[Sven]

My girlfriend has come to the conclusion that she is not as safe as she once thought in her home in San Francisco. Her neighborhood has a lot of 'riff raff' types hanging around all day, making trouble (ie, making extremely lewd comments when she pumps gas), and... in a new low, her sister was attacked on a public bus a couple weeks ago.

She's always been interested and open minded about guns, but now she's taking a more personal interest in finding the right gun for her - of course, I couldn't be more pleased and I'm happy to help her. Two nights ago we sat down and started by reviewing gun safety, then she tried dry firing each of my guns. I showed her how to press-check and look for the snap cap, etc. In addition, I had her practice clearance drills with the snap caps and explained why we were doing this.

In the process of her practicing loading and performing malfunction clearance exercises, we quickly learned that she cannot operate the CZ 75 slide because the spring is too strong and the serrations too small for her fingers to grasp. Trying the Glock 17, she had no problem grabbing that slide and racking it.

I can only imagine how much more difficult the CZ would be to rack for her if her hands were sweaty and a bad guy was in her house. I did show her how to rack a gun one-handed using the belt against the rear sights, but obviously that would not be the default method she would want to use to chamber rounds, etc.

This experience reminded me of the importance of spending time finding the right gun for the person... especially when that person will likely only have one gun - for a while. The looks of the gun are just about last in priority for a home defense weapon. The gun needs to feel right for the person and be able to be manipulated successfully in a stressful situation.

Next trip is to the range for her to try the guns in live fire and also rent others for consideration.

Then, to get a safe.

Then, training.

[bogie]

She needs a small frame (easier for smaller hands) .357 revolver with a 2-3" barrel, which you'll load with +P .38 Special loads.

No slide, no safety, no high tech crap to get her confused.

Besides, you want one, right?

[bjengs]

What's confusing about a semiauto, especially a Glock?

[SADshooter]

In general, I agree with bogie that a .38/.357 wheelgun is probably a good choice in this situation. However, joking aside, she needs to find the combination that she ENJOYS shooting. Illustration: my wife. She purchased an SP101 several years ago because she liked mine. She never became proficient with it, though, because of the heavy DA trigger (she would often practice SA) and defensive load recoil.

Fast forward to the present, and visualize the almost demonic grin as she fires a full-size 1911 with thin stocks and a short trigger. This is the pistol at her bedside (accompanied by 5 10-rd mags) when I'm not home.

If shooting her defensive weapon is a chore, your girlfriend's level of commitment to practice and training will need to be much higher. Guide her with informative responses to questions, but let her decide. I think you've got the right approach

[AZRickD]

As we all know, the first thing that you have to consider is to have her practice with many different types of gun so she will have an idea what is out there and more importantly, she will see how each of them fit her hand differently.

The gun she buys must fit her hand naturally and comfortably. None of this mini-Glock two-finger hold stuff.

I have no problem with a revolver in the caliber and power you spoke of. But it must be a top-quality revolver with a very, very good trigger. Take it to a smith and get the inards polished and smooth.

My wife carries a Glock 23, and a S&W Chiefs Special btw.

Rick

[Steve Smith]

I also agree that a revolver is a good choice, but most of the women I date can't operate a revolver's trigger very long...is there a compromise?

I have one g/f type that is 4'11" and about 100#...she can harldy HOLD many of the guns out there. Suggestions? (Sorry, Sven, not trying to hijack your thread)

[obiwan1]

You're right to take her to the range and rent various guns. It's her decision. You may want to give some "light editorial comments" about calibers, etc but don't overdo it.

In my humble opinion, most new shooters are best served by a revolver of some sort. Check out the S&W j frames. NOT THE LIGHT WEIGHT versions as they haven't repealed the laws of physics: i.e. they kick! If she doesn't plan on pocket carry (not a bad option with the currently in fashion baggy slacks), go for the 3 inch barrels for better ballistics and sight radius. Also check out the Ruger SP101 in 3".

