Cz75 "sa"


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zinj
June 29, 2007, 01:49 PM
I was checking out CZ's site and noticed that the CZ75 "SA" variant is listed as having an ambidexterous safety:

http://cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=33

Is this true or is it an error in the specs?

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phorvick
June 29, 2007, 03:55 PM
True....and a nicer gun out of the box you will not find for anywhere near the price of the 75B SA. Even mediocore shooters look like Range Gods with this gun...superb value...superb gun.

Dobe
June 29, 2007, 04:35 PM
I've got one. I have enjoyed it. It shoots well, and the ergonomics are typical CZ design. The ergonomics are great.

Walt Sherrill
June 29, 2007, 04:57 PM
All of the CZs in .40 (except the 40P and the 40B) also have ambidextrous safeties. They do not have ambi-slide locks. Many have reversible mag releases.

(Only the CZ-85B/Combat models have ambidextrous slide releases; they do not have the reversible mag releases.) Some of the newer models have reversible mag releases.

It varies by specific model.

RM
June 29, 2007, 05:54 PM
I am not overly impressed with my CZ75 SA. First, I have occasional problems with stovepipes- as of yet unresolved. Second (and this may surprise you), the trigger sucks. Lots of takeup and the firing pin block mechanism makes for a lousy, uneven trigger pull. And third, perhaps I am spoiled with owning some nice guns, but the machining and finish of the CZ parts is very unremarkable. If you buy one, get rid of the plastic grips real frickin fast and buy the rubber CZ grips. And run, don't walk, to your gunsmith to get replacement sights.

budder
June 30, 2007, 09:22 AM
RM, the stovepiping problem can easily be fixed with a 16# extractor spring. I was able to remove the extractor, clean the channel, and replace the spring in 10 minutes by myself without having done it before. I could probably change it out in 2 minutes now if I had to.

DMK
June 30, 2007, 09:33 AM
And third, perhaps I am spoiled with owning some nice guns, but the machining and finish of the CZ parts is very unremarkable. If you buy one, get rid of the plastic grips real frickin fast and buy the rubber CZ grips. And run, don't walk, to your gunsmith to get replacement sights.Wow, you are kinda picky. The machining, finish and trigger is not bad for guns in it's price range.

The plastic grips do suck, but changing grips is very common with any pistol. 75% of my guns have aftermarket grips. Hogue makes a very nice and affordable rubber wrap around for the CZ-75.

I think the CZ75 sights are very good. Easy to see and durable.

phorvick
June 30, 2007, 09:34 AM
"I am not overly impressed with my CZ75 SA. First, I have occasional problems with stovepipes- as of yet unresolved. Second (and this may surprise you), the trigger sucks. Lots of takeup and the firing pin block mechanism makes for a lousy, uneven trigger pull."
---
Many CZ's are ammo sensitive. Mine does not want to reliably work with Blazer aluminum; others are fine.

Trigger "sucks"??? You must have a far different 75SA that I do. There is -0- takeup and the pull is crisp and light. The regular 75B, even in single action mode, does have more take up, but the normal 75B SA trigger has no such issue. If yours does, I bet that (a) it is defective from the factory or (b) has been adjusted out of spec. I have heard many things about the SA model, and yours is the first that comments on takeup and unevenness in a negative sense. Even granting that trigger sense is an individual thing, and one person's great trigger can be another's bane, everyone that tries my out of the box no frills gun comments on the terrific trigger. And, although my numbers are small (perhaps a dozen or so other SAs that I have tried), I have never seen long take up or uneven trigger pull. Of course, I have not tried yours thus....

Of course, YMMV.

Dobe
June 30, 2007, 11:15 AM
RM is right. The quality of CZ needs to take a step forward. They are wonderful handguns for the price. I love to shoot mine. Pehaps CZ has found a niche market - price. What makes CZ such an outstanding handgun is the design, not the workmanship.

RM
June 30, 2007, 01:09 PM
Admittedly, I am probably spoiled by owning Kimber, STI and Kahr pistols where the quality of workmanship is evident. The CZ is about a $400.+ gun. Personally, I would rather pay $550-600 and get quality parts and workmanship.
Budder, thanks for the tip. I just installed a Wolff "extra power" extractor spring. I have not shot the gun since it was installed.
All I shoot is Blazer aluminum ammo. Maybe that is part of the problem. Thanks, Phorvick.
Anyway, I have not given up yet on my CZ yet. I plan to keep it and shoot it for at least for a year. If I can get the CZ 75SA 100% reliable, I will feel alot better about it. I do like the design alot, and A+ on the CZ rubber grips.

