[10-Ring]

I was over at th Beretta forum & found a thread re: LAPD replacing their Berettas w/ Glocks. Does any one here know where I can find valid info re: this?

[Spackler]

I'd not heard that. If there is any truth to it, it would be a radical change for them. Right now they only authorize pistols that have a manual safety (and I think all of the authorized pistols have slide-mounted safties). Going to the Glock would be a pretty big change for them.

[10-Ring]

Agreed, it would be a HUGE switch for them. That manual safety is/was a big deal!

[El Tejon]

LAPD had a manual safety on their M9s!?!?:confused: Instead of the dingus dropper or in addition to the dingus dropper?!?!:confused:

[SRYnidan]

Check out link to DTI quips
www.defense-training.com/quips/8June03.html (http://www.defense-training.com/quips/8June03.html)

[Spackler]

Re: the DTI link - not sure what they consider a "big department". The PA State Police, while not half the size of the LAPD, have 4310 Troopers carrying the Beretta 96D Brigadier.

[gamegod86]

Judging from the movie "44 minutes" and from contemporaneous news accounts, I think they could use more marksmanship training than anything else.

Glock, Beretta, Kimber, Bersa, or Jennings doesn't matter if you can't hit the target.

"Gee, these COM shots don't seem to work against body armor... well, since the SHTF, maybe I should try a HEADSHOT, I dunno..."

BTW, I am a HUGE proponent of LE, I just think that their policies and training failed them in that situation.

Is this a thread hijack? Sorry....

See also: http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162220&highlight=LAPD+glock

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157619&highlight=LAPD+glock

[Number 6]

The way it was explained to me when I started the process of getting hired at the LAPD is that I will get issued a Beretta 92FS, if I want something with a larger caliber I can buy myself either a Smith and Wesson in 45(I forgot the exact model number) or a Beretta Cougar in 45. Being in the process of becoming a LAPD officer I have been down to the various administrative buildings and make a point of looking at what everyone is carrying in their holsters. I have seen no Glocks but have mostly seen in the holsters either a Beretta 92FS or a Smith and Wesson in 45. I have also seen a few officers carrying revolvers. They might be changing over, which I would fully support, but I have not heard about it nor have I seen any officer carry a Glock.

[10-Ring]

Here's the link to the thread from the Beretta forum...http://www.berettaforum.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=004749

..if anyone's interested. My first impression was that the interest probably started from their new chief who is ex-nypd chief, so it made some sense. I guess time will tell.

[4 eyed six shooter]

Try calling the LAPD and ask to talk with their dept armour. I'll bet he would know and give you the answer.

[Ol' Badger]

Want to bet that there will be atlest one death caused by the switch! There will be that one office that forgets the safety and it gives the BG that second more and "POP" man down. Maybe they should just let them carry what ever they want! As long as they quaify with the weapon.

[Mute]

A friend of mine is a firearms trainer with the LAPD. He just confirmed with me last week that the LAPD are indeed looking into Glocks to replace some of the service pistols in circulation right now. I don't believe the decision has been finalized, but it appears to be very likely to happen.

[10-Ring]

In all seriousness, the LAPD does need to make some change. Some of the guns they have in use now have seen better days. It's just a natural time for replacement.

[9mmepiphany]

ol'badger - LAPD never had a problem with their 92FS because they carried with the safety off...their don hume holsters had an added tab on the thumb break that pushed off the safety, if it had been applied, when the officer snapped in.

the beretta was a huge leap forward for LAPD when they adopted them. they was converting over fromthe 4" smith m-10. LASO at least had the adjustable sighted m-15

also on a serious note, LAPD's 92FS are getting very tired and need to be replaced

[10-Ring]

What kind of agreement/ arrangement do they have w/ S&W?

[Spackler]

I don't think there is any arrangement with S&W, other than possibly a LE discount for their officers. LAPD officers are authorized to carry the S&W 4506 or 4566, but the guns are not provided by the dept. They must purchase it with their own funds, as Number 6 mentioned.

[El Tejon]

I keep reading about this "safety" on LAPD's M9s. What gives? Are their M9s modified somehow, some special run of M9s to include a safety?:confused:

[Spackler]

LAPD carries the 92FS, which is the civilian version of the M9 (or I should say the M9 is the military version of the 92FS).

The pistols all have a slide-mounted safety/decocker. This is a standard feature on the 92FS. The "D" models are DAO, and thus are "slick slides", with no safety/decocker. I think there is a model with a decocker-only - maybe the "G" model?

Where's Skunk when you need him?

