Need a reloading mentor in Northern Colorado


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<SLV>
June 24, 2007, 09:31 AM
I'm planning on getting into reloading handgun and rifle ammunition, and I would like to find someone in northern Colorado (Loveland, Longmont, Greeley, Fort Collins) to show me the ropes. I'd prefer someone who...

1. Has many years of experience
2. Has spare time and a flexible schedule (retired?)
3. Has used the Lee Classic Turret press

I'm planning on reloading .30-06 Springfield, 9mm Luger, 7.62x39 Russian, and 7.62x25 Tokarev.

Please drop me a private message if you are available to help me get set up and running.

Thanks!

SLV

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Wil Terry
June 24, 2007, 09:54 AM
......

<SLV>
June 24, 2007, 09:58 AM
Yep. That the idea behind mentoring. I mentor others all the time, and I don't charge for it. Some people enjoy sharing what they know without getting paid for it.

I'm not looking to hire someone. Just hoping to make a friend and learn from someone who has the time and desire to share what they know.

esheato
June 24, 2007, 10:31 AM
I applaud your high road answer SLV.

I'd be more than willing to share my knowledge on the subject except I used to live in CA and even worse, am currently working in Korea.

The payment in this equation is seeing another gunnie expand their firearms related hobbies and gain a substantial amount of knowledge in the process.

Ed

I forgot to add this earlier, but I would suggest picking up a few books and start reading on your own. Load manuals are a (Sierra, Speer, Nosler, etc..) great place to start. Most manuals have a few chapters that will explain the basics. When you find someone worthy of your time, speaking the same language from day one will save a lot of pain in the long run.

Best of luck.

<SLV>
June 24, 2007, 11:01 AM
Thanks, Ed. I think that is true of most enthusiasts regardless of the field. When you have become an expert at something it is rewarding to pass it on to an attentive student.

Otto
June 24, 2007, 11:07 AM
Yep. That the idea behind mentoring. I mentor others all the time, and I don't charge for it. Some people enjoy sharing what they know without getting paid for it.

No, if you look up the definition of mentor there is no reference to compensation.
Most mentors are counselors, teachers or advisers...many of which get paid.
I suggest reading 'The ABC's of Reloading' and if you still require handholding post back to this thread.

RustyFN
June 24, 2007, 11:49 AM
SLV, I agree with you. Everybody I know and myself would be happy to help a new reloader and not charge them no matter what the definition of mentor means. It is always a good thing to help someone get into the sport and make a friend along the way. Good luck, I hope you find somebody close by to reload with.
Rusty

rdhood
June 24, 2007, 12:04 PM
I suggest reading 'The ABC's of Reloading' and if you still require handholding post back to this thread.

Yep. It's not rocket science. I just takes paying attention to what you are doing. I suspect regulars at a shooting club or a range will reload or know someone who does, so you might ask around at your local gunshop or range.

dcloco
June 24, 2007, 12:27 PM
I am close....you would have to travel to North Platte, Nebraska.

Might be able to sneak a prairie dog hunt in as well.

ReloaderFred
June 24, 2007, 12:55 PM
Move to Oregon and I'll be more than willing to teach you! Knowledge gained through experience has no price, as far as I'm concerned. It's greatest value is in passing it along to someone else who is willing to learn.

I've taught quite a few people to reload, or helped them with problems they've run into while learning to reload. It's very rewarding, for both of us.

Fred

<SLV>
June 24, 2007, 02:13 PM
Otto, I was just trying to follow the advice I received on this site. I've also heard others say that it is wise to learn from someone who is experienced. Notice that I didn't begin this thread by asking IF anyone thought I needed a mentor, so perhaps you should start your own thread to oppose the idea of mentoring in reloading, because you are off-topic.

CZ57
June 24, 2007, 02:24 PM
SLV: Another possibility which will help along with a very good manual like Lyman's, and several others of course, would be a good video. Not quite a mentor, but possibly the best alternative in absence of one in your area. You can replay segments on topics that may appear more challenging. Then you have guys here that are willing to mentor, just not as visually!;)

capbuster
June 24, 2007, 02:32 PM
You might check with the nra. They have instuctors listed for some states. Its worth a look. read as much as you can on the subject.when I started back in 1970, my cousin helped me set up my used lyman rig. He had no reloading experience but was mechanically inclined. I have helped a few fellows get started in reloading and it sure helps for someone to walk you through. I considered it a privilege to help someone get started with loading your own. Reloaders are a good bunch and we will certainly help out.

<SLV>
June 24, 2007, 06:01 PM
I finished reading the Lyman's guide today. Lots of good information, but I felt that they assumed a little too much on a few regards:

1. They talk about the primer "anvil" side, but they don't explain which side that is!

2. They talk about bullet "jump" being ideal at 0.010-0.030, but they aren't very good at explaining how to get a starting measurement. I'm assuming you don't use the Lyman's OAL measurement and subtract, because that would mean that the bullet is resting against the barrel when chambered.

