Australian gun control, failing miserably as usual


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The-Fly
June 18, 2007, 12:01 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/06/17/australia.shooting.ap/index.html

MELBOURNE, Australia (AP) -- A gunman opened fire on a downtown street during the morning rush hour Monday in Australia's second largest city, killing one man and critically wounding two other people, police said.

The suspect fled and police launched a manhunt in the southern city of Melbourne, closing several streets and advising people to stay indoors as tactical officers armed with shotguns fanned out and helicopters joined the search overhead.

Police said the shooting did not appear to be a random act, and that it was believed a woman who was one of the victims knew the gunman.

The other two victims -- including the one who died -- were male bystanders who came to the aid of the woman during an altercation with a man who pulled out a gun, witnesses said.

"A girl came out of a building over the road, she was screaming and a guy had her by the hair," Ross Murchie told Australian Broadcasting Corp.

"She tried to grab hold of a taxi that was going by and the couple of bystanders went over to ask what was happening," Murchie said. "He let go of her hair, pulled out a gun and shot them all."

Insp. Steve Martin said the woman and one of the men who went to assist were rushed to hospital in critical condition with gunshot wounds to their chests. The third victim died at the scene, he said.

The shooting occurred on the corner of Flinders Lane and William Streets in central Melbourne around 8 a.m. Monday (2200 GMT Sunday), sending hundreds of frightened commuters fleeing.

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eric_t12
June 18, 2007, 01:25 AM
i told you the gun control worked, see!? the cops were armed with taz... er wait... i guess i'm wrong... maybe it doesn't work so well. :( poor me

[/sarcasm]

Elza
June 18, 2007, 01:40 AM
They MUST have been mistaken. He couldn’t have had a gun. Guns are illegal there!

Bluey
June 18, 2007, 04:34 AM
Took less than 4 hours for the anti gun comments to start. The leader of the greens party called for a complete ban on firearms, and the PM has indicated he's in favor of it but it's a state responsibility (funny, seeing as he forced the states to adopt the current laws).
I really feel like I'm seeing the downhill slide of this country. :(

On the slightly more positive side, the two blokes who were shot went to aid the woman, so I guess there's still something worthwhile here.

EDIT: latest I've heard is it's a domestic related incident. Still, better to wait for all the facts.

helpless
June 18, 2007, 04:45 AM
Bluey, I feel for you.

xd45gaper
June 18, 2007, 09:23 AM
wait it gets better the whole article was not posted this is the best part of the whole article

Justice Minister David Johnston said Australian firearms laws already were very tight and that it was likely the gun used in Monday's shooting was obtained illegally.

"It is very, very, difficult for a law-abiding citizen to obtain a handgun," Johnston said, adding: "If someone wants to purchase a concealable weapon on the black market they will probably be successful."



good thing they made it so difficult for law abiding citizens to purchase a gun legally. and easy for criminals to purchase a weapon. hats off to the goverment of Australia

SWMAN
June 18, 2007, 09:31 AM
Well, they could blame Virginia for the gun, everybody else does!!!

MEH
June 18, 2007, 09:49 AM
:rolleyes:Double ban the guns! Triple ban the guns! Quadruple ban the guns!:rolleyes:

I really feel sorry for the people in Australia. I met a guy from down under a few weeks ago, when he saw a .22 I was selling he looked like he was going to cry. He wanted that .22 so bad but he said his government won't let him own one:(.

wizard of oz
June 18, 2007, 07:36 PM
From http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,21923515-2,00.html

"A GOOD Samaritan shot dead after going to help a woman in distress in Melbourne this morning was a 43-year-old solicitor, police said.

The unnamed lawyer was one of two men who went to the aid of the woman who was struggling with a man near a taxi on the corner of Flinders Lane and William Street, in Melbourne's CBD, about 8.15am (AEST)."

Comments on the story are interesting - plenty of antis but a lot of common sense also.

coylh
June 27, 2007, 02:20 AM
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0627/p06s02-woap.html

Troops are to be stationed across the Outback as the Australian government launches a massive crackdown on the alcoholism, sexual assault, and social dysfunction that a recent federal investigation alleges are tearing apart Aboriginal communities.

Shocked by the findings of an official report released earlier this month, the government of Prime Minister John Howard has decided to ban alcohol, confiscate pornography, and make welfare payments conditional on good parenting in more than 60 isolated Aboriginal townships.

Kimber1911Fan
June 27, 2007, 09:38 AM
>>Double ban the guns! Triple ban the guns! Quadruple ban the guns!

I propose a double secret ban....
:neener:

Kimber1911Fan

leadcounsel
June 27, 2007, 11:52 AM
Post bigger signs that say they are illegal :D

whited
June 27, 2007, 04:27 PM
Stationing troops in the outback to stop the poor aborigines from doing
naughty things to each other ?!

lol.

As if they give a damn about the natives.

No more Booze or Porn !!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

That's sure to help. And if not, well... we are going to STATION TROOPS
around to see that you don't do these naughty naughty things.
Australia has gone to the dogs long ago, I'm afraid.
Howard is completely unified fully realized idiot of the highest order.

ozwyn
June 27, 2007, 04:33 PM
the stationing troops bit sounds suspiciously like the slide towards a police state... particularly given the long-term nature of such a deployment and the siezure of alcohol and porn.