As for autos, think about her hand size. Mrs. Obiwan's hand fits perfectly around her Kahr K40. I think they're great "ladies guns" that I occasionally carry myself. Again, be careful with the LW models. Actually, the K9 may be the perfect auto for her. The fact that it's authorized for off duty carry by NYPD is a good endorcement.:cool:

[Skofnung]

I aquited a .38 revolver for my ladyfriend about 3 years ago. She is 5' 4" 100lbs soaking wet. At first, she had the same problem that you describe Steve, she could not hold it up for very long and the DA trigger was hard for her to operate for long periods of time. I simply used a line from one of my favorite movies, The 13th Warrior... "Grow stronger!" Over the years, she has done just that. Now she can hold it steady, but she still has problems with the DA trigger if she fires more than 5 or 6 cylinders at the time in that mode. Otherwise, she can shoot with the best of them. She even outdoes me on occasion.

I got the .38 for her because her hands were too weak to rack the slide on the BHP that I had at her house at the time. Same with the slide on my 1911.

She has no trouble racking the slide on either of my Glocks,(21 and 26) both of which she shoots well now. You might try one of those. The triggers are much lighter than that of a DA revolver, and should give no trouble to weak handed shooters. I have even considered upgrading her gun to a Sig 226 or 228, as she can work the controls on those fairly easily too.

Best of luck to you.

[Steve Smith]

I think you and I both know that telling a woman to "grow stronger" is not an easy thing to do.

[DigMe]

I've mentioned it before in these threads but my aunt loves her S&W Ladysmith 9mm and she's not one that goes out and shoots a lot (just occasionally when she's out on our land to keep familiar and check the gun). She's very comfortable with it and has carried it for years. I've never shot it but it always seemed like a nice little gun.

brad cook

[toro]

I couldn't pull the slide back on the 1911 .45. My husband started doing the gun handling for me so I could shoot. After a while I started to practice pulling the slide back. Soon it bacame easy.

The fact is that any reasonably healthy woman can learn to shoot a .45 auto and similarly effective weapons as well as men. If a woman has small hands she will need to practice. It's true that some women are less well developed in their arm and shoulder muscles, but, simple exercises such as squeezing a rubber ball, racking the slide on a .45 several hundred times and holding the pistol at arms length with a weight attached for a few minutes everday will provide the muscle development needed for serious defensive shooting.

This is not theory, it is fact, I can't begin to count the number of 90 pound, under 5 feet tall women who have become very efficient handlers of the .45. A number of them compete in the very best combat matches.

Mrs. Toro


--------------------------------------------
1 Kings 14: 15,16
For the Lord shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their father, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their grove, provoking the Lord to anger. And he shall give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who did sin, and who made Israel to sin.

[CatsDieNow]

Didn't we just do this on another thread (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27693)?

My vote is Kahr MK9. It hasn't confused me yet. Let her pick her own out, if you do it then it's your gun.

Bogie: I am capable of changing a flat tire myself too. Just because I can do it, doesn't mean that I won't try to sucker a guy into doing it for me if he's willing. Flattery works wonders here.

"Oh, gee...you're so much stronger than I am, could you please load this magazine for me?" ;)

Steve: Don't know what to tell you. I'm 5'8 and about 105lbs and I have no trouble holding a gun up. It takes some effort to load my Kahr's mags, but I can do it.

[Steve Smith]

Mrs. Toro, the issue here is interest, of course. A human can have many different levels of dedication. Some folks will not put that effort into things. Unfortunately, they often have to be "scared" into action.

Cats etc...at 5'8 you have much larger hands. This girl has more problems with the size of her hands than with strength. If she could hold a "normal" sized gun like you or I do, she could easily pull the trigger. Thinking J frame....

[Pat S]

Why not check out this topic from a female's perspective? Gila Hayes, a profesional firearms instructor, has written a book on this subject. http://www.firearmsacademy.com/book.htm

Also Paxton Quigley.

