open carry and increased odds of death...
There are two types of felons- one that will kill and one that won't.

Now with OC, the one that won't will more than likely, move on.

That leaves that one that will kill during the commission of a crime (let's assume that the crime isn't murder otherwise the risks associated with OC is moot). So, you think that they wouldn't risk killing to cover their tracks when they're already ready to kill to steal, rape, etc? They by definition will kill, so you're not any more likely to get killed if you OC. May more likely to get killed first, but...

ETA don't know if it was mentioned before, but TX has open rifle carry. Not that you wouldn't get hassled.

TallPine
June 17, 2007, 07:03 PM
If you owned a few hundred acres and you were going to go work on fences, etc, and you had the same concerns as I do when I'm walking, what would you carry? I'm willing to bet most of you wouldn't CCW your utility ranch gun.
I'm a big fan of open carry, but I've found that when working around my property it is handy to have a shirt-tail or jacket covering my sidearm just to protect it from dust and getting banged into things. ;)

tulsamal
June 17, 2007, 07:45 PM
I'm a big fan of open carry, but I've found that when working around my property it is handy to have a shirt-tail or jacket covering my sidearm just to protect it from dust and getting banged into things.

I guess that's one way to handle that sort of thing. I prefer full flap holsters myself. I have four different ones that pretty well cover the guns I'm most likely to carry around the farm. Actually I was carrying a G17 in a military style flap holster the day the cop put me on the ground. It was still "too open" for him!

Gregg

illspirit
June 17, 2007, 07:55 PM
I hate anti-gun states and stupid gun control laws, but I like this law. I personally don't want to know exactly which "law-abiding citizens" are toting guns right behind me when I'm in line at the grocery store. Sorry, but it would make me nervous if i was aware of some gothic punk behind me that was carrying a loaded .45 on his waist. Police and security personnel are one thing, but I agree with the statement about how all the open carry people are just making themselves targets.

So shall we change the Second Amendment to read "A well dressed Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed as long as they follow the dress code?" And where would we draw the line? There's a lot of people out there who would feel "nervous" knowing that anyone not dressed in a police uniform are "toting guns."

Leanwolf
June 17, 2007, 09:02 PM
ZAHC - "I'm planning on moving to TX. I'm disgusted at the gun laws, Texans should be ashamed. If there' one state in the union where you should be able to go around strapped, if there was a LAST state to ban open carry, it should be texas."


That's because Texans are a bunch of wimps and wooses! :neener:

Come on up to Idaho. You can carry openly, or concealed with a CCW, in city areas. Out in the boonies, you can carry any way you please.

L.W.

El Tejon
June 17, 2007, 09:07 PM
Bah, you can carry openly in the cities here. What's up with your city-dwelling spuds out there?:confused:

makarova
June 17, 2007, 09:30 PM
If a cop puts me on the ground and a gun to my head, I hope to have witnesses. Because I'll be on the phone to my attorney about preferring charges against him. Likely for assault under the color of law, as well as aggravated menacing. The D.A. may drop those charges, but by that time he'll (the cop) will have been served on the Civil Charges. With a witness or even better, a security cam, he should have an interesting time defending himself. What you thought they get to just point a gun at you with out a reasonable belief that he was defending himself or another person? So why didn't he arrest you? No reason maybe? Exactly!

gunsmith
June 17, 2007, 09:34 PM
Some of the anti OC arguments are absurd.

I spent good money on some good holsters and belts but have to dress like a slob with an untucked shirt to conceal.

open carry isn't intimidating , girls in mini skirts are not "asking for it"
mixed race couples are not "flaunting it" when they hold hands.

The easy solution if you dislike OC is to not do it.

I own a pocket rocket in .25acp but I would rather use .357 to save my life

target1911
June 17, 2007, 10:29 PM
MY 02
With CC only the problem is here....if for some reason you loose your cover...ie..wind, bend over or reach up for something....the sheep around are not conditioned to seeing a civilian with a gun and they FREAK OUT or get scared and/or call the cops.....

However, with OC,
everyone is used to the sight of a gun on your hip and its nothing new to them so they dont freak out....not as bad anyway...

