Pocket Carry

[ArgosTCS]

I've recently applied for my Carry Permit in TN and am now in the market for a carry firearm. I'll be working at a law firm and will be wearing a suit/tie everyday. As such, I'm thinking pocket carry is my best option. I have a budget of around $850. I'm drawn to the idea of a airweight J-Frame in .357 Magnum, but have heard they are MISERABLE to shoot. My thought was I could practice with .38 special and carry .357 since adrenaline will be pumping. (I don't meant never practiced with .357, but when shooting for fun/general practice, shoot .38). This would then give me the option of buying a full size 9mm to have for "fun." (A used hi-power or Sig would be my thought on this.) The other possibility I've considered is a Kahr PM9. That would mean it would be my only firearm (given the cost), however, and I'm not sure about how "fun" it is going to be to shoot/practice with. I know a PM9 isn't going to be $850, but I would want a fullsize semi-auto for my second gun, and I could not get what I want in a fullsize AND the PM9. I'm not interested in Kel-Tecs.

So, given that I need a pocket piece, own zero firearms, and have the aforementioned monetary restraint, what would you suggest?

Thanks in advance. I'm headed to a big gun show this weekend where I'll hopefully be making a purchase or two.

[Abner]

Given your cost restraints and that you mention wanting a full size 9 as well, I would suggest an S&W 642 for ~350-400 and the rest can go into a Glock 9, XD 9or M&P 9.

Adam

[Wedge]

If you are wearing a suit and tie...why limit yourself to a pocket gun?

[PracticeFreedom]

For $850 I'd buy 2 guns.
A 642 (or similar) .38 airweight to carry loaded with 135gr +p "snub-load Gold Dots"
and a Steel framed one for practice (850 should easily pay for both)

I'm not a fan of airweights shooting full-house .357 (or even .38s for constant practice) nor would I want to carry a steel one one day-in and out in a pocket holster.

[ArgosTCS]

The jacket comes off when I hit the office door unless I'm headed to court, in which case the gun isn't coming with me anyway.

[Tomcat47]

You could go with a Taurus Mellinium Pro in 9mm & even the Titanium slide version, and for backup or deep carry I love the Baretta Tomcat 3032 .32 ACP.
Awesome little piece, if you doubt the .32 Tomcat shoot one!

I actually carry a Taurus PT58HC (19+1) a little bigger than the Mellinium, however the mellinium is a little easier to conceal. I personally like the all metal firearm as apposed to the synthetic frame autos such as mellinium, glock etc. (but thats just a personal thing)

These two choices would probably leave enough $$$ for ammo, & acccessories for both.

[spot&stalk]

I agree with Abner, S&W 642.Very nice revolver.

[MassMark]

Smith and Wesson 642 in a Mika pocket holster loaded with Speer 135gr GDHP +P... Absolutely potent package that no one will know you have in your pocket....I have been carrying for 20-years and this is by far the most concealed, yet powerful package I've carried. I have carried larger guns with larger ammo, but never a combination as well-hidden and comfortable to carry as this...

[sdj]

Finding myself in a similar situation, I opted for the S&W 442, airweight. At 16oz empty (20-something loaded?) I have found a combination that I think will work: the airweight and an Uncle Mike's Sidekick Size 0 (10$ retail!). I have fired a bunch of the J-Frame airweights and the Scandium Alloy/Titanium J-Frames, too. No doubt about it: not nearly as much fun as a 40oz 1911 or K or N Frame. Price point on the 642/442 is pretty good. Folks give Taurus good reviews, for the most part, though I have no experience with them, yet. Good luck.

[orionengnr]

I'm going to weigh in on the side of the PM9.

I owned six different j-frames (steel, alloy, Scandium, exposed hammer, hammerless..) before I bought my) PM9. Care to guess how many j-frames I own now? Give you a hint: less than one. :)

The PM9 is not my idea of a fun range gun, although I can put 150 through it without pain (something I could not say for any of the j-frames).

