Saw the "made for TV" 44 Minutes "documentary" on TV


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AmericanFreeBird
June 25, 2003, 09:12 AM
Last night (Tues 6/24/03) I saw the made for TV dramatazation of the North Hollywood shootout. Where two bank robbers with a load of evil "assault" rifles and lots 'n lots of ammo just shootup the LAPD.

Aside from the one comment that a police officer makes while "borrowing" some AR's from a local gun shop "You mean they actually let people buy these?". The entire movie, IMHO, makes the LAPD look like a bunch of boobs. (Perhaps that was the only ture part of the movie?)

The absolute ignorance displayed on the part of the LAPD to shooting, ballistics, body armour, and the effective range of the 9mm Beretta M92 was astounding. The shootout dipicts about 30 officers with 12ga shotguns and 9mm pistols shooting from about 40 to 100yds away from their targets (couldn't get any closer I suppose?) while AN ARMOURED CAR is litterally sitting in the background scene. They later use the AC to remove some of the people who were shot from the scene.

They could have ended the whole thing with that armoured car in 10 min. Had they had slugs in their 12ga, they could have ended the encounter as well. The body armour may have stopped the 12ga slug (doubt it) but the person wouldn't be getting up soon even if it did.

On top of all that, the complete lack of preparedness (not a long gun among them), 30 to 40 police and not one of them with a rifle! Any rifleman could have ended that standoff with two shots from a relatively safe distance.

When the boys in blue with the training and the M4's and M16's finally show up, they pull up to point blank range on one BG, put a truck between themselves and the BG and procede to waste several hundred rounds shooting up the truck, the BG's car, and the surrounding neighborhood! Had they stood off 50 to 100yds, just down the street, took up positions to put the BG in a crossfire he'd have assumed room temperature in about 20 shots (based on normal police accuracys).

If I were an LAPD officer, I would not want that film blasted over the airwaves too much. It makes them look like complete idiots. If part of your job involves being able to shoot and shoot well then you'd better know how to do it in a combat situation. This is a pitiful attempt by the LiberMedia to poison the pool and try to get the "assault" weapons ban renewed.

The whole movie really showed how unprepared the city police were to handle anything other than a routine traffic stop.

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wingman
June 25, 2003, 09:37 AM
"You mean they actually let people buy these?".

It amused and angered me that the writers could not resist the above line.
Who thinks the average police officer
would even make this statement in the
heat of a on going street fight that he was seeking help for...

You are correct, any fair to good rifleman
could have stopped this within a couple
mins., shame.

My suggestion to writers , please entertain us but leave the propaganda
to the government.:D

Zip06
June 25, 2003, 11:06 AM
I think the movie illustrated reason for the "active shooter" training which seems to be in vogue. Meanwhile back at the bank, there was little initiative by the cops...that's what they were trained to do; secure the perimeter and wait for someone with overwhelming force.

Pat S
June 25, 2003, 11:41 AM
I don't know if it's true or not but I had heard that the machine guns they used came into the country via Mexico. Anyone know if this is true or not?


Stay Safe, Pat S

Alan Smithiee
June 25, 2003, 02:51 PM
I'm still wondering why they just never tried to run them down with a vehicle? or were there no ex tank drivers involved amongst the PD involved?

Steve in PA
June 25, 2003, 05:24 PM
Ahhh........movies ya see on tv.....and Monday morning quaterbacks............ain't life grand!!:banghead:

Mark Tyson
June 25, 2003, 07:45 PM
Just "running them down" is easy to say, but have you ever driven into a blizzard of automatic gunfire?

Dorian
June 25, 2003, 07:57 PM
The whole movie really showed how unprepared the city police were to handle anything other than a routine traffic stop.

That was a big thing after the north hollywood shootout. LAPD has since made rifles available to all of their officers. Along with much better body armor available now.

They did a really big review of the preparedness of their police agencies and changed a whole lot of things.

Aside from that, the movie pissed me off too. Just that one line in the gun store ruined the whole movie for me.

Alan Smithiee
June 26, 2003, 12:25 AM
as a matter of fact yes I have, granted it was in armored vehicle, and I never said it was a good idea. (I know I was scared spitless when I did it). I just said I wondered why they didn't try it. it is a question I have heard from a number of people as well.

Steve in PA
June 26, 2003, 07:46 AM
Because police aren't trained to jump in a vehicle and run them over. Train as you fight.....fight as you train sotra thing.

BTW.....the question is heard from whom????? Chairborne rangers who think they could have done better??:fire:

bpisler
June 26, 2003, 08:49 AM
Anybody else notice the oversize holes the AK's bullets bullets made
in the patrol cars?

Double Naught Spy
June 26, 2003, 09:56 AM
The only vehicle the cops could have used to run down the shooters was the armored car they borrowed for rescue downed officers. The vehicle would have done fairly well until the 'bullet proof' glass collapsed after being overloaded by full auto and AP rounds.

It is a shame 44 Minutes turned out like it did. The movie had some real potential to give a personal side to the story and instead it took artistic license with a bunch of the events, changed things around some, and presented a somewhat fictional version all in the name of making the movie more exciting. The real shame is that the real life event was exciting to start with and did not need embellisment.

Alan Smithiee
June 26, 2003, 12:33 PM
such hostility to a comment. not everyone who asks questions or states an oppinion is a "chairborn commando" or a Monday morning quarterback. (although I've seen a lot of both around here) maybe they would like an answer to the question.

one of the people who made the comment to me was local PD, someone else who asked that question is ex military and a pistol instructor.

and you know, sometimes things you see in movies actualy work in real life.

it's not like LAPD doesn't have any experience ramming things with cars.

geekWithA.45
June 26, 2003, 04:06 PM
The whole movie really showed how unprepared the city police were to handle anything other than a routine traffic stop.

