wal-mart's new ammo policy!


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mister_wilburn
June 19, 2007, 05:45 PM
I just got back from Walmart, in El Paso TX. What happened there disturbed me. I went to Sporting Goods, picked up 2 boxes of ammo, and paid for it. A couple associates were discussing that stores new policy on ammunition. I am a quick reader and caught a line and what it said. Then I asked if it said what I thought it said, they allowed me to read the memo and here is what it said (quotes are actual lines from the memo): "Any Mexican looking individual who wants to purchase ammunition from Walmart must show proof of citizenship for more than 3 months." This is ethnic profiling and racial profiling all wrapped up in one big ball of wrong! Hopefully just this store has instituted this horrible policy, and it can be corrected immediately. By the way, no one asked for my ID.

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PILMAN
June 19, 2007, 05:47 PM
Never seen a sign like that here.

fletcher
June 19, 2007, 05:47 PM
I'm not aware that it is unlawful for a non-US citizen to purchase ammunition.

Sounds like a local store policy.

mister_wilburn
June 19, 2007, 05:50 PM
Spoke with walmart corp. office, its a local store policy (not everywheres policy). Im also not debating that non-us citizens should be allowed to purchase ammo, im saying that the policy they put forth is wrong...you can't tell an employee to profile their customers and pick and choose who to card at random (except for age, such as smokes, alcohol ect.)

wdlsguy
June 19, 2007, 05:51 PM
There are restrictions on nonimmigrant aliens.

Nonimmigrant Aliens Purchasing Firearms and Ammunition in the United States (http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/p5300_18.htm)

xd9fan
June 19, 2007, 06:02 PM
you mean illegal aliens.....

tmajors
June 19, 2007, 06:05 PM
Any Mexican looking individual who wants to purchase ammunition from Walmart must show proof of citizenship for more than 3 months.

That is most definitely NOT corporate verbage. That came out of the desk of the store or regional manager. I'd go back to the store and get a copy and send it off to Walmart corporate.

Titan6
June 19, 2007, 06:05 PM
''Mexican Looking'' Hmmm.... El Paso is almost 90% Hispanic. I guess they will be carding just about everybody...

Dain Bramage
June 19, 2007, 06:16 PM
According to the post by wdlsguy, there are restrictions for illegal aliens to purchase ammo. I don't see anything wrong with Walmart trying to abide by the law at the point of sale.

And for anyone thinking that the US is being unfair, try visiting Tijuana with a few .22 cartridges rolling loose in your car and see what happens.

elrod
June 19, 2007, 06:18 PM
Do you mean a store attempting to determine if a person is a criminal before selling him ammo has got your bloomers in a bunch? Do you have to show your ID when you buy a firearm? You had better pray that the US begins to use ethnic and racial profiling before its too late. All this PC BS that has us strip search 80 y/o grammas in airports while allowing Arab men with backpacks free access to the airplane is asinine.:fire:
Were you afraid that some of the Mexicans got their feelings hurt?? I sure hope they did! I got mine hurt when they crashed my health care system, my welfare system, and my system of law. And you are whining about being asked if they are here legally?:fire::cuss::fire:

MikeH
June 19, 2007, 06:20 PM
you mean illegal aliens.....

Nope, not just illegal aliens. Legal non-immigrants (tourists, students, temporary workers) are prohibited from purchasing or possessing ammo. Some exceptions are made for athletes, licensed hunters, etc.

Personally, I have no problem with having to show proof of citizenship when I buy guns 'n ammo, as long as every other US citizen, regardless of race, is required to do the same.

.cheese.
June 19, 2007, 06:23 PM
elrod - the OP's point is valid. Walmart can ask everybody to present proof of legal residency or nobody. They cannot legally however racially profile.

wdlsguy
June 19, 2007, 06:23 PM
Illegal aliens are prohibited from owning firearms or ammunition. Nonimmigrant aliens can own firearms and ammunition if they follow the rules.

db_tanker
June 19, 2007, 06:24 PM
I am thinking that the wording could have been, COULD have been a bit more eloquent...barring that, I don't see an issue.

