Pa. black caucus: No gun laws, no budget

Pa. black caucus: No gun laws, no budget
Angry Phila. legislators aim to hold up spending bill over crime relief.
By Amy Worden
Inquirer Harrisburg Bureau
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20070628_Pa__black_caucus__No_gun_laws__no_budget.html

HARRISBURG - Anger about the lack of action on gun-control bills boiled over onto the House floor yesterday, with several African American Democrats from Philadelphia vowing to hold up passage of the state budget unless their bills are considered.
With the city's death toll approaching 200 this year, six members of the Pennsylvania Legislative Black Caucus made impassioned pleas for help during an unexpected two-hour discussion about gun violence and many of its root causes: drugs, joblessness and poverty.

They were not debating a bill; none of the 14 anticrime bills introduced this session has even made it out of a House committee.

Amid a busy day filled with a slew of budget bills, Rep. Jewell Williams, chairman of the Philadelphia delegation, used a parliamentary procedure known as "unanimous consent" to voice his frustration over the stalled gun-control bills.

"I am going to make it completely clear: no gun legislation, no votes for the budget," Williams said. "Philadelphia members are constantly asked to support legislation that helps other areas of the state as our pleas for help continue to fall on deaf ears.

The Democrats hold a one-seat majority in the 203-member House. The caucus, with 17 members, could block the budget.

Rep. Thomas W. Blackwell of Philadelphia told anti-gun-control rural lawmakers, who make up the majority of the House, that he had no intention of trying to restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens.

"We're not trying to control what you do in your home," he said. "We're trying to control what's going on in the streets of Philadelphia."

Several suburban Philadelphia lawmakers stood to support their urban colleagues. Rep. Mike Gerber (D., Montgomery) said gun violence has a negative effect on the region.

"These problems don't know city borders," he said. "The guns flow into Montgomery County, certainly in levels that are unacceptable."

Rep. Thaddeus Kirkland (D., Delaware), chairman of the Pennsylvania Legislative Black Caucus, which has 17 House members, invoked the words of civil rights activist Malcolm X on the House floor, saying he was prepared to advance the cause of gun control "by any means necessary."

"We are prepared to stand firm and we could hold up some things," he said. When asked whether he meant the budget, Kirkland said, "yes."

It was unclear how many other members of the caucus would support Williams and Kirkland in their threat, but House leadership recognized the power of the caucus as a voting bloc.

"Their concern is legitimate; you can't blame them for using the only tool in their toolbox," said Mike Manzo, chief of staff for House Majority Leader Bill DeWeese (D., Greene). "They wield considerable influence."

Gov. Rendell has repeatedly called for stricter gun laws, even going so far last month as to suggest that the legislature was being controlled by the National Rifle Association.

His spokesman, Chuck Ardo, said Rendell sympathizes with the Philadelphia legislators' intent and that "he himself intends to make a further push for the one-handgun-a month legislation in the fall."

But, he added, "If the governor held up the budget over every critical issue facing the commonwealth, at least the essential personnel will be here when the snow falls."

Early yesterday evening, in a surprise move, Rep. Thomas Caltagirone (D., Berks), chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, called a committee meeting to vote on Williams' bill to require the reporting of lost and stolen firearms (HB 29).

It failed by a vote of 11-17, but committee members agreed to reconsider the legislation later.

Other gun-control legislation still in the House Judiciary Committee includes a bill that would limit handgun purchases to one a month and another that would allow Philadelphia to craft its own gun laws.

One outcome of yesterday's impromptu gun-control debate is a new commission that will come up with bipartisan anticrime legislation.

House Speaker Dennis O'Brien (R., Phila.), responding to a request from members, said he would form a special commission to address crime and violence. His spokesman, Bill Patton, said the commission members would include outside experts and crime victims' groups, as well as lawmakers, who will draft legislation for consideration this fall.

For some, there's been enough talk about crime.

"Commissions are fine," said Kirkland. "But we have to move beyond that. We need action."