No, the real point of the movie was to show how invincible the bad guys are when they have "assault weapons" and armor, and why we should keep such evil things out of everyone's hands at all costs. :barf:

Steve in PA
June 26, 2003, 05:22 PM
Lucky me........I'm post military (USMC)......a LEO and A Firearms Instructor :D When the armored car came into the picture....I'm pretty sure their priority was to use it to get to the downed officers and citizens.

You get reactions to that incident because of all the individuals on gun boards who say....."I could have done this.......or I would have done that.......I could have done it better"...........yeah, ok.

I haven't seen the movie....although I've seen enough of the documentaries.........and remember watching it live on TV. I was living in California at the time of the incident.

The point of the movie should have been........to prove to the higher ups in the department........how under trained the average street cops were.

Before the bank robbery.......no one......I mean no one could have imagined an event like that would have happened. Banks are held up by one guy with a handgun.......not several (original reports were that there was possibly three people) wrapped in body armor and heavily armed with automatic weapons.

Alot of people died because California and the LAPD tried to be politically correct.........not allowing long guns, specifically rifles in their vehicles.

Has anyone ever been to LA?????? I have.......lived about 50 miles away from the city. Heck.......I wouldn't want to patrol those streets without a Cobra gunship escort!!!

The big problem was that the LEOS came to a gun fight......basically with a knife.

Alan Smithiee
June 26, 2003, 07:47 PM
> Lucky me........I'm post military
> (USMC)......a LEO and A Firearms
> Instructor When the armored car
> came into the picture....I'm pretty
> sure their priority was to use it to
> get to the downed officers and
> citizens.

question: was that the right priority? my line of thinking went "run them down and you don't have to worry about pickups under fire because there is no more fire"

> You get reactions to that incident
> because of all the individuals on gun
> boards who say....."I could have
> done this.......or I would have done
> that.......I could have done it
> better"...........yeah, ok.

never said I could have done it better, I wasn't there, I'm not a cop, I'm an ex zipper head, (tank driver) I live in a place where if they tried that 90 people would have hauled rifles out of the pickups and than would have been the end of it., I asked a question. that was all.

> Alot of people died because California > and the LAPD tried to be politically
> correct.........not allowing long guns,
> specifically rifles in their vehicles.

uhm, if I recall the only 2 deaths were the perps... did I miss something?

we gave up on the "movie" after about 20 minutes. so we haven't seen all of it

> The big problem was that the LEOS
> came to a gun fight......basically with
> a knife.

based on avalable data I sure can't argue that!

Steve in PA
June 26, 2003, 09:46 PM
"alot of people died........ should have been alot of people were injured".....my bad

My statements were not personally directed at you.........but you have to understand that since that event happened..........alot of people.........get peeved with all the "I could have done better than that".......crap.

So called expert shooters who stand in front of a target that doesn't shoot back and say......."heck I would have taken them out with a head shot".........get under my skin.

Alan Smithiee
June 27, 2003, 12:36 AM
"My statements were not personally directed at you.........but you have to understand that since that event happened..........alot of people.........get peeved with all the "I could have done better than that".......crap.

So called expert shooters who stand in front of a target that doesn't shoot back and say......."heck I would have taken them out with a head shot".........get under my skin."

been there.. done that too. but you don't shoot at every sound. things have been hostile enough latley without us shooting at each other...

MMcCall
June 27, 2003, 04:17 AM
I was kind of disappointed by the movie, but not because of the gun shop line. Many cops are not firearms aficionados nor up on all the laws, I know a few cops that I can see making a statement like this. At least the gun shop owner mentioned the background check by way of rebuttal.

What bothered me was the fact that you've got 20 cops, behind cover, blazing away at these guys while they're STANDING STILL.. statistically, wouldn't someone have *accidentally* gotten a headshot?

Apple a Day
June 27, 2003, 07:11 AM
"Alot of people died because California and the LAPD tried to be politically correct"

No one but the bank robbers got killed. There were about a dozen cops who were wounded and a handful of bystanders who got plugged. The movie didn't do much to emphasize the fact that those guys pounded off a few thousand rounds of 'deadly 7.62mm ammunition designed to go through body armor' and killed nary a person. That was as much luck and good EMTs as anything else but an interesting tidbit nonetheless. :scrutiny:

Steve in PA
June 27, 2003, 07:47 AM
Yes......only the BG's died........my bad.

Zip06
June 27, 2003, 08:38 AM
In that shootout, if the movie were to be taken as accurate, LE was lucky to the point of a miracle. Can you imagine what would have happened if the bad guys had used their sights?

AmericanFreeBird
June 27, 2003, 09:03 AM
Being ex-military, I have been shot at. Not a pleasant experience nor one I'd choose to repeat.

Simply throwing rounds from a 9mm pistol at a body armoured individual without a coordinated attack is foolish at best IMO.

Regardless the movie was indeed a cheap shot at the AWB renewal issue. A total though typical holywood sham on reality.

seeker_two
June 27, 2003, 11:32 AM
I haven't wasted my time in seeing this movie. It's Hollywood's interpretation--what did you expect?

Nanaimo Barr asked the question I'd always wondered about--why didn't they use the armored car to make pavement pancakes out of the two killers? And, after the dialogue on the subject, I STILL think it's a good idea.

Moral to the story: When confronted w/ firepower & armor, bring MORE (& ACCURATE) FIREPOWER & BIGGER ARMOR... :evil:

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