This may be your best source of info. plus suggestions on self defense.


Stay Safe, Pat S

[AJ Dual]

Yes, often "groing stronger" is really just getting acclimated to a certiain function.

Sometimes your body/brain makes assumptions about how heavy/hard an operation should be to perform, and when it offers more resistance than expected, it feels "harder" than it really is.

I suspect people who have difficulty operating slides or DA triggers probably perform other actions most every day that require more strength, (Slamming a car door, picking up a child, twisting off a lid on a jar) but just aren't used to it.

I know I've purchased guns that required more force for slides, op-rods, etc. than I was expecting to operate, but perhaps being a "gunnie" I just accepted the amount of effort and grew accustomed to it, and it quickly seemed normal. (And I know I've not gained any strength doing it.)

That is not to say all firearm qualities can be overcome, some are definitely detrimental such as grip size, and trigger pull-length, and that those ergonomic considerations are important and should not be over looked.

But frankly, in a defensive situation, slide manipulation is not something that should not need to be done with an auto (at least for the first magazine). (and yes, I think the Israeli's are nuts) If it's a design you're not comfortable with "cocked and locked" or "safe action" like a Glock, get something else. The 1% of 1% chance that you'll need that gun one-handed just isn't worth it, IMO. Go with a revolver, or something with an easy to manipulate safety then.

I would say as long as the slide can be manipulated when you are safe, and not pressed for time, and can be "slingshotted" on a fresh mag under stress, it's fine.

[lycanthrope]

With a 1911 style gun you can always use a reduced power recoil and mainspring. I run a 17lb mainspring and a 14lb recoil spring in a full size Kimber and it's easy for my lady friends to rack.

Aside from that, a Springfield XD in 9mm is a really nice design and easy to shoot well..... (IMHO)

[Sean Smith]

Here is what I have seen... no offense meant to anybody, just my experience.

The conventional wisdom gun suggestions for women are, as often as not, stupid as hell in actual application. Short-barreled revolvers, with their short sight radius (and often crummy sights), long and heavy DA triggers, and relatively heavy recoil, are among the WORST guns for most new shooters to start with. The same goes for the itty-bitty blowback .380s that are often suggested for them... crummy triggers, tiny sights, and abrupt recoil are a recepie for disaster. These might be good choices for SOME women, but are hardly universally sutible.

As a general rule, the user should choose the weapon. However, that does not mean that you provide no knowledge or guidance to them. With inexperienced women, in general they will tend to gravitate to little guns, which seem less intimidating on the counter but are far worse to actually shoot. Guys seem to gravitate to whatever they think is cool, or will keep their buddies from calling them a sissy. Then they try to shoot a .357 Magnum with no skills and wonder why they miss.

My general suggestions to any new shooter, assuming they have to go straight to a useful self-defense caliber, run something like this:

Quality brand
4"+ barrel
9x19mm (auto) or .38 Special (revolver)
No blowback autos

From there, have them scrutinize how the gun works for them. Can they manipualte the controls? Can they reach the trigger? Is the pull too heavy for them to manage consistently? You don't want to push them into a specific choice, but you want them to make an informed, not snap, decision. Of course, shooting lots of guns before you buy is invaluable if you can do it.

The whole business of women needing wimpy guns because they are physically smaller is pure B.S.. I've worked small women up to shooting 10mm Glocks in an afternoon at the range... and liking it better than the 6'3" guy who shot it ahead of them! .45 ACP 1911s are no big deal if the instruction is good and the new shooter is receptive and listens. Some of it is physical, but almost all of it is mental.

[4v50 Gary]

OK, I'm too cheap to pay the difference. Oh Oregon!

Concur with revolver if she can't rack a slide. 3" barrel is about the best for concealibility and accuracy (longer sight radius and less muzzle blast). There's a range in SSF you can take to her to practice at (or the Optimist Club in San Leandro). The good thing about indoor ranges is that you can adjust the distance of the target from the convenience of the shooting booth.