What's the response from the Pennsylvania Legislative White Caucus?
Oh, wait there isn't one, is there?
gun violence and many of its root causes: drugs, joblessness and poverty.
Cause #1 Just say no.
Cause #2 Get a job.
Cause #3 Get a job.

So why not start a PA white caucus? Nobody is stopping you from doing it.

"Commissions are fine," said Kirkland. "But we have to move beyond that. We need action."

Umm, so start arresting the criminals and stop worrying about the tools???

The very atmosphere of of firearms any where and every where restrains evil interference. They deserve a place of HONOR with all that is good. G. Washington
Only Criminals, Dictators, and Communists fear armed citizens.
The Constitution SHALL never be construed to Authorize Congress to prevent the people of the U.S who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. Sam Adams
They who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
See how far we have come?

See, if the PA gun-nuts would just cave on this, the Philadelphians would get the ineffectual gun-control that they want, and all the other regions in PA would get...oh wait....

The ne'er-do-'ells in Wilmington, DE already make money selling some of the purest heroin in the country; now, they can supplement that by running guns to Philadelphians. :rolleyes:

These black leaders represent mostly poor districts, the very places law abiding voters most need to be able to protect themselves from criminals. Just who are they speaking for, the good guys or the bad guys?

As a resident of Montgomery County I'm all in favor of giving Philadelphia lawmakers all they want, but only after Philadelphia has been severed from Pennsylvania and given to New Jersey. they deserve each other.:fire:

Rather ironic that Philadelphia is home to the Liberty Bell.

It would be exceedingly interesting to see what would happen if if the state budget was not passed. This is nothing short of extortion of the citizens of Pennsylvania, and I really don't think they would be very happy at not having police, fire, and other basic services available to them because there is no budget for them.

I wonder who would be voted out of office. Those who voted to pass the budget or those who wouldn't vote at all..... one of those things that makes you say hmmmmmmmm......

If it does happen, I wish all the best to the citizens of Pennsylvania.

"by any means necessary."

Malcom X was making a thinly veiled reference to the use of violence. Let me get the logic of this = we are prepared to use vilence to reduce violence - mmmm thinks.

"We're not trying to control what you do in your home," he said. "We're trying to control what's going on in the streets of Philadelphia."

This from the representatives of the area that earlier this year had grown men and teenage boys swearing off acting like thugs and miscreants in their own neighborhoods? :rolleyes:

Several suburban Philadelphia lawmakers stood to support their urban colleagues. Rep. Mike Gerber (D., Montgomery) said gun violence has a negative effect on the region.
"These problems don't know city borders," he said.

If you would just get smart and simply allocate funds to build 30 ft concrete walls on the borders of your suburbs and leave only a freeway corridor as the access point to Philly you could solve that problem without (technically) taking anyone's rights away. It would probably cost less too.


"The guns flow into Montgomery County, certainly in levels that are unacceptable."

Yes, if everyone in Philly had a gun I bet the desire to use them to commit violent crime would decrease.

The problems in Philadelphia are not the result of not enough gun laws. You have an soon to be retired mayor that could care less. He is busy filling his pockets before he leaves.

Then you have a police department that is losing more officers than they are recruiting. Morale is at an all time low. They are overworked, understaffed, underpaid and out gunned.

Next we have the liberal judges that refuse to jail these creatures to the maximum. Our prisons are a right of passage to the up and coming thug class. It is thought to be an initiation and on the job training instead of a deterrent.

Then you have the people themselves. These people, for the most part, could care less about the number of drug related murders that occur on a daily basis. They view the police as the enemy. They take great delight in watching the police muddle through a crime scene investigation all the while hurling insults.

The vast majority of these murders take place in broad daylight with many witnesses. In these neighborhoods, they do not have jobs nor are they out looking for jobs. They have no airconditioning unless they live in public housing, so they do nothing but stand on corners or sit on their front porches or steps. Yet when there is a shooting, no one sees anything.

