Why the "BUG" for CCW?

[Snowdog]

It's hard to believe I've carried concealed for a decade now, but I can say I've developed a few preferences over those years. It's come to my attention that I never carry a back up gun (BUG, whatever you want to call it). I have a P32 that I trust and I've carried it for years during short jaunts here and there, but I primarily carry a Kahr K9 with 147gr Winchester Rangers.

When a close friend of mine who just obtained his CCW was asking for tips, he asked what method I use for carrying my back-up gun. I told him I haven't yet carried a "back up gun" and don't plan to... ever. I told him I'm completely confident in my abilities with my primary. He seemed surprised, but I don't know why. I explained to him that I would likely carry a back up to augment my primary handgun if I were in law enforcement and on duty, but I questioned why I should feel the need to carry a "back up" as I'm not and I don’t otherwise stand out as a target or work/live in a particularly dangerous environment. He was shocked that I would question the need and pointed out he wouldn't see a problem with a back up...for the back up (yes, three handguns for CCW). I told him his views might adjust a bit after a couple years. He didn’t take well to that, it seems.

In retrospect, I know I could have handled the inquiry better, but I wasn't expecting someone to challenge my CCW preferences. Hey, if there’s a significant social breakdown and ensuing bedlam, I’ll still carry my K9… as back up to my FAL and 1911. However, after ten years of daily carry, I must say that I'm set in my ways and I can't say those "ways" are flawed.
I admit that I should carry a spare magazine more often, I'm absolutely confident in my practices.
Now that I'm aware of this topic, I've noticed a few threads concerning "back up guns".

Here's a question for those here who carry concealed that aren't involved in law enforcement, live near/travel through in a notoriously dangerous neighborhood or have mitigating reasons to believe they likely to engage in combat: Do you carry a BUG? If so, whatever for? Not to critique the carry philosophy of others, but why would someone "feel the need" to carry a back up?

[Jorg]

You may be interested in the recent discussion of this here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282054

[Snowdog]

Ah, I suppose I need to visit the forums more often. It seems I missed that post. Thanks for the heads-up, Jorg.

[deputy tom]

Snowdog,when I carried a service revolver I had a BUG.For CCW I only carry one firearm,a reload and a large folding knife.YMMV.tom.

[Gator]

I can see no reason to carry a BUG as a civilian.

[Jeff F]

I carry a six shooter and if I do carry a re load its just six rounds in my pocket. I feel if the six in my sidearm don't get er done then I was in it deep.

[gazpacho]

While I do sometimes carry a "BUG", I prefer to consider it as "layered" protection.

For the most part I ALWAYS carry my P32. At home, or out-and-about, it remains in my weak-side front pocket. If I'm in the backyard, getting the mail, or even walking over to the neighbor's house, I rarely strap on another gun. The P32 is fine, weight next to nothing, and due to habitual use, I rarely notice that its there.

When I go out, I will usually ADD a second firearm. Most of the time its a S&W 340 PD, but sometimes I'll switch to a Colt Commander, not because of any perceived threat, but just because I want to.

Having the P32 still in my pocket does give me a distinct advantage. In times when I'm alerted to a potential threat, I can easily slip my weak-side hand into my pocket and grasp the P32, but still appear non-threatening. Thus prepared, my reaction time in presenting the P32 is WAY faster than drawing the main gun. Also, my strong-side hand is still available to draw the larger gun, fend off an attack, open a car door, make a cell phone call, etc.

When I get home, I ditch the larger gun, but still have the P32 available.

[Clipper]

I like to keep life simple. I feel fully confident in my abilities and my KT P3AT and a spare mag. However, I will purchase a PF-9 shortly as an upgrade. Some of the BUG posts I see read like someone who's seen a couple too many Wesley Snipes movies...

[jeepmor]

I don't see the point as a civilian either. I think some people just like exercise that comes with carrying more weight. As for LEO's, I think it's warranted for their likeliehood of using a firearm far exceed that of us civilians.

Maybe during the Katrina fallout so you would have another firearm after the Government employed JBT's took your primary during a stop, beyond that, I don't see the need.

[buzz_knox]

You need a backup for the same reason you need a primary: if you need to draw a weapon, you are already having the worst day of your life. Mr. Murphy will try to make that day worse by having it be the day 1) your firing pin broke and you didn't know it; 2) you limpwristed on the first round and your weapon has malfunctioned (between a 2 and 8 second clearance, depending on type of malf and weapon); or 3) you have a bag of groceries/child/etc in your dominant hand and getting to the primary takes too long.

[Teufelhunden]

you have a bag of groceries/child/etc in your dominant hand and getting to the primary takes too long.