[Skofnung]

Yhea, the "grow stronger" quip did not go over well at the time. If I remember correctly, I got the evil sidelong stare that I am sure you are familliar with. But in the long run, that is exactly what she did.

I think it may have been more like what Mrs. Toro said, she just needed to develop the muscles used in doing the required activity.

Andrew: I have seen the mental block very often in guys that are not familliar with guns. One anti guy that I took out (and converted:D ) is a bodybuilder type. After shooting misc. .22 rifles & pistols, he tried my BHP, and he could not rack the slide! For a split second, I could not believe it, but then I remembered he was an anti, and had never handled one before. I just told him to grab it like he meant it, and pull. He did it with no problem then. I guess he thought he was going to break it or something. I find that happens quite often with newbies.

[Kharn]

Take her to a rental range, and dont leave until she's found something *SHE* loves and can operate (only restriction is dont let her pick a 'pretty' .22 over a 9, .40 or .45 that she can reliably operate).

Kharn

[Tommy Gunn]

Advocating a .357 Magnum revolver with a two inch barrel for a woman is crazy. The muzzleblast of a magnum snubbie will turn her off from shooting forever.

My advise is to get an older S&W Model 10 (military & police) revolver with a 4" tapered barrel. These are nice and light with a smooth trigger.

[Sven]

She doesn't like the looks of revolvers.

The Kahr PM9 was just approved in CA... hmm...

[pax]

Sven,

Congrats to you and your lady on having the wisdom to get her a gun and training.

I do hear good things about the Kahr PM9. Personally, I don't like the trigger reset, but that's my only real complaint and for many people it would be minor. The gun is so flat and light that it is an ideal carry gun.

Do let her try some of the smaller Glocks, too. Make sure that she tries the baby Glocks both with and without the extended magazine grips. Personally, I do not like the extended grips and find they even mess up my accuracy -- but I think I'm in the minority.

Since this has turned into primarily a handgun thread, I'm going to bump this over to handguns. Good luck in helping her find the right gun. :)

pax

I have always believed that a true gentleman provides covering fire while a lady is reloading. – Tamara on TFL

[only1asterisk]

Sven,

The Kahr K9 was was once available in a variant called the Lady Kahr. It's only difference from the standard K9 was the recoil spring. It was lighter, enabling people with less hand strength to rack the slide. I looked at a used model in a local shop yesterday and the slide in VERY much easier to rack. The model is no longer available, but the spring is. I think the P9 uses the same spring setup as the steel guns. The lighter spring does not allow +P ammo, but nothing stops you from putting the stock spring back.

Several of the smaller females I know like the 3" model 60, and at least one has bought her own.

There are several recent threads, so no need to rehash.


David

[CatsDieNow]

Cats etc...at 5'8 you have much larger hands.

I did do a lot of fencing when I was younger, my hands might be stronger, but I doubt that they are larger. I hold my MK9 as if it were a full-size gun. I can get all of my fingers comfortably on the grip. The trigger is also not too far away. It's cute too.

[Nick96]

Not to offend any of the Ladies out there - but in my experience, (most) women generally aren't "into" guns - or anything else requiring an intuitive knowledge of basic mechanics. So simple is better. With regard to handguns, something like an all steel S&W "J" frame size DA revolver loaded with low pressure wadcutters or hollow points is probably going to work best. If she takes an interest, then move on to whatever you like.

Case in point, many years ago I got a Walther PP for my S.O. She shot it well, was pretty accurate with it and seemed to understand safe handling of it (at least as long as I was around to observe). By her self one day, she took it out of the purse and wanted to "make it safe". Screwing with it (with other distractions going on), she ended up shooting a hole in the floor. Fortunately, neither her self or others were in the path of the bullet. She is not a stupid person. In fact, intectually and within her field of expertise, she is one of the brightest people I know. Just not terribly "interested" in basic mechanics. Needless to say, the PP went bye bye shortly thereafter.