I think it would should by choice only...
I would at times CC and other times OC. whatever I felt like doin at the time

CPshooter
June 17, 2007, 11:31 PM
Hmm.. I don't think many people like what I had to say about OC. Believe me when I say that I'm all for guns and the 2nd amendment. I even chose to support the 2nd amendment for a semester-long English project..made the brochure and all. Just because I don't believe that the right to bear arms means flashing steel in public, doesn't mean my opinion should be counted as squat by some of you who'd rather open carry and let people know that you are carrying.

It's bad enough that alot of our public is ignorant to the issue of firearms and gun control in general, but I just don't think that flashing your gun and giving people heart-attacks in public is a good idea. "Police and security personnel" are one thing, but when a youngster just turns 18, gets his CC permit, and doesn't present himself well in public while being strapped with a handgun on his waist, how the heck are all those not-so-gun savvy people (pretty much everyone I've known besides me) supposed to take it?

I forgot his name, but a member here on THR has been making gun supportive pictures/ads and I think it's absolutely great. Educating the public is what needs to be done. The problem is we aren't there yet. You have to remember that the other 99% of the public has better things to do than to sit here all day long and read about guns on THR. LOL. I am the first to admit that I am almost totally desensitised to guns. I sit there all day long and cock and dry-fire all my pistols just because I have nothing better to do. Other people see my guns and their knees start shaking and they start yelling "OMG OMG OMG get it away from me." Sad, but true. Just because you are totally desensitised to guns doesn't mean everyone else is too.

As long as I'm still allowed to keep my guns on me, I have no problem with somebody telling me that I have to keep them hidden in public. At the very least it's a matter of respect to others who aren't as desensitised as we are. Call me a gun-grabber, but I just consider myself to be a respectful gun-loving citizen:)

davec
June 18, 2007, 01:47 AM
Anyone know the reasoning behind this? Is it just because it can scare people? To me, it just seems rediculous. Anyones input is appreciated.

like the rest of the US gun control law...its rooted in racism.

The law was enacted in the 1870's to make sure free black men couldn't carry firearms to defend themselves. The law was on the side of the lawman and the judge if a free black tried to carry.

Meanwhile, white lawmen and judges looked the other way when white man carried. Unless you were a white man they didn't like...in which case the law was on their side.

Elza
June 18, 2007, 02:40 AM
target1911: With CC only the problem is here....if for some reason you loose your cover...ie..wind, bend over or reach up for something....the sheep around are not conditioned to seeing a civilian with a gun and they FREAK OUT or get scared and/or call the cops.....My feelings precisely!

Elza
June 18, 2007, 02:46 AM
rino451: ETA don't know if it was mentioned before, but TX has open rifle carry. Not that you wouldn't get hassled.No kidding. I could walk around with an M-16 on my shoulder (provided I had a stamp for it) and be perfectly legal. But God forbid I should have a revolver on my hip! Go figure……..

helpless
June 18, 2007, 04:57 AM
I dont think I would open carry even if it was allowed.

yongxingfreesty
June 18, 2007, 05:23 AM
when open carry is permitted, ill purchase the smith 500. :cool::cuss::banghead:

Elza
June 18, 2007, 05:26 AM
yongxingfreesty: when open carry is permitted, ill purchase the smith 500.:what:

CleverNickname
June 18, 2007, 11:45 AM
I dont think I would open carry even if it was allowed.

I don't think I would either. But that doesn't mean that loosening restrictive firearms law is a bad thing. Open carry works just fine in plenty of other states, and I don't think that there's anything unique about Texas to where open carry would be any more dangerous (or for that matter, less dangerous) here than any place else.

Simple
June 18, 2007, 02:54 PM
It seem, in practice at least, the state constitution on the subject has relevance. Even if we feel it shouldn't trump the US 2A

Texas State Constitution, Article I, Section
Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

Illinois State Constitution Article I Sec. 22
Right to Arms

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


As opposed to say
Michigan State Constitution
Article I, Section 6:

Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.

Carl N. Brown
June 18, 2007, 03:56 PM
Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit is kinda like "concealed preferred"--
open carry is not illegal, accidental disclosure (wind blowing your
jacket open, etc) is not illegal, but concealed carry is encouraged.