Maybe next week they will sieze what remains of free newspapers and bibles. that's the kind of road they are walking down

jselvy
June 27, 2007, 04:37 PM
that's the kind of road they are walking down Us too just a little more slowly.

Jefferson

Australian Shooter
July 16, 2007, 03:32 AM
I am an Australian gun owner myself, what Elza said was untrue, some guns are legal here but it takes a while to get them. Don't get me wrong though, I am a huge supporter for gun rights of law-abiding citizens and I believe that Australia should have a clause on its constitution that is similar to the Second Amendment of the US constitution, but sadly, that is not the case. This murder in Melbourne is why Australia needs a concealed carry licensing system. If the bystander who got fatally shot had a handgun to defend himself, then he wouldn't have died.

Vairochana
July 16, 2007, 03:57 AM
Very true- up until the mid 80's quite a lot of people were able to carry handguns for protection as part of their work; bank managers, chemists and such. It really wasn't that long ago and it wasn't long after they were made to stop that it seems the massacres which culminated in Port Arthur and the current laws began.
I am not opposed to a license system as such in the same way that I am not necessarily opposed to a car license, and I do believe that a conceal carry law and "castle law" as found in some US states would be a good thing in here.
In short "Aurstralia needs to HTFU!"

Nematocyst
July 16, 2007, 04:30 AM
Failure is, sometimes, the first step towards success.

Australian Shooter
July 16, 2007, 04:33 AM
Federal elections are coming up, and I definitely know who I am voting for. It was a brilliant call from Keating for him to compare Howard with Hitler.

Nematocyst
July 16, 2007, 04:33 AM
Australian Shooter,

Welcome to THR.

Look around.
Read lots.
Avoid L&P
until after 500.
(Word up. :uhoh: )

Ask questions.
Share knowledge.

Have fun.
Learn lots.

Fosters is in the fridge
by the kitchen door.

Nem

Australian Shooter
July 16, 2007, 04:35 AM
Thanks Nem, I'll keep that in mind.

Nematocyst
July 16, 2007, 04:37 AM
:cool:

Vairochana
July 16, 2007, 04:52 AM
Aussie shooter- trouble is there aren't that many real alternatives- Labor is as bad as the Coalition parties-may be a light at the end of the tunnel if Prime Miniature Coward is voted out, until then might be best to vote for The Shooter's Pary if they have someone standing in your state (I would have added Liberal Democratic Party to that but they seem to have become a non-starter)
Cheers.

Don Gwinn
July 16, 2007, 07:49 PM
If you need Jesse Jackson or Michael Pfleger to hold rallies and vigils down there, folks, don't hesitate to ask.

We'd be happy to send them your way for awhile.

elrod
July 16, 2007, 08:04 PM
Watching the Aussies and the Canadians following the Brits model of gun control reminds me of the diehard football fan who lost 50 bucks on the game Saturday and another 25 on the replay Sunday!:p Some people (govts) just won't learn.:banghead:

Australian Shooter
July 16, 2007, 09:33 PM
Vairochana, Labor might not be as bad as the Coalition, click on this link belowhttp://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/ASJ/ASJ.html, and scroll down to Volume 3: Issue 6 - November 2001 and then click on the link "Politicians' Profiles", a PDF will pop up and go to the section on Kevin Rudd.

fallingblock
July 18, 2007, 02:37 AM
Hi Australian Shooter.

I think that the problem with Rudd is the institutional anti-gun
attitude of the left and centre of the Labour Party.

That and the fact that the Greens and the (happily nearly extinct)
Australian Democrats are natural allies of Labour for many causes.

Not promoting the Libs at all - I hope Howard receives the worst
defeat of his political career in the approaching election.

I don't perceive Labour as being a good thing for shooters.
Certainly "Mad Mark" Latham was not our friend.:scrutiny:

paul the englishman
July 19, 2007, 01:02 PM
You American guys are so damn lucky with your gun ownership laws and should fight tooth and nail to protect those rights.I live in England and believe me,you don't want to ever have the kind of restrictions we have.I am lucky enough to possess some large and small calibre rifles and a number of shotguns,but I can only do so because I am a member of a rifle shooting club,as well as having friends who own farmland.Basically,if you aren't in a rifle club or have no written permission to shoot on private land,you can't own a rifle and pistol ownership has been totally banned for anybody unless you want to own a freakish long-barrelled revolver which again,you can only have if you're a member of a gun club.You have to possess a firearms certificate,and every weapon must be justified for a specific purpose,and you can't own 2 weapons of the same calibre/action,and also,semi-auto rifles cannot be possessed at all unless they are .22 or .17 calibre.On top of all that,even though I have friends with farms in excess of 2,000 acres where I have permission to shoot,I cannot just take my old .303 Enfield for some target practice,because I am only allowed to possess it for use at gun club premises and if I decided to cease my gun club membership,my .303 would be seized by the police and destroyed without any compensation!Also,we have no rights to go into any wilderness or public/government owned land or forests to "plink" or hunt.So,beware Americans,picture your lives controlled like mine is in England!

keeleon
July 19, 2007, 07:50 PM
They MUST have been mistaken. He couldn’t have had a gun. Guns are illegal there!