Face facts. Wanting to carry a gun around soley based on an immediate perceived threat probably isn't good. If there is an aptitude, willingness and disipline to to practice and use a handgun - then fine. Otherwise, forget it. Figure out something else other than a handgun.

[Sunray]

"...can't operate a revolver's trigger very long...is there a compromise?" Yep, a trigger job. A well tuned trigger will allow her to shoot and be comfortable doing so.

[Shootin' Buddy]

Starting a beginning shooter with a revolver was good advice back in the day when the 1911 was the only semi-auto pistol to choose from. Now that there are so many good semi-autos that work well and are simple to operate, it's no longer necessary to start a beginner on a wheelgun.

[roscoe]

To my mind, the reason to advocate a revolver is not necessarily the physical ability (to rack a slide, etc.), but because in a pressure situation there is no need to have to think about whether the safety is engaged, or the hammer back. Even with a Glock you have to think about whether a round is chambered (many people keep pistols by their beds in condition 3).

My wife loves shooting my CZ 75 much more than her model 38, but she feels much more comfortable with the 38 because she knows she does not have to be thinking about its status. Many people do not want to have to be making mental checks on their firearms. Sure, we do here at THR, but we have to be realistic about the rest who just want to defend themselves. With a revolver it is point and bang. There is just a lot less to think about.

[Gary H]

Sven/Steve:

I went through this a few years ago. When we finally meet you will also meet my 4'9" wife. Here is what I went through.

Kahr K9: Can't rack slide Likes Grip
Glock 35: Can't rack slide. Grip overly large
Sig Pro: Can't rack slide. Small grip bit large
Ruger SP-101: Can't pull trigger
S&W Mod 66: Can't pull trigger. Grip bit large
Keltec P-32: Can't rack slide

Other information:

Beretta makes one of the easiest slides to rack

Lightened trigger (trigger job) SP-101: Easy to shoot.

About to try Valtro with thinner grips..for semi-auto. John finished the work on mine and I hope to pick it up Monday.

She currently uses the Mod 66/Miculek Grips/Safariland Comp II & III/Del Fatti Belt and Blade-Tech Offset-Drop Kydex holster and speedloader pouches. I installed light springs from Brownells and put a combination toothpaste/polishing compound into trigger mechanism and dryfired for a few day. The trigger is not easy and smooth. Amy loves this gun.

Sold the Sig. Gave away the Kahr and kept the rest for her husband.

Bullseye in San Rafael will rent you a gun for $10-$12.. They usually let you just try one and then another without any extra charge. Last time there they had Beretta, Valtro, XD, SP-101, K-Frame Smiths, Glock and many others. One of my friends settled on an XD by going through the whole display case and shooting almost every gun.

[Mad Man]

In the process of her practicing loading and performing malfunction clearance exercises, we quickly learned that she cannot operate the CZ 75 slide because the spring is too strong and the serrations too small for her fingers to grasp. Trying the Glock 17, she had no problem grabbing that slide and racking it.



You must not only consider the ability to operate the slide (and other controls) on a semi-auto, but maintenance. If someone can barely rack the slide, they're going to have a lot trouble taking the gun apart for cleaning.

The ability to take apart a semi-auto pistol is something most of us here take for granted. But think about how difficult and confusing it can be for a novice, and/or someone who just wants a gun for protection, and not a hobby.



What's confusing about a semiauto, especially a Glock?



"Put your right-thumb around the backstrap. Grasp the slide with your remaning four fingers over the top of the slide. Pull the slide exactly 0.123141598 inches back. With your other hand, pull down on the stubby take-down levers, etc. etc."

Don't get me wrong, I own six Glocks and love them. But I've seen mechanically inclined guys get confused by trying to take a Glock apart.

After all, just because we drive our cars every day does not mean we know how to take them apart, want to know how to take them apart, or have the time and dedication to learn how to take them apart.




I also agree that a revolver is a good choice, but most of the women I date can't operate a revolver's trigger very long...is there a compromise?