Simple solution: Don't tie up your shooting arm. I keep my right arm free from the habit I acquired in the Marine Corps of keeping it free to salute. ;)

As regards BUGs, I know plenty of cops that don't even carry them. I've got a laissez-faire attitude towards BUGs. If you think you need 6 guns to make it through the day, well, you've assessed your needs and decided what you're comfortable with. As long as whatever that person does with his 6 guns isn't illegal or immoral, I don't have a problem with it.

Personally, when I'm off-duty, I feel fine with my Springfield XD with one spare mag. In my estimation, my most likely point of failure in my semi-auto is the magazine, so I carry a spare one of those and practice my stoppage drills. I figure stripping a mag and reloading can't take anymore time than digging another gun off of your ankle. If the problem is a true malfunction, by the time I've finished my immediate action for a stoppage and determined it didn't work, the matter will have probably already been decided.

Assess your own desires. Balance them against your needs. Balance that against practicality.

-Teuf

[redneckrepairs]

I ccw two . I ranch and farm so my waistband gun is loaded with 'vermin' ammo and my " bug " is loaded with defense ammo ( both are kahr 9mms ) . If momma and i go to town both get loaded with defense ammo so i can hand her one if needed . She has a ccw but carrys off body and sometimes her rig spends as much time locked in the trunk as it does with her .

[Srigs]

Because your primary arm maybe occupied when you need it most. That is why my back up is available to my weak side arm.

I use which ever gun is more tactically correct. Primary on my hip and back up in a pocket. I can have my hand on my BUG in the pocket ready to pull if I'm going to the car at night. Try that with the primary on your hip! ;)

[DawgFvr]

If I have a revolver, I never even think about a bug. Carrying an auto is a different story. Anybody can at least carry a P3AT in their weak side pocket...and not even notice the weight. I only carry a bug when I go downtown or am in known bad areas of my state.

[Oldskoolfan]

If we were allowed to carry in this stupid state I would carry 2 guns. Probably a combination that allowed me to use the same magazines. An HK2000 and a P2000sk most likely with a spare mag. Either way if it makes you comfortable then do it.

[Squidward]

I agree with Gator: :I can see no reason to carry a BUG as a civilian. "

[captainamerica]

A bug is for primary weapon failures/malfunctions and quick reloads (actually no reloads) if someone would rather go that route than carry a lot of extra magazines or speedloaders/speedstrips. And with bugs getting so small (similar to .25 autos of the past) with much more power I like carry a bug.

[Daemon688]

My reason for carrying a BUG? My primary is at the 12 o'clock position. I can forsee circumstances where drawing from that position would get me shot (mugging). So with a P3AT in the back pocket, it looks like I'm going to be reaching for my wallet.

[Nomad, 2nd]

YOU see no reason for a BUG. OTHERS see no reason for A gun!

I have learned
3 is 2
2 is 1
1 is none.

One is avalable with ether hand, one I can get to sitting down, one standing up (Descretely)

One Is on the front, one is on the back....

It works.

[scubie02]

well, if nothing else--most people carry a primary at 3 or 4 on the hip--hard to get to when seated in a vehicle, whereas that ankle rig is suddenly easy and discrete to get to...

[orionengnr]

There are some pretty good arguments being posted.

Maybe I need to re-think my position. If nothing else, it gives me an excuse to buy a P3AT or P32.

Have I said it lately? I love THR. :)

[DavidVS]

I can see no reason to carry a BUG as a civilian.

Don't tie up your shooting arm.

I'm with Gator and Teufelhunden. In a crisis I expect I'd also be doing something else: calling 911 on my cell phone, holding a flashlight or spray at home, helping people get to safety, etc.

But I can think of two situations in which I would carry my NAA Black Widow as well as my S&W 351PD.

(1) At an open carry coffe house event, or something similar. With the little NAA I can pop out the cylinder and let someone who is new to guns safely play with the frame. I can't do hands-on "gun evangelism" with my S&W.

(2) If a local university/college or church/synagogue had recently suffered a gun crime, I'd carry both my guns. If (Heaven forbid) a copycat crime happened and a shooter was attacking the room I was in or one near it then I would have the option of handing the smaller gun to someone else if a suitably responsible and qualified person were present.

[Croyance]

I don't think a back up gun has anything to do with your ability with your primary gun, it is the fact that **** happens and it is a particularly bad time if and when your primary fails.
Sometimes getting to your primary gun is difficult, like when you are sitting, especially if there is a seat back,

[ArchAngelCD]

I also see no reason for a civilian to carry a BUG under normal circumstances.