3. Pictures are dark and non-descript - they should use arrows to identify significant things.

4. They don't say a WORD about loading for 2nd ammendment purposes - just hunting. Likewise their bullet choices are bland... need to find out the neat alternatives (like tactical bonded 9mm HP).

Still wouldn't mind meeting an experienced reloader in the Fort Collins, Greeley, Loveland, Longmont areas. I'm planning a trip to Sportsman's Warehouse in Loveland this week to pick up my equipment... would be nice to have a little help and guidance!

I'm planning on getting the Lee Classic Turret. It seems to have a few drawbacks, but nothing I won't be able to work around.

ReloaderFred
June 24, 2007, 06:12 PM
The primer consists of a cup, compound and anvil. When you look at a primer, the cup is the exterior container. The anvil is the piece of metal inside the cup, which can be either two legged or three legged in most cases. The compound is what's between the anvil and the cup, and when crushed between the two, it explodes. Yes, explodes. Powder burns, but primers explode.

When they refer to the anvil side of the primer, they mean the open end.

Bullet jump is the space between the where the bullet rests before firing and the point at which it contacts the throat where it constricts and guides the bullet into the rifling. Some firearms have a long throat, or "leade", and some have a short throat. There are various ways to measure this distance pretty simply. It can be made with homemade tools. When you get your loading gear, remind me and I'll tell you how to do it. Or someone else can.

I can't help you with the pictures.

They don't talk about 2nd Amendment issues because it's a loading manual. They also don't talk about self defense issues due to liability and lawyers.

Hope this helps.

Fred

<SLV>
June 24, 2007, 06:19 PM
Thanks for the info. When I said "2nd Ammendment" I was refering more to loading for self-defense rather than the legal issue itself. All of their bullet talk is about shooting 4-legged animals rather than 2. I would have like to have seen something about self-defense bullet selection.

<SLV>
June 25, 2007, 06:04 PM
I'm having some second thoughts on reloading. I'm not sure it's for me. Not that I wouldn't enjoy making handloads and reusing brass. It's just that I've done the math and I don't see much cost savings in my calibers. I went to Sportsman's Warehouse today, and by the time I added up the cost of components I realized that in some cases it was more expensive than the mil-surp ammo I'm buying!

I know a lot of people like to reload so they can punch paper in singular ragged holes, but for me it was just interesting as a way to save money.

RustyFN
June 25, 2007, 08:11 PM
Wow if you can buy ammo that cheap that's great. I haven't been shooting or reloading as long as most people here but I have never seen 9mm for $70 per 1,000 or 223 for $100 per 1,000. That's what I can reload them for.
Rusty

<SLV>
June 25, 2007, 09:46 PM
Well, here is what I can buy it for:

7.62x39 - $165/case of 1,000
7.62x25 - $8/box of 72
9mm - $240/case of 1,000 (... I think)
.30-06 - $14/box of 20

The volumes I will shoot the most will be 7.62x39 and 9mm. Here is what I come up with for component costs (from Midway):

7.62x39
Cases (1,000) - $260 (Winchester... questionable quality)
Powder (5 pounds) - $90 (H335)
Bullets (1,000) - $110 (Hornady 123 FMJ)
Primers (1,000) - $23 (WLR)

So, here you see it would cost me $483 in parts to build 1,000 7.62x39 when I could buy a 1,000 round case of steel case mil-surp for $165. I know that I could pay a premium and get brass case 7.62x39 then reload, but it would still cost me $223 just to RELOAD the brass!

The 9mm makes more sense (especially since I can reload factory brass), but I'm still not sure it is justified.

9mm
Cases (1,000) - $115 (Remington)
Powder (1 pound) - $15 (Power Pistol)
Bullets (1,000) - $86 (Remington Golden Saber 124)
Primers (1,000) - $22 (CCI 500 Small Pistol)

So, to make 1,000 9mm rounds it will cost me $238 - basically the same as buying factory ammo. Now, if I reload 1,000 rounds it will only cost @ $125 / 1,000 rounds. This is the ONLY way that reloading might make sense for me. I also like the fact that 9mm can be resized in a carbide die without the tedious application and removal of lubricant.

However, if I save $115/1,000 rounds of 9mm I reload with factory brass, then I would need to reload AT LEAST 3,000 rounds to "break even" with the cost of equipment. I will probably go through about 500 rounds / year, so we are looking at 6 years to recoup original investment! (That is assuming that bullet prices don't increase... not likely.)

So that is my delimma. Can I really justify the investment in reloading for what I need to do. It occured to me last night that one of the reasons I chose the calibers that I shoot was precisely due to the price and availability of the ammo.

ReloaderFred
June 25, 2007, 10:32 PM
Reloading isn't for everybody. I do it because I enjoy it. Sometimes I find myself shooting up some old ammo just so I can reload the brass and make it better the next time. If it's not your "thing", then you're probably better off not jumping into it. I never got started into reloading because I thought it was cheaper. I got into it because I wanted to make better ammunition, and I've been doing that for about 44 years now, and intend to do it for quite a few more, if possible.

Hope this helps.