Personally, even in the country on private land, I prefer to
carry a handgun concealed but I have carried openly and
prefer to have options open rather than closed.

I saw a guy carrying openly at a local store and thought little of it.
What a criminal might or might not do if he saw a citizen open
carrying is quite frankly unpredictable. Criminals tend to be
irrational and cowardly: I suspect most would leave. Massacres
ocurr in advertised "gun free zones" for a reason. The guy I
saw open carrying at the store: my first thought was he could
be an off-duty cop: why should I assume that a criminal might
not have the same thought?

In fact, instead of speculating about what criminals might think
or do, perhaps we should have a repeat of the Wright/Rossi
felon prison survey on these issues? Their first felon survey
showed felons feared an armed citizen more than arrest or
imprisonment and that a significant percentage of felons had
canceled planned crimes after learning the intended victim
was armed.

Being helpless, seeming to be helpless, begging for mercy, will
inflame some sadistic personalities far more than being openly
armed and prepared to defend yourself.

But to the thread open:
I cannot believe you can't open carry in Texas.
Perhaps not, but in Texas, Tennessee, Florida and most states
gun rights and self defense today are in a healthier position than
they were fifty or even twenty years ago.

El Tejon
June 18, 2007, 04:00 PM
Isn't it ironic that in the early Republic there was a great bias against "hidden guns" and bearing concealed weapons as a gentleman would have no reason to secret weaponry but would bear it openly. Now it seems that the bias has been turned on its head as the respectable sort would not alarm the peasantry-at-large by openly carrying a weapon.:)

More things change, more they stay the same.:)

TallPine
June 18, 2007, 04:16 PM
Isn't it ironic that in the early Republic there was a great bias against "hidden guns" and bearing concealed weapons as a gentleman would have no reason to secret weaponry but would bear it openly.

Good point, ET.

Maybe we should encourage the "gentlemanly art of carrying arms" ...? ;)

El Tejon
June 18, 2007, 04:24 PM
I'm wearing a powdered, white wig as I type.:D

Carl N. Brown
June 18, 2007, 05:12 PM
In Tennessee, legal transport is cased, with ammo in a seperate container,
locked in the trunk; open carry in the passenger compartment is "going
armed" and is illegal.

In Virginia, legal transport is open display in the passenger compartment;
carry in the trunk hidden away is "concealed carry" and is illegal.

Made it loads of fun driving from Tennessee to the gun club in Virginia
for a match and back. Virginia trooper advised me just to carry to the
club as required by my state of residence, but I still felt uneasy crossing
the stateline.

What was legal in one state was illegal in the other and vice versa.
No wonder I have little respect for gun laws or the people who write them.

Sniper X
June 18, 2007, 05:32 PM
I allways wondered the SAME thing. I would have been arrested for it if I didn;t call and check because being from New MExico, and having a CCW here, and it still being legal here to open carry, I WAS going to open carry in Te Has, but I canned Texas DPS, and asked for safeties sake, nope illegal, and they would not even attempt to tell me why....They tried to do that here in NM, and also tried to make it a FELONEY to do so but the voters wouldn't have it. We all complained that for those who couldn't afford the 300 dollar class, which it cost at first, and the LEOs wanting 100 bucks, some couldnt afford to get a CCW so had to still carry open!

Desertscout
June 18, 2007, 06:27 PM
Jeez! Who's charging $300 for that 15 hour class?

DougW
June 18, 2007, 11:19 PM
SniperX, you are always subject to each individual states laws under a reciprocity agreement between states. As a Texas CHL holder, I would have to obey the CHL laws of New Mexico when I travel there. I would suggest that assuming can get you in a mess. Remember, Don't Mess With Texas!

I still haven't figured out why OC makes carrying better. 17 million Texas residents, less than 260,000 CHL holders. Who are they?

OC is easier than concealed, but that is the way it is for now. I'll take what I can get.

cloudcroft
June 19, 2007, 01:29 AM
Leanwolf: "That's because Texans are a bunch of wimps and wooses!"