Dobe
June 30, 2007, 01:26 PM
I have recently tried another CZ design. It the AR-24. I have decided not to recommend it for at least the first three months that I own it. After that time, I will have put enough rounds through it to justify a solid recommendation. So far, I'm happy with it. I'm looking for the CZ design, but with a little higher quality standards. Maybe this is it; perhaps it isn't. I realize one gun and one on-going test is not the complete picture.

Below is a link to my on-going range history.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=52&t=44700

Dobe
June 30, 2007, 02:05 PM
Sorry for the double post. Just have a devil of a time with the link.

wooderson
June 30, 2007, 02:46 PM
Personally, I would rather pay $550-600 and get quality parts and workmanship.

Which parts on the CZ aren't 'quality'? The grips?
What do you mean by 'workmanship' - are tool marks really that important to you, if they don't alter functioning?

My sole complaint with CZs are the lack of aftermarket sights on par with the 1911 (or M&P soon enough). The Mepro Tru Dots that came on my SP-01 are okay for what they are (tritium 3-dot), but the only option for a black rear sight is the ridiculously large CZ 'competition sight.' And there are no Novak/Heinie/etc. designs available - not enough room on the slide, I assume.

RM
June 30, 2007, 04:00 PM
I am not interested in an extended debate, but here is my response. Yes, tool marks make a gun look sloppy to me. They do not necessarily denote poor performance. The factory sights on my SA are not even on a par with a $300 gun, much less a $600 gun. Compare the barrel on a 75BSa to one from a Belgian Browning Hi Power. The quality of the machining and finish is far superior on the BHP barrel. If you enjoy your CZ the way it is, more power to ya.

Walt Sherrill
June 30, 2007, 04:21 PM
Complaining about the finish on the BARREL of a CZ may be a so-so ccmplaint, as they started carburizing the barrels a while back -- a type of surface hardening treatment, They don't look great but its supposed to make for a more durable barrel.

Sights aren't great, but they're no worse than SIG or Beretta sights, to me. And a little flourescent model paint on the dots makes a big difference.

As for those who are complaining about fit and finish: you knew about thinks like finish and machining tool marks when you bought the gun, didn't you? If not, why hot? Seems to me you're complaining about things that you could have avoided.

As for long trigger takeup. You must have a SA with the single-adjustment trigger. If so, buy a two-way adjustable from CZ; that allows adjustments for both take up and overtravel and overtravel can just about go away. The two-way trigger is metal, some of the one-ways are plastic.

Triggers on some of the newer CZs aren't great... but they seem to get better with use, and the guns seem to offer good quality for the price.

On the other hand, trigger jobs aren't that expensive.

I've only had a couple of guns that didn't get a trigger job, regardless of price: a very old T-series BHP (but I touched it up a bit), a SIG P-210-6, a S&W 52-2, an ASAI One Pro, a SIG 1911, and two Sphinxs. Nearly everything else has been given to a gunsmith for improvement. That included a couple of SIGs, several CZs, and four Berettas. My Glocks have even had parts swapped out.

If you want to spend the extra money and get the extra "finish" and features, move up to the CZ IPSC line. That'll give a semi-custom gun with a lot of extra hand work. But they're two-three times more expensive. You can see them on the CZ-USA website. Very nice guns.

Dobe
June 30, 2007, 08:44 PM
Walt,
It isn't just the finish and tool marks, with which I have a problem. The parts seem a little fragile. The slide stop for one. And before this goes onto a battle, I will tell you this will be my only post on this matter on this thread. I own a CZ. I have broken a slide stop, and I know others with similar problems. One only has to do a little research to confirm what I am saying. CZ supplies an extra slide stop with every Tactile Sport they ship out, or at least did. CZ also recommends replacing their slide stops every 1400-1500 rounds. What else can this mean, but that CZ is aware of their fragile slide stops? CZ magazines are notorious for being undersprung. There are many of us who like the CZ design, but may not be happy with the workmanship and the quality.

Walt Sherrill
July 1, 2007, 10:47 AM
I'm a moderator on the CZ Forum, and have participated there for years. I've had a BUNCH of CZs. I still have several -- along with two Sphinxs. I like them, but like other guns, too, so I'm not out to defend something out of some ill-place devotion to a brand.

