Interesting story. Bad decisions and bad luck crash headon.


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jsalcedo
June 26, 2003, 10:11 AM
A childhood friend of mine worked for a GPS car tracking company.

His father being a senior VP got him the job as fathers do from time to time.

My friend had moved into his own place but his step brothers were still at home raising hell. The father finds a .25 auto in one of the kids (17) room. He berates the kid (punk troublemaker runs with bad crowd) and locks the little pistol in the center console of his corvette.

My friend is in charge of testing new GPS tracking units and installs one into dads corvette and takes it for a test drive
so the base station can monitor and talk to him on the hands free carphone.

He gets pulled over for having no front license plate (texas state law) although corvettes have no place to put a front plate the cops need revenue. Turns out my friend has an unpaid traffic ticket which has turned into a warrant. (stupid stupid stupid)


The cop was about to let him go with a stern warning to go pay the ticket but since there was a warrant he decided to search the car. He finds the loaded .25 All this time my friends co-workers
are listening to the whole thing on the cars phone.

My friend did not know there was a gun in the car.

Guess what? The gun is stolen..

You know what else? The gun was stolen from a cop.

My friend is in jail, his dad comes by and pays the ticket.

The DA decides to let the gun charge stay "at large" to give my friend a break in the chance that the prosecutor will let it go.

9 months go by with no word.

My friend goes to renew his drivers license and is arrested my DPS
on the spot in the license office.

He is jailed for the felony stolen gun charge.

He gets a lawyer and finds out the prosecutor is going full bore on the gun charge.

There were sworn affidavits that car was not his and a letter from the step brother saying he was the one who bought the stolen gun.

My friends lawyer advises him to take a plea, 400 hours community service a $1500 fine and deferred adjudication.

Not wanting to go to trial and possibly go to prison he took the deal.

I guess there is a moral to this story. Pay your tickets, don't assume there are no guns or contraband in a borrowed car and
keep a good lawyer on retainer.

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foghornl
June 26, 2003, 10:21 AM
Sheeeeshhhhh

Some days it just doesn't pay to get up, does it? ? ? ?

Sorry for all the hassles for your friend. hope he beats it all, and then helps win non-relection for that sheep-dip PA.

Kharn
June 26, 2003, 10:29 AM
He berates the kid (punk troublemaker runs with bad crowd) and locks the little pistol in the center console of his corvette.
:banghead: :banghead: He didnt have an office safe to lock it up in?

Also, I thought Corvettes had a panel on the front end (with the word 'Corvette' printed on it, right below the Corvette logo and between the fog lights) that could be removed to allow installation of the license plate. Or, there's the old stand-by of putting the plate on the front dash near the windshield, thats what people use in MD if they keep hitting so many curbs they destroy the mounting brackets on their bumper.

Kharn

Kharn
June 26, 2003, 03:24 PM
Follow-up:
Yeap, that little 'Corvette' panel pops off to reveal a spot to put the license plate. There's at least three 'Vettes parked in our lot (fighter jocks and their candy-apple red or Marine Green sports cars :rolleyes: ).

Kharn

jsalcedo
June 26, 2003, 03:46 PM
Yeah the dad could have put a license plate holder on his corvette
he could have also not put the .25 in the console.

The dad shares blame for his sons arrest for sure.

dragonesse91
June 27, 2003, 01:18 PM
How about being a bit "paranoid" and thoroughly checking out a borrowed car for things unlawful? Paying tickets and not letting them convert to warrants is also wise. I feel bad for him, but, you must learn to manage your life! Plus, Dad is foolish for only confiscating weapon and putting it in his car. Call the police, have them come by and get it and let punk be prosecuted for his actions! That was somebody's property that was stolen and no telling if it had already been used in a crime, let's help the police do their job!BTW-some over-grown men decided to have some fun with me on the freeway. I called the police on my cell-phone, we were transferred through 3 jurisdictions as we traveled on the freeway. The police snagged them for warrants! They got to sit in jail for jacking with what they thought was a bit of harmless fun perpetrated on a woman minding her own business. Now, I am armed. But, when it happened, I wasn't, but a car phone and their own arrogance and stupidity did them in. Not taking care of warrants, was a part of their redneck life strategy, as was hassling the supposedly helpless or inferior. This is not to say your friend is dumb-but, just how important it is to be responsible. D91

Keith
June 27, 2003, 02:11 PM
Where does the cop get "probably cause" to search a car for an unpaid traffic ticket?