How about a PM9 for carry and a Ruger MkII for range use? My MkII is my "always" range companion, and 22LR ammo is laughably cheap compared to anything short of a BB gun. Manual of arms is similar enough, and the price is right. Kahr PM9 (used) or CW9 (new)...$400-450. Ruger MkII (used) $200-300. Leaves a bit of room for ammo and a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster ($20) or a Mika (about the same).

Let us know what you decide.

[glockman19]

I have to agree...for the money you're looking to spend you can get a Golck 26 and a S&W j-frame 642/442. If you wear darker suits a 442 might be more practical for CCW with a Desaints, mika or other pocket holster.

[iiibdsiil]

I have the Kahr MK9, and it is less snippy then my buddy's Glock 19 or 17. My (ex) girlfriend and I were at the range with my MK9 and she was using his Glock. When she shot mine, she goes "I don't want that thing back", in regards to the Glock. I looked at her and go "I don't want to shoot it either." So we just took turns with mine.

I haven't shot a PM9 yet. But you might want to compare the weights on both IN PERSON before you make a decision. With a belt on, I don't even feel the MK9 in my pocket, and if it being steel is going to make it that much more enjoyable for shooting (weight wise), then it might be worth the extra couple oz's or whatever it weighs more.

[ArgosTCS]

Just so I am clear, iiibdsiil, the only difference between the PM9 and the MK9 is polymer v. steel, correct? Not that it matters too much, but I think you're right that I wouldn't have too much trouble carrying the steel. I'm 6'4'' and closing on three bills.

[iiibdsiil]

Sorry for not making that clear, but correct. The PM is the polymer version of the MK.

I read a few bad things about the PMs here on this forum, people not having good luck with them. They aren't a Glock, that's for sure. I don't recall the MKs having problems like that, and I haven't had any with mine.

I bought my MK though because it was for sale used when I had the money. I had my mind made up either way, and then the more I read, the more I was happy that I got the MK over the PM.

I'm 5' 8", 155 lbs, and like I said, with a belt, you don't even feel it.

[copaup]

Big fan of the 642 in a pocket holster here. Its what I carry most of the time when off duty, and as a BUG on duty. With good ammo (gold dot 135 gr, 158 gr LSWCHP, DPX) 38 +P will penetrate to the vitals and expand nicely without the blast, flash, and recoil of 357. I'd go with the significantly cheaper 642 over any of the 357 J frames. I've had the Scandium 357 (beyond a doubt the least pleasant gun I've ever shot), a steel 640, and a Ruger sp101, and the recoil was a bit too brisk for me to make rapid follow up shots with accuracy with magnum loads. Maybe I'm a wuss, but I like my magnums to be a bit heavier and with longer tubes.

Forgot to mention, I had a PM9 for a while. It seemed to like eating its own frame rails and had a nasty habit of coming slightly out of battery in the pocket and sticking that way until I bumped the slide closed with my thumb. Maybe it was a lemon, but I really missed the MK9 I had traded for it.

If it was my $850 and I wanted two pistols I'd go for the 642 and a Glock 19 (small enough to carry, big enough to be easy and fun to shoot).

[Jkwas]

The combination of a lightweight snub for pocket carry and a compact 9 for waist carry is hard to beat. I use a Taurus 605 (a bit heavy for pocket, but it's what I have), and a Taurus MilPro PT111. You can get the pair for about $700. If I had a do-over, I would get the M85UL instead of the 605, solely for the weight savings.
Good shooting!

[tegemu]

Kimber Ultra Carry II or Ultra RCP II in a Sam Andrews www.andrewsleather.com pocket holster.

[T. Bracker]

I too have recently obtained a CCW. I have been trying various methods of carry with different weopons. I have tried the pocket carry, but so far I am having a hard time getting used the the bulge/weight in my front pocket. I typically don't carry a lot of stuff in my pockets, especially the fronts. I am always amazed at the amount of stuff some guys have in their pockets every day, as evidenced by some of the photos posted here. The Kel-tec in the cargo pockets of cargo pants does work well, so far.

I have the PM9, and mine has been very reliable and accurate. Not really a range gun, to be sure but light and small. I have been using it with a Kydex paddle OWB holster, which so far has been the most comfortable. A rig like that would be easily hidden under a sports coat. I have found that some shirts work better for untucked concealment than others. Still trying to find the best combos.

