[Riss]

Have done so many that I actually forget them all. The best was a Red Label 12ga over/under that had been damaged. This is, of course, not the Red Label, but a HR 20 ga pump

[brentn]

http://members.shaw.ca/brent_nowell/main/Images/Shotty.jpg

Bought that brand new and took a photo, later on I just bought the parts necessary to make it into a home defence shotty

http://members.shaw.ca/brent_nowell/main/Images/Modified.jpg

I wanted to buy a remington 14" LE as well and add the pistol grips, but once you make it that short its illegal.
The one above is still fully legal and has no restrictions of any kind.
I always wanted to take a remington SPR shotty, over and under and just saw it off into a hand canon, but its not worth the risk, besides I'll never make a registered illegal ever...

One thing I don't like about the above after 6 months of use is the pistol grip on the pump, I could do without. Gives a really good grip but makes the gun not as practical to quickly grab or to sling over onto your back.

[Clemson]

To each his own, but I wouldn't give you a nickle for a shotgun without a buttstock. I much prefer a handgun for hand holding, and pumping a slide action shotgun with only a pistol grip requires a very specific posture.

That's just my take on the matter, but you did ask! :D

Clemson

[Brian Williams]

Nope.

[Rex B]

I just traded for a Mossberg Maverick 88, 18.5" barrel, pistol grip, stainless steel.
I will get a conventional buttstock to replace that pistol grip PDQ.

By the way, I have not found anything on this variant of the 500 series,.
No mention of a SS version. I assume it's stainless, as it does not look to be plated or painted on. There is a later JIC Marine Cruiser, but this has no markings to indicate that.
Can anyone tell me what I bought?

[jwr_747]

thought about it and came to the conclusion that it's not a good idea.all the folks who sell "training" for a living,Gun Site,Thunder Ranch,ect.train with a full stock,must be a reason. jwr

[Riss]

If the shotgun is your choice for defense inside the house, try for once swinging a full stocked 26+ inch barreled 12ga around the corners and into a room as your try to clear it of bad guys. Unless you live in a studio apt it will be tough. Also much easier to conceal a SBS in a closet or next to a nightstand.

[sm]

Nope.

I prefer bone stock, full stocked shotguns, and I want choke for better patterns / slug groups.

Never had a problem with barrels on bone stock guns being 26" , 28" or longer either.

Handy is a Youth H&R Topper, 20 gauge single shot, with fixed modified choke that patterns some of the best pellet loads , including #3 buckshot and slug groups.
Price was less than a $100, and came with a factory recoil pad.

Factory short, light, handy, easy to tote proven reliability, ease of operation for anyone to use and just an old single shot shotgun...


FWIW-
One of the well known defensive shotgun instructors has and totes a bone stock , full stock , double barrel shotgun.

[KodeFore]

I use a Moss500 persuader as a primary home defence gun. I put an ATI pistol grip on it, This gives me 8 shots of 12 is a compact package I keep in a borestore made bag that not only protects the gun but hides it as well. I considered a folding stock,wich is still a temptation, but went with the pistol grip because it was considerably less $$ . For Household ranges, I figure its accurate enough. I am thinking an inexpensive laser would be a practical upgrade.

[Rex B]

Have you shot that Persuader with a pistol grip?
If not, I suggest you do so before a real need arises.
You might find it's not as good an idea as it looks.

[fatelk]

I had an old 500 Persuader with a pistol grip, thought it was pretty funny to load a couple of rounds 1 7/8oz 3" magnum lead goose loads followed by a couple of light target loads. I would fire the target loads then hand the gun to an unsuspecting friend. I know, not nice. :D It's no fun with light loads, downright painful with heavy magnums. You would have to hold it tight or it would fly out of your hands.

I would think that with a lazer at close range it would be effective, but nowadays I prefer a real buttstock.

[Fred Fuller]

Riss,

Airsoft stuff is pretty cheap these days. Get yourself a couple of sets of gear, and try out your "house clearing" with one of the neighborhood kids as the bad guy you are seeking. You might find it educational.

And if you learn the 'indoor ready' position for moving inside a building with a shotgun, you might find a full stock gun perfectly manageable if it ever proves necessary to break cover in the face of intruders.