I do not expect the situation to improve until the bad guys kill each other off. New laws will change nothing.

http://www3.iath.virginia.edu/sixties/Graphics/Track16/by_any_means.gif


Rep. Thaddeus Kirkland (D., Delaware), chairman of the Pennsylvania Legislative Black Caucus, which has 17 House members, invoked the words of civil rights activist Malcolm X on the House floor, saying he was prepared to advance the cause of gun control "by any means necessary."

Thaddeus...good invocation there bro!

Funny that, I'm willing to defend my gun rights by "any means necessary.";)

:barf: Let's shut down the economy...

1 pistol per month...but, why stop there?!

1 tank of gasoline per week

1 6-pack of beer per week

1 loaf of bread per week

"As a resident of Montgomery County I'm all in favor of giving Philadelphia lawmakers all they want, but only after Philadelphia has been severed from Pennsylvania and given to New Jersey. they deserve each other."

You may as well give it to us. With Camden here already, we'd hardly notice. Camden is another sterling example of "Your Gun Legislation At Work". Not to mention Trenton and Newark, but at least they're in North Jersey.


:cuss::banghead::fire:

How about offering more money for more police to enforce existing laws? THAT would be better than making laws go on the books that are useless.

As a resident of Montgomery County I'm all in favor of giving Philadelphia lawmakers all they want, but only after Philadelphia has been severed from Pennsylvania and given to New Jersey. they deserve each other.

I could not agree more with this. Philadelphia is a cesspool that is dragging the rest of the state down, and if it continues, we will end up like New York state, with the entire state supporting and subsidizing the liberal fantasies of one huge city to the detriment of the rest of the populace. Their politicians don't get it and won't get it, and the people there are going to keep putting them in office because of all the rhetoric they spew, not for anything they actually accomplish. :banghead: :fire: :cuss: :banghead: :fire: :cuss:

The ne'er-do-'ells in Wilmington, DE already make money selling some of the purest heroin in the country

I take great exception to that, I think the stuff I buy in Baltimore is much more pure...

Why would any black politico want to make sure that their people are unarmed? They are WELL aware that early in this nation's history that many blacks were not allowed to own firearms due to racism and 'subject race' mentality. But now, they themselves want to be a 'subject race' by enacting the very same sort of laws? Now they will REALLY be subject 'to the man', won't they? And this is good :banghead: ???

They preach independence but at every turn they foster dependence upon government. They have never contrived a solution yet that didn't begin with the words "Federally funded" or "State Mandated". I honestly don't 'get it'.

if those idiots worked harder to bring in more employers and generate s tronger local economy, they'd find their other problems fading away rather quickly.

jobs and opportunities generate hope and real independance - which fight crime and general lawlessness better than any laws and restrictions.

they should try giving something actually positive.

Let's shut down the economy...

1 pistol per month...but, why stop there?!

1 tank of gasoline per week

1 6-pack of beer per week

1 loaf of bread per week

yes, works wonders. just like 80's in Poland where i grew up. except replace week with month :barf:

As a resident of Montgomery County I'm all in favor of giving Philadelphia lawmakers all they want, but only after Philadelphia has been severed from Pennsylvania and given to New Jersey. they deserve each other.

I couldn't agree with you more, Ron.
I'm also a resident of Montgomery Co. and it pisses me off that our Rep for our area is based in Philly.

Does the word "blackmail" ring any bells?

Why would any black politico want to make sure that their people are unarmed?

Because they've bought into the BS of the liberals in that in order to stop crime, you have to write laws to cover everything, rather than nailing people on the laws that are already there.

You want to stop crime in a city, start big. Get a few hundred cops together, and haul in every gang in the city. Mix the various gangs up in the jail for three days while figuring out what to charge them with.

Th gangs will fight the cops before being arrested, that's a felony. The gangs will fight in the jail, likely to the death. That's a felony. So basicly, anyone left standing at the end of the operation is either a cop, or going to prison for life.
It's a hard way of doing things, but as long as the gangs are running the show in a city, there's no way to curb the violence. Especially by enacting laws that every knows are only followed by the good people.