We have 7000+ members on the CZ Forum, including many long-term owners. The number of broken slide stops mentioned/discussed there are in the "TENS", not "HUNDREDS" which makes me think its not a big deal. (Forums like that tend to attract the problem guns, as folks want to vent, etc.)

Several shooters on the forum have had multiple breaks in the same gun -- which has caused us to believe something in those guns were out of spec. In at least two of those cases, CZ replaced the gun.

As for 1400-1500 round slide-stop life: you're mixing apples and oranges...

CZ does NOT recommend replacing slide stops every 1400-1500 rounds on its standard guns like the 75B. The Tactical Sport, on the other hand, is a competition gun and they do a LOT of different things with it, including special mags, triggers, etc. Different gun, actually, based on the same general design, but bigger all over.

CZ mags aren't notorious for being undersprung -- but their other springs, like the extractor spring, were generally quickly replaced. Factory mags now are made by Mec-Gar and are good mags. The oldest CZ mags were as good as you get.

There was a period, about a year a go, when they had a run of bad springs -- trigger springs and mag springs, but again, complaints in the low number (probably under 100) on the CZ Forum. That seems to have been remedied.

Your claims, based on a glimmer of truth, are not representative of a much larger group's experience.

I've got a CZ-85 Combat with 10,000+ rounds through it and no slide stop breaks, no trigger spring breaks, and I replaced the extractor spring just out of concern -- although it had been shooting fine. I put a slightly heavier recoil spring in it -- a 16# version -- but later converted to a BHP 14# that fit the guide rod better than the Wolff Spring for the CZ (which is really made for the EAA Witness, which has a larger-diameter guide rod.)

Man With A Gun
July 1, 2007, 01:48 PM
I have another post on here about 2 CZ pistols I just picked up.

CZ 85 COMBAT 9mm and KADET .22 LR.

I am amazed at what you get for the bucks with CZ.

Both are deadly accurate out of the box and shoot ANYTHING.

I put some crap surplus 9mm and strange 22 stuff and both ate them with ease.

I love SIG, HP and H&K's but feel foolish for not looking at CZ's before this. Take a look. These are fine pistols.

skers69
July 1, 2007, 03:28 PM
My PCR turns one year old in August. I have over 5000 rounds through it with very little problems. I had a couple (3) of FTF that I believe was bad ammo. My ammo of choice is Speer Gold Dots 124 standard pressure. I can shoot a ragged hole out of the 10-9 rings all day long. Gun shoots much better than I do and I use it every day for H/sd.

briang2ad
July 1, 2007, 06:06 PM
and I own 4 CZs. And as Walt knows, I STILL like them. The design is excellent, and they are tough and reliable. Perfect - NO. I have a list of things "I'd change" if I were in charge, but it is an excellent, solid gun with excellent combat accuracy, decent sights, and a decent trigger if you look/handle what you buy. Also, the triggers are capable of excellence. They shoot almost EVERYTHING to the POA, and the overwhelming majority are very reliable. The manual safety model is also pretty easy to detail strip if you like to do that to smooth things out - I do. In fact the B model is VERY easy except for the trigger pin (unless you use a roll pin like EAA). I would second and third Walt on the slide stop issue. I have been reading that forum for a few years, and I find LITTLE evidence of a systematic problem with slide stops - I would NOT let that deter me from a CZ purchase. I find no real advantage in the SA model unless you REALLY want overstop adjustment and cannot stand DA pulls. I have felt a couple SA models and the SA pull was a bit worse than most DA/SA models I've seen - but I'm sure they clean up very nicely. I just like the option od DA/SA (which NO ONE has to use).

boogalou
July 1, 2007, 10:09 PM
Another thing to keep in mind on the CZ75 is the flexibility of the design. I have nothing against High Powers but can one be converted to a DA/SA action? It's pretty easy to convert a standard CZ75B to a SA action. Fit a SA trigger and remove the dis-connector. Polish up the trigger assembly, sear & hammer hooks and you're good to go. I own 8 of these guns and I've found nothing cheap regarding the internals.

They just about offer something for everyone and if that's not enough, you can try out the Tanfoglio clones with their different calibers and slide conversion units.

DMK
July 1, 2007, 10:26 PM
I don't know. Tool marks or other cosmetic imperfections never bothered me. I've never even looked for them. Of course, I only paid $300 for my CZ-75 NIB and $270 for my CZ-40B NIB. They both shoot reliably and accurately. That's all I care about.

I have recently tried another CZ design. It the AR-24.You do realize that the AR-24 is a copy of a CZ-75? It's not made by CZ (czub).

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