Well, there are plenty of "outlaws" still here...if you get my drift. ;)

-- John D.

Simple
June 19, 2007, 09:20 AM
I still haven't figured out why OC makes carrying better.

It could give you more options. In Michigan you cannot CC in hospital, bar, etc. but you could legally open carry. I think Virginia has the same with restaurants serving alcohol and such.

jselvy
June 19, 2007, 09:46 AM
Better and worse are subjective judgments.
OC isn't necessarily better than CC, but what gives anybody the right to tell me what I should do with my gun?
We, as gun owners, are already being treated like lepers and sex offenders. Why play into it?

Jefferson

Texasbagman
June 19, 2007, 11:56 AM
Just to clarify a few points.

Texas gun laws are as good as the best states, and the nation. Since Texas doesn't regulate firearms in any way other than to follow federal law, which every state has to.

Texas does not allow cities to make up their own hodgepodge of nutty gun laws so you don't get silliness like Colorado - Denver nonsense.

Texas carry laws are NOT the best. We do have laws against carrying open in public. But you can carry open on private property, and this includes private businesses if you have permission. Many pawn shops and gun store employees carry open. Our CHL procedures are too expensive, and too time consuming. I want Vermont/Alaska type concealed carry.

We are working on it.

And we do allow private property owners to restrict concealed carry on their property, they just have to post according to the law. 30.06 signs to be precise. Imagine that, protecting property owners rights. What a bunch of commies us Texans are.

:D

And I doubt you will find a state with better self defense laws.

Simple
June 19, 2007, 12:32 PM
And we do allow private property owners to restrict concealed carry on their property, they just have to post according to the law. 30.06 signs to be precise. Imagine that, protecting property owners rights. What a bunch of commies us Texans are.


that is like: no shirt, no shoes, no service. = breaking the law, as opposed to an establishment refusing your business/trespassing.

Property owners rights are protected without making this specific act illegal, they can refuse anyone's business for ANY reason.

Texasbagman
June 19, 2007, 12:53 PM
^ explain please.

HiroProX
June 19, 2007, 01:05 PM
Open carry was one of the main reasons I moved from Texas to Idaho.

Admittedly I may be a bit influenced about an attempt at english by a friend of my mom's while on vacation in Honduras...

"The good guys have their weapons out in the open."

In some twisted way, this makes more sense to me than concealed carry.

Simple
June 19, 2007, 01:10 PM
In Michigan businesses can post whatever they want, they can refuse business to anyone, but posting something doesn't make it "illegal". I have noticed jewelry stores here that are posted no weapons (posted however they see fit, unlike the 30.06, which has specific criteria), and they have armed guards. I can carry into these places (jewelry store, bank, restraunt), they can tell me to leave. They can call the cops on me and I can get trespassing charge if it is shown that I refused to leave.

I just seems like if they post 30.06, I could be arguing prison time over font size!

Texasbagman
June 19, 2007, 01:24 PM
By making a sign requirement, Texas protected both the business owner and the CHL holder.

Before the sign requirement, there were a myriad of different signs being posted in oddwad locations. You never really knew if you were trespassing or not.

Now, the property owner can post if they wish, with the force of law, and the CHL holder is properly notified. If they still trespass onto the property, it is a misdemeanor, just like if you refused to leave for any other reason.

Simple
June 19, 2007, 01:54 PM
OK, see I went and assumed it was a more serious offense than trespassing.

So, are there laws regarding all posting?
30.06 covers no shirt, no shoes?

Art Eatman
June 19, 2007, 02:24 PM
30.06 pertains only to CHL.

DougW
June 19, 2007, 04:32 PM
simple, when the law was written, it just happened that Section 30 sub section 06 pertained to legal postings. That is why it is called "30.06" here in Texas. It is not a caliber, it is the ONLY legimate posting restricting concealed handguns on a posted premisis. The cities in Texas cannot use the 30.06 posting, because the Texas Legislature makes the laws concerning firearms. And the law is very specific.

Penalty for violating the 30.06 is criminal tresspass which is a misdemeanor here in Texas. There are fines and prison time included in a conviction. It is not up to the property owner, the city or the county, it is State that has written the law. And, if someone uses anything else as a posting, then it is invalid and the property owner is not serious about restricting CHL's on their property.