Keith

dragonesse91
June 27, 2003, 02:38 PM
Hi Keith: No probable cause was involved-the guys were speeding, had violations and my complaint against them. The cops in league City were only too happy to take them in after they pulled them over. (The jurisdictions we traveled through were: Houston, Webster, League City on that part of the Freeway.) Checking their I.D. and comparing it with police database info.-resulted in warrants being found and arrests being made. It was a Sgt. who called me at home to let me know-I was very surprised, and pleased they were taken in. If they hadn't thought to torment someone they thought couldn't fight back-the cretins might have been able to outlast the expirations on their warrants. I look at it this way-I stood up for the others out there who would have cowered in fear. I hope I clarified the situation for the discussion. D91

jsalcedo
June 27, 2003, 02:38 PM
Yeah dad and son both made dumb decisions hence the thread title.

They are both intellectual geniuses but common sense morons.

jsalcedo
June 27, 2003, 02:39 PM
Keith, the probable cause for searching my friends car came from the warrant for the unpaid ticket.

dragonesse91
June 27, 2003, 03:06 PM
Hi J:

We all have our gifts!: :) D91

Keith
June 27, 2003, 03:51 PM
An unpaid ticket is probable cause for searching a car? Did the unpaid ticket suggest that there were guns in the car? How so?

I'm sure some fascist in a black robe has ruled that "anything at all" is clear probable cause to suspend the 4th amendment and do a car and body cavity search... I'm not arguing the technical legality, just the bigger philosophical picture.

If an unpaid traffic ticket is clear "probable cause" to search your car, then a loose dog in your yard (or unmowed grass in violation of city ordinance #1276B-876) should be probable cause to search your home.

If the cop smelled marijuana, or booze on the drivers breath, then he would (in my view) have probable cause to search for drugs or booze.

If the warrant was about shoplifting, one might even "stretch it" to search for stolen goods...

But what crime does a traffic ticket suggest and what might be revealed about that "crime" by a search?

Keith

dragonesse91
June 27, 2003, 04:25 PM
Hi keith-I'm finished for the day. Actually, I'm rusty on probable cause, sorry, but, because the vehicle was reported as having occupants actively engaged in breach of the peace/disorderly conduct, the law had the right to "hook them up and tow them in." Sorry if you are somehow offended by that, truly. I am just glad they got hauled up by their breeches, frankly. Best Wishes, D91

Mostly Harmless
June 27, 2003, 04:33 PM
dragonesse91 -- I think you're replying to the wrong question. My reading of the thread has Keith's question directed to the original stop -- the guy who got caught with the gun in the borrowed car.

It seems to me that Keith was asking what is there about an unpaid traffic ticket that gives the cops "probable cause" to search the vehicle and driver/occupants.

Sounds to me like a fishing expedition.

As for your experience -- good on you for getting those neanderthals stopped.

dragonesse91
June 27, 2003, 04:41 PM
Hi Harmless-I thought so after posting, the first time, but his stuff keeps coming as emil notifications to me for replies. I wouldn't offend him for the world-so I just kept "splaining the situation." D91

Edward429451
June 27, 2003, 04:50 PM
Dad is foolish for only confiscating weapon and putting it in his car. Call the police, have them come by and get it and let punk be prosecuted for his actions!

But Dad didn't know it was stolen at that point. Are you saying if we find a gun or some other 'scary' thing in our kids room, we should call the po-po on them?:rolleyes: Thats absurd. How in the world can calling the po po on your own kids help them even the least little bit?

I let my kids keep loaded guns in their room, but then again, I'm not from this planet and my kids are reasonable people.:neener:

EJ
June 27, 2003, 05:02 PM
KEITH--

An unpaid ticket is probable cause for searching a car? Did the unpaid ticket suggest that there were guns in the car? How so?

The PC comes for the fact that the warrant makes it---

"A custodial arrest"

Anytime a person is taken into physical custody == regardless of the base charge -- the officer has a right and possibly a departmental policy obligation to search the car -- this was also spawned from suits from arrestees claiming lost property when they were arrested and removed from the vicinity of thier cars due to custodial charges--

Belton v NY and Ross v US

It's not that much of a philosophical point as it ONLY APPLIES TO CUSTODIAL arrests--

Judges are real obnoxious about warrants-- a power thing -- Hence a lot of problems when you don't show up for court---:rolleyes:

Keith
June 27, 2003, 06:22 PM
There was no arrest, in fact the cop had already stated he was going to let the guy go with a warning.
In any case, I fail to see how an arrest on one charge can lead to a warrantless search to fish up other charges. Or at least I fail to see how that squares with the Bill of Rights.

Again, I ask how the search related to the charge - obviously, there is no connection between the two.