How long will someone need to operate a revolver for in a self-defense situation?

Extended range sessions can be done from a bench (to reduce fatigue from weight of the gun), or in single-action (to reduce fatigue from trigger pull). Also, as somebody noted above, a trigger job can be done to lighten the pull. I would think that you could even put in a lighter mainspring yourself, but I might be wrong about that.

Also, unlike single-action autos or some hammerless autos (Glocks, Kahrs), you can do repetitive dry fire drills with a double-action revolver (and even double-action auto). It should go without saying to make sure the gun is unloaded, first.

Such dry-fire drills can also be used to "grow stronger." Remember in Silence of the Lambs when Clarice was being timed on how many times she could pull the trigger on her revolver per minute, and was expected to improve? Can't do that with a 1911 or Glock.



In addition to all of the advice above (about trying out different guns), my recommendation in situations like this generally is:

A Ruger SP-101 (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=9) with a 3", not the 2", barrel, in .38 or .38/.357.

Replace the factory grips with something more comfortable (I've found the Hogue soft-rubber grips (http://www.hogueinc.com/getgrip/merchant.ihtml?pid=3512&lastcatid=398&step=4) work for most people. Individual results may vary.)

I belive the advantages of this setup are

1) Rugers are relatively inexpensive
2) You get a small-frame revolver, with enough weight to absorb recoil of most .38 loads.
3) Wide variety of relatively inexpensive ammo available, from light .38s to heavy .357s.
4) The 3" barrel provides a better sight radius than the 2", but makes the gun easier to carry than a 4". This makes the gun work as both a home-defense and carry (in a purse) gun.
5) If she plans on doing a lot of shooting, you can get a the same gun in .22 LR for practice of fundementals. Granted, she'd have to shoot a lot of .22 to recoup the cost of the gun, but it is something to consider.

My only real complaint with fixed-sight revolvers is the rear sight.

That's just my idea, so take it for what it's worth.

If you do go the revolver route, I've found it easier to carry (and learn how to use) Bianchi Speed Strips (http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/243389), rather than mechanical speed loaders.




Not to offend any of the Ladies out there - but in my experience, (most) women generally aren't "into" guns - or anything else requiring an intuitive knowledge of basic mechanics. So simple is better. With regard to handguns, something like an all steel S&W "J" frame size DA revolver loaded with low pressure wadcutters or hollow points is probably going to work best. If she takes an interest, then move on to whatever you like.


After years of watching newbie men shoot, I think this applies to us as well. They think they're "into" guns, but in reality, they've just watched too many action movies. I really wished I'd suggested revolvers for these guys, instead (mainly to avoid the "spray-and-pray" mentality, but for other reasons as well).


Just because the 1911 is the be-all/end-all of handguns does not mean everyone should be forced to use one. As Nick96 said, start them off with a revolver. If they show a serious interest in learning more, then see if something else will work better. After a while, something else probably will.

[pax]

Good grief.

Hey guys, Sven's first post made perfect sense and I'm surprised how many people missed what he said. He said he is working with her to help her choose the gun that she is going to shoot. He also said that she is able and willing to learn a bit more and that is why he is excited to work with her on it.

In a later post, he said that she doesn't want a revolver. Since Sven is a pretty smart guy, he probably won't tell her that she is too stupid, too weak, too lazy, or too female to learn how to operate a semi-auto. He will instead work with her to find the semi-auto that's right for her and work with her to help her learn how to use it.

That's sure a lot more helpful and a lot less insulting than what a dumb guy would do in the same situation.

pax

Complete masculinity and stupidity are often indistinguishable. -- H.L. Mencken

[Sean Smith]

In a later post, he said that she doesn't want a revolver. Since Sven is a pretty smart guy, he probably won't tell her that she is

too stupid,
too weak,
too lazy, or
too female
to learn how to operate a semi-auto. He will instead work with her to find the semi-auto that's right for her and work with her to help her learn how to use it.