Get out of my head! I was thinking that EXACT statement.

Black Adder LXX
July 19, 2007, 10:13 PM
See... We need more gun control HERE so our country can be more like *that* :banghead:

Australian Shooter
July 20, 2007, 01:07 AM
The anti-gunners in Australia are also trying to do despicable things other than banning guns outright. They are trying to raise the age that you are allowed to shoot. Currently, in most states of Australia, the minimum age of owning a gun is 18 and the minimum age of being allowed to shoot is 12, this can be done by getting a minor's permit. What the anti-gunners (notably Samantha Lee) are trying to do is abolish this minors permit. This comes after the Inaugural speech made by Roy Smith (NSW MLC) of the Shooters Party about shooting should be introduced to public schools as a sport, just like cricket, AFL, rugby, basketball etc.
What I am saying is, bigots like Lee have to be stopped at all costs.

22-rimfire
July 20, 2007, 09:39 AM
Guns control law are social infection that can not be stopped with medication, only slowed. I wish it were different. USA laws are based on English law as were Australia's foundation of laws. Our children are for the most part taught that guns are evil in schools like drugs and so forth. As time rolls forward, these children take the laws restricting our rights as being the status quo and then when a sensational violent crime is committed with a firearm, the knee jerk reaction is more restrictive laws even if they don't work against criminals or the insane. The people that remember times before the restrictive laws were enacted are becoming a minority and slowly dying off. It does not matter what the truth is. It is all about preserving the government and not about individual rights.

It would be gratifying to see the recently enacted gun control laws disguised as crime control laws in Australia purged before generations of young Australians grow up accepting the law as being completely normal and righteous. Restrictive gun control does not stop with firearms; changes in legal age for shooting, registration, ammunition taxes and restrictions, storage issues, home inspections, knife and blade restrictions, toy gun or replica restrictions and so forth.

It may sound like I'm giving up. I'm not.

Beatnik
July 20, 2007, 10:05 AM
The anti-gunners in Australia are also trying to do despicable things other than banning guns outright.

But incremental, seemingly minor changes are the only real way to enact change like this. You can't go from your situation 30 years ago to a total ban overnight: there'd be too much backlash from the public.

We have groups chipping away slowly at our rights here too - just look at the recent OSHA scandal where they wanted to put such ridiculous restrictions on ammunition that the prices would have gone up to several times what we pay now. Banning through economics.

The thing that you should remember is that it works both ways. We've made great strides in the other direction over here in the last decade. A lot of US States now have to allow licensed concealed carry - that certainly wasn't the case as recently as 1990. But it took time.

Things can change. It just takes a lot of time and effort - and it always seems like it's going too slowly. But just as they slowly started taking your rights from you, so can you work to get them slowly reinstated.

LAR-15
July 20, 2007, 11:56 AM
How many states will abolish the minors permit?

And is it true Tasmania recently banned pump action rifles?

mordechaianiliewicz
July 25, 2007, 06:59 AM
I feel for you guys in Australia. But ultimately, I think it's just a form of control for you. I keep up on y'alls' politics. You have immigrant problems. While they are in many ways worse than ours, and not as bad as France, or Spains' problems, they are significant.

The government has decided to let in a bunch of Chinese and Muslims. Different cultures, different ideas on how to do things. While the Chinese haven't been much of a problem, the Muslims have. They don't want y'all to have weapons or them to in case there is sectarian strife.

But, more importantly, they don't want y'all to have weapons, because if the Muslim thing blows up in your faces, they don't want you guys to be looking for the traitors that caused it.

Atleast that is one explanation of many I've heard. Granted, you say that, and it seems you are deemed a "racist" by most Aussies. Oh well.

What I do know is you guys got screwed in '96 on what was obviously a false flag operation, and if it is ever exposed, heads will role. Make sure it's exposed. The thought of John Howard in an orange jumpsuit with a belly chain taking a perp walk is just priceless to me.

Australian Shooter
July 25, 2007, 10:03 PM
The problem is, a lot, and I mean a lot of people in Australian society is anti-gun. And a lot of people who are licenced gun owners don't care about gun politics.
On a happier note, the number of people who legally own guns is on the rise, and the number of children who participate in shooting sports is also on the rise.

Radagast
July 26, 2007, 12:02 AM
I've not heard anything about Tassie banning pumps, Western Australia has informally banned them, but in return has reduced the restrictions on pump action shotguns.

Queensland Police have stated that anyone in possession of a pump action with a greater than 10 round magazine fitted will be charged, however to do so is not against law as written.

Radagast
July 26, 2007, 12:05 AM
On the positive side, the recent Sydney gun show was the best attended I've seen since '96. My BIL has just taken possession of his new Remington 7615 and is happily tricking it out with all of the AR type goodies he can buy. Life goes on. :)

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