EricTheBarbarian
June 19, 2007, 04:47 PM
no open carry in texas or florida....... theres open carry in ohio but it doesnt mean they wont arrest you for it. It just so happens probably close to the 2 hottest states in the union you have to throw a coat or something over your carry piece. I dont live there but I dont think wearing a coat in florida or texas could be very comfortable.

wdlsguy
June 19, 2007, 05:12 PM
It just so happens probably close to the 2 hottest states in the union you have to throw a coat or something over your carry piece.
That's why pocket carry and Hawaiian shirts were invented. ;)

Alphazulu6
June 20, 2007, 01:57 AM
Yeah........ why would you want to open carry anyway? Is it that hard to get a CC permit in Texas?

DKSuddeth
June 20, 2007, 03:37 AM
why would you want to open carry anyway? Is it that hard to get a CC permit in Texas?

why open carry? dude, it's fricking HOT!! down here in the summer.

hard to get? don't know because I haven't been able to come up with the 265 dollars it would take to get it.

fairfax1
June 20, 2007, 05:22 AM
Can anyone please provide a link to the mythical"the bad guy will take his gun if he open carrys incedent". I know others have asked before but I have yet to see one verifiable instance.

http://www.potomacnews.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WPN%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149189722963&path=!news

Centreville-area man robbed of handgun

A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive in Centreville, Fairfax County Police said.

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to his head, said police.

The robbers took the man's handgun, which he was openly carrying, and ran away. He was not injured.

The robbers were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

Anyone with information about this incident or the robbers is asked to call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477) or the police non-emergency number at (703) 691-2131.

tulsamal
June 20, 2007, 11:41 AM
With a witness or even better, a security cam, he should have an interesting time defending himself. What you thought they get to just point a gun at you with out a reasonable belief that he was defending himself or another person? So why didn't he arrest you? No reason maybe? Exactly!

We were the only two people anywhere around that dirt road. If you read the story in the link I provided, that's part of the reason I refused to take the Glock out of the holster and put it on the ground. (This is when I was already on my face in the gravel.) I didn't exactly think he would shoot me on purpose but he was so keyed up I was afraid he might fire as I drew the gun. Then I would be dead and he could just say I started drawing the gun. That's when I came up with the idea of just unsnapping the belt with my off hand and then rolling away from the whole thing. You would _think_ the cop would have thought of that.

So there were no witnesses. And I checked afterwards by going to the Sheriff's department and looking for myself. Their cars have no video cameras. They "hope" to get them someday.

When I came home that day and told my story to my wife, she was very upset.... at me. (She's Canadian. Something in the water.) "It was my fault for carrying the gun. The cop was just doing his job. You can't get a lawyer and sue them or everybody in this small town will see us as troublemakers. Promise you won't do anything about this." Etc, etc. I wasn't totally convinced to "let it alone" until I saw they didn't have cameras. Plus I had a "gun friend" who was a local lawyer and he went to the Sheriff's Dept. and asked about the incident. The Sheriff said he was listening to it on the radio when it happened and the Deputy was following their established procedures.

So I still feel a lot of resentment toward them but that's as far as it has gone.

Gregg

Vern Humphrey
June 20, 2007, 12:35 PM
Centreville-area man robbed of handgun

A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive in Centreville, Fairfax County Police said.

About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to his head, said police.

The robbers took the man's handgun, which he was openly carrying, and ran away. He was not injured.

And how many people were struck by lightning on the same day?:p

Carl N. Brown
June 20, 2007, 03:29 PM
Back in the fifties, a guy who had been in jail talked to me about
how criminals who wanted guns would "creep a cop"--sneak
up behind an officer and take his gun from the holster and run.
(See, there is a reason behind weapons retention training.)
Yes a criminal might take your gun, but that does not mean
there should be no open carry at all.

My argument for concealed carry is it gives you more response
options--if the situation does not warrant lethal force a
concealed weapon can remain concealed. But talking theoretics,
an open carry firearm may scare off an intended attack. It can
be argued both ways.

