Are there any civilian AR uppers with a gas piston instead of direct impingement?


PDA






Outlaws
June 24, 2007, 05:57 PM
I just held a Sig556 and though it was kind of neat. I know HK makes the 416 that is a gas piston, but I don't care for them, plus they won't/can't sell it. Got me wondering if any other companies make gas piston uppers for an AR, and if so, a reliable/durable one.

If you enjoyed reading about "Are there any civilian AR uppers with a gas piston instead of direct impingement?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
dm1333
June 24, 2007, 05:59 PM
Bushmaster makes one.

Outlaws
June 24, 2007, 06:03 PM
Is it a good one?

Guns R Tools
June 24, 2007, 06:05 PM
POF makes one.

http://www.pof-usa.com/P-416/P-416%20PLASTIC%20UPPER.htm

HorseSoldier
June 24, 2007, 06:11 PM
Besides Bushmaster and POF, Land Warfare Rifles (formerly Leitner-Wise) makes a gas piston upper/rifle.

Lewis Machine and Tool is supposedly working on a drop in gas piston system for the Monolithic Rail Platform variant of the AR.

No idea personally on the quality of any of the above (though I expect that if LMT releases theirs for public sales it will be as solid as the rest of their products). Seems like on here and other forums people have expressed some reservations about durability of the POF weapons, but, again, that's not from personal experience.

Outlaws
June 24, 2007, 06:12 PM
That POF site offers a gas piston lower. Will gas piston uppers not work with standard AR lowers?

Frog48
June 24, 2007, 06:30 PM
I dont think the Bushmaster version has been released to the public yet, still in R&D.

charlesb_la
June 24, 2007, 06:39 PM
The Bushmaster upper and DSA's upper are the same as POF uppers, I'm unsure if it is licensed or POF actually makes them for the other companies . They will all work on a standard AR15 lower.

You can also get an ARES conversion kit

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=124&t=310274

Nomad, 2nd
June 24, 2007, 07:34 PM
POF uppers = POS.

HorseSoldier
June 24, 2007, 07:36 PM
That POF site offers a gas piston lower. Will gas piston uppers not work with standard AR lowers?

I don't think there is any issue with a gas piston AR upper on a standard lower. It certainly is not an issue with the .mil HK 416 uppers I've handled.

dfloomis
June 24, 2007, 07:50 PM
Land Warfare (LWRC) makes a very good gas piston upper. Larry Vickers claims it is the best next to the HK 416.

Don't Tread On Me
June 24, 2007, 08:11 PM
ZM weapons.

Supposedly it is a very good system and they make very good rifle uppers. Pricy though.



http://www.zmweapons.com/conversion_kits.htm

Quintin Likely
June 24, 2007, 08:41 PM
I saw a Bushmaster gas piston upper on the rack at my local dealer today. They're out there.

blackhawk2000
June 24, 2007, 10:11 PM
Do a search. Quite a few of them are reported to be junk.

Click Click Boom
June 25, 2007, 12:25 AM
If you want a gas piston semi auto rifle in .223 go with a XCR or Sig Arms 556.

speedball
June 25, 2007, 01:11 AM
A few out there and more coming. I have an ARES conversion, LWRC, and two POF's. I like the LWRC the best. I have had no problems with the POF's although the added height of the rail system they use puts the sights a little high for me. The ARES has worked 100% with M193 but will not cycle with Wolf or other 223 loads. They are supposedly coming out with an update that will correct this problem and some reliability problems some have had. Plus all are a breeze to clean. Enjoy.

everallm
June 25, 2007, 10:09 PM
Outlaws,

If you want to go for a piston as opposed to direct impingement system, I would also support the "Click Click Boom" response.

Go for a weapon where the piston model has been built in from the design stage, not as an after market bolt on. My recommendation is also the XCR.

Caveat

I cut my teeth on L1A1 FN-FAL and now own an XCR and may well be a little prejudiced....:evil:

Having said that, IMHO the whole pissing match about the AR platform and DI vs Piston model is simplistic by far.

OK, as my mommy taught me, don't ***** where you eat...(Mommy scared my CSM....:D)

As such the DI system will ALWAYS dump high temp carbon and fouling in the chamber area, 'cause that's what it does. It means more cleaning but does not necessarily lead to more FTE/FTF on it's own.

The real issues I feel come down to the daisy head bolt and the extraction mechanisms.

Of the cycle steps, strip round, chamber round, fire round, extract case, eject case, return to battery, the bolt design and the extract/eject mechanisms of AR15/M16 type are more prone to fail or cause "***" moments.

The daisy head provides you with a lot more and a lot smaller and inherently vulnerable points that take a serious pounding, such as pressure, heat etc.

The ejector in the AR-15/M-16 platform also leaves something to desire. It's gotten a lot better but really should have stayed with the K.I.S.S principle

The XCR has moved completely away to more of a 3 lug AK type of bolt and a modified Sako extractor. These are both inherently more rugged and reliable and in conjunction with the piston makes a very stable platform.

I will say at this point that I actually like and have used on he ground the M-16 platform with DI and within it's constraints is a damn fine platform but be aware of it's limitations.

The Robinson Arms XCR is a more expensive platform at first glance that an AR-15, but when take a bog standard 15 and you add a POF piston, monolithic rail system etc the price differential evens out.

Also the XCR is built form the ground up to provide 3 minute or less swap between different calibre's.

Disclaimer "I have no financial interest in Robinson Arms, just love the platform....just need to see it in 6.5 Grendel....;) )

If you enjoyed reading about "Are there any civilian AR uppers with a gas piston instead of direct impingement?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!