No kidding! You can get MUCH better results teaching women (or anybody else) how to shoot if:

a. You don't choose the gun for them, then wonder why they don't take to shooting it.
b. You aren't a patronizing twit.

:rolleyes:

[CZF]

Have you shown her a CZ83? All the women who have seen my '83
just love it. Bigger than most .380s and shoots like a dream. The
slide is easy to operate. it is an easy gun to field strip. Pretty awesome
with Glasers or other exotic loads that boost the stopping power. low
price, but high quality. Comes in .32/380/9mm Mak.

The Glock 26 is another gun that women like. I far prefer the smooth
action and recoil of the CZ83.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Don't recommend a revolver for a woman unless she asks for one. I'm a female shooter myself -- 5'2", 114 pounds....small hands. I got a 442, hated it, sold it, couldn't get away fast enough. I have two Beretta type M compacts and looking for a third and fourth soon. They're slim, great for carry and home defense, never jam, easy to maintain. Don't listen to the garbage it's easier than a revolver. Says who? Spend some time with it and it's not rocket science. I found the 9mm to be cheaper ammo and gentle recoil. I LOVE my Berettas -- but it's got to be your girlfriend's choice. It's like with clothes, don't buy people clothes -- give them money so they can buy their own and that way no hassles regarding the returns. Let her try out the guns at a range where she can rent if possible. If not, take her to the shop, let her feel them out and stick with the 9mm to be safe. She'll have a blast....:D Regarding safety -- I always believe it's a great thing especially for a novice. Ask your girlfriend. Maybe the gun she loves, it won't be an issue but her hands -- her choice.

[Mastrogiacomo]

One of many reasons I love my Berettas is the single/double action. I've used DAO before -- can't pull the trigger or hit the side of a barn with it. Be kind to your girlfriend, if she can't use it first, stick with the 9mm in single/double action and don't buy S&W. They did a story in Women and Guns -- the S&W pistols had the worst trigger pull. Glock 26 was the best, Sig 223 nice -- of course the Beretta M -- hands down winner in my book...:cool:

[miatchguy]

Maybe you should get her a S&W .500, better yet how 'bout a 12 gauge; why stop there? Just get her a big .50 caliber machine gun and she should be safe.

[Sven]

My 'significant other' and I just talked on the phone about this. She likes the Glock 17 so far because she could rack the slide and can hang on to the gun when firing. The CZ is a little less ergonomic, also heavy compared to the plastic wonders.

Here's the deal: she told me that she wants VALUE. Sounds like a test drive of the Springfield XP is in order.

One option would certainly be a Valtro... but .45 ACP seems a bit hot for her, so far anyhow. She is holding correctly... she's just sortof a little stunned at the 'BOOM' of the .45 versus the 'CRACK' of the 9mm...

Jardine's Custom shop put out a killer 9mm single stack that I saw in person. It fed flawlessly over the entire IDPA match, and Jardine even made custom mag pads for the customer so that this young lady could strip the mags more quickly.

The Beretta type M compacts sound intriguing, but she likes the full size frame... not that purse carry is an option in SFO.

/

Maybe Jerry Brown's guru (with his CCW - the only CCW issued in the city of Oakland (http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/oaklandzen.html)) can come help my girlfriend if someone attacks her on the street.

:barf:

/sarcasm

[miatchguy]

NOO!!! .50 Caliber machine gun!!! Nevermind, just for that I'm making you get her grenades!:mad:

[Mastrogiacomo]

Sven -- if it's "value" she wants, it's nothing a Glock or Beretta can't handle. If she doesn't want the compact size Beretta -- get the classic full size 92FS. At the very least, give it a fair consideration. Either should more than meet her expectations and just because a gun is expensive, doesn't mean it's the best. The best is what's comfortable, reliable, and easy to use. The Glock 17 or Beretta 92FS would be a fantastic choice for anyone looking for value -- but again, it should be her choice. She'll have fun looking I'm sure, especially if your paying for it. :p