Tecumseh said,
So why not start a PA white caucus? Nobody is stopping you from doing it.
That would be considered racist.
Why not focus on Individual rights, and protect everyones rights.

Thing is, ol' Malcom X was pretty cool with the right to keep & bear arms...

That's a laugh!

Just make sure that No Budget = No Welfare Checks and see how long the Philly legislators hold out.

You've got all the time in the world. Hell, make it "No Retro Checks once the budget IS signed" and watch 'em squirm.

I'm all in favor of giving Philadelphia lawmakers all they want, but only after Philadelphia has been severed from Pennsylvania and given to New Jersey. they deserve each other.


Get in line I've been trying to get NJ to take NYC off our hands, heck I'd even throw in Staten Island and Long Island

Originally posted by pcscomar:
Tecumseh said,

Quote:
So why not start a PA white caucus? Nobody is stopping you from doing it.

That would be considered racist.
Why not focus on Individual rights, and protect everyones rights.

I was just asking why the other poster was so concerned about it. I dont think it is racist to have a black caucus. If he is so concerned about that he could join an organization that is pro-white like the KKK. Or there are organizations for Muslims, Jews, Christians, and different religions. Different ethnic origins as well. Just because your group does not have one does not mean that you cant start one.

I think it is an example of white people wanting to feel like they are the victims. But that is just me.

I wonder how these black legislators would feel about reinstating laws prohibiting blacks from owning firearms. This would specifically target those who fit the profile of potential criminals in urban areas while not affecting suburban white property owners.

Until well after the Civil war there were such laws on the books in the south.

OS

Until well after the Civil war there were such laws on the books in the south.Very true and people generally don't know that over 60,000 free blacks lost their lives fighting for their country in the Confederate Army.

Jefferson

Actually Owen Sparks why would you want to do that? The lawmakers themselves happen to be black but otherwise are not making race an issue. Thats all it is. They just happen to be members of a black organization. The laws they intend to write will affect everyone, not just whites or black people. So please dont try and drag racism into this.

I think it is an example of white people wanting to feel like they are the victims. But that is just me.
I dislike racism in any form.
The political left argues that stringent federal laws are needed to combat racism, even as they advocate incredibly divisive collectivist policies.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist.

The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.

More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct our sins, we should understand that racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty.
Ron Paul, http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=508

Some people (especially) persons who are banned from legal firearm possession, want to disarm the rest of us too!

Maybe not the lawmakers in this instance, but certainly their vast majority of criminal constituents...

Tecumseh,

You are missing the something. I was being facetious. illustrating absurdity by being absurd.

Jefferson said "no free man shall be denied the use of arms" and when denial of this right was applied only to black people, it was considered inequality and eventually, laws like this were overturned.

I just can't fathom how todays black "leadership" would want to surrender such hard won rights.

OS

ban gun ownership for blacks?
that seems to be what they are really asking for anyway.:barf:

Actually...if it was proved that blacks cause more crime...or are the main illegal users of firearms...I'd like to see what would happen if a law prohibiting blacks from owning guns would do...in fact, I'd suggest one of the black caucus introduce the bill. It could be a referendum vote in Philadelphia.

I'd be extremely curious how such a bill or referndum would fare...

"As a resident of Montgomery County I'm all in favor of giving Philadelphia lawmakers all they want, but only after Philadelphia has been severed from Pennsylvania and given to New Jersey. they deserve each other."

I'll throw in Chicago and the rest of Cook County.

I say, tell the Black Caucus this:

If you disarm Philadelphians, then the alternative is roving bands of white cops patrolling your neighborhoods. Want to bet $10 these bills would never pass?

Sorry, I can't bite my tongue anymore...and sorry this isn't totally on topic.