[10-Ring]

Wasn't there a time when S&W 9mm pistols issued along side the Berettas? A buddy of mine had one when he went through the academy years ago.

[El Tejon]

Spack, so people are calling the hammer dropping dingus a safety!!!:eek: Good Grief, do the Italians advertise it as such?!?!

[Tecolote]

On the 92FS the ambi lever drops the hammer and you can also lock the hammer if you want. How is that not a safety?

[Nick96]

Maybe a bit off topic, but I've seen several comments here that the handguns LAPD are now using are wearing out. Saw another thread somewhere about complaints from Troops in Iraq that their 9mm's were getting old and worn out.

Now as I recall, the military didn't go to the 9MM Beretta until the mid 1980's. I think about the same time for LAPD. So in both cases, the oldest models would go back what, 15 to 18 years?

The military had been using 1911 .45's and S&W M&P .38's going back to the 1940's. That's 30 to 40 years before replacement. And a retired LEO I had been aquanted with carried the same handgun throughout his career (1950's to 1980's) - which seemed to be a common practice back then.

The question is, why are these new(er) guns wearing out seemingly prematurly? The military may shoot theirs a lot - but I don't think that's the case with LEO's. I can see the reasoning for changing to newer technology. But how do you wear out a gun from a reputable manufacturer that spends most of it's time riding around in a holster?

[10-Ring]

Factor in all the rounds shot in the academy, practice rounds, qualifying rounds & the fact that life in a duty holster is not as easy as it may sound.
Besides, why replace when something breaks/ fails? Why not replace before a situation becomes critical?

[9mmepiphany]

nick96 - any LE pistol wsill wear out faster then their military counterpart...they just put more rounds throught them at a faster pace.

el tejon - yes the thing on the slide, of a beretta 92FS is a safety...actually it is a combination safety and decocker/hammer drop. when applied, it blocks the hammer from contacting the firing pin.

the "D" model has a slick slide as it is DAO...and need neither a safety or a de-cocker

the "G" model has the lever, but it serves only as a de-cocker. it is spring loaded to return to the up position after you drop the hammer.

10-ring - i seem to remeber a time when LAPD gave their officers a choice between the beretta 92 and the smith 59. most choose the 92, so they standardized

[Nick96]

Still wondering!! Why is it that handguns designed and used extensivly in the first part of the 20th century seemed to have a service life of twice that of those made in the last part of the century? Especially with all the wonderful advances in technology, metalergy & precision machining?

Could it be that new guns are not nearly as good as the old ones? Or is it more a matter of marketing, prestige and a seemingly bottomless bucket of public money available to fuel the whims of career bureaucrats?

[Destructo6]

Especially with all the wonderful advances in technology, metalergy & precision machining?
The idea that what we have now is okay, but what we could have because of the above is better is certainly a factor.

Just as certainly, marketing and such play a factor.

El T. Beretta describes that slide mounted lever as a, "manual safety [that] also functions as a decocking lever." So, at least in the marketing, it's primary purpose is as a safety.

[10-Ring]

I heard tail end of news story on commute home. I guess the Glocks have been approved, but it didn't sound like the guns would be purchased by the department. If the officers want one of the approved models, they'll have to buy one out o their own $$

[MrAcheson]

Don't kid yourself, those 1911s didn't last 30-40 years in pristine condition either. The 1911 started to get a reputation for poor performance in Vietnam because the WWII era guns were really worn out. Your looking at 20-30 years there as well.

Cops don't tend to clean their guns enough or take good care of them. The military cleans their guns a lot in training (probably too much) and very little in practice. 20-30 years is a good lifetime for any machine.

[Destructo6]

Heard about it yesterday, too, on KFWB. There was a quip about how the Glocks were an improvement because they couldn't be accidentally discharged or something. I had to laugh.

[9x19]

Rumors here say that the Texas Department of Public Safety (State Troopers) are going from the SIG in .357, to the Glock in .357 as an answer to some alleged SIG durability issues.

Don't take it to the bank, but it bears watching... :D

[10-Ring]

I just find it interesting how this new chief has been able to implement policies and acquire equipment w/o the hoops & hurdles past chiefs have encountered. I thought the Glock wasn't considered my LAPD for officer safety & liability issues revolving around a lack of extenal safety...oh well

[Amish]

Actually the new Chief has added Glocks to the list of handguns that officers can buy themselves and carry as long as they can qualify with it. Beretta 92's are still the standard issue.

[Spackler]

Does anybody know which Glock models have been approved?

[10-Ring]

As I heard it originally, the proposal was for 9mm & 45 acp and would be up to individual officers to purchase & then qualify with in order to use for duty.