If this is logical and proper, then any arrest or citation is carte blanche permission to tear your entire car, home and life apart on a fishing expedition for other possible "crimes".

EJ
June 27, 2003, 06:27 PM
Keith

If this is logical and proper, then any arrest or citation is carte blanche permission to tear your entire car, home and life apart on a fishing expedition for other possible "crimes".


Just the car --primarily anyway--

Because the car can move easily and rapidly between jurisdictions -- the USSC has consistantly broadened search and seizure exceptions as to vehicle searches--

Prob will continue--

Matt G
June 27, 2003, 07:54 PM
Dunno that the po-po didn't get consent for the search.

Most 'Vettes have a spot on the front for mounting a L.P.-- have to remove the panel and use a special bracket.

There's more to this. No attorney would advise their client to plea for a case like this, when there's plenty of excupatory evidence. Read the Texas Penal Code for Theft(31.03) (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0003100.html#pe003.31.03), which includes Theft Of A Firearm. Note: the level of intent for this crime: "the property is stolen and the actor appropriates the property knowing it was stolen by another".

Also, it was stated that The DA decides to let the gun charge stay "at large" to give my friend a break in the chance that the prosecutor will let it go.
9 months go by with no word.
My friend goes to renew his drivers license and is arrested my DPS on the spot in the license office.The DA is the prosecutor. If he was on notice that the charge was being filed on "at large," then he knew a warrant was in fact going to be filed at a later time for his arrest. No great surprise that he was arrested at the DPS, then. Warrants filed "at large" are generally for charges not immediately a breech of the peace, like Driving While License Suspended, or Theft, after the fact. Being filed on "at large" doesn't mean that the charge is mitigated or anything; it simply means that he didn't go to jail for that charge prior to the Probable Cause Affidavit being submitted to a judge or magistrate, seeking a warrant for the arrest of the offender. When said warrant is issued and filed At Large, the warrant is typically entered into the TCIC/NCIC system through TLETS. When the guy is run, as he was by the DPS, and an officer is notified that there's an active felony warrant against him, the officer has no choice (the magistrate's verbage in the warrant says "shall", not "may") but to take the suspect into custody.

Me, I'd have asked the DA if it could have been referred to Grand Jury prior to filing. If all was as your buddy says, it might have been No Billed. If all was as your buddy says, I think he would have gotten off in a jury trial.

dragonesse91
June 27, 2003, 11:27 PM
Accidentally sent message privately-not familiar with how these threads work. Same message as before though. The Dad knows he's "punkish" why does he have the gun-if Dad doesn't okay something, Junior should not have it, period. Parental oversight and liability are joined issues when dealing with children. I understand you think my position is absurd, fine with me, my kids aren't giving me any grief. I am a tough Mom and they understand that. I think it's okay to differ with me on child-rearing methods and leniency, that's your prerogative. Just remember I have a right to my own opinion as well. Thanks, D91

jsalcedo
June 27, 2003, 11:43 PM
Dad found out the 17 year old STEP son had a gun and took it away
and locked it in his corvette.

Punk 17 year olds have a way of hooking up with other bad 17 year olds and doing stupid stuff like stealing guns.

EJ
June 28, 2003, 01:14 AM
"LOCKING IT IN THE CORVETTE'

is // was the problem--

not the place to lock up a loaded firearm--

Edward429451
June 28, 2003, 01:37 AM
Parental oversight and liability are joined issues when dealing with children. I understand you think my position is absurd, fine with me, my kids aren't giving me any grief. I am a tough Mom and they understand that.

I believe in tough love but in my wildest dreams I couldn't consider calling the police on my kids. I know that there's a lot of really wacked out kids out there nowadays, and the situation may differ in their homes. I thank the Lord my kids are'nt like that.

It sounds terrible to hear people talk like that. Family is Family. Family is Fortress. Family is helping them hide the bodies. OK, too far with the last one, but you get my drift.:D :D

"Though one may be overpowered by another, two can withstand him. And a threefold cord is not quickly broken." (Ecclesiastes 4:12)

Family ties, no offense.

TexasVet
June 28, 2003, 03:17 AM
My friends lawyer advises him to take a plea, 400 hours community service a $1500 fine and deferred adjudication.

Your friends lawyer is an incompetant idiot if he advised pleading out on this set of circumstances in Texas! Where was this, in Austin or Plano, for gosh sake?:banghead: I can't believe you could get a Texas grand jury to indict or a jury to convict for this, except in those two liberal pits.

jsalcedo
June 28, 2003, 04:27 AM
The lawyer convinced him he couldn't win and it only cost him $4k for that representation.