I have a ankle holster for the Kel-tec but have not used it much yet.

I have a steel S&W Model 60 J-frame that I have used with a Kramer OWB holster, but there is no way I could pocket carry this gun, way too heavy.

[PX15]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_6766.jpg

Well...

Here's the deal. Buy yourself a Seecamp 32, and then buy yourself that "larger" firearm you think will be the better choice for pocket carry because it is a larger caliber, holds more rounds, etc.

If nothing else the LWS32 can be the "backup to your 1st choice....

Then later on you'll find yourself always cc the Seecamp and leaving the larger, heavier, harder to conceal firearm home a great percentage of the time.

I prefer my Walther P99c/AS for cc when possible, but truth be known I just can't hide that sweet Walther for cc many times.

It all falls back on the "have a gun" idea, and with a Seecamp you CAN always have a gun .... ;)

Just my opinion.

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

[Squidward]

What this boils down to is whether you are a revolver type of person or a semi auto type of person. I'm not a big fan of having two different types of handgun actions to learn; i.e. DA revolver and SA semi. I'd try to buy similar operating systems for both handguns.

My suggestion is go to a range and shoot the firearms that appeal to you then make a decision.

[Breakdaddy]

The Kahr PM9 is an excellent pocket-carry piece. Mine has been 100% reliable with 600+ rounds cycled through it.

[KINGMAX]

My choice for my pocket carry is a Tarus PT22. I have it loaded w/ CCI Stingers. Very LOUD, alot of fire at night.

[Wire]

Argos,

I'm the same size, also in TN, and pocket carry a PM9 in khakis. It conceals and shoots well. I heartily recommend it.

[jfh]

how many of you have tried shooting from within the pocket without drawing?

What happened? Did the slide operate and close?

Jim H.

[jkp1187]

I have an MK9 -- and use it in both pocket and OWB carry. It fits fine in the pocket, and it all but disappears under a t-shirt for OWB. Right now, it is my *only* handgun. I plan on getting a PM9 in the future just because it is lighter, I want to have a second gun, and I'd prefer to get one whose characteristics are similar to my first just so I don't have to learn a new gun.

Obviously, I don't see anything wrong with these as your ONLY handgun, and I certainly find the MK9 to be a fine range pistol, especially when using the extended magazine (with extended grip). I suggest you go out and handle one, just to see what you think.

FWIW, Kahr is coming out with a PM45 this summer -- you may want to check that out as well.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_45acp_pm.html

[leadcounsel]

I am also a lawyer and here were my solutions:

1) I carried a full size Glock 35 off body and secured it in my office
2) I then moved to a small sized XD and carried in a IWB tuckable holster
3) Then I moved to a much easier to carry .357 Ruger SP101 in a crossdraw IWB tuckable holster and life was great - very comfortable under most situations, esp driving.
4) I also sometimes carried the PT3AT in my pocket instead


You can get an excellent small frame revolver for $300 and a holster used for $25 if you bargain hunt. New all of it for under $500. Given your (and my) dress limitations, a .38 is sufficient for our needs and you can bump to the .357 which is obviously one of the most potent.

[ArgosTCS]

Well, I went to the gun show and put the cart before the horse: I paid $550 cash for a CPO P229 in .40 cal. I probably could have gotten it for a little less, but I liked the way it looked. However, it in no way satisfies the pocket carry end of my need. I'm now on the lookout for a used airweight J-frame.

[scubie02]

even +P 38's are pretty snappy in the lightweight j frames--you may want to try out a snubbie 357 if possible before you buy--many people buy them, then end up shooting 38's because the magnums are too much. I have both j frames and a new PM9, btw. I think the 642 fits more nicely in a front pocket--shape is less square, etc. The PM9 might actually recoil a bit less. Both nice guns.