By the way, is potamacnews.com related to Potowmack Institute?

RubenZ
June 28, 2007, 12:45 PM
If I was a criminal and was going to take out a store. The Open Carry guys would be the first to go. Why? Because me being the criminal would Conceal MY gun. Walk around a bit, get an idea for who is OC'ing and take him out first.

It's just stupid to OC in a city anyway imo.

The only reason I'd want an OC law passed is so that I can be at Big Bend National Park openly carrying a .357mag or if I'm out at a small town ranch community etc. But to OC in Houston or Dallas etc is bogus imo.

anygunanywhere
June 28, 2007, 01:14 PM
The only reason I'd want an OC law passed is so that I can be at Big Bend National Park openly carrying a .357mag or if I'm out at a small town ranch community etc. But to OC in Houston or Dallas etc is bogus imo.

I believe you are just using Big Bend as an example, but you can not OC or CC in a national park.

I understand the meaning of your post.

Funny, I thought the 2A said no infringement, but after all the national parks are federal property.

Anygun

jselvy
June 28, 2007, 01:25 PM
I don't think that there should be any carry laws whatsoever. CC or OC as the individual sees fit. There are valid arguments for both sides of the issue, so pick a school and go with it. Individualism at its finest.

Jefferson

Vern Humphrey
June 28, 2007, 01:34 PM
The only reason I'd want an OC law passed is so that I can be at Big Bend National Park openly carrying a .357mag or if I'm out at a small town ranch community etc. But to OC in Houston or Dallas etc is bogus imo.

I believe you are just using Big Bend as an example, but you can not OC or CC in a national park.

I understand the meaning of your post.

Funny, I thought the 2A said no infringement, but after all the national parks are federal property.

So far as I know, I never adopted anyone on this board. And no one has adopted me. So if anyone wants to carry -- any way he pleases -- that's his damn' business. And if I want to carry -- any way I please -- that's none of his damn' business.

anygunanywhere
June 28, 2007, 02:50 PM
Quote:
The only reason I'd want an OC law passed is so that I can be at Big Bend National Park openly carrying a .357mag or if I'm out at a small town ranch community etc. But to OC in Houston or Dallas etc is bogus imo.

Quote:
I believe you are just using Big Bend as an example, but you can not OC or CC in a national park.

I understand the meaning of your post.

Funny, I thought the 2A said no infringement, but after all the national parks are federal property.

So far as I know, I never adopted anyone on this board. And no one has adopted me. So if anyone wants to carry -- any way he pleases -- that's his damn' business. And if I want to carry -- any way I please -- that's none of his damn' business.

Well allrighty then! I guess that settles that. I'll try and remember that if and when I am ever deep in the Ozarks.

In the meant time I'll obey the law if I ever go back to Big Bend, which is doubtful. Same as with deep in the Ozarks.

Anygun

Sistema1927
June 28, 2007, 08:16 PM
I am not a Texan, but I married one. I did, however, attend High School, College, and Grad School in Texas. Now I reside to the west in New Mexico.

It is interesting to see the differences between the two states, and note that many of them are firmly rooted in history. Whereas Texas had a nasty, nasty time during reconstruction, this was not the case in New Mexico or Arizona, which was really part of the same territory during the reconstruction era. Additionally, New Mexico/Arizona and Texas have radically different racial situations.

This accounts largely for the reason why open carry is both legal and common in New Mexico/Arizona while it is still illegal in Texas.

Also, for those of who who think that open carry is an invitation to "getting capped" first by the BG, that is neither my experience nor something that has ever been seen to be a problem in my neck of the woods (or, rather, corner of the desert).

Vern Humphrey
June 28, 2007, 08:23 PM
Also, for those of who who think that open carry is an invitation to "getting capped" first by the BG, that is neither my experience nor something that has ever been seen to be a problem in my neck of the woods (or, rather, corner of the desert).
And if it was a "problem," whose business is it? Let each of us assume what risks he chooses -- lest we all wind up held in a big play pen where we can't hurt ourselves.

Art Eatman
June 28, 2007, 08:37 PM
This horse looks pretty much dead, to me...

:D, Art

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