Fred

scout26
June 25, 2007, 10:46 PM
Check out:

http://www.reload-nrma.com/NRAinstruc.html

Click on the first digit of your zip code for a list of NRA certified instructors in your area. I saw two in Longmont and one in Fort Collins.

Brainstem
June 26, 2007, 12:00 AM
9mm cases 1x fired (BHHS) $31.00 per M
9mm 124 ball (rainier re-strike) $24.20 per 500 (BHSS)
Winchester WSP primers $19.00 per M (Powder Valley)
Hodgdon HS6 1lb $14.25 (BHSS)

1k 9mm rounds costs me less than $120.00 and two hours of my time on a 550.

<SLV>
June 26, 2007, 08:08 AM
Lymans says NEVER use once fired (unless you fired the factory ammo) because you don't know the condition of the chamber in which it was fired. Also, FMJ is fine for target shooting, but it doesn't serve my self-defense purpose. I don't want to target shoot unless I'm shooting the ammo I will need to depend on in a tense situation. So, for my purposes reloading might not be best.

the pistolero
June 26, 2007, 09:52 AM
Depending on who you ask, reloading is a good way to save money, or shoot more for what you spend. As for me, I got into it to save money, but I am not sure how long it's going to take me to recoup what I spent on the equipment. But it doesn't matter now, though, because, for more reasons than I'd feel comfortable relating here, reloading gives me a sense of pride and accomplishment that I can do something like that. And that's something money can't buy, so even if I broke even I'd probably still load my own.

Otto
June 26, 2007, 09:58 AM
Well, here is what I can buy it for:
7.62x39 - $165/case of 1,000
7.62x25 - $8/box of 729mm - $240/case of 1,000 (... I think)
.30-06 - $14/box of 20
The volumes I will shoot the most will be 7.62x39 and 9mm. Here is what I come up with for component costs (from Midway):
7.62x39
Cases (1,000) - $260 (Winchester... questionable quality)
Powder (5 pounds) - $90 (H335)
Bullets (1,000) - $110 (Hornady 123 FMJ)
Primers (1,000) - $23 (WLR)
So, here you see it would cost me $483 in parts to build 1,000 7.62x39 when I could buy a 1,000 round case of steel case mil-surp for $165. I know that I could pay a premium and get brass case 7.62x39 then reload, but it would still cost me $223 just to RELOAD the brass!
The 9mm makes more sense (especially since I can reload factory brass), but I'm still not sure it is justified.
9mm
Cases (1,000) - $115 (Remington)
Powder (1 pound) - $15 (Power Pistol)
Bullets (1,000) - $86 (Remington Golden Saber 124)
Primers (1,000) - $22 (CCI 500 Small Pistol)
So, to make 1,000 9mm rounds it will cost me $238 - basically the same as buying factory ammo. Now, if I reload 1,000 rounds it will only cost @ $125 / 1,000 rounds. This is the ONLY way that reloading might make sense for me. I also like the fact that 9mm can be resized in a carbide die without the tedious application and removal of lubricant.
However, if I save $115/1,000 rounds of 9mm I reload with factory brass, then I would need to reload AT LEAST 3,000 rounds to "break even" with the cost of equipment. I will probably go through about 500 rounds / year, so we are looking at 6 years to recoup original investment! (That is assuming that bullet prices don't increase... not likely.)


Forget about mentors...you need a CPA.
And I agree with Fred, "reloading isn't for everyone"

RustyFN
June 26, 2007, 11:30 AM
SLV, I agree reloading isn't for everybody. I think you would have to enjoy it or it wouldn't be worth it. Brass is free, I pick it up at the range. I can buy Titegroup for $11 a pound, primers for $16.99 per K and plated bullets for around $50 per K. That lets me load 9mm for around $73 per thousand. If I shoot lead it would be even less.
Rusty

Kevin_G
July 10, 2007, 07:16 PM
SLV, I really enjoy reloading...almost as much as shooting. So if you think of it that way, and not worry about saving money ('cause you won't...you'll just shoot more), you may just be taking up another very enjoyable hobby. I started with "The ABCs of reloading" and then to this site (good pictures):

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/index.asp

After reading that ariticle (reloading primer), you can click on the "reloading" tab at the top of the page for more...good stuff.

Also get a couple (or three) reloading manuals.

Finally, I'd be happy to mentor you (for free!!!), but you'd need to drive down to Colorado Springs.
Kevin

murph50
July 10, 2007, 09:28 PM
Slv
You may want to check with Sportsmans Warehouse. I'm down here in Aurora and the SW here has a free reloading class about once a month. That's what I did. The class took 2 nights--about 6 hours of time and it really helped me to get started. The class basically covered the basics and we made up some dummy loads and I learned about the equipement needed and how to use it. I have been reloading now for about 2 years so I'm still learning alot. I save my brass and pu more each time I go to the range and it has been going real well. I rarely need to shoot factory ammo anymore.
If your down this way--feel free to PM me--I'll help you if I can. I'm not an old pro--just old--still learning but every round I've ever loaded has worked

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