[Breakdaddy]

I've fired a friend's 442 alongside the PM9, both with factory WWB loads. The PM9 recoils significantly less with these loads. I haven't fired +P through the .38spl but Cor Bon DPX 115gr +P (9mm, Kahr)has comparable recoil to the factory WWB loads. YMMV with various loads, etc. but this was the primary reason I bought my PM9 over the venerable 442. Having said that, the 442 is an excellent carry piece, if a bit larger than the PM9 (but, as stated, less boxy).

[Alphazulu6]

What are you able to wear and how big of a frame are you?

[Alphazulu6]

Your firearm depends on your life situation and what you can and cannot do. I have to dress in business suits very often so cannot carry a heavy or bulky weapon when out about town but in winter I can carry almost anything. So to match both types of carry I have found a Glock 23 and a Kel-Tec P3AT are a great way to go. I would never go into any smaller than a .380 (9mm short) as you need the ballistics past 200 ft lbs and 11" to be effective and a .380 is the smallest caliber to cut those standards.
The little Kel-Tec P3AT is 10 oz loaded w/ 7 shots and I was hitting 2" 5-shot groups at 15 yards with it! Of course it took much practice to get the reflex shooting up to standards but that should be the case if you carry any weapon. With a De Santis back holster and Don Hume front carry holster you can make this little powerhouse vanish in even the thinest worsted wool suit pants/jacket.
The only "concern" I would see with a .40 cal is that its penetration is over 20 inches and that could pose a problem in a CCW if you ever have to use it (you are responsible for that bullet even after it hits its target). Overall the Glock is a simple, easy, and guaranteed to shoot firearm.
For the past 3 years I have never had a problem with either and would recommend that line-up to anyone that is still employed and cannot wear the "I'm packing a 1911 vest" or a "Fanny Pack" which btw I would compare to a purse (just my personal opinion). At any rate just pick a firearm that you are accurate with. #1 rule is you are responsible for your shot groups. So get out and get that practice in! Be safe.

[kashton]

This is an option:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=284351

[The Lone Haranguer]

Originally posted by jfh:
so, for those of you who front-pocket carry with SAs,

how many of you have tried shooting from within the pocket without drawing?


I don't understand your question. Shooting from within your front pants pocket would only put a bullet into your thigh or kneecap. :eek: To bring the gun to bear on an attacker but still shoot from inside the pocket (and this would have to be done at contact distance), it would have to be carried in a coat (e.g., suit coat, winter jacket, trench coat) pocket. Also, to do actual live fire practice is going to eat up a lot of coats. ;) Personally, I don't put a lot of stock in being able to fire through a pocket.

That said, a concealed/enclosed hammer revolver should work fine for this. A shrouded or exposed hammer revolver may get bits of cloth trapped between the hammer and frame and tie up the mechanism. An autoloader will likely trap the case in the ejection port or snag or otherwise impede the slide from moving, turning it into a single-shot. (I have no citation for this, there not having been a lot of studies done on the subject.) There was a gun rag article a few years back about firing revolvers through a coat pocket. Interestingly, the discharge blew three holes in the pocket - one where the bullet exited, and one on either side of the barrel/cylinder gap.

To the OP: when I am just going out for a quick trip but still want to have decent armament, I'm very pleased with my Kahr PM9 in its Mika pocket holster.

[1BLINDREF]

Another vote for a S&W 642. I carry one dailly to work in an Apache ankle rig. Ankle holster is a great option. Although not as fast to draw, it doesn't print and you don't loose the use of your pocket. It is easy to access if you are seated at a desk or in a car. If I am the last one to leave the building or leaving after dark, I'll put my 642 in my pocket for the walk to my car. Wheel gun is a good first gun and the 642 is a great little shooter. At 15oz, you'll forget you are carrying it. You can get them new for around $350-$375. Save up a couple of more dollars and get a Sig P239. You can get a CPO (certified pre-owned) for about $500-$550. They are available in 9mm, .40S&W, and .357sig. They are very easily concealled in a IWB holster. You can carry it as a primary and your 642 as a BUG in an ankle rig. Works real nice for me :D

[jfh]

"...Shooting from within your front pants pocket would only put a bullet into your thigh or kneecap."