Just a thought,

lpl/nc

[UKarmourer]

No real experience with a shotgun in this role,
however I know that when using an assault rifle for house clearing, its nice to have the option to 'buttstroke' anyone who comes up inside your space,
not too much of an option with a pistol grip?

[WOODROW]

Think about the possible problems you may have when you are trying to prove to a grand jury that you cut the shotgun down only to make it easier to handle as a home defense weapon. All the while the prosecutor is trying to prove that you did it to make it more deadly so when you used it to shoot an intruder you made sure it was fatal. Innocent until proven guilty, wanna bet your life/freedom on it? I'll stick with my FACTORY Rem. 870 home defense model if I need artillery. :fire:
GOOD LUCK.
SEMPER FI, WOODROW.

[Sunray]

brentn, please reduce the size of your pictures. A dial up poster will be loading this page until Tuesday.
There is nothing on Earth more useless than a shotgun with no stock.

[kid_couteau]

Hi All

I made a snake charmer out of a 12 gauge once and did it hurt to shoot.
Perfectly legal but just not enough to grab.

My "truck gun" is an old 870 Wingmaster I cut down to 20" barrel and mounted a hi-viz type sight on it.

I added a Butler creek folding stock on it. To me this is the best of both worlds

I can shoot it with just the pistol grip if needed or can use the stock, which with 2 3/4" shells is not bad at all.

I consider it more a pack gun then a defensive arm.

Kid

[Gunfixr]

I have owned a couple of pistol-gripped shotguns over the years and will not own another, unless the shotgun is one I really want at a good deal. It will only be that way until I can get a stock for it. While the cut-off stock when done well is reasonably more comfortable to shoot, it is still pretty useless for anything but a fun gun, and only that if you don't mind not hitting a whole lot. Just my experience.

[992]

A Mossberg Tactical Turkey is a fine setup if you want a pistol grip.Shoots 3.5 in.mag shells with out a lot of recoil.really surprised me on how comfortable the T-6 stock is on a shotgun.
The 870 Witness Protection model with the wooden grip,allows the weapon to roll in your hand,instead of coming straight back,like most pistol grip shotguns do.


tc

[KodeFore]

QUote: Have you shot that Persuader with a pistol grip?
If not, I suggest you do so before a real need arises.

Truth was no. That finally changed the other night. I took the Moss 500 to the range with a variety of loads for some quality time. I came to the following conclusions:

Slugs kick like a bear, just like they do on stocked guns, imagine that. Not really suitable for pistol grip shotguns, imo.

oo buck kicks hard, but is managable. All the pellets hit the target, but I wasnt especially impressed with the patterning.

Estate 7 1/2 target load was a pleasant suprise. Just for kicks, I ran the target out to 25 yds. I wasn't expecting much in the way of accuracy from a pistol grip shotgun but got a center mass hit first try. Thats way longer than anything needed for home defence. I found at more realistic ranges of 10 yards or less I could hit center mass just as well as I could as with the gun stocked.

I know Massad Ayoob and some other shooting guru types teach against pistol grip only shotguns for home defence. While I have complete respect for those folks, mine works for me.

Chatting with a range officer, I was suprised to learn that plastic top folding stocks are not very sturdy and tend to break. He did mention some one makes a metal AR style pistol grip that can also style add an M4 telescoping shoulder stock. To me that would seem the best of both worlds

[Joe Demko]

Just for laffs, I will someday do the legal dance to cut down a 20 gauge sxs and make a "Mad Max" sod off. For any serious purpose, a shotgun needs a stock.

[Dave McCracken]

Why does this keep coming up?

No major agency uses PGO shotguns except for breaching.

No major instructor uses one for teaching.

30 minutes on any range will show that it's way easier to get good hits quick with a standard stocked shotgun.

Sheesh!!.....

[Riss]

Wow. Did not try to kick the hornets nest with this one. Most are for a last chance gun. Easier to hide a 26" long gun than a full stocked gun with a 26" barrel. Punishing to shoot, but thats half the fun. And I would never think of clearing a house with a cut down 12ga. Thats what the glock 35 and AR-15 are for.