The Congressional Black Caucus IS breeding racism and separation. No, there isnt a Congressional White Caucus becasue it would be viewed as racist. Then again, only whites can be racist. For all other groups its called "Ethnic Pride"

Last time I checked.....For The People, Of The People, By The People.....made absolutely NO mention of race.
Why does the CBC feel the need to separate blacks from everyone else, ie- the People?

Tecumseh, Since you already spoke of the KKK....can you site any other ALL white organizations that are not also considered Racist?

Andy
*flame suit on*

"We're not trying to control what you do in your home," he said. "We're trying to control what's going on in the streets of Philadelphia.

Hmmm. It seems to me that a Pittsburgh newspaper writer wanted a total ban on guns, to be enforced by house-to-house searches, with fine and imprisonment for gun ban violators. The last time I heard that proposal, the penalty was to be summary execution for everyone in a house where any gun, ammunition, gun accessory or gun literature was found.

Our enemies must be mellowing.

Jim

fairness doctrines, 'minority rights'...

they point out minute differences in the attempt to make it fair.

'we the people' should not be meant to discriminate, nor do i think it ever truly was meant to.

when you create a group to advocate the rights of such things that were never meant to be divided in the first place, all you do is cement the fact that there IS a difference, that two races ARE separate... they're not.

we are all colors, races, religions, and we're all americans.

"We're not trying to control what you do in your home," he said. "We're trying to control what's going on in the streets of Philadelphia.

Banning CCW in the streets of Philadelphia bans the right of self defense.

There are many different pro-white groups that are not considered racist. There are IRish cop associations, Italian American business owner associations, etc.

Has anybody bothered to check if these fine African-Americans have a green card? Natural born citizens they can't be.

Don't skip around, we are talking about plain ol' white people. Not Italian Americans, or Irish Americans. What are some all white, non ethnic associated groups that are not considered racist?

It would be exceedingly interesting to see what would happen if if the state budget was not passed. This is nothing short of extortion of the citizens of Pennsylvania...

Maybe I'm confused. I get the impression the PA black caucus is pro-gun--after all, they're offering us a win-win twofer! No gun control AND no state budget! I'm going to call my rep and ask him to support this awesome initiative.

--Len.

Dear All (especially PA residents),
I agree that no gun control is great- but I see a disturbing trend in the lawmakers you have cited for doing this stuff- suburban lawmakers are joining in the push. I am from Cook Cty, Illinois originally, and you guys need to prevent happening in PA what happened in IL- fight in the suburbs for every pro-gun vote, get people out shooting, while maintaining your strength in the rural areas. I have seen what has happened in Illinois when suburban Cook County went anti-gun- we have had a stream of bad legislation passed that the other parts of the state were not able to vote down. I have heard PA has some good gun laws- it would be a shame to see that go down the tubes b/c the suburbs were influenced too much towards Philly anti-gun policies.

just my 2 cents.

Does anyone have any misgivings about the impact of limited firearms sales? If the politicos get limits placed on firearms purchases, the gunshop owners will slowly go bankrupt. Bankrupt stores go out of business. No businesses selling firearms, no firearms.

Limited sales = no more firearms!

Politicians only care about "some" businesses. Remember, their "business" is government...and it's a monopoly.

BTW, most of the pressure in PA stems from Ed Rendell (current governor, former mayor of Philadelphia). Rendell was one of the architects behind the lawsuits against gun manufacturers a few years ago.
Rendell (when he was mayor) also refused to join in the NRA's Project Exile (a crime commited when using a gun = jail time...no debate). So...he has no real interest in reducing crime. Project Exile worked pretty good, if I recall correctly.
And, all those other representatives are just his lackeys...

When ramped crime and poverty is present as a result of government hand outs, slap on the wrist prison sentences, and drug prohibition, blame the problems on innatament objects and racism. :barf:

Charity isn't the only thing that begins at home. If they don't like their city they should do something about it. After all, it is their home, children, neighbors, and constituencies.