No, it doesn't have to, if that front pants pocket is big enough. Short of actually firing, I have tested that hypothesis with my 340 (j-frame) with certain pants I own. I can get my finger on the trigger and rotate the firearm enough to get off a true defensive shot without (ostensibly) hitting my thigh / knee / whatever.

I think I've even seen jeans advertised for CC that promote front pocket carry with their pocket design--but they were ungodly expensive, IIRC.

I also remember that article you cited about firing from a coat pocket--which is a possibly more likely scenario than a pants pocket. You're correct about the clothing issues for the shrouded (though I judge it unlikely) or SA use from the pocket--but it doesn't hold true for my 640 / 340 j-frames. Those hammers are completely concealed.

For me, for right now, that's why I've chosen a 340 to carry--it's even possible to fire from within a pocket and remain in the action without a disabled firearm. I used to carry various semi-autos, and I may even buy a Kahr for carry, but getting that first shot off under disadvantanged circumstances is important to consider.

Jim H.

[ArgosTCS]

Problem solved this morning. I bought a new 442 for just under $370. Now, all I have to do is procure a suitable pocket holster and self defense ammo, and I'll be set.

So, to recap, I initially wanted something to carry and shoot for fun, all in one package. This turned into thinking maybe two firearms would be the best way to go. Final solution: 442 and a P229 in .40 caliber (certified pre-owned). Total cost to me: $950. I'm pretty pleased with that.

[Byron]

I too live in TN and have a carry permit.I settled on The Beretta Tomcat. Byron

[obiwan1]

Argo:

I think you made good choices. Pocket holsters run in price from about $15 and up - heavy on the up. Take a look at the Mika, Uncle Mikes and DeSantis Nemesis. Each inexpensive and each work well. Also take a look at Active Pro Gear. Don Hume also makes a nice one at not much more cost. I used a Rybka pocket holster for years in conjunction with a PPK. Just about anything decently designed will work well regardless of price. You could drive yourself nuts doing a google search under "pocket holsters".

The SIG is reasonably easy to carry (ask sky marshals - they know) but that's another topic. Welcome to the club. ;)

[mavracer]

your doin' fine. I'm not a fan of the 40 but they work ok. ranger t series look to be solid performers and I've seen them for sale recently for a good price(sportsmansguide for~$15 per 50). Sigs are great guns, the wifes 226 is boring you stick 15 rounds in pull trigger 15 times and put 15 holes near center of target, Its a garbage disposal too any ammo.
good luck on the j. many people just never get rid of them I know my 442 is not for sale.

[Golddog]

After carrying a steel J frame comfortably in various pockets (with a pocket holster, to keep out dirt and dimes) for years, it dawned on me that I could never shoot any 2" J decently without warming up with a few cylindersful down range - a luxury that bad guys are not known to allow. If you think you want a J, grab one and shoot at something seven yards away without any practice. That may change your mind, as it did mine. Now I'm trying a Kahr CW9, which I can shoot OK without ten minutes of practice.

The CW9 is slimmer through the grip than the MK9 and lighter. While the extra half inch on the barrel and again on the grip frame make it larger in the pocket than the MK9, it's probably easier to shoot well because you get a full grip, and it's still smaller overall than a J.

[glassman]

When dressed casually (jeans/dockers) the 642 loaded with 135 gr jhp goes in the pocket. When in a suit, the beretta tomcat loaded with hydrashock jhp is with me. The revolver tends to print in a lightweight pair of trousers. Also found the kahr a bit big for pocket carry and a bit pricey as well but ymmv.

[Essex County]

J frames and pocket holsters go togeather like soup and sandwich. I've considered going the Kel Tec route as several friends have but I guess I'm too satisfied with the old Smith to change. Essex

[ravencon]

For pocket carry with light weight suit trousers my choice is the S&W 340 SC. Any of the Airlite models should do nicely.

I'm surprised you won't be carrying to the court house. Even here in gun unfriendly Massachusetts you can check your gun when you enter the courthouse (though it is a annoying and time consuming to do so).

[Noxx]

If you're working at a law firm, make sure you spend some of your budget on extra mags, I understand they're just rotten with muggers.