Rifle vs. rifle "system".


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jagdpanzer347
June 16, 2007, 11:36 PM
Greetings all. The vast majority of us here own rifles. How many of us here own/operate a rifle system? First, let me define what I consider a rifle, or any firearm really, system. I'll use the ever-popular AR15 as an example.

First off, to have a rifle system, we need rifles. Multiple examples of the same basic weapon type. Say, perhaps, an M4-type, a SP1/A1-type, and a plain-Jane A2, for purposes of discussion. Of course, to keep these weapons running, you have a good supply of spare parts. Maybe even extra upper and lower receivers, barrels, etc.

Next you need an "adequate" supply of magazines and ammunition. This will vary according to each end users needs, of course. I find it hard to over-do in it in this particular area. If I was rich, that might be different. Of course, if I was rich, I could afford warehouse space!

Also to be considered are accessories and perhaps most important, practice and training with the weapon system. So, do you run a system, and if so, what type?

-jagd

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Nomad, 2nd
June 17, 2007, 01:40 AM
I don't run the AR.... I don't own one... but I have an 'adequate' amount of training on the M16/M4.

I run the AK, FAL, and M1A 'Systems'
Parts, Minimum 20 mags per rifle, optics, light mounts, slings, webbed gear.

Been training with the AK reciently due to ammo costs, so honestly right now that's what I'll be reaching for.

MassMark
June 17, 2007, 12:44 PM
M1A SOCOM System for me....

Avenger
June 17, 2007, 12:46 PM
Might be stretching the point, but I could say I'm running a Mosin-Nagant system! I've got something like 5,000 rounds available, 100+ stripper clips, a pair of extra bolts (both bent bolts BTW), and as far as anything else goes....Well, I have access to a scrap steel yard and I believe there is a 2x4 in the garage that isn't totally full of nails yet.....anything else is gravy!

funfaler
June 17, 2007, 12:52 PM
I am always amazed by folks that say that they want a rifle to "protect" their families, if SHTF, then refuse to buy more than 2-3 mags or ammo or spare parts.

I S indeed HTF, then you can't run to Wally's to get ammo, mags or parts. You will soon have a very expensive club.

Since Ammo is expensive now, I have taken to picking up the stuff that is not expensive yet, mags, parts, optics, etc. Or getting the calibers that are less expensive, ie. 9mm and 7.62x39.

Stock up on what you can get, you may be able to trade for what you don't have in a SHTF situation.

armoredman
June 17, 2007, 01:11 PM
Systems in place.


Primary, SKS system, with additional ammunition, ammunition feeding implements, feeding implement holding device, and muti-purpose camoflauge tactically enabled.


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/SKS3.jpg



Back up system. Enfield No4MK1*, tactically enhanced with period pigsticker, bandolier of ammunition feeding devices and anti-personell soft point ammunition, carefully tactically arranged to look like any other old wood stocked rifle. Tactically, of course.



http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Enfield1.jpg

Nightcrawler
June 17, 2007, 01:26 PM
Lemme think...for my FAL carbine, I've got a spare barrel, spare lower, spare firing pin, spare extractor/ejector assembly, and more than thirty mags. Back in Michigan I've got spare furniture, but it doesn't do me much good here I suppose.

I'm going to stock up on spare parts and such as well. I've got a tac sling and load bearing gear as well.

If you don't have extra mags and some way of carrying them, your rifle is just a range toy.

MMcfpd
June 17, 2007, 02:05 PM
Apparently I'm beginning to embrace the AR "system." I've got two in 5.56 with 20 mags, one in .45 with 4 mags (Uzi), another in .45 coming for which I've now got 7 mags (grease gun), a Beowulf (.50 AR) which should arrive this week and a lower without a job whose future is looking like it might get an upper that will share 7.62 ammo with my AK and SKSs.

And as a result I've got a growing cache of AR triggers, sights, springs, etc.

Or perhaps I could be developing a .45 ACP rifle system, with the two .45 ARs, an HK USC and a Fox Wasp Carbine.

This is a rifle thread, so I'll leave out the .45 handguns (mostly 1911s).

glockman19
June 17, 2007, 02:38 PM
I have an M1A and I don't consider it a system It's a good long range highly penetrating rifle. The best tool for punching through walls and cars if you heeded to hit someone. I also have 2 AR-15's This is a system. I have 2 complete rifles and 35 magazines 15 20 round 15 30 round and 5 10 round. One with a 16" barrel and one with a 20" both tools have different uses. 16" Close quarters,(inside house) 20" outside house and around buildings. The M1A for outside area where a shot of more than 50 yards or 150 feet is likely.
There is a place for both in moders self decense and SHTF scenereo's. As far as reliability I'll take the M1A because I've NEVER had a FTF, FTE or any other issue. I have had both at different times with AR's.