Employing blackmail(no pun intended) and extortion in order to bulldoze their anti liberty agenda, eh?

These "legislators" are really just aspiring despots!

HaoleSS: Well you would have to understand that the majority of African Americans in this country are the descendants of slaves. And that they cannot trace their lineage back to their country, tribe, or whatever social structure. Can white people? Usually. So they banded together because for the majority of American history white people would mistreat black people.

So why dont you start a white political caucus instead of whining about the fact their is a black one?

Actually Doubleleg racism is very prevalent today. It is just not as open as it once was. A study by the U of Wisconsin found that potential employers were more likely to give callbacks and interviews to white people with felony records than black people with no felony records. If you give me a day I can probably pull up the article

There are many examples of racism like this.

I would say the solution is simple, don't pass a budget. The hell with those people.:neener:

I do understand that most black people were decendents of slaves.

Do you understand that it was not the white man that made them slaves? Do you understand that it was their own tribes and villages that sold them to the white man?
Do you understand that they were slaves for their own people long before they came to America?
Do you understand that the white man abolished slavery with the 13th amendment and the Emancipation Proclamation?
Do you understand that there is still slavery going on in Africa to this day?

I just want people to stop blaming white america for everyone elses problems.

And I would like you Tecumseh, to admit that having a Congressional Black Caucus in our Government does nothing but continue to promote separation when So many have fought long and hard for Equality.
If you can't admit that, then these Caucus's (the govt voice of black americans) are saying that the black people in America do NOT want Equality.

Why are you discounting the fact that it was white people who bought slaves. THis suggests they condoned it. I do know that the slaves whom were bought were captives of tribal warfare. And the Congress, not the white man as a whole, abolished slavery. Did you forget that Jim Crowe laws lasted a long long time?

What about groups like the World Church of the Creator, the KKK, Hammer Skins, and other white supremacist groups? They are a lot worse than a black caucus yet you do not seem so concerned with them? What about the Alabama "Free Militia" that was planning on killing Mexicans?

By the way what does the SS stand for in your name?

If Philly's pols are serious about reducing crime, they need to fund their own increase in the PD and put more cops on the streets, like foot patrols, not in patrol cars, and undercover, not in administrative positions.

Yes, the white man did condone it at the time of purchase. So did the Africans that sold them. We did not make them slaves, they were bought that way. Blacks should start blaming their Ancestry for their enslavement and issues they blame on it still today. Captives of tribal warefare huh? I guess before they lost a battle and became slaves....they never once won a battle and took slaves/prisoners of their own huh? Nah, that would never happen.
Yes i am aware that Congress abolished slavery. Who was in congress at the time? Wasn't it all white?

And thanks for proving my point exactly. I asked you previously to name some all White groups that are NOT considered Racist. I knew you couldnt, I just wanted to see you try.
I'll say again, only white people can be racist....for all others its just showing ethnic pride.

Haole means "white". It is what people from Hawai'i called me. I lived there for 6 years. Its a racial slur, not flattering to white people visiting the islands. The SS is for the 00' Camaro SS I drove for 5 years.

Lemme guess Tecumseh, you were going to assume that the SS was something Nazi. If not, I apologize for assuming.

Why are you discounting the fact that it was white people who bought slaves. THis suggests they condoned it. I do know that the slaves whom were bought were captives of tribal warfare. And the Congress, not the white man as a whole, abolished slavery. Did you forget that Jim Crowe laws lasted a long long time?

And this has what, exactly, to do with the PA black caucas? Stuff that happened, beyond our control 140+ years ago is water under the damn bridge. Whinning about it in 2007 doesnt change it. And I thought you were a Libertarian, but sometimes you talk like a 'progressive'.

What about groups like the World Church of the Creator, the KKK, Hammer Skins, and other white supremacist groups? They are a lot worse than a black caucus yet you do not seem so concerned with them? What about the Alabama "Free Militia" that was planning on killing Mexicans?