[kgriggs8@yahoo.com]

I have done it few times. They all end up with buttstocks attached again. The pistol grip is something that has a 'cool' factor and young shooter and newbies love them. I would only put the Speedfeed pistol grip on a shotgun as it is the only one that is worth a darn. I would never put a PG on the forearm as that is going backwards in terms of speed and ergonomics.

PGs on forearms are a sure sign the guy doesn't shoot shotguns often. As much as I hate the agree with all the old farts, I have to say that a regular buttstock is hard to beat. An 18" imp cyl is fine for me. I shoot skeet with my Rem 870 HD and I do as well with it as I would with a OU.

To each their own but I haven't found anything better than a 18" 12ga pump with a regular buttstock for all around use.

[Wayne G.]

There is nothing on Earth more useless than a shotgun with no stock

How bout a fish with tits? :rolleyes:

[trueblue1776]

delete

[CleverNickname]

You guys are shortening the wrong end of the shotgun.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1360/870sbsii4.jpg

[Alphazulu6]

I am actually in the mood to buy a couple more Shotguns :D

[kid_couteau]

How does the copstock work for you Clevernickname?

Kid

[eliphalet]

Skimmed through this and didn't see where it was said to be sure and remember that a shotgun must be 26" overall with a barrel no less than 18". Make it 1/4" to long be safe not sorry.

At just a glance CleaverNickname's shotgun looks very illegal.

[Regolith]

I'm going to put an 18" barrel on my 870 express evenutally (I'm not cutting the 28" barrel that came with it, as I will want to bird hunt with it). But I don't think I'll be replacing the stock or forearm. A full stock gives you better control and can be used as a fairly effective club in a pinch.

[kid_couteau]

Clevernicknames shotgun is illegal if he did not go through the proper paperwork with the ATF.

But I figure he did or he wouldnt have posted it here.

Kid

[CleverNickname]

No, I really enjoy posting evidence of a federal felony on a public board. :rolleyes: Of course it's registered.

The Copstock works pretty good. It's not quite as comfortable as a fixed stock, but it's the best folding stock I've used, and I tried 2 or 3 others before I settled on the Copstock.

[benelli12]

I like cutting down my shotguns, Ive done it to one of my 870s and an nef pardner. For me it's fun to shoot shotguns from the hip, and they're just as easy to pump from the hip as from the shoulder. I have no trouble hitting pop cans from 10-20yds from the hip, it takes a little practice, but once you get it it's quite easy.

[Carl N. Brown]

I bought a shotgun with butt stock and pistol grip.
Tried with pistol grip at the range and at my uncles,
several dozen slugs, #00 buckshot, about 200 #7-1/2
skeet loads over several shooting sessions. It now
wears the full buttstock.

My son bought a Mossberg 500 and acquired a pistol
grip. After a little experience, it, too, now wears a
full buttstock.

Your experience may be different, but our experience was
the pistol grip on a shotgun looks cooler than it shoots.

The recoil puts a lot of stress on the pumphandle and action
bars when shooting with a pistol grip.

[Big Az Al]

I was taught to bring the butstock into my side and hold it with there my arm, even with the 16 inch LOP that I have become acustom to, and a factory twenty inch barrel moving is not that much of an issue.

However I was also taught to let then come at you, as moving makes it easier to be seen while something or someone stationary is easy and/or frequently (maybe even fatally) overlooked.

Using my arm and body to support the shotgun isn't that uncomfortable, is very accuarte, and for those that want to use a semi auto for home defense is needed so that the action will cycle, not mention the action parts that are to long for a pistol grip.

If I had to modify a shotgun to be truly short and versitle I would go with, a CAR style multi postion stock, this is still long enough to pull in against my side, and if I wanted or needed full length is just a click away.

The History Channel had A show on the guns of the gangster era. The shotgun that I was really impressed with, was Clydes, as in Bonnie and Clyde. A REM M11, with the butstock cut just behind the action spring tube, and sling so that it could be carried hands free hanging under his arm. This hands free, easy carry, lightning fast, looks kinds like a see our solders in Iran using, some with slings that do let the rifle hang under one arm and some with rigs to let then hang closer to port arms.