With a couple of AR's 5.56/.223, an M1A 7.62/.308, and a bolt action .30-06 I have all distances and scenereo's covered. Nothing Like a well rounded collections and complete tool box. Don't forget the pump 12 gague for close quarters as well.

A complete rifle "system" IMHO should include all of the above firearms.

RockyMtnTactical
June 17, 2007, 03:10 PM
I guess you could say I have the AR15 system... or disease...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/mwirig79/AR15carbine11.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/mwirig79/Stag20inch.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/mwirig79/Superlight-RMT.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/mwirig79/RMS-LOGO1.jpg

This is what I train with, shoot with, etc... And these are just pictures of my completed AR15's... it doesn't include spare parts, partial rifles, etc...

geojap
June 17, 2007, 03:16 PM
I suppose so. I have a couple of AK's in the same caliber. I also have four Finn M39 Mosin Nagants. I have plenty of mags, ammo, parts, slings, scopes for these rifles to keep them functioning for quite some time.

Sunray
June 17, 2007, 03:33 PM
"...a rifle system..." That's a marketing term used by military small arms manufacturers.
"...good supply of spare parts..." If you need all kinds of spare parts, especially uppers etc, the rifle is junk.

jagdpanzer347
June 17, 2007, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone. In this system approach I think long-term. It would be nice if I could bank on buying everything I need to maintain my weapons in the future, but I have my doubts. Magazines, parts, rifles, while abundant now, may not always be that way. Look at the current ammunition market. Remember when Port and South African .308 was under 150.00 a case? Not that long ago.

Anyways, I have, or am in the process of adopting the FAL, AK, and AR platforms. I'm pretty good to go on the AK, but have to work on the others. I can also go "old school" with some milsurp systems, if need be.

jagd

Nomad, 2nd
June 17, 2007, 06:29 PM
"...good supply of spare parts..." If you need all kinds of spare parts, especially uppers etc, the rifle is junk.

OR, you plan on doing more shooting than some other people plan on doing...

funfaler
June 17, 2007, 06:49 PM
"...good supply of spare parts..." If you need all kinds of spare parts, especially uppers etc, the rifle is junk.

OR....


You are not so short sighted as to realize that mechanical devices do break, and that there may come a day that going to the nearest "gun shop" to pick up a replacement part is may not alway be an option.

The above kind of thinking is the same that says that you only need one mag, cause who "needs all kinds of spare" magazines. A good magazine should last you years, or decades.

Don't know much about marketing, but I suspect that if I rely on others to have what I need, when I need it, I would sure learn quickly about Market forces.

walking arsenal
June 17, 2007, 09:20 PM
Naw, junk.

I agree. Keeping a spare or two of certain parts is a good idea like maybe extractors or firing pins. But if you need to keep 50% of the rifle in spare parts around...........thats not good.

I have an AK, A FAL and an AR-15 system. The AR is the only system because it has an acog reflex and a light on it. Making all the parts a system as a whole.

MMcfpd
June 17, 2007, 09:27 PM
When your parts get up to 50% of the rifle it's time to put together another one. Most of my spare parts are working firearms.

Nightcrawler
June 17, 2007, 10:42 PM
Heh. My "spare barrel" and "spare lower" are leftovers from when I had my STG 58 carbine converted. So would that even count then? :D

The handy things to have replacments of are, I think, firing pins, extractor/ejector assemblies, and springs. Oh, and as I found out last month, screws.

(The nut that holds the handguard screw on my FAL worked itself loose and disappeared; handguard screw fell out, and my handguards had to be taped on for the rest of the shoot. I now have a shiny new screw from Home Depot, with a loc-tited locking nut on the other end, and a spare in the same little box my spare extractor and firing pin are in. :cool: )

dstorm1911
June 17, 2007, 11:14 PM
I've found in the last 15 or so years that if I maintain a system of buying at least 10 milsurp rifles one month and then buying a large quantity of either reloading components or ammo the next month and repeating every month that ya can accumulate enough milsurps that it doesn't matter what ya choose to shoot..... there will be several available and plenty of ammo to allow ya to shoot all ya want ;)

my other rifle system is to keep one handgun and one street sweeper upstairs with several other carbines scattered throughout the main house allows ya plenty to be able to fight your way to the gun vaults downstairs were ya can as mentioned in example #1 allow ya to select any "system" to meet the current needs....

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