This happened in San Antonio. Supposedly he was up against a frothing antigun DA that made his case a pet project.

I personally did not think he should taken the plea but he did not consult me.

dragonesse91
June 28, 2003, 10:33 AM
Edward, what you will do and I will do are two different things.
I do not like Lawbreakers-kin or not. I am a kick-*** moral person.
I understand other peoples rights and feelings-as I have said.
It's time for you to stop beating the dead horse, okay?
I have definitely told my kids that if they did "X"-I would not Bail them or Visit Them In Jail! I wasn't lying!
I had to be Mom alone for many years-while Dad blew them off. So, I brought them up to understand that my moral code is Black and White, with zero tolerance.
And yes, some brave parents do turn Junior in when he is a louse and going down hill fast.
I realize that most people will take the low road and cover for their children, make excuses, etc., that is the normative thing parents do, it doesn't make it right with God or society though. For non-serious matters, I understand, but for serious matters, NO!
Do not be a party to anyone's crime, I don't give a fig who it is. Responsibility rests with the perpertrator, whether or not He/She is your kin.
Dad did not do Jr any favors in not making him accountable for theft!
He will continue and escalate his criminality, most likely.

bigjim
June 28, 2003, 12:34 PM
Dragoness91 shrieked: Edward, what you will do and I will do are two different things.
I do not like Lawbreakers-kin or not. I am a kick-*** moral person.
I understand other peoples rights and feelings-as I have said.
It's time for you to stop beating the dead horse, okay?
I have definitely told my kids that if they did "X"-I would not Bail them or Visit Them In Jail! I wasn't lying!
I had to be Mom alone for many years-while Dad blew them off. So, I brought them up to understand that my moral code is Black and White, with zero tolerance.
And yes, some brave parents do turn Junior in when he is a louse and going down hill fast.
I realize that most people will take the low road and cover for their children, make excuses, etc., that is the normative thing parents do, it doesn't make it right with God or society though. For non-serious matters, I understand, but for serious matters, NO!
Do not be a party to anyone's crime, I don't give a fig who it is. Responsibility rests with the perpertrator, whether or not He/She is your kin.
Dad did not do Jr any favors in not making him accountable for theft!
He will continue and escalate his criminality, most likely.


Hi Dr Laura! Well come to the forum.

Edward429451
June 28, 2003, 01:18 PM
It's time for you to stop beating the dead horse, okay?

Uh, just stating my position. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as you are yours aren't I? Thats what these forums are about. Dialogue. If you dont like what you read, dont respond. If something said makes you feel uncomfortable, explore the possibilities un-emotionally and possibly grow a little. Seemingly stern comments and reasonable logic has swayed my thinking here & there. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, just tossing out another way of looking at it.


And yes, some brave parents do turn Junior in when he is a louse and going down hill fast

Thats cool for them. My kids aren't lice (louses?) and are on the up swing in life. Is it OK with you if I cultivate family loyalty instead of turning on them for every little thing?

I realize that most people will take the low road and cover for their children, make excuses, etc., that is the normative thing parents do, it doesn't make it right with God or society though.

Pardon my "confusion" here, but isn't cultivation of family loyalty, the high road? The "Normative" thing most parents seem to do is to cultivate the 'Us vs Them' attitude so prevalent in your posts.



Do not be a party to anyone's crime, I don't give a fig who it is. Responsibility rests with the perpertrator, whether or not He/She is your kin.

Umm, Dr Laura, That was a joke. My stab at interjecting a little subtle humor into my post seems to have been lost on you. Here at THR, when we joke, the grinning smiley is added to make it obvious that it was a joke. We're not over here burying bodies in the back yard. Sheesh.

Destruction of the family unit mindset is a deception to be avoided at all costs, even by expanding ones mind with "new" concepts.

dragonesse91
June 28, 2003, 03:15 PM
The horse has succumbed, again. No revival effort offered. Dr. Laura's medical opinion is final.

dragonesse91
June 28, 2003, 03:18 PM
Bigjim-You are unbelievable-Shriek!

dragonesse91
June 28, 2003, 03:28 PM
Wish all the nice ones goodbye-the others, the same. Good Luck everyone. Stay Frosty-Bye, Bye Dragonesse91-Life is too short to fight with people over nothing.

Edward429451
June 28, 2003, 03:29 PM
.

pax
June 29, 2003, 04:42 PM
Well, this one sure went downhill in a hurry.

PMs on the way.

pax

We should be too big to take offense and too noble to give it. -- Abraham Lincoln

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