These fringe groups do not pass bills to limit our gun rights. They make gun owners look bad when they use guns in crimes. And the KKK? Dont make me laugh. There is no longer a 'KKK national' and hasnt been since about 1940.

Jawing about who done what to whom as to slavery ain't a subject for THR.

What has permeated such groups as the NAACP and the various Black Caucuses of both Congress and state legislatures is a 180-degree reversal of opinion from thirty years ago.

Back then, these groups strongly supported the right of blacks to be able to defend themselves. They saw gun control as racist. (Discussion of anti "Saturday Night Specials", etc., with the Congressional Black Caucus speaking out against some Ted Kennedy-type nonsense.)

Anyhow, stay with the subject of the opening post. I suggest re-reading and then staying focussed...

:), Art

Well, I see no budget agreement in Harrisburg. Looks like they may lay off up 30000 state employees.

One thing is noticably absent (in what I read) was any action concerning the black caucus relating to guns or anything else, for that matter.

However, all you Pennsylvanians keep a close eye out for backdoor deals, and not just talking about the black caucus either

In general most politicians will pull for the richest, most influential people in their districts. In most poor districts that is gangs and drug dealers.

Gun issue won't stall budget
Pa.'s black caucus leader met with the NRA. He sees progress.


By Amy Worden
Inquirer Harrisburg Bureau

HARRISBURG - The president of the Pennsylvania Legislative Black Caucus said yesterday that after meeting with House Democratic leaders and the National Rifle Association, he would not seek to hold up the state budget over gun-control legislation.

"They have made a commitment to doing something, maybe not today or next week, but next month," said Rep. Thaddeus Kirkland (D., Delaware), chairman of the 17-member group.

Kirkland said late yesterday that he had yet to discuss the results of the meeting with the members of his caucus and did not know if they stood with him on his budget pledge.

Last week, Kirkland and other members of the caucus forced a floor debate on gun violence, threatening to withhold critical votes on the budget unless the chamber took action on gun-control bills.

But yesterday, with budget negotiations at a standstill two days into the new fiscal year, Kirkland said he was satisfied with the progress made during yesterday's unusual meeting with the NRA, the powerful interest group that has stood firmly on the opposite side of gun-control measures.

With 250,000 members in Pennsylvania, the NRA enjoys widespread bipartisan support among state lawmakers.

"It was positive," Kirkland said of the meeting. "We look forward to hearing their proposals."

The NRA's Pennsylvania lobbyist agreed.

"We both want the same results; we want to attack crime in Pennsylvania, particularly in Philadelphia," said John Hohenwarter. "We are hoping to come to agreement on a package that fulfills everyone's needs."

But the most controversial bill, to limit handgun purchases to one a month, and other gun-control measures that Philadelphia lawmakers and Gov. Rendell believe can have the greatest impact on gun violence were not part of the discussion.

Hohenwarter called one-handgun-a-month laws a "fraud" and contended they had failed in states where they had been tried. Instead, he said, lawmakers should find ways to provide more funding for law enforcement, investigation and prosecution.

"They should not pass legislation just to grab headlines," he said.

Rendell, amid budget negotiations last week, has remained unmoved, saying he would make the passage of gun-control legislation a priority in the fall. In Philadelphia, as of 11:59 p.m. Sunday, the death toll stood at 203 for the year.

House Majority Leader Bill DeWeese (D., Greene), a gun-rights supporter, said he was willing to continue talks and to negotiate on several bills involving penalties and sentencing that "meet the threshold of compromise."

"The House members are focused on a package of legislation dealing with gun violence, particularly in cases in urban settings," he said.

Bills to increase penalties for gun crimes and legislation to toughen mandatory sentencing requirements could come up as early as this week, said DeWeese.

Last fall, during a special House session on gun violence, proposals to limit handgun purchases to one a month, require the reporting of lost and stolen firearms, and ban assault weapons all failed by 2-1 ratios.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/20070703_Guns_wont_stall_Pa__budget__black_caucus_leader_says.html

Thanks, Dave!