Police Officers are another matter all together. I would add a J frame (or even a small semi-auto of the same caliber as the service weapon) as a BUG to the service weapon.

[Rexster]

If we use a bean-counter approach, there is no logical reason for any of us to carry any gun! That is why I don't buy the argument that there is no reason for a "civilian" to carry a backup or second gun. We must all choose our level of preparation and comfort, and I will not judge anyone who has truly, carefully considered the subject, and chosen to carry one, two, three, or none.

[Croyance]

"Under normal circumstance" there is no reason for civilians to carry a BUG?
If circumstances were normal, the primary gun is just dead weight on your belt anyways.

[vanilla_gorilla]

At least this thread hasn't gone the way of another BUG thread I participated in recently in which I was called a paranoid freak for favoring a BUG. :fire:

Under normal circumstances, you wouldn't even need to carry a gun, much less a back up gun. So why bother to carry? My own experience leads me to believe that when things go bad, they get REALLY bad. I carry a spare mag and under most circumstances, a BUG. If you don't want to, that's fine too. Can't fault you for that. Personal choices are personal choices.

Clint Smith: "What do I have to be paranoid for? I'm the one with the gun!" :D

[The Lone Haranguer]

I don't currently do so as the guns/carry methods I use make carrying two guns a bit burdensome when combined with a reload, cell phone, wallet, keys and (sometimes) flashlight. I would have to make some adjustments. But is there any reason not to? These sound like some good reasons:

1. It's faster to draw a second gun than to reload, should you shoot the first one dry.
2. It's also faster than clearing a malfunction.
(Note: The above do present a problem in what to do with the first gun.)
3. With the extremely close distances found in many gunfights, you could be grappled and have your gun taken away, dropped, etc.
4. In a reverse role, suppose you feel threatened but the situation doesn't yet call for drawing your gun, which is an obvious and overt act and could be considered "brandishing." But you can unobtrusively slip your hand into a pants or coat pocket and already have your hand on a gun.
5. While not precisely on topic, you do need a replacement gun if you're in a shooting. The police are going to take it away from you and hold it until the investigation is complete and/or the case adjudicated.

I would consider three guns to be crossing over the line from prepared to paranoid. ;)

[Macpherson]

Not to bring things too far off topic here, but would there be any possible legal ramifications to carrying 2 or even 3 guns? I know it is mostly up to the DA to decide how to handle the case, but I can envision a scenario where the CCW'er is painted as paranoid or looking for trouble because one gun isn't enough. I don't CCW, but if I did so, I would carry ONE gun. I dislike having bulky objects in my pocket; it's bad enough just with my phone, keys and wallet, so it's hard to imagine putting a gun into the mix, let alone two. It's easy to find small pocket guns, but if you have one of those, whats the point of having one on your back? It seems to me that unless one is planning to go John Woo style with both guns at once, one of those guns is going to be useless weight.

The number of situations where A) a person has the ability/opportunity to draw against the BG, B) Is forced to fire the weapon, C) Where some malfunction or other circumstance occurs that disables the primary weapon and D) The threat still exists after this circumstance and E) There is time/ability to deploy the BUG. The probability of this happening to the average civilian is probably in the hundredths of a percent, if not lower, and if you are thinking that things are going to be that bad, why are you not wearing a vest? That's far more likely to be of use than another gun. Buy a good reliable weapon for carry, practice with it, and keep it where you can get at it.

[Ala Dan]

Just in case- ;):scrutiny::D

[HiWayMan]

Well I'm just a lowly "CIVILIAN", no badge or nothing.

I carry two guns, sometimes three. My justification.........I pay my taxes, and I don't like the idea of a "non-civilian" having more firearms than me.

When you pay my taxes, you can tell me how many guns I can carry.

[Snowdog]

Primary CCW as a Glock 21, back up as a G23 and he's looking to purchase a .380acp or 9mm for ankle carry. This is the set-up my buddy is going with. He's very much of the belief if you need one gun, you might need two (or three). Yep, 3 handguns... and two knives. I still think his veiws will change within his first year of carry.

Thanks for the replies, folks. Again, I haven't the slightest problem with other carrying a BUG or 5 or 10... as long as they're law abiding, I simply don't care. However, after noticing my buddy's (current) preferences, I was simply wondering if other feel the same and why.

As for me, my K9 and Benchmade Stryker give me all the "warm 'n fuzzys" I need.

[Rumble]

MacPherson, the only real legal ramifications I can see (besides the "overzealous prosecutor", which certainly might happen) is that some states only permit the carrying of a single firearm using their CCW permit. So, if you carry two...you might get in trouble (if discovered, etc.).