IIRC there is a small issue with the border towns having gangs from both sides trying to interdict one another's drug trade...I simply see this Wally World as trying not to help in this.


MTCW
D

damien
June 19, 2007, 06:26 PM
A nonimmigrant alien generally MAY NOT purchase ammunition from an FFL or a nonlicensee to possess in the United States. If you violate this prohibition, you could receive a maximum of 10 years of imprisonment.

A nonimmigrant alien generally MAY NOT purchase a firearm from a nonlicensee to possess in the United States. If you violate this prohibition, you could receive a maximum of 5 or 10 years of imprisonment, depending on the violation.

A nonimmigrant alien generally MAY NOT purchase ammunition from an FFL or a nonlicensee to possess in the United States. If you violate this prohibition, you could receive a maximum of 10 years of imprisonment.


Gee, this would be a pretty good statute to use against all of the Mexican gangbangers that are arrested on an almost daily basis. Any idea why the federal government doesn't bother enforcing this law either?

madmike
June 19, 2007, 07:12 PM
"Mexican looking" is vague and insulting.

"We reserve the right to ask for..." would be better.

However, how do you "prove" citizenship? Just carry naturalization papers around?

And legal resident aliens can buy weapons. You don't have to be a citizen.

Elrod, your attitude is very non-American in character, and seems to support the concept of a police state. I'll have to ask you to provide 3 months proof of citizenship before you post again. We don't want any Commies or Nazis corrupting our American values.:rolleyes:

mister_wilburn
June 19, 2007, 07:28 PM
Should have known that at least one person would put this into a "bleeding heart trying to help the illegal" thread, well its not. I am glad to see that more people have chimed in with "all or none" when it comes to policies regarding firearm and firearm accessories (read: ammo). I dont mind showing proof im a state resident, or that im a US resident, I have to do so to buy my camel lights every week (i dont have any other forms of id that were issued by someone other than TX or USA) What I do mind is when someone is singled out because of their looks, or ethnicity and required to do more to purchase something than this white guy with a southern accent. This post had nothing to do with criminals, they can have forms of ID proving their citizenship, it was about all or none having to follow the rules. The point about "reserving the right to": a good point, that would work, there are plenty of ways around it, ie. Age verification required, proof of id required. Not, hey, i dont like you, you look like X, so extra steps for you. That, my friend is a dangerous road that I dont want to go down, what's next?

SoCalShooter
June 19, 2007, 07:36 PM
Its easy to forge those types of papers especially if you are going to have a wally world associate checking them.

esmith
June 19, 2007, 07:43 PM
Something you need to understand. Because you live in Texas you're going to face the most problems with illegal immigration. What you also need to know is that every illegal immigrant is a criminal. Every Mexican who crossed that border has broken the immigration policy and laws here in the U.S. Now say if an illegal immigrant (who is NOT a citizen) in the U.S goes to buy ammo at Wal-Mart. Now say if you were the head of Wal-Mart. Would you want to be responsible for giving a criminal ammunition? Say if that illegal alien went and shot up 10 people. Would you want to feel responsible?

Racial profiling is not wrong in any way. It is not racist if its helping a criminal get behind bars. Why do you think cops always make a sketch of a criminal after an incident? Plus do you hear people crying out, "Its racial profiling!" after hearing the news about a white criminal? I know I haven't. It's usually only with hispanics or black people. Now maybe the way the Wal marts memo was drawn up sounded a little crude, but it is only the will of the company.

wdlsguy
June 19, 2007, 07:58 PM
I suspect Walmart is simply trying to avoid a violation of 18 USC 922(d) (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html):
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
...
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));
...

BBQJOE
June 19, 2007, 08:20 PM
If you see a guy in tattered clothing with a dog, pushing a shopping cart full of assorted clothing and junk, also carrying a cardboard sign,
can you safely assume this is a homeless person?
More than likely.
Why?
Because he has all of the signs of a homeless person.