I did contact my local rep (Stan Saylor) with a request he initiate a bill that would prohibit pleading down or dropping certain charges, such as straw purchases. A person found guilty of a straw purchase would face mandatory jail time.
What we have to watch is that a gift purchase (for a relative or something of that nature...totally above board) isn't misconstrued or that the LE's don't abuse that limited authority we citizens grant them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070709/ap_on_re_us/pennsylvania_shutdown_22

By MARC LEVY and MARK SCOLFORO, Associated Press Writers

HARRISBURG, Pa. - Gov. Ed Rendell late Sunday ordered a range of state government services shut down and placed about a third of the state work force on indefinite unpaid furlough after frantic last-minute negotiations failed to break a budget stalemate.

A judge, however, ordered that the state's five slots parlors remain open, at least temporarily.

Rendell, appearing outside his Capitol office, said the shutdown would go forward but added that he was optimistic that he and legislators could come to an agreement within a day.

"Let me say to our hardworking and dedicated state employees, I'm sorry we're here. We worked as hard as we could today to get this done," Rendell said. But, he said, negotiations and serious consideration of his priorities, which he maintains must be passed along with a state spending plan, began too late.

"I sincerely hope that this will be a one-day furlough and I have reason for optimism," he said, but declined to discuss remaining areas of disagreement.

A partisan battle of wills between the Democratic governor and the Republicans who control the Senate has created a deadlock lasting eight days into the new fiscal year. With Rendell's order, 24,000 state workers not deemed critical to health and safety were furloughed without pay Monday.

Pennsylvanians will no longer be able to take driver's license tests and state-run museums will be shuttered. Highway maintenance and a range of permitting and licensing functions will be stopped or severely curtailed, and the lights illuminating the Capitol's dome were to be turned off.

A Commonwealth Court judge, however, halted the closure of slots parlors at least until a Tuesday hearing, said Doug Harbach, spokesman for the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board. State Revenue Department workers who monitor the casinos' computers were among those ordered furloughed.

Critical services — such as health care for the poor, state police patrols and prisons — will be maintained. About 52,000 state workers will remain on the job and be paid on time.

(more text on the linked page)

Looks like Pennsylvanians are going to be on the rocks real soon. I'm glad the legislators haven't backed down to the demands of the "Special-Interest groups". But for sure, Gov. Rendell is going to catch some big hell over this. I hope he knows how to tell the public just exactly who is responsible for this mess.

I hope he knows how to tell the public just exactly who is responsible for this mess.

Fast Eddie is a smooth cat. He'll know just how to tell it so it sounds like sunshine and kittens in a bottle.

Won't be true. But it'll sound good.

Oh noes. Government might shut down. The horror.

Every time some group pulls that stunt, it backfires. This is because for 98% of the people, The Government does not perform a function they need on a daily basis.

Mike

Every time some group pulls that stunt, it backfires. This is because for 98% of the people, The Government does not perform a function they need on a daily basis.



Really?

You dont own a car or drive on the road at all??? I seem to need that government built and funded highway every darn day.

^^^^

Come to Pennsylvania, a.k.a. Pots-hole-vania! You won't see any government employees working on roads around here! You may seem them standing, lounging about in trucks, or other pieces of equipment, but there is no work going on.

...........

Pennsyplinker if they are furloughed there will be no one to hold up that lane closed sign on the Skuhlkyl Distressway at rush hour.

LOL

You dont own a car or drive on the road at all??? I seem to need that government built and funded highway every darn day.

Ha. Try our roads. They would be better off not touching them, and go back to dirt.

Roads ain't on topic, either...

I guess not

Well, the furluogh is over...the budget has passed (of course, the budget wasn't the reasoning behind the impass) and the black caucus never made their threats come to pass.
Reckon this one is over...

My response when I saw this was to transliterate:

"If you won't let us violate your civil rights, we won't let the governor spend your tax dollars!"

Great. I accept.:neener: