Shocker! British Editorial Slams Gun Control


January 8, 2003, 08:24 AM

British editorial slams gun control
Says firearm bans punish 'law-abiding' while driving up crime

Posted: January 8, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Jon Dougherty
© 2003

An editorial in a leading British newspaper criticizes that nation's gun-control laws, pointing out that "total" bans on some weapons only help criminals while punishing law-abiding citizens.

The London Telegraph column, published Jan. 5, also said the country's violent crime rate was rising and predicted that London's murder rate, which is rising, would overtake New York City's rate, which is falling.

"New York has just recorded the lowest murder rate since the 19th century. I'll bet that in the next two years London's murder rate overtakes it," said opinion writer Mark Steyn.

Citing a recent U.N. crime survey, Steyn said, "England and Wales now have the highest crime rate of the world's 20 leading nations."

"One can query the methodology of the survey while still recognizing the peculiar genius by which British crime policy has wound up with every indicator going haywire – draconian gun control plus vastly increased gun violence plus stratospheric property crime," he wrote.

Steyn said since the British government imposed its "total ban" on handguns five years ago, "there are more and more guns being used by more and more criminals in more and more crimes." And now, in the wake of shootings in Birmingham over New Year's, "there are calls for the total ban to be made even more total: If the gangs refuse to obey the existing laws, we'll just pass more laws for them not to obey."

The editorial tied an increase in gangland activity and drugs to England's increase in violent crime. Steyn also said much of the increased crime was "black-on-black" violence.

He said it wasn't "politically feasible" to suggest that some ethnic groups – particularly the Jamaican drug gangs – "be subjected to special immigration scrutiny."

"This basic approach of addressing any cultural factors apart from the ones that correlate was pioneered by American progressives," he wrote. "The corpulent provocateur Michael Moore, in his film 'Bowling for Columbine,' currently delighting British audiences, spends an entire feature-length documentary investigating the 'culture' of American gun violence without mentioning that blacks, who make up 13 percent of the population, account for over half the murders (and murder victims, too). Once you factor them out, Americans kill at about the same rate as nancy-boy Canadians."

"America's traditionally high and England and Wales' traditionally low murder rates are remorselessly converging," Steyn said. "In 1981, the U.S. rate was nine times higher than the English. By 1995, it was six times. Last year, it was down to 3.5. Given that U.S. statistics, unlike the British ones, include manslaughter and other lesser charges, the real rate is much closer."

WorldNetDaily reported in March 2000 that when Australia banned private ownership of most guns in 1996, crime rose dramatically.

After Australian lawmakers passed widespread gun bans, owners were forced to surrender about 650,000 weapons, which were later slated for destruction, according to statistics from the Australian Sporting Shooters Association.

Australian officials discounted the report, which used figures also cited by the National Rifle Association.

But while figures showed that murders fell from 312 in 1996 to 284 murders in 1998, after experiencing a slight increase in 1997, from 312 to 321, Australia's crime data also showed that almost every other form of crime had increased, often dramatically, in the same time period.

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January 8, 2003, 08:38 AM
This from a British editorial? I just don't know what to make of it; could the Brits finally be seeing the inherent logical fallacy of gun control?

No, I doubt it. Give the WorldNetDaily a couple days to issue a counter editorial of thorough rebuke. A twist and counter-twist, that's entertainment. If it got folks to stop and read, I believe it served it's true intended purpose.
Call me pessimistic if you'd like....

The spark of reason is encouraging however, regardless of the intent.

4v50 Gary
January 8, 2003, 11:13 AM
If the press traditionally champions the "underdog who can't speak for themselves", then let's hope this is a trend. It's the people control, not guns.

January 8, 2003, 11:35 AM
Oh well, that guy just lost his job...


January 8, 2003, 11:44 AM
1. Not all Brits are anti-gun bliss-ninnies, just as not all residents of California are anti-gun bliss-ninnies. This should not come as a shock to anyone.

2. Britains skyrocketing crime rate has much to do with changing demographics, just as NYC's falling one does. Demos, however, aren't the only thing in play (naturally).

3. I'm betting that gun-control has less of an impact on crime in London than the general idea that under no circumstances whatsoever should anyone dare to defend themselves. Agricola can likely set the record straight on what, exactly, a person can do to defend themselves and not be prosecuted...but the general gist, as I understand it, is that any sign of arming one's self for defense (be it with a knife, stick or *gasp* firearm- not sure about chemical agents) is a decided no-no...which of course just means that the biggest guy wins. Or the one who decides to arm himself in violation of the law.


January 8, 2003, 11:54 AM
For the Press to intimate that gun fewer guns in the hands of citizens equals increased crime is just about as politically incorrect as to suggest that England's rise in crime is directly related to the increase in their minority population. Gangs of 3rd worlders are not likely to comply with any call for gun control just like the gangbangers in the good old USA.

Stringent gun control + large minority #S = HIGH CRIME

No gun control + low minority #s = LOW CRIME

January 8, 2003, 12:22 PM
Maybe my 500 posts on agricolas board have't been a complete wast of time. :D

But it would be a lot easier to talk about jesus to the wiccans. :banghead:

January 8, 2003, 12:36 PM
just as not all residents of California are anti-gun bliss-ninnies

No, I am! I am!!!

I just have you guys all fooled! :neener:

January 8, 2003, 12:47 PM
Enlightenment comes slower for some than for others.

Sometimes it can come too late.

Thank God New Zealand didn't jump on the Brit/Aus gun grab bad wagon!


Sean Smith
January 8, 2003, 01:06 PM
Here is the original article.;?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/01/05/ixopinion.html

But, as I said, it's hardly worth mentioning in relation to Britain. In my part of New Hampshire, we're all armed to the hilt and any gangster who fancied holding up a gas station would be quickly ventilated by guys whose pick-ups are better equipped than most EU armies. The right of individual self-defence deters crime, constrains it, prevents it from spreading out of the drug-infested failed jurisdictions. In post-Dunblane, post-Tony Martin Britain, that constraint doesn't exist: that's why the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea now has a higher crime rate than Harlem.

Gotta love it...


January 8, 2003, 02:49 PM
You know, in the long run, we may end up thanking the UK and Canada for proving that gun control just doesn't work.

January 8, 2003, 07:09 PM
Isn't it ironic that the "craddle" of civilization in the western world (as the Brits see themselves) now have social darwinism? Forced to them by their own government? Where, the hell, in the whole world are you punished because you defend yourself against a criminal? Oh, Oh, Britain, Australia, Canada, USA...

The media in Great Britain was always VERY independent, investigative, and never followed a "PC" pattern. May be since Murdoch took over a lot of papers (I think there is no independent paper today), the media became "americanized", what means, "ENTERTAIN THE READERS, DON'T TELL THEM FACTS, DON'T BOTHER THEM WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD"

How was it expressed by Richard Salant, former President of CBS News?
"Our job is to give people not what they want, but what we decide they ought to have."

January 8, 2003, 07:27 PM
Especially if you worked long and hard to get to the Granite state!

CCW's in hand, and 4x4's under our rears, me and mine go forth to face, well, whatever!

Maybe we will, but I'll take long odds that it'll take the death of many law abiding citizens, neglecting whatever happens abroad, before the second is once again honored.
I've few doubts that the police deaths will be very much fewer, though, and I'm more than reasonably sure that the state that they protect will be there to apply the shackles, gently, at first, if, and when, we exit the farside.

Guy B. Meredith
January 8, 2003, 08:40 PM
Uh, what is a nancy-boy Canadian?

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