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, chances are it's a duck.

It's not profiling, it's calling it the way you see it.

If a store calls in a robbery, and it is reported that the robber was a black man, should they only look for people who aren't black in order to not be racially profiling someone?

NO!!!

If he looks like an illegal alien, acts like an illegal alien, chances are that he is.

And the law has provisions for their possession of arms and ammo.
Get over it!

PC has to go in order to save this country.

esmith
June 19, 2007, 08:43 PM
^I second that.

never_retreat
June 19, 2007, 09:03 PM
mister_wilburn
I just got back from Walmart, in El Paso TX. What happened there disturbed me. I went to Sporting Goods, picked up 2 boxes of ammo, and paid for it. A couple associates were discussing that stores new policy on ammunition. I am a quick reader and caught a line and what it said. Then I asked if it said what I thought it said, they allowed me to read the memo and here is what it said (quotes are actual lines from the memo): "Any Mexican looking individual who wants to purchase ammunition from Walmart must show proof of citizenship for more than 3 months." This is ethnic profiling and racial profiling all wrapped up in one big ball of wrong! Hopefully just this store has instituted this horrible policy, and it can be corrected immediately. By the way, no one asked for my ID.

Maybe they should just take this one step farther and not let the illegals into the store at all. I think I'm on to something here. :evil:

Car Knocker
June 19, 2007, 09:03 PM
PC has to go in order to save this country.

Correct. That's why we need REAL-ID. :D

lamazza
June 19, 2007, 09:22 PM
I get carded every time I buy ammo at walmart to make sure that I am a resident of that STATE. I see nothing wrong with that.
And whats wrong with racial profiling? Where there is smoke there is usually fire too. The only people indignant about being carded are the ones that are hiding something..remember trying to buy beer when you were 17?

TallPine
June 19, 2007, 10:42 PM
I lived in New Mexico for a while. In some areas 98% of the people are "Hispanic". The families of some of those people have been in that area since the 1600s, and became US citizens when we seized the territory from Mexico.

gyp_c2
June 19, 2007, 10:49 PM
...really?
It doesn't piss you off to be carded to buy a legal product?
...it sure does me...
What about when they demand a computer code on yer' wrist?
...that gonna' piss you off?
...or whatever they decide will make us all safer...

I still don't require anyone to look after me and mine...I can do that myself...
Making it safe kinda' ruins it for me...http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch06.gif

bluetopper
June 19, 2007, 11:14 PM
I'm all for racial profiling or any other kind of profiling that catches the criminal. By profiling, State Troopers can discern who is probably transporting narcotics on the interstate highways.
And on the border you have a higher percentage of illegals who are trying to buy ammo because you have a higher percentage of illegals there period. And 99.99999% of those are Mexican, that's just the facts. Call a spade a spade.

obxned
June 19, 2007, 11:22 PM
If it is ok to card people to prevent those you cannot legally purchase tobacco or alcohol from doing so, then why would anyone have a problem with carding people to be sure they can legally purchase ammo?

crazed_ss
June 19, 2007, 11:24 PM
How does profiling dark skin people fit in with you guys' libertarian views? Just because someone looks Hispanic isnt a reason to assume they're Hispanic.

EDIT: Thinking like you guys is why California is about to get another gun control bill. We're about to have to pass a background check to purchase pistol ammo. You guys should be careful with what you support to catch criminals.. those measures often end up hassling law-abiding people. The ends cannot justify the means.

mister_wilburn
June 19, 2007, 11:26 PM
This thread has taken a big step towards anti-immigration policies and their effects...for that I'm sorry. It was not meant to be a statement concerning that. Anyhow, each attempt at reconciling my opinions, and thats all they are, seem to have failed, oh well.

Art Eatman
June 19, 2007, 11:30 PM
Enuf, then.

Art

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